Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Boys Basketball

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-31-17, 08:17 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-11-13
Posts: 2,942
Philly_Cat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
That came out a little harsh, but yes- the drop off in talent is pretty bad. Started towards the end of the previous coaches tenure- out of 12 kids from one of the Jr high teams 6 left to go to GCL schools or East. It has only gotten worse and none of the super athletic football players cross over anymore and play both (a trend not limited to just West).
VW did nobody any favors with his last year at West. He had a varsity roster of 10 seniors and 2 juniors. The next year was going to be brutal for anyone that took over. I've said on here recently that I still hear from many youth basketball parents that say they don't care for what West does in the off-season. Some have even said their camps are a waste of time. East has cultivated a great youth outreach with its many off-season programs and what it's done is make a lot West families go to East programs even if they don't plan on crossing over and going to East by high school time. Whether or not that is legitimately pulling West kids over to East for high school, I'm not sure, but it can't be helping the cause.

Just an FYI, and this is just my opinion, the current Lakota 7th grade class (East and West) is full of really talented athletes in multiple sports. It will be interesting to see how it plays out with them over the next few years.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-31-17, 09:37 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-03-12
Posts: 1,405
Kballer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballlife89 View Post
It doesn't help Gcl schools in players ears at the 8th grade level either.
I'm not sure I would blame coaching in the gmc. Mason east oak hills are solid, sycamores new coach should do well, Princeton's new coach is a former d1 player and coached a little college ball as Well as coaching big summer ball. Hamilton and Middletown is iffy. Colerain, not sure who is there still but last year the coach left during the blowout play off game vs the Vikings. Other than a few teams coaching isn't bad.

The era of 20 year coaches are probably over now that parents complain so much any chance they get.

Also I highly doubt ,even the lack of talent, that we will have any team average less than 30pts a game this year.
With all due respect since this is a GMC thread and don't want to rehash the endless debate- parents drive the bus on kids going to a different school these days. They practically throw their kids at the coaches- have been watching this for years from "both sides". If kids are jumping ship at west to go to East then why isn't the accusation there that East is recruiting and "getting in the players ears"? If the argument is that the kids are going becaus it is a better coach/program/opportunity at East, then why can't people wrap their head around that being the reason why they leave and go to Moeller, for instance?
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-01-17, 10:13 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-11-13
Posts: 2,942
Philly_Cat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
With all due respect since this is a GMC thread and don't want to rehash the endless debate- parents drive the bus on kids going to a different school these days. They practically throw their kids at the coaches- have been watching this for years from "both sides". If kids are jumping ship at west to go to East then why isn't the accusation there that East is recruiting and "getting in the players ears"? If the argument is that the kids are going becaus it is a better coach/program/opportunity at East, then why can't people wrap their head around that being the reason why they leave and go to Moeller, for instance?
I first want to say that I completely agree with what you've said. I do however want to add that East vs West is within the same school district, so the movement between the two isn't the same as moving outside of the school district, or at least that's how I view it. But I also grew up in a school district with 2 high school and picking and choosing between the two was not seen as a big deal. I know very few, kids that went to our schools K-8th then disappeared for private school. Private school kids in our area were always private school kids from start to finish for the most part, there were a few but not many. What was weird about them to me was they literally were separate from us in everything. I never had any private school kids even playing on any of my sports teams outside of school. They lived in their own world.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-01-17, 10:24 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-11-13
Posts: 2,942
Philly_Cat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
With all due respect since this is a GMC thread and don't want to rehash the endless debate- parents drive the bus on kids going to a different school these days. They practically throw their kids at the coaches- have been watching this for years from "both sides". If kids are jumping ship at west to go to East then why isn't the accusation there that East is recruiting and "getting in the players ears"? If the argument is that the kids are going becaus it is a better coach/program/opportunity at East, then why can't people wrap their head around that being the reason why they leave and go to Moeller, for instance?
Oh, while I do agree with you that it really is parents that are throwing their kids at these privates, I do have an anecdotal story that happened just last night. So last night I was a basketball tryout for this Fall. It was for a team my son has played with in the past. I was talking with one of the kids from my son's past teams about what his junior high team was going to look like this Winter, and out of nowhere he started telling me about how a bunch of them (kids) were all trying to team up together to go to Moeller in 9th grade. I told him my son will gladly go with them if his dad agreed to pay his tuition
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-04-17, 11:01 AM
Carl Rick Carl Rick is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 02-28-09
Posts: 2,179
Carl Rick is on a distinguished road
Private schools have to do some level of recruiting. Many of the privates are Catholic schools. Over the years the Catholic schools teams were players who came from their parishes. Often times these students never attended a public school at all. Cincinnati Moeller changed that. Starting with Faust and their football they started actively recruiting kids/parents. Today you have Moeller football, basketball, etc. trying to get every good player they can in order to win. Many others have followed suit like Akron St. Vincent, Cleveland St. Joe's, Cleveland St. Ed's, Cincinnati Roger Bacon, and more Catholic schools who have rosters of students that aren't their parish kids. Then you have other non-Catholic private schools and certain public schools recruiting. Many people myself included don't believe this is in the spirit of HS sports. I know this is a GMC thread but this impacts GMC schools.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-04-17, 08:44 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-03-12
Posts: 1,405
Kballer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
Private schools have to do some level of recruiting. Many of the privates are Catholic schools. Over the years the Catholic schools teams were players who came from their parishes. Often times these students never attended a public school at all. Cincinnati Moeller changed that. Starting with Faust and their football they started actively recruiting kids/parents. Today you have Moeller football, basketball, etc. trying to get every good player they can in order to win. Many others have followed suit like Akron St. Vincent, Cleveland St. Joe's, Cleveland St. Ed's, Cincinnati Roger Bacon, and more Catholic schools who have rosters of students that aren't their parish kids. Then you have other non-Catholic private schools and certain public schools recruiting. Many people myself included don't believe this is in the spirit of HS sports. I know this is a GMC thread but this impacts GMC schools.
Again, not trying to rehash the 1,000 page thread on the whole public/private debate- the question I have is: why is it not being called recruiting when a kid goes from West to East? Yes, they are the same district but In my opinion it is more obviously sports related because the schools are so similar (vs going to an all boys Catholic, private school) except the basketball opportunity is perceived to be better.
I don't really want to respond to your other allegations towards the privates because I have spoken my opinions on that subject many times. Recruiting has really become about the parents shopping their kids around for the best opportunity to achieve their personal agendas than coaches recruiting kids. Wether that's at a private school or the public one across the township line.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-08-17, 02:05 PM
Carl Rick Carl Rick is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 02-28-09
Posts: 2,179
Carl Rick is on a distinguished road
kballer, you are correct that parents are often behind the moves that are made. You are also correct in stating the reasons why parents make those moves. There is you must admit a difference in those situations compared to those schools (public and private) that are aggressive in targeting players or making it known their doors are open. It was pretty well known in Cincinnati a couple years ago when a new coach came into St. X that they changed their approach. It happens, it will continue to happen, nothing can change it, and people will continue to debate it.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-13-17, 09:38 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-03-12
Posts: 1,405
Kballer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
kballer, you are correct that parents are often behind the moves that are made. You are also correct in stating the reasons why parents make those moves. There is you must admit a difference in those situations compared to those schools (public and private) that are aggressive in targeting players or making it known their doors are open. It was pretty well known in Cincinnati a couple years ago when a new coach came into St. X that they changed their approach. It happens, it will continue to happen, nothing can change it, and people will continue to debate it.
I think perception is everything- people assume that certain schools are aggressively recruiting when often they are not (the X guy being an exception- dude wasn't even trying to besubtle!). Too often kids/parents will falsely say that a coach/school is going after them hard just to make themselves feel important- happens at the college level and the high school level and AAU/"select"/"elite" even.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-13-17, 11:55 AM
Carl Rick Carl Rick is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 02-28-09
Posts: 2,179
Carl Rick is on a distinguished road
Good points kballer about parents and kids wanting to feel important.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-13-17, 01:12 PM
yakyak yakyak is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 06-11-14
Posts: 735
yakyak is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblue75 View Post
Syracuse produces NBA talent. Not saying Bazely will leave early, but it's not uncommon at Syracuse. I probably missed a few as well, just some UC killers I can remember from their time in the Big East.

Dion Waiters
Tyler Ennis
Michael Carter-Williams
Fab Melo
Wes Johnson
Jonny Flynn
From an NBA standpoint, the 2-3 zone produced
Ennis - Bust,
Carter - Williams - Bust,
Fab Melo Ultra Bust,
Wes Johnson - Bustish,
Flynn Bust.

Those are some of the biggest busts in the last 10 years. Syracuse is one of the greatest college programs in the country. The history producing NBA players is not great based on value per draft position and other fancy pants metrics.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 09-13-17, 03:58 PM
JElder JElder is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-30-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 13,415
JElder is on a distinguished road
Bazely is up to #9 in the latest ESPN Top 100 rankings. It's a very real possibility he could be a 1 and done or 2year and done player. With that being said, I feel like he will come down with some type of season ending injury at some point this year. There is so much money involved with kids of his caliber that It almost makes it pointless to play your Sr. season.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 09-13-17, 09:45 PM
Carl Rick Carl Rick is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 02-28-09
Posts: 2,179
Carl Rick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
From an NBA standpoint, the 2-3 zone produced
Ennis - Bust,
Carter - Williams - Bust,
Fab Melo Ultra Bust,
Wes Johnson - Bustish,
Flynn Bust.

Those are some of the biggest busts in the last 10 years. Syracuse is one of the greatest college programs in the country. The history producing NBA players is not great based on value per draft position and other fancy pants metrics.
It is a very small % of top NCAA players that go on to have All-Star careers. Most are fortunate just to have a career. Example-Villanova wins the title 2 years ago. How many of those players are in the NBA?
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 09-14-17, 10:17 AM
bballlife89 bballlife89 is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-17-17
Posts: 9
bballlife89 is on a distinguished road
Bazely is playing for a ring, he won't stop until he gets the rings or is knocked out.i like all the negativity towards one of the most skilled players this area has seen in several years. I bet if he was a mason or Moeller player we wouldn't be having these comments.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 09-14-17, 12:05 PM
BusinessEnd BusinessEnd is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-29-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,104
BusinessEnd
Bazely would never be a Mason player - Moeller would have recruited him out in the 8th grade! I think the question the average high school fan has of Bazely is why his numbers aren't better. The other high level recruits from Cincinnati put up high school numbers that showed why they had been offered. Bazely is an example of recruitment being based on potential and measureables.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 09-14-17, 02:17 PM
JElder JElder is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-30-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 13,415
JElder is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessEnd View Post
Bazely would never be a Mason player - Moeller would have recruited him out in the 8th grade! I think the question the average high school fan has of Bazely is why his numbers aren't better. The other high level recruits from Cincinnati put up high school numbers that showed why they had been offered. Bazely is an example of recruitment being based on potential and measureables.
Not so much potential and measurable, it's based off what he has done in the top AAU circuit in the country. He is a top of the line talent when he wants to be. I don't think high school is the level he plays hard at.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 09-14-17, 04:08 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-11-13
Posts: 2,942
Philly_Cat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Not so much potential and measurable, it's based off what he has done in the top AAU circuit in the country. He is a top of the line talent when he wants to be. I don't think high school is the level he plays hard at.
That says a ton about him as a player and person. A college coach could be in for a potential headache waiting to happen down the road.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 09-15-17, 08:19 AM
JElder JElder is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-30-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 13,415
JElder is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
That says a ton about him as a player and person. A college coach could be in for a potential headache waiting to happen down the road.
Maybe and I know I'm generalizing here but it's been my experience that most high level D1 kids don't play very hard at the high school level. Then again it could just be the fact that it looks to easy for rhem.too.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 09-15-17, 10:12 AM
BusinessEnd BusinessEnd is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-29-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,104
BusinessEnd
Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Maybe and I know I'm generalizing here but it's been my experience that most high level D1 kids don't play very hard at the high school level. Then again it could just be the fact that it looks to easy for rhem.too.
You never watched Kennard, Edwards, Cook, Mayo, Walker, Harris, Cumberland, Johnson play? How hard did Erik Daniels play at Princeton? Now compare them to how Bazely plays at the high school level? Unless that first list of guys were playing a completely overmatched team (and some of them did) they played with a high motor and filled up the stat sheet. Very different in all respects - those guys all put up numbers for multiple years at the HS level, didn't lose many games in their HS careers (DB 18-19 in his HS games played) and dominated on the AAU circuit. Bazely's biggest question mark - including at the D1 level - is his motor. Talent outside of his 3PT shooting (6 makes in 11 games at 33%) is unquestioned. His handle, size, vision should make him the runaway POY in the GMC and are clearly the reasons he is a high major recruit. This season we will see what his motor looks like - I would imagine a player who is 'all about the rings' would play pretty hard his senior year.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 09-15-17, 10:29 AM
JElder JElder is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-30-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 13,415
JElder is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessEnd View Post
You never watched Kennard, Edwards, Cook, Mayo, Walker, Harris, Cumberland, Johnson play? How hard did Erik Daniels play at Princeton? Now compare them to how Bazely plays at the high school level? Unless that first list of guys were playing a completely overmatched team (and some of them did) they played with a high motor and filled up the stat sheet. Very different in all respects - those guys all put up numbers for multiple years at the HS level, didn't lose many games in their HS careers (DB 18-19 in his HS games played) and dominated on the AAU circuit. Bazely's biggest question mark - including at the D1 level - is his motor. Talent outside of his 3PT shooting (6 makes in 11 games at 33%) is unquestioned. His handle, size, vision should make him the runaway POY in the GMC and are clearly the reasons he is a high major recruit. This season we will see what his motor looks like - I would imagine a player who is 'all about the rings' would play pretty hard his senior year.
Outside of Kennard and Mayo none of the guys you listed were high level 5star guys. Kennard played hard and IMO Mayo did not. But that's an argument for another time. What I am saying to you is he isn't listed as the #9 player in the country due to his potential or measurables. Those rankings came from his AAU playing days and he plays a lot harder in those games than he does for Princeton.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 09-15-17, 10:49 AM
BusinessEnd BusinessEnd is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-29-02
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,104
BusinessEnd
Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Outside of Kennard and Mayo none of the guys you listed were high level 5star guys. Kennard played hard and IMO Mayo did not. But that's an argument for another time. What I am saying to you is he isn't listed as the #9 player in the country due to his potential or measurables. Those rankings came from his AAU playing days and he plays a lot harder in those games than he does for Princeton.
Going to have to agree to disagree and that's fine. I don't think he plays significantly harder in AAU (only saw him play 3 or 4 times in the spring/summer) than he does at Princeton (saw him play 4 or 5 games last season). Difference in AAU is that he is surrounded by high level players at every position and it allows him to showcase what he does best. At the HS level he isn't (not knocking Princeton's kids because I think they have a lot of good HS players) so coaches gameplan around him and he doesn't play hard enough to offset the added defensive attention. All of those guys I listed were 4/5 star recruits with many of the same offers DB has, got the same defensive attention in HS games as DB does and still managed to put up numbers/wins. I would love to see DB go up against Jaxson Hayes (3 star who is blowing up due to AAU)!
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 09-21-17, 12:02 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-11-13
Posts: 2,942
Philly_Cat is on a distinguished road
I've seen my fair share of high school players over the years that went on to play in the NBA, including Kobe Bryant who I watched play a ton in high school and summer league. I can't say that any of them weren't playing hard in high school. At times it can look like they aren't going hard because they are so much more advanced them everyone else on the court, but even when it looks like they aren't they still fill up the stat sheets. Looks can be deceiving.

But when someone looks like they aren't trying hard and the numbers tell the same story, it's probably safe to say they aren't trying hard. And if that's the case, like I said earlier, you could be looking at a potential problem for coaches down the road. Working hard only when you want to or went it's convenient for you is a recipe for disaster.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Last edited by Philly_Cat; 09-21-17 at 10:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OFFICIAL GMC 2017 Thread AJJ5 Football 598 09-25-17 09:22 AM
2017 fall early outlook werns63 Girls Soccer 144 08-10-17 11:41 AM
V2S Power Ratings SWO/MVA 2016/2017 vamp2syd Boys Basketball 13 06-26-17 03:29 PM
Who wins the GMC baseball title? 93 red ls Baseball 29 05-08-17 11:00 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz