Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Girls HS Sports > Girls Soccer

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-06-17, 05:53 PM
ratterbox ratterbox is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-23-09
Posts: 184
ratterbox is on a distinguished road
Referees???

If a HS player gets 2 yellow cards and is ejected from game does the team now have to play with 10??
What if player is on bench and gets a 2nd yellow or a red card does the team have to play with 10. Or would that go to the coach ?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-06-17, 07:11 PM
LE Hawks LE Hawks is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 12-04-13
Posts: 129
LE Hawks is on a distinguished road
I'll let a ref give you the official answer. But you can look at Page 26 in the meantime as it relates to Ohio HS soccer. HERE
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-07-17, 07:37 AM
soref soref is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-14-06
Posts: 375
soref is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratterbox View Post
If a HS player gets 2 yellow cards and is ejected from game does the team now have to play with 10??
What if player is on bench and gets a 2nd yellow or a red card does the team have to play with 10. Or would that go to the coach ?
A few years ago NFHS changed their rules on Subsequent Cautions in that the team did not have to reduce to 10 players but that has since been changed back to that the team does have to reduce to 10 players. That may be where the confusion on the rule is coming from.
The team is only required to reduce to 10 "players" when a "player" is ejected from the match. If a "bench personnel" or substitute receives a subsequent caution or a Red Card they are not allowed to enter the match and have to stay on the bench for supervision purposes unless they continue to cause issues.

Honestly, I liked when NFHS had changed to where the team did not have to reduce to 10. It allowed me to get rid of troublemakers and it wouldn't punish the entire team.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-07-17, 09:17 AM
soccerjunkie77 soccerjunkie77 is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-19-15
Posts: 4
soccerjunkie77 is on a distinguished road
On somewhat the same topic, heard that a keeper got a straight red last night for handling the ball outside the penalty box. It was always my understanding that a keeper outside the box is treated just like a field player. Shouldn't it just have been a free-kick from the spot she touched the ball?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-07-17, 09:40 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 02-10-16
Posts: 151
Conan73 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soref View Post
A few years ago NFHS changed their rules on Subsequent Cautions in that the team did not have to reduce to 10 players but that has since been changed back to that the team does have to reduce to 10 players. That may be where the confusion on the rule is coming from.
The team is only required to reduce to 10 "players" when a "player" is ejected from the match. If a "bench personnel" or substitute receives a subsequent caution or a Red Card they are not allowed to enter the match and have to stay on the bench for supervision purposes unless they continue to cause issues.

Honestly, I liked when NFHS had changed to where the team did not have to reduce to 10. It allowed me to get rid of troublemakers and it wouldn't punish the entire team.
why not simply follow FIFA rules like everyone else?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-07-17, 09:43 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 11-05-12
Posts: 1,448
buckshooter5 is on a distinguished road
Refs continue to call the games the way they want to see the game played, the rule book means nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-17, 09:50 AM
soref soref is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-14-06
Posts: 375
soref is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerjunkie77 View Post
On somewhat the same topic, heard that a keeper got a straight red last night for handling the ball outside the penalty box. It was always my understanding that a keeper outside the box is treated just like a field player. Shouldn't it just have been a free-kick from the spot she touched the ball?
"The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other
player outside the penalty area. Inside their penalty area, the goalkeeper
cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick or any related
sanction but can be guilty of handling offences that incur an indirect free kick."

"Sending-off offences
A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following
offences is sent off:
* denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)"

"Denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity
Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity by a deliberate handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."

"The following must be considered:
distance between the offence and the goal
general direction of the play
likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
location and number of defenders"

Goalkeeper came out of the Penalty Area and deliberately handled the ball which denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-07-17, 10:41 AM
soref soref is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-14-06
Posts: 375
soref is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan73 View Post
why not simply follow FIFA rules like everyone else?
Well, not everyone else follows FIFA rules.
Actually, this year the World Governing Body of soccer laws came from IFAB and not FIFA.
Then you have NFHS (USA High School), NISOA (USA Collegiate), NAIA (another USA Collegiate), SAY.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-07-17, 11:12 AM
jtk jtk is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-16-05
Location: BC>NVA>SLIDE
Posts: 6,530
jtk has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerjunkie77 View Post
On somewhat the same topic, heard that a keeper got a straight red last night for handling the ball outside the penalty box. It was always my understanding that a keeper outside the box is treated just like a field player. Shouldn't it just have been a free-kick from the spot she touched the ball?
i heard from my daughter that after called for the hand ball, she threw the ball, and then had some words with someone. not sure how accurate, but she was involved in the game. the fans had no idea what happened.

jtk
()
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-07-17, 11:44 AM
soccerjunkie77 soccerjunkie77 is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 08-19-15
Posts: 4
soccerjunkie77 is on a distinguished road
That would make a bit more sense. thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-08-17, 08:45 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 370
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soref View Post
Well, not everyone else follows FIFA rules.
Actually, this year the World Governing Body of soccer laws came from IFAB and not FIFA.
Then you have NFHS (USA High School), NISOA (USA Collegiate), NAIA (another USA Collegiate), SAY.
NAIA uses NISOA.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-08-17, 09:05 AM
2731 2731 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-10-16
Posts: 229
2731 is on a distinguished road
Also FIFA has been a member of IFAB since 1914.

IFAB has been making the rules since 1886.

But hey.... they're new.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-08-17, 02:07 PM
soref soref is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-14-06
Posts: 375
soref is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
NAIA uses NISOA.
For the most part yes, but they are not 100% the same.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-08-17, 02:11 PM
soref soref is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-14-06
Posts: 375
soref is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
Also FIFA has been a member of IFAB since 1914.

IFAB has been making the rules since 1886.

But hey.... they're new.
Never said that IFAB was new but I guess I should have said that the Laws were "published" by IFAB this year instead of FIFA as in the past.
FIFA would publish the LOTG with the authorization of the IFAB.

Point is though that there are many different sets of rules that are used throughout the USA.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-10-17, 05:47 PM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 11-05-12
Posts: 1,448
buckshooter5 is on a distinguished road
Refs continue to disappoint. Not sure what the answer is, and please do not say......become a ref yourself.....that statement has gotten old.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-11-17, 08:05 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 370
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by soref View Post
For the most part yes, but they are not 100% the same.
Yes, they are. NAIA uses the NCAA College Soccer rulebook. They use NISOA officials. Any conflicts with rules during an NAIA soccer match goes clear up to NCAA offices (if it can make it that far).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-11-17, 08:10 AM
soref soref is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-14-06
Posts: 375
soref is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshooter5 View Post
Refs continue to disappoint. Not sure what the answer is, and please do not say......become a ref yourself.....that statement has gotten old.
People may get tired of hearing that, and it's not the ONLY fix, but it is a relevant argument.
If the referee pool was larger to choose from then just by supply and demand the older or less skilled referees would begin to do less and less games.
Honestly, I think that it is less of asking the parents who complain to become refs and it is more of those parents encouraging their kids that have played or that are playing to become refs.
Each year the number of referees that quit are greater than the number of new referees. This is a trend that continues in almost every sport and there are many associations that are trying different tactics of reversing that trend but nothing has happened as of yet to get things to improve on the NFHS level.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-11-17, 10:46 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 11-05-12
Posts: 1,448
buckshooter5 is on a distinguished road
Maybe having weekend games and busing refs in, that way certain teams will not get homered on a consistent basis. Just a thought.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-12-17, 08:37 AM
Sports_Fan_ Sports_Fan_ is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 02-12-16
Posts: 77
Sports_Fan_ is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckshooter5 View Post
Refs continue to disappoint. Not sure what the answer is, and please do not say......become a ref yourself.....that statement has gotten old.
I totally agree Buck, everyone worried about DA killing high school soccer and the death of high school soccer is going to be horrible officiating! I've watched it the past 8yrs with my kids and it has gotten worse each year. Hamilton was playing Fairmont Saturday night and keeper misplayed a ball and from the look (and film) the ball goes into the net, the AR is 35yrds up the field and not even close to make a fair call! AR cannot make a fair call so the center who is further away signals NO GOAL! The coach said he was told by the official "he's just too old and will never make that run", "we do not have young quality officials". It's sad and not fair to the players and then to feel you get homered each time out is so sad for the kids busting their tails!

Offsides calls 5-7yrds missed, balls dribbled out of the back of end zone and back in another game with a different AR not close to position it's tough to watch! I think the officials should be evaluated and forced to watch themselves on film and I believe it would help. We hold players to high expectations but officials ehh they just roll out of bed in the fall and do high school games!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-12-17, 09:37 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 02-10-16
Posts: 151
Conan73 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
I totally agree Buck, everyone worried about DA killing high school soccer and the death of high school soccer is going to be horrible officiating! I've watched it the past 8yrs with my kids and it has gotten worse each year. Hamilton was playing Fairmont Saturday night and keeper misplayed a ball and from the look (and film) the ball goes into the net, the AR is 35yrds up the field and not even close to make a fair call! AR cannot make a fair call so the center who is further away signals NO GOAL! The coach said he was told by the official "he's just too old and will never make that run", "we do not have young quality officials". It's sad and not fair to the players and then to feel you get homered each time out is so sad for the kids busting their tails!

Offsides calls 5-7yrds missed, balls dribbled out of the back of end zone and back in another game with a different AR not close to position it's tough to watch! I think the officials should be evaluated and forced to watch themselves on film and I believe it would help. We hold players to high expectations but officials ehh they just roll out of bed in the fall and do high school games!
From what I've seen, the worst calls tend to involve physical play. High school refs tend to allow way too much physical play. Holding, body checking, arm extended pushing, etc are rarely (or inconsistently) called; thereby making the game more dangerous than it should be. Soccer is a contact sport, but (as with basketball), fouls are supposed to be called.

The other mistake that I've seen is with "hand balls." There is no "hand ball" foul. Instead, its intentional use of the hands. The rules allow for the ball to bounce off a players arms or hands. Instead, its a penalty if the player's arm or hand moves towards the ball. I see this call made in error in almost every game I've watched.

The last thing I've noticed is that a number of refs are not physically fit. I've seen assistant referees that are out of position for offsides calls because they can't run up and down the sideline. I've seen where the center ref misses or blows calls because he is way behind the play because he doesn't run with the play.

With all this said, I do agree with a previous post. There is a shortage of refs. People are not applying and/or they are quitting. So, we end up with a greater percentage of bad refs.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-12-17, 07:28 PM
5x26 5x26 is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: 05-22-17
Posts: 36
5x26 is on a distinguished road
If parents and coaches want better refs than stop harassing them.

That is why the bulk of quality refs won't do high school games. Coaches throwing fits or belittling refs on the sideline when his or her kid gets a shoulder or other trifling play, but commends their own player when they do it.

Parents losing their minds and screaming offsides when the ball is nowhere near the offsides player, yelling or in many cases freaking out for yellow/red cards after a great clean tackle. And you know throw in direction could cause an aneurysm from some at anytime. Because you can see it all way better from the stands as far as 400' to 800' away than the center or AR who's usually within a few feet and has a better understanding of the dynamic between kids. Making threats to refs and following them to their cars. It gets really bad in certain socioeconomic areas and teams with lower quality players.

Throw in many AD's not wanting to pay the ref's and delaying payment if they even ever get it.

I'd love to fill my off days and nights with High School games but *&^% that. I'll stick with some quality league club games and college where "most" coaches are respectful and the parents understand the game and usually stay polite. I work really hard to make sure to call a fair and accurate game, and I push my AR's to be 100% accurate on offsides because it can be a true game changer.

So the good, younger, more fit refs quit or stay away from high school. Too much crap for what amounts these days to a tank of gas in pay. Just a sad reality.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-12-17, 08:24 PM
phatneff phatneff is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-08-04
Posts: 719
phatneff is on a distinguished road
For the last time.......it's OFFSIDE and not OFFSIDES!! Perfect example of why you think referees suck. YOU DON'T KNOW THE LAWS OF THE GAME!!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-12-17, 08:56 PM
2731 2731 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-10-16
Posts: 229
2731 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatneff View Post
For the last time.......it's OFFSIDE and not OFFSIDES!! Perfect example of why you think referees suck. YOU DON'T KNOW THE LAWS OF THE GAME!!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Grammar policing does not improve officiating.

It's telling that you think it does.

High School refs suck. It's measurable, recordable and unavoidable.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-12-17, 09:06 PM
2731 2731 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-10-16
Posts: 229
2731 is on a distinguished road
There's a "Cool Guy" posting is a similar thread on the boys side. He gets it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-13-17, 08:09 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 370
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
Grammar policing does not improve officiating.

It's telling that you think it does.

High School refs suck. It's measurable, recordable and unavoidable.
Grammar policing does not do much on a message board, but proper terminology does help a coach and/or player communicate effectively to referees. Referees do not want to talk about calls if a coach/player doesn't know what they're talking about.

Not knowing the LOTG does nothing to help protest one's case. So, use "offside," "handling," "dangerous play," and a hoard of other proper terms. Once that happens from players and coaches [and parents] then we'll continue to see soccer get better for all those around.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-13-17, 08:22 AM
2731 2731 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-10-16
Posts: 229
2731 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Grammar policing does not do much on a message board, but proper terminology does help a coach and/or player communicate effectively to referees. Referees do not want to talk about calls if a coach/player doesn't know what they're talking about.

Not knowing the LOTG does nothing to help protest one's case. So, use "offside," "handling," "dangerous play," and a hoard of other proper terms. Once that happens from players and coaches [and parents] then we'll continue to see soccer get better for all those around.
I certainly agree that knowledge of the LOTG for all those involved, players, coaches, parents, AND referees is of utmost importance and would improve things a lot.

But... I think "offsides", "handball" and "came through the back studs up" are plenty effective enough communication. Insisting on the exact nomenclature is unnecessarily pedantic. And that pedantic stance typifies the worst referees.

EDIT*** This is the "Cool Guy" post I was trying to reference earlier...

http://www.yappi.com/forums/showpost...9&postcount=23
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-13-17, 09:39 AM
Matt Goeller Matt Goeller is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 11-29-12
Posts: 71
Matt Goeller is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x26 View Post
If parents and coaches want better refs than stop harassing them.

That is why the bulk of quality refs won't do high school games. Coaches throwing fits or belittling refs on the sideline when his or her kid gets a shoulder or other trifling play, but commends their own player when they do it.

Parents losing their minds and screaming offsides when the ball is nowhere near the offsides player, yelling or in many cases freaking out for yellow/red cards after a great clean tackle. And you know throw in direction could cause an aneurysm from some at anytime. Because you can see it all way better from the stands as far as 400' to 800' away than the center or AR who's usually within a few feet and has a better understanding of the dynamic between kids. Making threats to refs and following them to their cars. It gets really bad in certain socioeconomic areas and teams with lower quality players.

Throw in many AD's not wanting to pay the ref's and delaying payment if they even ever get it.

I'd love to fill my off days and nights with High School games but *&^% that. I'll stick with some quality league club games and college where "most" coaches are respectful and the parents understand the game and usually stay polite. I work really hard to make sure to call a fair and accurate game, and I push my AR's to be 100% accurate on offsides because it can be a true game changer.

So the good, younger, more fit refs quit or stay away from high school. Too much crap for what amounts these days to a tank of gas in pay. Just a sad reality.
This is a very honest and IMO accurate assessment of the current situation on the topic. It is particularly accurate in the assessment of parents/fans understanding of the rules of the game and the very consistent level of abusive, angry language doled out in their direction on a consistence basis.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-13-17, 02:20 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-20-08
Location: not Ohio
Posts: 370
belied dat is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
I certainly agree that knowledge of the LOTG for all those involved, players, coaches, parents, AND referees is of utmost importance and would improve things a lot.

But... I think "offsides", "handball" and "came through the back studs up" are plenty effective enough communication. Insisting on the exact nomenclature is unnecessarily pedantic. And that pedantic stance typifies the worst referees.

EDIT*** This is the "Cool Guy" post I was trying to reference earlier...

http://www.yappi.com/forums/showpost...9&postcount=23
I don't want to go back and forth on it, but while you believe it is effective enough, it's not the proper calls that should be made.

"High kick" is heard almost as regularly as "offsides." It is just not right. If "high kick" were a call, then anytime the foot would be raised at waist or above should be whistled. "Kicking on the ground" is in the same category. No, it's dangerous play. It's not hard to get it right.

I often relate it to basketball with a lot of fans (and even players). You hear "over the back" all the time from fans and coaches. It is simply not a rule. If it were, then any time a rebound was grabbed by ANY player that was at the back of another player then there is a foul called.

Proper terminology muddies the water and often makes the players, coaches, and fans absolutely obtuse to actual LOTG. With interscholastic [and intercollegiate] sports being tied to academic institutions, it is essential that players are educated in their sport's rules.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-13-17, 04:36 PM
Matt Goeller Matt Goeller is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 11-29-12
Posts: 71
Matt Goeller is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
I don't want to go back and forth on it, but while you believe it is effective enough, it's not the proper calls that should be made.

"High kick" is heard almost as regularly as "offsides." It is just not right. If "high kick" were a call, then anytime the foot would be raised at waist or above should be whistled. "Kicking on the ground" is in the same category. No, it's dangerous play. It's not hard to get it right.

I often relate it to basketball with a lot of fans (and even players). You hear "over the back" all the time from fans and coaches. It is simply not a rule. If it were, then any time a rebound was grabbed by ANY player that was at the back of another player then there is a foul called.

Proper terminology muddies the water and often makes the players, coaches, and fans absolutely obtuse to actual LOTG. With interscholastic [and intercollegiate] sports being tied to academic institutions, it is essential that players are educated in their sport's rules.
Some validity in this, I think,
though I believe in the last paragraph you meant "improper terminology" muddies the water.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-13-17, 04:55 PM
simkon simkon is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 10-27-11
Posts: 869
simkon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratterbox View Post
If a HS player gets 2 yellow cards and is ejected from game does the team now have to play with 10??
What if player is on bench and gets a 2nd yellow or a red card does the team have to play with 10. Or would that go to the coach ?
All players on the pitch who are receive two yellow cards or one red card are sent off and may not be replaced. All reserves on the bench who receive two yellow cards or one red card are no longer eligible to enter the game and must remain on the bench and may not under any circumstances step onto the pitch.

As far as the keeper handling the ball outside of the designated area, I would have immediately issued a red card if in my judgement the action may have prevented a goal. If the handling was 100% clear it was not deliberate or if there was no way a goal could have been scored then no booking would be made.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How should HS soccer be refereed? ccalum Boys Soccer 41 10-04-17 06:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz