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  #61  
Old 03-03-15, 04:19 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refman View Post
A full, straight-back suplay and the straight-back salto to the head are illegal.
A suplay from the side is legal per se...if its not UNR.
Can't comment on the clip as I wasnt there. That referee is a good guy and knows his stuff.
Just a fan of the sport, but to me that video looked toward the side.

If it was toward the side, you are saying it would only be illegal if there was unnecessary roughness?

If it was straight up/over the head of the offensive wrestler then it would be illegal?

Thanks.
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  #62  
Old 03-03-15, 08:02 PM
Ohio Blast Ohio Blast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
Read pages 15-17....

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/wr/boys/...sMechanics.pdf

...this should be a MUST READ for everyone prior to Sectional and Districts when the stalling boo-birds come out.

Key things to look for On Top:

* Watch for parallel riding (riding hips) w/o an attempt to break down the opponent.

* Watch for parallel riding with opponent broken down on the mat with no attempt to get perpendicular to work for fall or near fall.

Bottom Line: Riding parallel, legs wrapped (or not), on the hips looking like you are trying to work a power half will not cut it.
Interesting that you only chose to only highlight key points for the top man. Even the pages you referenced in the mechanics book that discuss "defensive stalling" seem to still put the initial onus on the top man. The bottom man should share equal responsibility to improve including from a double grapevine/power half position. The bottom man does have options to improve.

A major ding on Ohio officiating in general is that the top man is perceived to carry the majority of the responsibility to improve and this is simply wrong. It is a shared responsibility. Sealing off and covering to gain hand control on bottom should not require the top man to come off the hips and expose his position. PIAA officials do a much better job in general of demanding equal responsibility and their coaches/kids have adjusted. Is it a major reason they are perceived to be superior mat wrestlers? Nobody can say for sure, but their expectations can't hurt.
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  #63  
Old 03-06-15, 11:38 AM
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Jmog....exactly.
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  #64  
Old 06-11-15, 08:16 PM
huskerdoc huskerdoc is offline
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Skin question: Can someone wrestle with warts? Will the official clear him or does he have to have a skin form?
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  #65  
Old 06-12-15, 02:15 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Originally Posted by huskerdoc View Post
Skin question: Can someone wrestle with warts? Will the official clear him or does he have to have a skin form?
My general rule of thumb (in the absence of a trained medical person) is that if I don't know what I am looking at or if I have ANY questions about what I see, that person will not be on my mat. Always better safe than sorry.

I don't know a lot about warts but I do believe that some kinds (and maybe all) can be contagious. Not life threatening but no one else wants them either.

Turn this around 180*, would you want your child to wrestle against someone with some sort of "issue" that makes you uncomfortable?

Just my $.02.
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  #66  
Old 06-16-15, 11:09 AM
huskerdoc huskerdoc is offline
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Since your not a trained professional, I skin form document should be fine for him to wrestle then. If a Dr. trusts he won't spread the disease then all should be good. I'm making sure he has them covered as well. I just need to know now to see if I have to get him to a Dr. to have them removed so that they have time to heal before football and wrestling begin. That is why I'm asking the question.
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  #67  
Old 06-16-15, 12:28 PM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Originally Posted by huskerdoc View Post
Since your not a trained professional, I skin form document should be fine for him to wrestle then. If a Dr. trusts he won't spread the disease then all should be good. I'm making sure he has them covered as well.
This is incorrect. He is an official and officials can override doctor's notes. Therefor in this case your son would not be wrestling if this particular official was doing skin check. As for covering it, covering it is not an acceptable preventative measure to allow someone to compete with a skin issue. I'd recommend you get them removed as they are contagious and probably will give you issues throughout the season.
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  #68  
Old 06-16-15, 12:57 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huskerdoc View Post
Since your not a trained professional, I skin form document should be fine for him to wrestle then. If a Dr. trusts he won't spread the disease then all should be good. I'm making sure he has them covered as well. I just need to know now to see if I have to get him to a Dr. to have them removed so that they have time to heal before football and wrestling begin. That is why I'm asking the question.
You are 100% correct, I am not a trained medical person. However, you are incorrect in a couple of ways.

The Doctor is not the person on the mat with the wrestler. The opponent and I am in that position. We are the ones who have to deal with any fallout if the Doctor was not correct. Again, better safe than sorry.

Second, covering anything that is contagious does not make the athlete eligible to compete.

Third, if a Doctor tells me that a wrestler con not complete, I have no ability or reason to over-rule him/her. However, the reverse is not true. A doctor could fill out the form completely correctly and allow a wrestler to compete.

However, in the absence of a train medical person (on site and paid for by the event or school), I can easily over-ride the note. The Doctor fills it out with the idea that time and medications will heal the problem by such and such a date. What happens if the athlete doesn't do what the Doctor prescribed? The situation is no better than before the doctor visit.

That is why the rules makers give us that latitude. It is NOT to prevent anyone from competing but it is to keep problems to a minimum.

My suggestion, get it taken care of instead of waiting and hoping.

I would rather see your son compete.
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  #69  
Old 06-16-15, 10:00 PM
huskerdoc huskerdoc is offline
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I see what your saying and that is why I asked. I was just wondering because I was told they are contagious but no one else in our family has got them from him. Myself and his brother wrestle with him all the time.

They are not like other skin issues that ooze and are nasty.

I have seen officials bench kids because of bad acne before so I don't have much faith their medical decisions.
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  #70  
Old 11-12-15, 07:02 AM
Binuova Binuova is offline
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Is there a rule on how long hair can be in the back?
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  #71  
Old 11-12-15, 03:37 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binuova View Post
Is there a rule on how long hair can be in the back?
Yes
Rule 4-2-1 covers this.
If the hair is longer than permitted, a hair cover made to fit the head gear must be worn.
No exceptions this year (as of now).
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  #72  
Old 11-30-15, 10:14 AM
huskerdoc huskerdoc is offline
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What is the lightest you can weigh in middle school is it 60 or 65? I looked at the Jr. High handbook, I didn't see a minimum. Only for 205 wrestling heavy.
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  #73  
Old 12-09-15, 02:12 PM
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As with high school, I do not believe there is a minimum
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  #74  
Old 12-12-15, 01:31 PM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
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Is the second ref suppose to stop the match if he sees a legal pinning combination slip to illegal while the primary ref. Is looking for the pin.

Seen it twice today at JH tournament where after time or pin the refs discuss then explain to coach. Then put time back on clock and resume wrestling after giving back points.
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  #75  
Old 12-12-15, 09:13 PM
lockitup lockitup is offline
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My wrestler has a donjoy knee brace. He was told he could not wrestle with it? It also came with a sleeve. It's the same one he wrestled with last year. Is there been a change in the rules?
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  #76  
Old 12-14-15, 02:04 PM
lockitup lockitup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockitup View Post
My wrestler has a donjoy knee brace. He was told he could not wrestle with it? It also came with a sleeve. It's the same one he wrestled with last year. Is there been a change in the rules?
Never mind I will go else where, to find a answer.
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  #77  
Old 12-14-15, 02:53 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Do you have a pic of the knee brace? I am not familiar with the name of it.
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  #78  
Old 12-14-15, 03:06 PM
lockitup lockitup is offline
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Originally Posted by wjjsj View Post
Do you have a pic of the knee brace? I am not familiar with the name of it.
I will get one for you. The same knee brace Cleveland State uses.
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  #79  
Old 12-21-15, 10:25 AM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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I would like everyone's opinions on this maneuver. Thoughts?

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  #80  
Old 12-21-15, 10:36 AM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Originally Posted by Whizzer King View Post
I would like everyone's opinions on this maneuver. Thoughts?

It's tough to tell I would have leaned towards slam because he left his feet. The ref should have stopped it as soon as the top mans feet were off the ground.
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  #81  
Old 12-21-15, 10:42 AM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
It's tough to tell I would have leaned towards slam because he left his feet. The ref should have stopped it as soon as the top mans feet were off the ground.
My thoughts exactly
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  #82  
Old 12-21-15, 10:44 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
The ref should have stopped it as soon as the top mans feet were off the ground.
That's what I was thinking. I don't think it was malicious and the delivery to the mat was not entirely "out of control", but the kid on top essentially had no way to brace his landing.
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  #83  
Old 12-21-15, 11:18 AM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
It's tough to tell I would have leaned towards slam because he left his feet. The ref should have stopped it as soon as the top mans feet were off the ground.
Exactly. Should have been stopped. Hate to penalize a kid because of my goof.
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  #84  
Old 12-21-15, 02:20 PM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Originally Posted by Whizzer King View Post
I would like everyone's opinions on this maneuver. Thoughts?

Many officials do not stop the match quickly enough when there is an imminent dangerous situation. It has appeared for quite some time, that the majority "waits" to see what happens... Then it is too late.

Too many times, wrestlers are taken to the mat when they do not have a way to defend themselves from going to the mat (i.e. they do not have a post). you see this a lot when the wrestler in control has a trapped wrist (2-on-1) and they take the wrestler to the mat on their head. I understand that this is a hard position to prevent injury, however, in the 5 events that our wrestlers have been in, I have seen this situation occur at least a dozen times and only once was an official quick to stop the action because the bottom wrestler was starting to go to the mat without a post. This should be called potentially dangerous immediately. I do understand that this is hard to stop, but I don't think we are doing a very good job preventing the situation. I also believe that coaches should eliminate this practice in their own wrestling room and make their wrestlers aware of the danger it poses.

With new concussion protocols it is too easy to lose a kid for an extended period of time, not to mention that the kid could seriously become injured.

This needs immediate attention for our officials. As a whole, they are not doing a good enough job of preventing imminent danger to the wrestlers. I am seeing this happen way too much.

THIS NEEDS TO BE A POINT OF EMPHASIS!

Last edited by Whizzer King; 12-21-15 at 04:28 PM.
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  #85  
Old 12-21-15, 03:20 PM
CoachKerry CoachKerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizzer King View Post
I would like everyone's opinions on this maneuver. Thoughts?

"That ain't illegal, that's called RASSLIN!!!" - anonymous West Virginian youth coach
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  #86  
Old 12-21-15, 04:28 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Interesting to me mainly because my son won the youth Ohioway state title with this exact move last year, but he was the top kid.

It was tied, he had a leg in and figure 4'd and had managed to put in a cross face cradle on the kid as the kid tripod'ed up. The kid did the same thing, hooked my son's head and rolled (but was MUCH less violent, it was really a roll to try to come out on top). My son rolled right through and got the 5 count for the cradle.

My son DEFINITELY had no feet or post on the ground as he had a figure 4 and a cradle at the same time. If he had been slammed like this, I definitely would have been upset but I am SURE that at the time if the ref had stopped it for PD I would have been upset as well having not seen/known the danger.

I am very interested on if it should have been stopped for PD or just a point for the maliciousness of the slam.

My son rides legs a lot and turns it into various unorthodox leg tilts (cradles, ball and chain, etc) and has been in this situation a few times and it has NEVER been called PD, he has ended up scoring with a tilt each and every time as the kid tries to "roll" he ends up on his own back giving up 2 or 3 points.

While it would suck to lose that scoring opportunity for him, I would HATE to see what happened to the top kid happen to my son, it was QUITE obvious he had a concussion the way his arms went out.
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  #87  
Old 12-21-15, 04:34 PM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Interesting to me mainly because my son won the youth Ohioway state title with this exact move last year, but he was the top kid.

It was tied, he had a leg in and figure 4'd and had managed to put in a cross face cradle on the kid as the kid tripod'ed up. The kid did the same thing, hooked my son's head and rolled (but was MUCH less violent, it was really a roll to try to come out on top). My son rolled right through and got the 5 count for the cradle.

My son DEFINITELY had no feet or post on the ground as he had a figure 4 and a cradle at the same time. If he had been slammed like this, I definitely would have been upset but I am SURE that at the time if the ref had stopped it for PD I would have been upset as well having not seen/known the danger.

I am very interested on if it should have been stopped for PD or just a point for the maliciousness of the slam.

My son rides legs a lot and turns it into various unorthodox leg tilts (cradles, ball and chain, etc) and has been in this situation a few times and it has NEVER been called PD, he has ended up scoring with a tilt each and every time as the kid tries to "roll" he ends up on his own back giving up 2 or 3 points.

While it would suck to lose that scoring opportunity for him, I would HATE to see what happened to the top kid happen to my son, it was QUITE obvious he had a concussion the way his arms went out.
Great post and very honest. In the video, the kid in orange appears to panic and breaks his lock. The position to maintain is certainly the one your kid chose; keep the lock, tuck your head and roll through.
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  #88  
Old 12-21-15, 09:00 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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PD as soon as the bottom man takes his hands off the mat IMO.
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  #89  
Old 12-21-15, 09:03 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizzer King View Post
Many officials do not stop the match quickly enough when there is an imminent dangerous situation. It has appeared for quite some time, that the majority "waits" to see what happens... Then it is too late.

Too many times, wrestlers are taken to the mat when they do not have a way to defend themselves from going to the mat (i.e. they do not have a post). you see this a lot when the wrestler in control has a trapped wrist (2-on-1) and they take the wrestler to the mat on their head. I understand that this is a hard position to prevent injury, however, in the 5 events that our wrestlers have been in, I have seen this situation occur at least a dozen times and only once was an official quick to stop the action because the bottom wrestler was starting to go to the mat without a post. This should be called potentially dangerous immediately. I do understand that this is hard to stop, but I don't think we are doing a very good job preventing the situation. I also believe that coaches should eliminate this practice in their own wrestling room and make their wrestlers aware of the danger it poses.

With new concussion protocols it is too easy to lose a kid for an extended period of time, not to mention that the kid could seriously become injured.

This needs immediate attention for our officials. As a whole, they are not doing a good enough job of preventing imminent danger to the wrestlers. I am seeing this happen way too much.

THIS NEEDS TO BE A POINT OF EMPHASIS!
Let me get this straight... are you talking about stopping the match for PD when the wrestlers come to their feet and the "top" man is behind the bottom man and locks up a 2 on 1?
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  #90  
Old 12-21-15, 10:56 PM
Whizzer King Whizzer King is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Let me get this straight... are you talking about stopping the match for PD when the wrestlers come to their feet and the "top" man is behind the bottom man and locks up a 2 on 1?
No that's not what I am saying. By rule, if the official feels there is potential for injury he must stop the match. In other words, if it is imminent that the wrestler in control is taking his opponent to the mat where he is defenseless, the official needs to do what ever he can to prevent injury. Currently, too many officials have not done enough to prevent the potential for injury.

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(7-2-2) In this arm bar/tight waist the defensive wrestler is defenseless if taken to the mat (illustration in nfhs book). If the official feels there is potential for injury, then the match must be stopped to protect the defensive wrestler
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