Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > General Sports > League/School Forums > Elder Panthers

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-13-17, 11:38 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-17-01
Posts: 5,334
PURPLE REIGN
Elder tuition hypothetical

I read on a different thread recently about how the skyrocketing high-school catholic tuition fee has dramatically outpaced the cost-of living over the past 20 years. What was a 3K tuition 20 years ago is now 11K+. This is unsustainable.

My first question is, why? Why is the cost to attend a school like Elder so expensive? Given all the generous alums and annual donations, is it truly justifiable? How do grade schools with similar numbers to Elder (Ignatius/Visi/etc) charge $3300 per student, yet Elder is $11K? Is it directly related to teacher salaries/retirement?

What would happen if Elder actually reduced its tuition to become the lowest priced private option in the city? Instead of 11K what if Elder was 8K? Would it see a significant increase in the number of students it attracted and would that be enough to make up the difference?

$11K X 800 = $8.8M

$8K X 1100 = $8.8M

Elder would need 75 more kids each year to break even. Probably asking a bit too much, but it would be nice to advertise: "Elder= most affordable option in Cincinnati". Thoughts?

Last edited by PURPLE REIGN; 11-13-17 at 12:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-13-17, 11:49 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 1,294
trey2k is an unknown quantity at this point
I don't know how you determine the migration numbers should you lower tuition to $8,000, but they should be utilizing some data people to figure that out. At a minimum, it's worth the analysis to see what is possible. Get creative. Maybe they are already doing that.

I agree that the tuition cannot continue to increase. Younger parents will not make the decision to pay more and more each year. They will find other options. They already are.

Last edited by trey2k; 11-13-17 at 12:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-13-17, 12:01 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I read on a different thread recently about how the skyrocketing high-school catholic tuition fee has dramatically outpaced the cost-of living over the past 20 years. What was a 3K tuition 20 years ago is now 11K+. This is unsustainable.

My first question is, why? Why is the cost to attend a school like Elder so expensive? Given all the generous alums and annual donations, is it truly justifiable? How do grade schools with similar numbers to Elder (Ignatius/Visi/etc) charge $3300 per student, yet Elder is $11K? Is it directly related to teacher salaries/retirement?

What would happen if Elder actually reduced its tuition to become the lowest priced option in the city? Instead of 11K what if Elder was 8K? Would it see a significant increase in the number of students it attracted and would that be enough to make up the difference?

$11K X 800 = $8.8M

$8K L X 1100 = $8.8M

Elder would need 75 more kids each year to decide to attend to break even. Probably asking a bit too much. Thoughts?
Competive salary and benefits for teachers has to be a big reason. Also, you're ignoring the generous Fin Aid for tuition.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-13-17, 12:04 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 12,673
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
I think part of the reason tuition has increased is because they could. As long as the numbers were there it made it okay to raise tuition because they're offering a premium service. Now the numbers are starting to fall off and the schools I'm sure are realizing they're pricing themselves out of the market, the tuition should drop, but it's a matter of how much and when.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-13-17, 12:07 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-17-01
Posts: 5,334
PURPLE REIGN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Competive salary and benefits for teachers has to be a big reason. Also, you're ignoring the generous Fin Aid for tuition.
I understand not every kid is paying $11K just like not every kid would be paying $8K.

Just trying to ask, if the the tuition went down significantly, would the number of students increase significantly.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-13-17, 12:09 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-05-02
Location: The Pit Elder High School
Posts: 9,337
EHS 2001 is on a distinguished road
I saw this on Twitter last night and thought it was interesting in light of discussions like this:
Quote:
Adam Shapiro of Fox rptng Hatch proposing plan allowing parents to deduction private school tuition if their children attend a private religious school. Tuition payment reclassified as a charitable contribution.
https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/stat...30031857627138
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-13-17, 12:11 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-21-15
Posts: 1,294
trey2k is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I understand not every kid is paying $11K just like not every kid would be paying $8K.

Just trying to ask, if the the tuition went down significantly, would the number of students increase significantly.
I think it would.

It would decrease the number of Elder families looking elsewhere, and I think it would finally get some eastside families to at least come take a look.

$3-5k difference, I think, would be significant to change behaviors.

Economically, is it prudent....that I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-13-17, 01:18 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHS 2001 View Post
I saw this on Twitter last night and thought it was interesting in light of discussions like this:

https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/stat...30031857627138
How can you get a write off for a donation to an entity that's tax exempt?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-13-17, 03:19 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-20-08
Posts: 2,829
Purplemojo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
How can you get a write off for a donation to an entity that's tax exempt?
Churches are tax exempt and donations are tax deductible. How could you not know this?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-13-17, 03:28 PM
AABottom AABottom is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 08-25-05
Posts: 85
AABottom
If they keep the $24k standard deduction in the new tax plan, unless you have multiple children attending a Catholic high schools, it likely wouldn't materially affect the taxes a family pays. It would help some families, but I doubt that would be a huge boon to enrollment.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-13-17, 03:57 PM
beeman beeman is online now
All Region
 
Join Date: 06-29-11
Posts: 318
beeman is on a distinguished road
If Elder (or any school) were to increase their enrollment from 800 students to 1100, what additional expenses would be incurred as a result of those additional 300 students?

Averaged out per each grade, that's an average of 75 more students a grade. Would that additional 75 students require the school to hire 2 more teachers per grade in order to add two more classes to keep the class sizes down? If so, what would the grand total be as a result of adding the salary of 8 additional teachers?

Bottom line, the school could be bringing in more students due to the lower tuition, but could it survive adding a half million bucks in expense?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-13-17, 06:34 PM
Panthers&Vols Panthers&Vols is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 09-18-02
Location: Montgomery
Posts: 1,166
Panthers&Vols
I recall talking to Tom Otten a week or so after he retired, and he stated that one of his goals is that within the next 10 years is for Elder to be tuition free. Dont know if thats feasible, how much $ does Elder have? Endowments, donations?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-13-17, 06:46 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-20-08
Posts: 2,829
Purplemojo is on a distinguished road
DePaul Christo Rey is getting to be very successful with their innovative model.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-13-17, 06:53 PM
Fair&Balanced Fair&Balanced is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-06-12
Posts: 373
Fair&Balanced is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers&Vols View Post
I recall talking to Tom Otten a week or so after he retired, and he stated that one of his goals is that within the next 10 years is for Elder to be tuition free. Dont know if thats feasible, how much $ does Elder have? Endowments, donations?
I heard this the other day from a reliable source. I was not happy about it. LaSalle keeps taking loans from Elder's and X's endowments, with no way to pay them back. No way Otten's goal will happen. Apparently, the archdiocese is making that happen. X won't be hurt nearly as much, but Elder would eventually unless enrollment increases to enlarge the alumni base for future contributions.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-13-17, 08:00 PM
ELDERfbfan ELDERfbfan is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 08-22-13
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 355
ELDERfbfan is on a distinguished road
Lower tuition and clean up Price Hill any way possible.... Talked to some of my wife's friends about where they would send their boys to high school (both dads are Elder alum) and they were more concerned about the crime (or perceived crime) in price hill vs areas around other GCL schools than they were about tuition. I would like to think the dads would have the final say in where they go but the old saying goes "happy wife, happy life"

For myself I would send my boys to Elder regardless of tuition or however bad PH gets.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-13-17, 09:09 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced View Post
I heard this the other day from a reliable source. I was not happy about it. LaSalle keeps taking loans from Elder's and X's endowments, with no way to pay them back. No way Otten's goal will happen. Apparently, the archdiocese is making that happen. X won't be hurt nearly as much, but Elder would eventually unless enrollment increases to enlarge the alumni base for future contributions.
Sounds like the Socialist Diocese at work. Useless scumbags. I sent the Diocese an email flat out asking if it was true, and if so, I told them it was a dishonest and corrupt practice.

Last edited by Descartes; 11-13-17 at 09:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-13-17, 09:10 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELDERfbfan View Post
Lower tuition and clean up Price Hill any way possible.... Talked to some of my wife's friends about where they would send their boys to high school (both dads are Elder alum) and they were more concerned about the crime (or perceived crime) in price hill vs areas around other GCL schools than they were about tuition. I would like to think the dads would have the final say in where they go but the old saying goes "happy wife, happy life"

For myself I would send my boys to Elder regardless of tuition or however bad PH gets.
It's not that bad. Plus, it's not like the kids have to live in PH. Those same parents wouldn't have any issue sending their kid to UC, in a worse area, where students have been more frequently attacked.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-13-17, 09:39 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Instead of letting the greedy, dirtbags at the Diocese touch our $, couldn't we donate it directly to the family in need? Like as a sponsor?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-13-17, 10:02 PM
IKS IKS is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 05-20-13
Posts: 79
IKS is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced View Post
I heard this the other day from a reliable source. I was not happy about it. LaSalle keeps taking loans from Elder's and X's endowments, with no way to pay them back. No way Otten's goal will happen. Apparently, the archdiocese is making that happen. X won't be hurt nearly as much, but Elder would eventually unless enrollment increases to enlarge the alumni base for future contributions.
I am sure X is not a school owned or operated by the Archdiocese. How could LaSalle get loans from their endowments?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-13-17, 10:06 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 08-13-08
Posts: 1,990
Vincent and Regina is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post

My first question is, why? Why is the cost to attend a school like Elder so expensive? Given all the generous alums and annual donations, is it truly justifiable? How do grade schools with similar numbers to Elder (Ignatius/Visi/etc) charge $3300 per student, yet Elder is $11K? Is it directly related to teacher salaries/retirement?
I am no expert but the difference between Ignatius, Visi and the other is that those schools have a church. At that church on Sunday they take a collection. From what I have heard 50-60% of that collection goes to running the school. Elder doesn't have that Sunday Collection. Back in the day (20 years ago) The parish would give $100 to a kids HS Tuition. Not a lot, but something. We have found the difference.

The other problem I see with adding more student that adds more cost. If you have 800 kids you have 800 desk. If you have 1100 you need 1100 desk. This goes on for everything. We can find a happy balance, but I am not smart enough to know that knowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-13-17, 10:18 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 08-13-08
Posts: 1,990
Vincent and Regina is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELDERfbfan View Post
Lower tuition and clean up Price Hill any way possible.... Talked to some of my wife's friends about where they would send their boys to high school (both dads are Elder alum) and they were more concerned about the crime (or perceived crime) in price hill vs areas around other GCL schools than they were about tuition. I would like to think the dads would have the final say in where they go but the old saying goes "happy wife, happy life"

For myself I would send my boys to Elder regardless of tuition or however bad PH gets.
My boys are 3. My wife and I live over in NKY and had a few discussion about where the boys will go to HS. Campbell County is a great HS and FREE. Bishop Brossart is a good school, but small and the tuition is half that of Elder and is located in safe Alexandria. Elder is $11,000 a good school and in a bad neighborhood, but with many opportunities. I hate to admit it, but Safety, Opportunity, and Cost all factor into our decision. Elder is winning some and Brossart and Campbell County are winning some. I still have ten years or so to decide.

I have lived in KY for 7 years now. I haven't missed an Elder game in that time. I must say between December and July, I don't spend a lot of time in Price Hill, but every August when I go back, I see Price Hill has gone down a little. Last year for the X game, I got the game a little late and had to park on Harris. I was afraid my car wasn't going to be there when I got back. I park on Suire and that street is in great shape. Price Hill has good parts and bad parts. But the folks who send their Sons and Daughters to Elder and Seton have to send their kids through the bad parts.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-13-17, 10:27 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
My boys are 3. My wife and I live over in NKY and had a few discussion about where the boys will go to HS. Campbell County is a great HS and FREE. Bishop Brossart is a good school, but small and the tuition is half that of Elder and is located in safe Alexandria. Elder is $11,000 a good school and in a bad neighborhood, but with many opportunities. I hate to admit it, but Safety, Opportunity, and Cost all factor into our decision. Elder is winning some and Brossart and Campbell County are winning some. I still have ten years or so to decide.

I have lived in KY for 7 years now. I haven't missed an Elder game in that time. I must say between December and July, I don't spend a lot of time in Price Hill, but every August when I go back, I see Price Hill has gone down a little. Last year for the X game, I got the game a little late and had to park on Harris. I was afraid my car wasn't going to be there when I got back. I park on Suire and that street is in great shape. Price Hill has good parts and bad parts. But the folks who send their Sons and Daughters to Elder and Seton have to send their kids through the bad parts.
How often are students at school during the night? It's totally overblown, it's not like they're actually living in Price Hill. And if you don't send your kids to Elder, you should stop going to games. No need for fair-weather alumni. If you live in the Tri-State and don't send you're son to Elder, it's a b1tch move. And that goes for everyone, no matter if your relative is one of our most famous Alumni (hint, hint).

And Campbell County is a "great" school? It's not even ranked in the Top 10 in one of the dumbest states in the country.

Last edited by Descartes; 11-13-17 at 10:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-13-17, 11:10 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 03-14-17
Posts: 2,169
Taco MacArthur has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Mojo is gonna lose his mind when he finds this thread lol

Pboy, depending on what the kids do they could be there during the night often. Especially during the winter when it's dark by 6. Not every day, no but still. I remember being walking to my car on Academy at night plenty. But I don't agree with V&R that it gets worse and worse. It's getting better. Maybe not directly around the school yet but areas of it are and that will, hopefully, spread. But until it really starts to spread out from the Incline District, it's going to have that negative connotation. Heck, from around my time there was an Elder student shot outside the school and another shooting, possibly a homicide I can't remember exactly, at the Walgreens just down the street. And that wasn't that long ago.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-13-17, 11:27 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Mojo is gonna lose his mind when he finds this thread lol

Pboy, depending on what the kids do they could be there during the night often. Especially during the winter when it's dark by 6. Not every day, no but still. I remember being walking to my car on Academy at night plenty. But I don't agree with V&R that it gets worse and worse. It's getting better. Maybe not directly around the school yet but areas of it are and that will, hopefully, spread. But until it really starts to spread out from the Incline District, it's going to have that negative connotation. Heck, from around my time there was an Elder student shot outside the school and another shooting, possibly a homicide I can't remember exactly, at the Walgreens just down the street. And that wasn't that long ago.
Yeah, but they're not there at midnight or in the early AM. And the area around Elder isn't that bad. It's not great, but you're in no real danger during normal hours.

And who cares about Mojo. If this practice is really true, I'd call the ArchBishop of thief right to his face. Stealing $ from Elder's Endowment to help support a rival the school that has: 1) f'd up their finances on their own accord and 2) Has Admin and faculty that have publicly disrespected Elder.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-13-17, 11:35 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-20-08
Posts: 2,829
Purplemojo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
My boys are 3. My wife and I live over in NKY and had a few discussion about where the boys will go to HS. Campbell County is a great HS and FREE. Bishop Brossart is a good school, but small and the tuition is half that of Elder and is located in safe Alexandria. Elder is $11,000 a good school and in a bad neighborhood, but with many opportunities. I hate to admit it, but Safety, Opportunity, and Cost all factor into our decision. Elder is winning some and Brossart and Campbell County are winning some. I still have ten years or so to decide.

I have lived in KY for 7 years now. I haven't missed an Elder game in that time. I must say between December and July, I don't spend a lot of time in Price Hill, but every August when I go back, I see Price Hill has gone down a little. Last year for the X game, I got the game a little late and had to park on Harris. I was afraid my car wasn't going to be there when I got back. I park on Suire and that street is in great shape. Price Hill has good parts and bad parts. But the folks who send their Sons and Daughters to Elder and Seton have to send their kids through the bad parts.
Please do us all a favor, stay in KY. We do not need morons or cowards at Elder. I have sent two sons to Elder and three Daughters to Seton without a single incident. But then again, my kids were not pasty-faced shivering twits.

How's that Taco?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-13-17, 11:38 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-20-08
Posts: 2,829
Purplemojo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Stealing $ from Elder's Endowment to help support a rival the school that has: 1) f'd up their finances on their own accord and 2) Has Admin and faculty that have publicly disrespected Elder.
Yeah and Price Hill Chili has a secret agenda to undermine Elder by hiding LaSalle memorabilia around its walls in order to send a subliminal message to betray Elder and to send your sons to LaSalle.

What a wack-job.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-13-17, 11:42 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Trey=YRoevWadeisgood
Posts: 4,550
Descartes is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
Yeah and Price Hill Chili has a secret agenda to undermine Elder by hiding LaSalle memorabilia around its walls in order to send a subliminal message to betray Elder and to send your sons to LaSalle.

What a wack-job.
We'll see. I sent an email to the Diocese asking if this was true. Hopefully, it's not. If it is, then you can add thievery to the laundry list of corrupt actions the Diocese has taken part in.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-14-17, 12:02 AM
Fair&Balanced Fair&Balanced is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-06-12
Posts: 373
Fair&Balanced is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by IKS View Post
I am sure X is not a school owned or operated by the Archdiocese. How could LaSalle get loans from their endowments?
The loans are happening. LaSalle isn't an archdiocesan school either. I was told the Archdiocese can and does influence X to do for the "greater good". I wouldn't think this is a problem for X. The problem is: Elder's endowment is lending money to LaSalle without them having a way to pay it back. LaSalle continues to do the same things they have done for years as if they have a limitless budget. Their promises, the nonsense from their blowhards and marketing in traditional Elder areas. Ironic isn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-14-17, 12:09 AM
Panthers&Vols Panthers&Vols is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 09-18-02
Location: Montgomery
Posts: 1,166
Panthers&Vols
Why should/does the archdiocese have their hands in Elders pocket? That seems odd that they would have the ability to take money from Elder for any reason.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-14-17, 12:10 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 03-14-17
Posts: 2,169
Taco MacArthur has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
Please do us all a favor, stay in KY. We do not need morons or cowards at Elder. I have sent two sons to Elder and three Daughters to Seton without a single incident. But then again, my kids were not pasty-faced shivering twits.

How's that Taco?
I think you're a hypocritical piece of crap. You constantly post high and mighty about how Christian/Catholic values are important to you and then come in here with this type of post, another talking down to Pboy for not fully understanding tax exempt status and charitable donations in the form of tuition. You insult anyone who doesn't agree with you, but the second someone wants to bring up religion, God or Jesus you act like you're an alter boy. You immediately insult anyone on Yappi that doesn't agree with you.

Matthew 6:1-34. You're the type of person Matthew is talking about, not talking to.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GCL South (X, Elder, Moeller, LaSalle) 2017 Unofficial Thread Pope Francis 1 Football 488 11-11-17 07:54 AM
Official Thread Elder vs. Winton Woods warriorblue Football 308 10-31-17 06:17 AM
Challenge Game (9/16): Elder (3-0) at St Edward (2-0) Yappi Football 5 09-12-17 11:20 AM
Kettering Fairmont D-1 District Rankings (Off-Season #3) McClearn7 Wrestling 21 08-24-17 02:25 AM
Elder Summer Wrestling Camp JasonRoush Wrestling 4 06-04-17 08:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz