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  #61  
Old 10-13-17, 03:56 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Philly, to be clear while I went into details about how HS soccer could be modified and used to improve US soccer I don't believe it could accomplish this in a vacuum. Many of the other ideas put out on this thread could still be done in addition to a focus on taking advantage of the soccer infrastructure already in place.

* Move the HS soccer season to the spring across the entire USA. Exploit the growing popularity of soccer to recreate the "Friday Night Soccer" experience at the high school level. This would include evening games under the lights and bands playing at halftime. Kids are looking for a place to hang out and HS baseball simply can't provide the experience to mimic Friday night lights that soccer can, IMO.

* If you can establish a "Friday Night Lights" experience for soccer in HS it WILL attract better athletes to the game. As an added bonus you will convert more kids into future adult fans for the game. This is a win-win.

* You mention that HS soccer would only be a few months, true but the kids practice and play games basically 6 days out of 7 following a daily preseason training regimen. It's been over 20 years since my kid played club soccer but I don't remember them practicing as often as they do in HS.

* I get your criticism that football is unique so let's go with baseball as the model where you have year round club baseball AND high school baseball complimenting each other. In the case of soccer, if you can recreate the "Friday Night Lights" atmosphere for spring soccer, then it would have an edge on HS baseball in attracting top athletes.

Bottom line is that it's time to experiment and recognize that there isn't one solution here. Simply trying to incorporate HS soccer into the plan as part of a bigger effort seems like an easy way to both generate a larger player pipeline AND increase the sports popularity.
Let's take the 4 major pro sports in America, football, baseball, basketball, hockey. Of those 4, we really only compete internationally in 3. Of those 3 only 1 we easily surpass our international competition, basketball. One could argue that the gap in basketball is getting smaller, also shown by a growing international constituent in the NBA. I'd argue, just like women's soccer, basketball it padded by a huge head start over the rest of the world. A 10 fold lead over what women's soccer got.

Baseball is even at best with the world. Some could argue they are even behind. I don't see us ever showing dominance over the world in baseball.

Hockey is farely even as well. But hockey is the one of the four that doesn't follow the traditional American model of high school, college, NFL either. College yes, but not so much high school. Club hockey is the main avenue for that.

For the other 3 it is an almost strict adherence to the traditional American model. Is it really working out best for them? Football is the exception because again, there is little to no international participation. I don't think it's working best for baseball, but I think baseball's minor league system helps correct that. Basketball is doing ok, particularly with college, but club seems to be overtaking high school basketball. High school ball is starting to become more of a fun thing to do for a few months rather than a real developmemtal step forward. So is it really the best avenue if you're truly trying to maximize your development? Many would argue no.

So why would US soccer, that's looking to compete on the international level, double down on a system that the other major sports don't really fully utilize either? And you talk about them investing in the high school system. Why? What other US sanctioning body for a sport invests in high schools? Pretty sure every high school gets the money for their programs through the school district or local boosters. So soccer should be the one out of dozens of high school sports where the its governing body invests its money into the schools???

Again, you're using a structure, while fun for the community, isn't built for creating the best athletes. I don't know many high schools whose athletics department motto is about creating top tier elite athletes. They are geared towards creating greater all around young adults and being an extension of their academic program, as they should be.

And if you want to use the DA as an example, their training regiment is more focused and intense than any high school program outside of a couple hand fills. On top of that, the competition they face every game far exceeds what high schools face. Face it, high school is about enjoying yourself in school. Not developing into the best athlete possible.

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  #62  
Old 10-13-17, 04:00 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Oh yea, high school baseball and travel ball don't really compliment each other all that well. There is overlap and many will argue that the real place for developing and getting seen for the next level happens in the summer, not in the spring with your school. Basketball has the same MO as well.

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  #63  
Old 10-14-17, 01:52 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Soccer is played roughly 2-3 months a season at the youth-to-college levels. Professional is 8-10 months.
I don't think it can (or should necessarily) happen at the high school level, but now is the time to really have college coaches lean on the NCAA to move towards the oft-proposed but never adopted split-season format.
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  #64  
Old 10-16-17, 07:52 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
I don't think it can (or should necessarily) happen at the high school level, but now is the time to really have college coaches lean on the NCAA to move towards the oft-proposed but never adopted split-season format.
I wouldn't be opposed to high schools trying it out, especially for those programs that WANT to do it. Doesn't have to be mandatory to try it.

If they did, imagine how much that could curb the pay-to-play club model? Again, it's not a cure-all, but it could help the development of several kids.

If the parents/families invested as much time, effort, and money into their local publicly funded programs as they do into club, our system could become something even bigger. But, the limitations provided by NFHS prevent that from exploding.
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  #65  
Old 10-16-17, 11:20 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Here's some food for thought, Sunil was elected in 2006. At the time of his election the US ended up getting ranked #5 in FIFA World Rankings. Newest rankings came out today with US at 27.

Other notables, ranking in 2006 and 2017:
Poland -- 29 and 6
Chile -- 64 and 9
Peru -- 66 and 10
Switzerland -- 35 and 11
Wales -- 74 and 14
Iceland -- 99 and 11
Northern Ireland -- 96 and 14
Slovakia -- 41 and 14

And, remarkably...Tunisia -- 21 and 28, was ranked 16 spots below US is now one spot below. Tunisia has never advanced from the group stage of a World Cup, record of 1-7-4 (W-L-D, only win was debut match in 1978), only been to 4 WCs, and have not qualified since 2006. Tunisia has dropped 7 spots in this span while US has dropped 22.
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  #66  
Old 10-16-17, 04:58 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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Iceland's success is amazing. A country with about 330,000 people...less than half the size of Dayton's metropolitan area.

How do they do it?
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  #67  
Old 10-16-17, 05:11 PM
iluvsnow iluvsnow is offline
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Anyone who saw the US team destroy Paraquay in the knockout stage of the U-17 World Cup today has to be encouraged. Paraquay won all three of their games in the group stage...but was gouged all over the field by the USA. Lots of talent...speed and skill. Next up...winner of the Japan/England game Saturday morning on FOX Sports 2 in the round of 8.
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  #68  
Old 10-17-17, 07:46 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Iceland's success is amazing. A country with about 330,000 people...less than half the size of Dayton's metropolitan area.

How do they do it?
I have enjoyed studying Iceland's methodology. It truly is remarkable.

Some quick highlights of how:
  • Longest preseason in the world (7 months)
  • High level of coach education
  • Open door policy, NO cutting players
  • Train numerous times per week AND at school in PE
  • 36% of coaches have UEFA B
  • 100% coach involvement in KSI (Iceland federation)
  • 100+ mini-pitches built by KSI
  • 15 publicly owned indoor pitches built
  • Number 1 sport, it's their culture

Based on population, Iceland has a 1:500 ratio compared to England's 1:10,000 of "qualified coach" per person. For players, the ratio is actually 1:69.
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  #69  
Old 10-17-17, 07:53 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by sebbyb View Post
a

...and Chile at #9 did not make the World Cup. They have 2 of the top players in the world on that team. Argentina was behind in their final qualifying game and it took a hat tick from Messi to get them qualified.
Everything that could have gone wrong on the final day of qualifying, DID.
It's soccer, it happens.
US soccer never has been and never will be able to compete at the very highest level. Accept it, it's not going to change.
Accept it? That's pretty pitiful.

Granted, the 5 ranking in 2006 was inflated. But, how hard is it to believe that USMNT can compete at the highest levels? The 2009 Confederations Cup was a glimpse of what could happen.

Many countries would LOVE to have our success in the last 5 World Cups. I believe there have only been 7-8 countries advancing in knockout rounds of these World Cups and USMNT is in there. USMNT is tied for the 3rd longest streak of World Cups qualified for (7, and unfortunately ended).

It would be great to get over the hump. There's only been 8 countries that have won a World Cup. There are 211 national federations in FIFA. All countries that have won a World Cup border another World Cup winner -- if it's okay to include England who's only separated by a little water from their neighboring winner.

It's an uphill climb. I wish there were more changes to increase the USMNT odds of being more successful. As hard as I am on USSF, we have done okay...even with being held back by our own leadership.
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  #70  
Old 10-17-17, 08:33 AM
steelboot steelboot is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Some great feedback to my suggestion of focusing on HS as a way to develop US soccer talent. Here's my responses to some of the points made:

involved in effective blocking and shedding a block. It is far more than brute force.

* Move the HS soccer season for the entire country to the SPRING (like they do in the SW). Those states that have fall soccer are going up against football for popularity and will lose every time. In this way soccer can become the most popular spring sport in HS.

* Provide the incentives neccesary to convince AD's to feature soccer in the spring like they feature football in the fall and basketball in the winter. that means creating the FRIDAY NIGHT SOCCER mystique. Play your games on Tuesday and Friday nights with the Friday night games pulling out all the stops including cheer leaders and a marching band! This will lead to an increase in popularity of soccer in HS which will in turn lead to more high level athletes choosing to play soccer in HS. I also believe that there would be synergistic crossover between soccer & football like you see in the American southwest. The NFL. MLB & NBA are full of players who competed in the other "big" American sports when in HS.

If you think I'm crazy here I've been to some afternoon HS playoff games that featured huge crowds. There is a potential student & community market out there for FRIDAY NIGHT soccer. At the very least you would be creating legions of soccer fans for MLS & the US men's team.

I guess I'm just asking for people to think out of the box on this. The infrastructure for high school soccer is already here. And unlike most clubs parents are conditioned that Jr/Sr HS sports involves a six day effort of practices & games during the season. Where else can you get such focused participation in soccer outside of an academy?
Actually not a crazy idea. I do think soccer should get far more attention at the majority of schools. Especially when the Soccer program is head and shoulders above the football program. Several top soccer schools in the area have football teams that are God awful but yet still draw the crowds on Friday night (it is more of a social event than watching bad HS football).

Question: What do you do with the kids 5/6-12 years old?
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  #71  
Old 10-17-17, 09:01 AM
steelboot steelboot is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
The difference is that most other sports here in the US are survival of the fittest.

Soccer is survival of the richest.

AAU basketball teams don't carry scrubs. Neither do travel baseball teams. Travel is non-existent in football, but size and strength eventually weeds out 90% of kids before any kind of recruiting begins.

In soccer the poorest are weeded out first.

Are any club director's out there saying no to the middle class stay at home mom driving the Acura or Mercedes SUV to practice? I don't think so. As long as they fork over the money, they'll be a good squad player to have at practice and help pay the bills.

The kid with the parents willing to fork out the most generally lasts the longest.
I agree with your comments to some extent. To me the greed factor has a firm grip on Club Directors and/or coaches. This is why cincinnatisoccerfan, BL, and I committed to keeping costs down for all of our parents by essentially "volunteering" our time to train/coach. Additionally we sponsored (paid their fees and bought them uniforms) several players over the years that otherwise would not have been able to afford to play. Funny thing is we were far more successful during the three big years at U16 (State Cup Finalists), U17 (State Cup Semi-Finalists), and U18 (Finished 5th) than the high paid coaches from THAT Club in the area. In fact THAT Club actually offered me a job (paid) between the U16 and U17 seasons (which I declined). So bottom line is money doesn't necessarily buy you better training or coaching.
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  #72  
Old 10-17-17, 12:25 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Iceland's success is amazing. A country with about 330,000 people...less than half the size of Dayton's metropolitan area.

How do they do it?
Every school has a year round turf field. Every single one.

That would be a start.
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  #73  
Old 10-17-17, 12:27 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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I agree with your comments to some extent. To me the greed factor has a firm grip on Club Directors and/or coaches. This is why cincinnatisoccerfan, BL, and I committed to keeping costs down for all of our parents by essentially "volunteering" our time to train/coach. Additionally we sponsored (paid their fees and bought them uniforms) several players over the years that otherwise would not have been able to afford to play. Funny thing is we were far more successful during the three big years at U16 (State Cup Finalists), U17 (State Cup Semi-Finalists), and U18 (Finished 5th) than the high paid coaches from THAT Club in the area. In fact THAT Club actually offered me a job (paid) between the U16 and U17 seasons (which I declined). So bottom line is money doesn't necessarily buy you better training or coaching.
I agree with that 100%.

It's awesome that you all have that option down there.

Bigger picture though, US Soccer needs to fund that kind of thing everywhere.
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  #74  
Old 10-17-17, 12:32 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by steelboot View Post
I agree with your comments to some extent. To me the greed factor has a firm grip on Club Directors and/or coaches. This is why cincinnatisoccerfan, BL, and I committed to keeping costs down for all of our parents by essentially "volunteering" our time to train/coach. Additionally we sponsored (paid their fees and bought them uniforms) several players over the years that otherwise would not have been able to afford to play. Funny thing is we were far more successful during the three big years at U16 (State Cup Finalists), U17 (State Cup Semi-Finalists), and U18 (Finished 5th) than the high paid coaches from THAT Club in the area. In fact THAT Club actually offered me a job (paid) between the U16 and U17 seasons (which I declined). So bottom line is money doesn't necessarily buy you better training or coaching.
I coach baseball and this is the exact philosophy I'm using towards baseball. Just like soccer, I feel baseball has become an exclusive sport. I love baseball too much to allow it to force families out because of cost. So I try to offer select level coaching at "rec" level costs. This has meant that I've supplemented individual and even sometimes team costs with my own money. You'd be surprised what you can save when you cut out the 3 or 4 different uniforms, monogrammed bags, individual helmets, etc (sarcasm).

I'm only 3 years into my experiment, but so far I think the results have been tremendous. We are only 9u right now so on the field results are coming. The biggest thing I've seen is the amount of parents I've attracted with this mentality. So much so that I actually coached 2 separate teams this past fall. Unfortunately the popularity has forced me to have to turn kids away simply because I don't have enough room. But I always try to refer them to other coaches I feel are a positive for the sport as well.

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  #75  
Old 10-17-17, 09:33 PM
steelboot steelboot is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Again, you're using a structure, while fun for the community, isn't built for creating the best athletes. I don't know many high schools whose athletics department motto is about creating top tier elite athletes. They are geared towards creating greater all around young adults and being an extension of their academic program, as they should be.

And if you want to use the DA as an example, their training regiment is more focused and intense than any high school program outside of a couple hand fills. On top of that, the competition they face every game far exceeds what high schools face. Face it, high school is about enjoying yourself in school. Not developing into the best athlete possible.

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I think you have God given "athletic ability" and developing a player at a particular sport confused.

Honestly the DA will get (if not already) watered down because of one thing...the all mighty dollar. Why at u16-18 do we have thousands of kids playing the DA? 99% of them have ZERO chance of making a USNT roster.

Bottom line I'm not sure there is a quick/good fix to the current issue. Not sure the US can ever compete with countries that have their top athletes all playing soccer.
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  #76  
Old 10-18-17, 07:54 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Not sure the US can ever compete with countries that have their top athletes all playing soccer.
We are not getting into this lame duck discussion.
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  #77  
Old 10-19-17, 07:22 AM
3343 3343 is offline
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Rumor has it that Landon Donovan is interested in running for US Soccer Presidency......any thoughts on this?
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  #78  
Old 10-19-17, 07:34 AM
Kickin Wing Kickin Wing is offline
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Rumor has it that Landon Donovan is interested in running for US Soccer Presidency......any thoughts on this?
Doubt he could do much worse. At least you would know his heart is in it.
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  #79  
Old 10-19-17, 08:31 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Landycakes' heart is in it? Like taking a 4-month sabbatical during 2012 World Cup qualifying? The same one who made comments like:

Quote:
I was never the guy who was going to give up the rest of my life to do more in the soccer world.
His former coach, and former USMNT manager, Arena says:

Quote:
In the last eight years, it's been a coin flip with what to expect from him.
No thank you. He's a Gulati and Garber peon.
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  #80  
Old 10-19-17, 08:35 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Landycakes'
I don't know who gave him that nickname, but it's pure gold.

I'd take Wynalda every day of the week over Donovan.

EDIT: It was the guys at World Football Daily... miss that show

Last edited by EastYoungstown; 10-19-17 at 08:54 AM..
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  #81  
Old 10-19-17, 09:41 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
I don't know who gave him that nickname, but it's pure gold.

I'd take Wynalda every day of the week over Donovan.

EDIT: It was the guys at World Football Daily... miss that show
I cannot let the nickname go away! Unfortunately, it's just not seen too much anymore.

I'm with you on Wynalda too. Not sure he's my #1 candidate, but I don't know who is. It would be great if they actually held a debate and/or planning FAQ. The voters need to be aware of multiple issues that these candidates are running on.
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  #82  
Old 10-19-17, 10:02 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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I cannot let the nickname go away! Unfortunately, it's just not seen too much anymore.

I'm with you on Wynalda too. Not sure he's my #1 candidate, but I don't know who is. It would be great if they actually held a debate and/or planning FAQ. The voters need to be aware of multiple issues that these candidates are running on.
Wynalda tells it like it is. Never holds back. Which could be good and bad.

Donovan says nothing.

Lalas likes to pretend to say things, but really doesn't.

I'd like to see Claudio Reyna toss his hat in the ring.

Taylor Twellman can moderate.
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  #83  
Old 10-19-17, 10:22 AM
outsideobserver11 outsideobserver11 is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Wynalda tells it like it is. Never holds back. Which could be good and bad.

Donovan says nothing.

Lalas likes to pretend to say things, but really doesn't.

I'd like to see Claudio Reyna toss his hat in the ring.

Taylor Twellman can moderate.
He should just run because he gets it. He will give us change!
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  #84  
Old 10-19-17, 10:29 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Wynalda tells it like it is. Never holds back. Which could be good and bad.

Donovan says nothing.

Lalas likes to pretend to say things, but really doesn't.

I'd like to see Claudio Reyna toss his hat in the ring.

Taylor Twellman can moderate.
Candidates right now:
-- Gulati, expected to run again
-- Wynalda, supposed to officially announce soon
-- John Motta, USASA president, USSF board member, and mulling run
-- Landycakes, mulling run
-- Paul LaPointe, UPSL Northeast Conference Manager
-- Steve Gans, Boston attorney and big soccer background

Those are the names I've seen around. Sure, there's tons of others that people would like run. But, none are real candidates.
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  #85  
Old 10-24-17, 10:02 AM
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Looks like Dave Sarachan will guide the team in the two friendlies in November.

He's been a long-time Arena assistant. Sigh.
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  #86  
Old 10-24-17, 10:42 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Looks like Dave Sarachan will guide the team in the two friendlies in November.

He's been a long-time Arena assistant. Sigh.
which means no one wants to touch that dumpster fire right now
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  #87  
Old 10-24-17, 01:41 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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which means no one wants to touch that dumpster fire right now
That could be part of it. But, they've also stated they wouldn't name the next full-time head coach until a thorough search and after Russia 2018.

I'm sure if the right candidate came forward before then, we'd have a new coach. I also wonder how much of it hinges on the February USSF presidential race.
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Old 10-24-17, 01:46 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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That could be part of it. But, they've also stated they wouldn't name the next full-time head coach until a thorough search and after Russia 2018.

I'm sure if the right candidate came forward before then, we'd have a new coach. I also wonder how much of it hinges on the February USSF presidential race.
Most likely that's the case.

For now though it's HS playoff season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

All things USMNT are officially on hold!
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  #89  
Old 10-24-17, 01:48 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Recruit from the inner city. Rich kids suck at sports. But that’s like saying water is wet
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  #90  
Old 10-24-17, 03:23 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Recruit from the inner city. Rich kids suck at sports. But that’s like saying water is wet
I guess the question then becomes how do you get inner-city kids interested in a sport that isn't basketball or football? I mean even baseball, an affordable sport with a storied history in this country and with more media exposure, struggles in getting inner-city kids to play.

It's been said before, but the pay-to-model is a big challenge in expanding access to the game. But it's not the only challenge: Kids have to want to play.
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