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  #4981  
Old 11-14-17, 11:34 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domi View Post
It's all okay guys. Rush says Roy Moore was a democrat when he was doing bad/weird things with little girls so republicans can still vote for him.
That's not what he said. What he was commenting on is how strange it was that when Moore was a registered democrat and doing this stuff no one seemed to care just like they didn't care when Senators Chris Dodd & Teddy Kennedy performed their famous sandwich assault on a waitress.
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  #4982  
Old 11-14-17, 11:35 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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What's going on in the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I am not victim blaming here and yes I'm calling them cowards because that's what they are. First off several of these "girls" were in their late teens/early 20's and if they didn't want to report this creep at the time of the assault how about within a few years? But waiting decades and coming out right before an election stinks IMO. How many other girls & young women were terrorized by this guy (assuming it's true) while these people sat there ringing their hands.



Look the last 30 years has seen a boon in the self empowerment of girls & women. Our culture emphasizes it at every opportunity. Well guess what with empowerment also comes responsibility. And in the case of "modern" women (post 1990) it is their responsibility to report this behavior when it occurs. This is not the 1950's when girls & women had a real reason to fear for their "reputations" if they made these kinds of charges.



Sorry but if a female friend or relative of mine was assaulted by a guy in this way I would be furious at the man and would want to string him up. But if I also found out that he had been doing it for years and the previous victims had not reported it then I would be almost as mad at them for enabling him to continue to prey on women by their silence. And that IMO IS NOT VICTIM BLAMING.

Sorry, but calling victims of sexual assault “cowards” is just despicable.

Kindly piss off.
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  #4983  
Old 11-14-17, 11:53 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Sorry, but calling victims of sexual assault “cowards” is just despicable.

Kindly piss off.
Oversimplify much. Unless the assaulter is very powerful and/or dangerous and poses a real threat to the lives or well being of the victim or the victims family then yes they are cowards for not reporting him. Again this is not the 1950's. Outside of deranged killers like Charles Manson or powerful senators like Ted Kennedy or a President like Bill Clinton what did these young women have to fear from Moore? When he was alleged to have committed the assaults Ray Moore was none of these things.

By not reporting the assaults when they occurred and waiting decades to publicize them these women are creating all sorts of problems for themselves and especially for others. I've already mentioned how future women suffer because the current victims didn't report the assault. But there's also the problem of how waiting decades to report the assaults blurs the line between assaults that really did happen and unhinged women making stuff up. So society swings widely between two extremes: either not believing the women at all and the creeps go free or believing that any man charged is guilty resulting in innocent men having their lives ruined.

And again i'm differentiating those women who were assaulted at a time when reporting such assaults could ruin the women's life and more modern times where society & law enforcement are far more sensitive and supportive to women who report sexual assault.
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  #4984  
Old 11-15-17, 12:00 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
And in the case of "modern" women (post 1990) it is their responsibility to report this behavior when it occurs.
The alleged assaults occurred in the 70's

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Unless the assaulter is very powerful
Would district attorney qualify as "very powerful" to a 14 year old?
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  #4985  
Old 11-15-17, 12:16 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
The alleged assaults occurred in the 70's



Would district attorney qualify as "very powerful" to a 14 year old?
And most of the alleged assaults are from the 1980's. But sure the most disturbing one to me is that Moore allegedly assaulted a 14 year old girl. The problem is that because the accusation is 40 years old it's also the charge that is the least credible.

As to how fearsome Moore was, all I know is that in the 1980's he was evidently banned from a local mall for bothering teenage girls. Doesn't seem like this guy struck fear in the hearts of the locals back then if a mall would ban him like they would an unruly teenager.

But my main point goes way beyond Ray Moore. There is nothing new about women coming out and accusing men of this stuff decades after it supposedly happened. As Cabe pointed out there is a lot of scientific evidence that sometimes these "memories" are outright delusions. And when decades pass before the charge is leveled how do you know what the truth is?

All I'm saying is that society has to demand more from victims of sexual assault. The time when such assaults were considered shameful and the victim ostracized are long gone. It is a persons civic duty to report these crimes when they occur just like they would any other crime.
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  #4986  
Old 11-15-17, 12:51 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
And most of the alleged assaults are from the 1980's.
To my knowledge, all of them were in the 70's. The 14 and 15 year old definitely were. Regardless, you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
And in the case of "modern" women (post 1990) it is their responsibility to report this behavior when it occurs.
You also said

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Unless the assaulter is very powerful
It seems to me the district attorney would qualify as very powerful to a 14-15 year old.
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  #4987  
Old 11-15-17, 03:38 AM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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Lol @ SWM
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  #4988  
Old 11-15-17, 06:57 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
To my knowledge, all of them were in the 70's. The 14 and 15 year old definitely were. Regardless, you said.
........
It's now been pointed out, he was a Democrat at the time of these allegations.....
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  #4989  
Old 11-15-17, 07:26 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Uranium One details by Shep Smith - Debunked

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/36...anium-one-deal
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  #4990  
Old 11-15-17, 07:31 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Fox viewers reaction (to facts)

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/he-...t-uranium-one/
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  #4991  
Old 11-15-17, 07:33 AM
nupanther nupanther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
It's now been pointed out, he was a Democrat at the time of these allegations.....
Don't forget- the southern Democrat of the 70s are republicans now. Do you honestly think George Wallace would be a Democrat today? Or his voting base?
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  #4992  
Old 11-15-17, 07:58 AM
beeman beeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
And most of the alleged assaults are from the 1980's. But sure the most disturbing one to me is that Moore allegedly assaulted a 14 year old girl. The problem is that because the accusation is 40 years old it's also the charge that is the least credible.

As to how fearsome Moore was, all I know is that in the 1980's he was evidently banned from a local mall for bothering teenage girls. Doesn't seem like this guy struck fear in the hearts of the locals back then if a mall would ban him like they would an unruly teenager.

But my main point goes way beyond Ray Moore. There is nothing new about women coming out and accusing men of this stuff decades after it supposedly happened. As Cabe pointed out there is a lot of scientific evidence that sometimes these "memories" are outright delusions. And when decades pass before the charge is leveled how do you know what the truth is?

All I'm saying is that society has to demand more from victims of sexual assault. The time when such assaults were considered shameful and the victim ostracized are long gone. It is a persons civic duty to report these crimes when they occur just like they would any other crime.
Until you can claim that you have been sexually assaulted...kindly keep your mouth shut trying to give lessons on what to do in the event of being assaulted. You really have no clue.
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  #4993  
Old 11-15-17, 07:59 AM
beeman beeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Oversimplify much. Unless the assaulter is very powerful and/or dangerous and poses a real threat to the lives or well being of the victim or the victims family then yes they are cowards for not reporting him. Again this is not the 1950's. Outside of deranged killers like Charles Manson or powerful senators like Ted Kennedy or a President like Bill Clinton what did these young women have to fear from Moore? When he was alleged to have committed the assaults Ray Moore was none of these things.
Again...you have no clue. What a jack-azz.
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  #4994  
Old 11-15-17, 08:48 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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I am sure a 14 YO reporting to Alabama authorities an allegation about an Alabama judge would go well. Congress is next...the rules/process/legal support/payments from treasury/NDA makes it impossible for a victim to win.
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  #4995  
Old 11-15-17, 08:55 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nupanther View Post
Don't forget- the southern Democrat of the 70s are republicans now. Do you honestly think George Wallace would be a Democrat today? Or his voting base?
Not completely true..... I grew up in the South in the 1960s and 1970s. While that is true in some cases, if you go look at people's voting records you would find that it would depend on the issue. Depending on the topic there were conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans. Most Southern Democrats were socially liberal and financially conservative. Nearly all of the ones that were socially AND fiscally conservative eventually became Republicans.

George Wallace was a Democrat until the day he died, he always said he was a segregationist and not a racist and there are people in Alabama that would agree (black and white). He eventually renounced segregation and in his last term as governor appointed a lot of black politicians to posts and even in his cabinet. He could have switched to the Republican Party at any time, but didn't. Although, he tended to vote Republican in national elections afterward because he hated Bill Clinton.
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  #4996  
Old 11-15-17, 09:15 AM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Latest poll has Moore +6. RCP average has him +3.
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  #4997  
Old 11-15-17, 09:23 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nupanther View Post
Don't forget- the southern Democrat of the 70s are republicans now. Do you honestly think George Wallace would be a Democrat today? Or his voting base?
And do you think John Kennedy or Harry Truman would be democrats today?
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  #4998  
Old 11-15-17, 09:37 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman View Post
Until you can claim that you have been sexually assaulted...kindly keep your mouth shut trying to give lessons on what to do in the event of being assaulted. You really have no clue.
Oh please, can't you see that YOU are the one channeling 1950's era morality? For crying out loud quit treating these victims like delicate flowers. In our society we expect victims to come forward and report crimes committed against them. How the hell else is law enforcement supposed to catch and imprison these scum bags? It is their civic duty to come forward ASAP. Do you think that in the 21st century sexual assault is somehow more debilitating then having a gun stuck in your face and being car jacked? Or people breaking into your house and ransacking it in front of you while they pistol whip your family? Hasn't the goal of the last 50 years been to STOP treating sexual assault as a special crime requiring special handling and treat it as a crime of VIOLENCE.

I get that back in the day when society often blamed the victims of sexual assault those victims had no obligation to report these crimes in the face of the abuse they often received at the hands of law enforcement and even their own friends & family. But those days are past. And while NEO is right that for most of Moore's cases the young women were operating in the bad old days why did they wait so LONG to report the dirty deeds. By early in this century women should have felt empowered to come forward and if they had then this creep wouldn't be on the verge of winning a senate seat.
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  #4999  
Old 11-15-17, 09:39 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
It seems to me the district attorney would qualify as very powerful to a 14-15 year old.
To be fair....I am not sure a 14-15 year old child really knows what a district attorney really is or does. Unless that 14-15 year old has been exposed to the legal process somehow.

Not picking a side in your guys' back & forth. I just remember when I was 14-15 I wouldn't have known what a district attorney did or was. And I grew up with a police detective as my father.
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  #5000  
Old 11-15-17, 09:42 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Latest poll has Moore +6. RCP average has him +3.
Isn't this a perfect example of how corrupting press bias can be? I totally get why people in Alabama would distrust ANYTHING coming out of the liberal media. If Moore is elected folks are going to crap all over the people of Alabama but the real culprits here beyond Moore and his sleazy behavior are the journalists who for so long have been taking sides to the point that now half the country doesn't believe a thing they say or print.
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  #5001  
Old 11-15-17, 09:46 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
To be fair....I am not sure a 14-15 year old child really knows what a district attorney really is or does. Unless that 14-15 year old has been exposed to the legal process somehow.

Not picking a side in your guys' back & forth. I just remember when I was 14-15 I wouldn't have known what a district attorney did or was. And I grew up with a police detective as my father.
I was thinking the same thing here winbypin but NEO is right that at that age even today we should make exceptions on how they should react to this sort of thing.

My point and I recognize it's harsh is aimed at young women in their late teens and older who IMO are obligated to report these incidents ASAP and if they come from the older generation they are still obligated to level the accusations before so much time elapses that folks of good faith simply can't determine whether they are true or not or how serious they actually were.
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  #5002  
Old 11-15-17, 09:58 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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I keep hearing the question why did these women wait so long to speak up and report what happened to them? The answer just might be that until now their reporting would not have had a effect on a person running for the senate and now they will get they minute of fame they would not have gotten until now. Right now it is the in thing to be able to report that someone well known as a actor, politician etc did something just maybe not completely socially correct to them. You know it was not long ago that it was stated that before you kissed a person you have to ask permission. This was not the case when I was a young man growing up and somehow we seems to have made it to old age with out to many problems.
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  #5003  
Old 11-15-17, 09:59 AM
beeman beeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Oh please, can't you see that YOU are the one channeling 1950's era morality? For crying out loud quit treating these victims like delicate flowers. In our society we expect victims to come forward and report crimes committed against them. How the hell else is law enforcement supposed to catch and imprison these scum bags? It is their civic duty to come forward ASAP. Do you think that in the 21st century sexual assault is somehow more debilitating then having a gun stuck in your face and being car jacked? Or people breaking into your house and ransacking it in front of you while they pistol whip your family? Hasn't the goal of the last 50 years been to STOP treating sexual assault as a special crime requiring special handling and treat it as a crime of VIOLENCE.

I get that back in the day when society often blamed the victims of sexual assault those victims had no obligation to report these crimes in the face of the abuse they often received at the hands of law enforcement and even their own friends & family. But those days are past. And while NEO is right that for most of Moore's cases the young women were operating in the bad old days why did they wait so LONG to report the dirty deeds. By early in this century women should have felt empowered to come forward and if they had then this creep wouldn't be on the verge of winning a senate seat.
Like I said, get back with a response after you're raped/assualted/molested. Nothing to debate here as you have no experience to speak from.

"Not all survivors find it necessary to report sexual assault to the criminal justice system in order to move forward from
their experience. In fact, some feel that the criminal justice system re-victimizes them in its process. Some survivors
find that the services provided by a rape crisis and recovery center or similar provider are the only services they feel
comfortable pursuing.
While measuring rates of sexual violence can be difficult, there is no uncertainty in the national data that the majority
of sexual assaults are never reported to police.
It is believed that only 15.8 to 35 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to the police.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, M. Planty and L. Langton, “Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010,” 2013; Wolitzky-Taylor et al, “Is
Reporting of Rape on the Rise? A Comparison of Women with Reported Versus Unreported Rape Experiences in the National Women’s StudyReplication,”
2010
A survivor’s relationship with the offender has a strong effect on the likelihood of reporting.
• When an offender is an intimate partner or former intimate partner, only 25 percent of sexual assaults are
reported to the police.
• When an offender is a friend or acquaintance, only 18 to 40 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
• When an offender is a stranger, between 46 and 66 percent of sexual assaults are reported.
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, T. Hart and C. Rennison, “Reporting Crime to the Police, 1992-2000,” 2003
Survivors cite the following reasons for not reporting a sexual assault:
• Fear of reprisal
• Personal matter
• Reported to a different official
• Not important enough to respondent
• Belief that the police would not do anything to help
• Belief that the police could not do anything to help
• Did not want to get offender in trouble with law
• Did not want family to know
• Did not want others to know
• Not enough proof
• Fear of the justice system
• Did not know how
• Feel the crime was not “serious enough”
• Fear of lack of evidence
• Unsure about perpetrator’s intent "

Last edited by beeman; 11-15-17 at 10:32 AM.
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  #5004  
Old 11-15-17, 10:18 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
I keep hearing the question why did these women wait so long to speak up and report what happened to them? The answer just might be that until now their reporting would not have had a effect on a person running for the senate and now they will get they minute of fame they would not have gotten until now. Right now it is the in thing to be able to report that someone well known as a actor, politician etc did something just maybe not completely socially correct to them. You know it was not long ago that it was stated that before you kissed a person you have to ask permission. This was not the case when I was a young man growing up and somehow we seems to have made it to old age with out to many problems.
Well if it's stated on yappi then you know it's true.
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  #5005  
Old 11-15-17, 10:21 AM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
I keep hearing the question why did these women wait so long to speak up and report what happened to them? The answer just might be that until now their reporting would not have had a effect on a person running for the senate and now they will get they minute of fame they would not have gotten until now. Right now it is the in thing to be able to report that someone well known as a actor, politician etc did something just maybe not completely socially correct to them. You know it was not long ago that it was stated that before you kissed a person you have to ask permission. This was not the case when I was a young man growing up and somehow we seems to have made it to old age with out to many problems.
Sounds like you forced yourself on poor teenage girls. I'm sure someone will come out and tell the world you kissed them without their permission if you were to run for office. It's all the rage now.
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  #5006  
Old 11-15-17, 10:34 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Originally Posted by Buck_98 View Post
Sounds like you forced yourself on poor teenage girls. I'm sure someone will come out and tell the world you kissed them without their permission if you were to run for office. It's all the rage now.
No I never forced myself on teenage girls have always had a thing for women that were just a little older then myself. Somehow I was smart enough to know if it was OK to kiss the girl without asking and I never had anyone one slap me or complain because I took the action.
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  #5007  
Old 11-15-17, 10:52 AM
beeman beeman is offline
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We're not just talking about "young women" either when not reporting sexual assault. Apparently, men are way more reluctant than women to report.

Statistics from the Criminal Justice System:

The Majority of Sexual Assaults Are Not Reported to the Police

Only 344 out of every 1,000 sexual assaults are reported to police. That means about 2 out of 3 go unreported.

Individuals of college age
Female Students: 20%
Female Non-Students: 32%
The elderly: 28%
Members of the military: 43% of female victims and 10% of male victims reported
Reasons Victims Choose Not to Report

Of the sexual violence crimes reported to police from 2005-2010, the survivor reporting gave the following reasons for doing so:

28% to protect the household or victim from further crimes by the offender
25% to stop the incident or prevent recurrence or escalation
21% to improve police surveillance or they believed they had a duty to do so
17% to catch/punish/prevent offender from reoffending
6% gave a different answer, or declined to cite one reason
3% did so to get help or recover loss

Of the sexual violence crimes not reported to police from 2005-2010, the victim gave the following reasons for not reporting:

20% feared retaliation
13% believed the police would not do anything to help
13% believed it was a personal matter
8% reported to a different official
8% believed it was not important enough to report
7% did not want to get the perpetrator in trouble
2% believed the police could not do anything to help
30% gave another reason, or did not cite one reason
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  #5008  
Old 11-15-17, 10:55 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Neo, here is the link to info on the yearbook signing being a forgery

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017...arbook-forged/
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  #5009  
Old 11-15-17, 10:59 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
No I never forced myself on teenage girls have always had a thing for women that were just a little older then myself. Somehow I was smart enough to know if it was OK to kiss the girl without asking and I never had anyone one slap me or complain because I took the action.
So you had the consent of the women you kissed? So basically nothing has changed from back in your day to now.
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  #5010  
Old 11-15-17, 11:05 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeman View Post
Like I said, get back with a response after you're raped/assualted/molested. Nothing to debate here as you have no experience to speak from.
I don't think he needs any. The question isn't about rape, assault, or molestation. Those are all wrong and LOTR would agree that they are. The question is about when someone comes forward, whatever the crime. There is a statute of limitations for bringing something to the attention of authorities for a very good reason, there needs to be evidence of a crime for there to be a conviction. Certainly, he is qualified to ask about the timing of the claim.

In this case, there is no evidence other than a claim. There were no allegations for almost 40 years, as Judge Moore went from attorney, to district attorney, to appointed judge to elected judge...... nor for 3 months of the current campaign..... but with 3 weeks to go, these women, after 40 years, decide to make their allegations public. Why now?

The question is without evidence and after nearly 4 decades, how should the claims be treated? In Hillary Clinton's case, she scoffed at claims that occurred within weeks of the alleged incidents with her husband with much more evidence at hand. Do we accept the guilt of someone because of a claim, or as a finding of fact? People have jumped to erroneous conclusions before of the Duke lacrosse team and various fraternities only to find later that the alleged victims lied.

We have a unique perspective of the law in America, innocent until PROVEN guilty. Whether you are Anthony Weiner, Bernie Madoff, Hillary Clinton, Pete Rose, Michael Brown, or Roy Moore, that's our legal standard. The press should take that stance on all claims until proven.
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