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  #31  
Old 10-26-17, 03:21 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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He didn't fare too well against Wall, although they won
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  #32  
Old 10-26-17, 03:37 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Who is Lonzo Ball?
Idk I’ve heard of LoGoat
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  #33  
Old 10-27-17, 07:26 AM
Zezzo! Zezzo! is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
He didn't fare too well against Wall, although they won
Wall didn't have a great game either and he's the superstar. I'd say Ball had a solid overall game just didn't score well but didn't have to. 6pts. 10rbs. 8assts.. He had a better impact on the game than Wall.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-17, 01:53 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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In the words of Marty Brennaman...."How we lookin...not good."

Lonzo through his first 8 games...

9.1 PPG
7 RPG
7 APG
Now on the surface, that doesn't look awful, but he's playing 33 minutes per game. Take out his one 29 point outburst, and his average is 6 points per game.
he's shooting 32% from the field, not 3's, overall, and 27% from 3 point land.

Needless to say it's not going well.
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  #35  
Old 11-05-17, 11:16 AM
Chop Stix Chop Stix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
In the words of Marty Brennaman...."How we lookin...not good."

Lonzo through his first 8 games...

9.1 PPG
7 RPG
7 APG
Now on the surface, that doesn't look awful, but he's playing 33 minutes per game. Take out his one 29 point outburst, and his average is 6 points per game.
he's shooting 32% from the field, not 3's, overall, and 27% from 3 point land.

Needless to say it's not going well.
Jason Kidd had nearly identical #s through his first 8 NBA games.

Lonzo will be fine.
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  #36  
Old 11-05-17, 07:30 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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The sample size is small, but IMO he's already starting to prove he'll likely be a poor shooter at this level if he doesn't change his awful shot mechanics. That's the one major flaw standing between who he is and who so many seem to think he can be as a player in a few years.
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  #37  
Old 11-06-17, 09:22 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Chop Stix View Post
Jason Kidd had nearly identical #s through his first 8 NBA games.

Lonzo will be fine.
If I recall, Jason Kidd played at a lot faster pace than this kid. Lonzo just plays like it's a pickup game at the park. To me it's funny because so many Lakers fans and front office just look silly, including Magic Johnson. Lonzo's a dime a dozen player. Good high school and college player, but the NBA is a new level. There will be better players than him coming in the league as the years come and he can't just rest on his Daddy's rants. What a fool.
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  #38  
Old 11-06-17, 01:50 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Jason Kidd was also 3 years older than Lonzo their first year in the league.
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  #39  
Old 11-06-17, 01:56 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Jason Kidd was also 3 years older than Lonzo their first year in the league.
Point taken, but relatively, Ball is playing with and against kids his age as well. That's the issue with one and dones. The NBA has a bunch of non-polished basketball players. Some get better, many don't and a new crop is brought in year after year.

Ball had flaws coming into the NBA, hard to work on them during the season.
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  #40  
Old 11-06-17, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chop Stix View Post
Jason Kidd had nearly identical #s through his first 8 NBA games.

Lonzo will be fine.
What does that have to do with anything
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  #41  
Old 11-06-17, 02:31 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Point taken, but relatively, Ball is playing with and against kids his age as well.
This is simply not true. The Lakers entire roster average age is 24.3 years old. Lonzo Ball is 20.03 years old. The average age of the Lakers other starters is 24.36. The only one who is his age is Ingram, everyone else is at 3 years or older. 3 years is a significant difference in the NBA, that's why you see fewer guys being taken in the draft that are seniors vs. freshmen and sophomores.

This is especially untrue when talking about who he has played against. Lonzo and the Lakers have played against Patrick Beverly (29.32 years old), Eric Bledsoe (27.91), Jrue Holiday (27.40), John Wall (27.17), Kyle Lowry (31.62), Ricky Rubio (27.04), Reggie Jackson (27.56), Damian Lillard (27.31), D'Angelo Russell (21.70) and Mike Conley (30.07). The average age of opposing PGs has been 27.71, aka their prime years.
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  #42  
Old 11-06-17, 03:16 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
This is simply not true. The Lakers entire roster average age is 24.3 years old. Lonzo Ball is 20.03 years old. The average age of the Lakers other starters is 24.36. The only one who is his age is Ingram, everyone else is at 3 years or older. 3 years is a significant difference in the NBA, that's why you see fewer guys being taken in the draft that are seniors vs. freshmen and sophomores.

This is especially untrue when talking about who he has played against. Lonzo and the Lakers have played against Patrick Beverly (29.32 years old), Eric Bledsoe (27.91), Jrue Holiday (27.40), John Wall (27.17), Kyle Lowry (31.62), Ricky Rubio (27.04), Reggie Jackson (27.56), Damian Lillard (27.31), D'Angelo Russell (21.70) and Mike Conley (30.07). The average age of opposing PGs has been 27.71, aka their prime years.
Ok, but don't you think Jason Kidd played against older players as well, maybe guys 27-32 instead of 22-27?? My point is the NBA has gotten significantly younger over the last generation.

So now the main question...should he have stayed in college a year or two and developed his game?
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  #43  
Old 11-06-17, 03:36 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
This is simply not true. The Lakers entire roster average age is 24.3 years old. Lonzo Ball is 20.03 years old. The average age of the Lakers other starters is 24.36. The only one who is his age is Ingram, everyone else is at 3 years or older. 3 years is a significant difference in the NBA, that's why you see fewer guys being taken in the draft that are seniors vs. freshmen and sophomores.

This is especially untrue when talking about who he has played against. Lonzo and the Lakers have played against Patrick Beverly (29.32 years old), Eric Bledsoe (27.91), Jrue Holiday (27.40), John Wall (27.17), Kyle Lowry (31.62), Ricky Rubio (27.04), Reggie Jackson (27.56), Damian Lillard (27.31), D'Angelo Russell (21.70) and Mike Conley (30.07). The average age of opposing PGs has been 27.71, aka their prime years.
????

If the NBA thought it was a significant difference wouldn't they take more seniors not less?????

This makes no sense ... being older is a significant advantage, so they are taking younger players ... Your logic escapes me ... as usual!
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  #44  
Old 11-06-17, 03:49 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ok, but don't you think Jason Kidd played against older players as well, maybe guys 27-32 instead of 22-27?? My point is the NBA has gotten significantly younger over the last generation.

So now the main question...should he have stayed in college a year or two and developed his game?
Absolutely not. You stay in college to improve your draft status and showcase your potential. Ball went #2 in the draft. Players get better by playing better competition. And the Lakers are going to give him plenty of playing time to do that without the distraction of pretending to be a full time college student.
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  #45  
Old 11-06-17, 04:11 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ok, but don't you think Jason Kidd played against older players as well, maybe guys 27-32 instead of 22-27?? My point is the NBA has gotten significantly younger over the last generation.

So now the main question...should he have stayed in college a year or two and developed his game?
No, your point was Lonzo is playing with and against guys his own age. He isn't. Both Lonzo and Jason Kidd play(ed) against guys who are 22-32. The NBA has not gotten significantly younger. The average age last year was 26.6 years old, which is higher than the average age during the 1986-87 season and on par with the 85-86, 87-88, 88-89, 89-90, 90-91 seasons. In the 23 years since Jason Kidd's rookie year, the average age of NBA players has dropped 0.83 years.

e_p has already handled the second part of your post.
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  #46  
Old 11-06-17, 04:15 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
Your logic escapes me ... as usual!
Well I'm not surprised joe. You think players progress the same when they have better competition, coaching, no classes, no homework, better training facilities, better nutritional resources, etc? Getting 3 years of superior everything accelerates progress.
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  #47  
Old 11-06-17, 04:40 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
No, your point was Lonzo is playing with and against guys his own age. He isn't. Both Lonzo and Jason Kidd play(ed) against guys who are 22-32. The NBA has not gotten significantly younger. The average age last year was 26.6 years old, which is higher than the average age during the 1986-87 season and on par with the 85-86, 87-88, 88-89, 89-90, 90-91 seasons. In the 23 years since Jason Kidd's rookie year, the average age of NBA players has dropped 0.83 years.

e_p has already handled the second part of your post.
And there is nothing comparing Lonzo Ball to Jason Kidd. Other than their last names have 4 letters. Kidd was a competitor, could push the ball and pass. Lonzo is a product of his father's marketing campaign, and so many suckers took the bait.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-17, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Well I'm not surprised joe. You think players progress the same when they have better competition, coaching, no classes, no homework, better training facilities, better nutritional resources, etc? Getting 3 years of superior everything accelerates progress.
So we should send the really good players straight to the NBA ... skip HS, MS ... Straight from elementary to the NBA ... Obviously they would get better coaching, better competition, etc ... the point is some players get better by dominating people your own age ... coming into the NBA with or closer to the skills needed could help ... both the player and the team ... the NBA is not the place to learn some of the things you learn in college .... teams would know what they are getting ... yea, there are some players ready to play at a young age ... more are not ... for some competing against players who are vastly superior to them does not accelerates their progress, it can even crush their confidence ... Anthony Bennett is my example ... his progress was not accelerated by coming out early.
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  #49  
Old 11-06-17, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
So we should send the really good players straight to the NBA ... skip HS, MS ... Straight from elementary to the NBA ... Obviously they would get better coaching, better competition, etc ... the point is some players get better by dominating people your own age ... coming into the NBA with or closer to the skills needed could help ... both the player and the team ... the NBA is not the place to learn some of the things you learn in college .... teams would know what they are getting ... yea, there are some players ready to play at a young age ... more are not ... for some competing against players who are vastly superior to them does not accelerates their progress, it can even crush their confidence ... Anthony Bennett is my example ... his progress was not accelerated by coming out early.
Okay Joe. I think it might be time for your nap.

Would your advice been for Bennett and Ball to stay in school and forgo being drafted 1 and 2 in the draft?
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  #50  
Old 11-06-17, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Okay Joe. I think it might be time for your nap.

Would your advice been for Bennett and Ball to stay in school and forgo being drafted 1 and 2 in the draft?
Once again, you don't even understand the point ... just saying everybody would be better off in the NBA because better coaching, competition, ect is silly ... just like going from elementary to NBA is silly ... obviously they wouldn't be physically or mentally ready for the NBA ... well neither are some college freshmen ... that was the point.

Just because you are going to be drafted high also doesn't mean it is the best thing for you ... if you are not ready for the NBA and end up getting let go in a few years because you were not ready ... are you really better off? ... just ask Bennett who is out of the NBA by 24 ... would he have better off waiting until he was ready and then having a longer career? Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

I will admit for many players ... going to the NBA early is a good thing ... just not all. Just look at the NFL ... QBs with more college experience succeed more than ones with less experience ... so are they better off going early to the NFL?
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  #51  
Old 11-06-17, 10:37 PM
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Bennett likely wouldn’t have benefited from more time in college, he just would have reduced his income. He made $16m in 4 years. Only a fool would advise him to expose his weaknesses in college for another year or so.
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  #52  
Old 11-06-17, 11:45 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Lavar Ball starting up on the coaches:

Quote:
In an interview with Bleacher Report, LaVar wasn’t pleased with how Lonzo has been sitting for extended periods of the fourth quarter before entering the game. According to LaVar, Lonzo should be playing the entire fourth quarter if the Lakers want to win. He said after Lonzo played 29 minutes in a win over the Nets:

“Let him play the whole fourth quarter and bet you’ll always win. He’ll get into a better flow. The in and out, sitting out six to 10 minutes? He’s not going to take no shots because he’s not in the flow. He don’t want to hurt the team by shooting.”
Read more:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/11/lava...th-quarter-nba
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  #53  
Old 11-07-17, 07:05 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
So we should send the really good players straight to the NBA ... skip HS, MS ... Straight from elementary to the NBA ... Obviously they would get better coaching, better competition, etc ... the point is some players get better by dominating people your own age ... coming into the NBA with or closer to the skills needed could help ... both the player and the team ... the NBA is not the place to learn some of the things you learn in college .... teams would know what they are getting ... yea, there are some players ready to play at a young age ... more are not ... for some competing against players who are vastly superior to them does not accelerates their progress, it can even crush their confidence ... Anthony Bennett is my example ... his progress was not accelerated by coming out early.
Outside the end of their senior year, are high school kids ready for the physicality of the NBA? Middle schoolers? Elementary kids? No? Okay. Post senior year high schoolers and post college freshmen? Clearly. Most of them play. If they weren't ready and couldn't handle it, they wouldn't play. Glad we could clear up that moronic take of yours.

Anthony Bennett's biggest issue was being a fat, lazy slob. He showed up to training camp 15 lbs overweight, he couldn't even get through scrimmages and never even attempted to get his conditioning up to even low NBA level. Had he not been a fat, lazy slob and attempted to be in NBA shape, he could have been a solid stretch 4. He had the shooting stroke and some solid moves. Staying in college would have done nothing. If making $4+ million a year doesn't motivate you to get in shape, not being paid and having to go to classes for free certainly wouldn't have either.
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  #54  
Old 11-07-17, 07:06 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
And there is nothing comparing Lonzo Ball to Jason Kidd. Other than their last names have 4 letters. Kidd was a competitor, could push the ball and pass. Lonzo is a product of his father's marketing campaign, and so many suckers took the bait.
So in other words you haven't watched Lonzo Ball and don't know what you're talking about? I don't like Lonzo, and I dislike LaVar even more, but this is just an awful, uninformed opinion.
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  #55  
Old 11-07-17, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Bennett likely wouldn’t have benefited from more time in college, he just would have reduced his income. He made $16m in 4 years. Only a fool would advise him to expose his weaknesses in college for another year or so.
Also was a considerably weak draft class that year. Word wasn't out he was ask lazy either.
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  #56  
Old 11-07-17, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Outside the end of their senior year, are high school kids ready for the physicality of the NBA? Middle schoolers? Elementary kids? No? Okay. Post senior year high schoolers and post college freshmen? Clearly. Most of them play. If they weren't ready and couldn't handle it, they wouldn't play. Glad we could clear up that moronic take of yours.

Anthony Bennett's biggest issue was being a fat, lazy slob. He showed up to training camp 15 lbs overweight, he couldn't even get through scrimmages and never even attempted to get his conditioning up to even low NBA level. Had he not been a fat, lazy slob and attempted to be in NBA shape, he could have been a solid stretch 4. He had the shooting stroke and some solid moves. Staying in college would have done nothing. If making $4+ million a year doesn't motivate you to get in shape, not being paid and having to go to classes for free certainly wouldn't have either.
I am not sure I understand ... on one hand you say HS seniors and college freshmen are ready to play in the NBA ... on the other hand you make an excuse for Ball because of his age ... which is it????? Are college freshmen ready to play in the NBA or is Ball's struggles because he is only 20??????

As usual you are talking out of both sides of your ...
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  #57  
Old 11-07-17, 10:19 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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I am not sure I understand ... on one hand you say HS seniors and college freshmen are ready to play in the NBA ... on the other hand you make an excuse for Ball because of his age ... which is it????? Are college freshmen ready to play in the NBA or is Ball's struggles because he is only 20??????

As usual you are talking out of both sides of your ...
I haven't used Ball's age as an excuse. I simply pointed out 14Red was wrong when he said Ball was playing with and against players his own age. However, even if I did use Ball's age as an excuse, both can be true. He can be physically ready to play, as evidenced by his 7 assists and rebounds per game, while still learning the speed of pro ball, defensive assignments which LaVar (for Lonzo's whole life) and Steve Alford (for one year) have obviously ignored, among other things.

Seems you're suggesting only college freshmen struggle with adjusting to the NBA game. It takes every rookie a while to get used to the speed of the game, NBA defensive complexities, etc. Be it a 19 year old one and done or a 24 year old 5th year senior.

Last edited by Taco MacArthur; 11-07-17 at 10:30 AM..
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  #58  
Old 11-07-17, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I haven't used Ball's age as an excuse. I simply pointed out 14Red was wrong when he said Ball was playing with and against players his own age. However, even if I did use Ball's age as an excuse, both can be true. He can be physically ready to play, as evidenced by his 7 assists and rebounds per game, while still learning the speed of pro ball, defensive assignments which LaVar (for Lonzo's whole life) and Steve Alford (for one year) have obviously ignored, among other things.

Seems you're suggesting only college freshmen struggle with adjusting to the NBA game. It takes every rookie a while to get used to the speed of the game, NBA defensive complexities, etc. Be it a 19 year old one and done or a 24 year old 5th year senior.
I see what your saying and don't disagree completely ... but, what I am suggesting is rookie players would be more ready to play if they played longer in college ... that is probably why the top 20 all-time rookie scoring averages are all from players who came into the NBA prior to 2000 ... they are more ready to play ... better for the NBA ... having rookies learn the basics in the NBA is not good for the NBA ... if Lonzo ball stayed another year or two his star would be bigger and he would be more ready to play in his rookie year ... NBA teams would not be paying millions of dollars for players who are not developed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._single-season
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  #59  
Old 11-07-17, 01:17 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I tend to think it would be better for the NBA's product if they made draft entrants be 2-3 years removed from high school, but they've yet to show any real inclination to even seriously consider making kids go to college, the G-League (which they'd have to invest much more heavily in), or abroad for that period of time.
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  #60  
Old 11-07-17, 04:08 PM
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Ball's little bro just got busted for shoplifting in China with a UCLA teammate...seriously, can't make this stuff up.

Honestly, the Ball family is just a hollywood nightmare.
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