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  #91  
Old 02-19-19, 09:38 PM
Barbershoptalk Barbershoptalk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troyboy73 View Post
I hope they get Stokes from Minster.
I donít know much personally about Stokes, but Iíve obviously heard heís very successful up at Minster. I have heard from more then one source, that heís a my way or the highway kinda guy and tends to act as if heís the smartest guy in room. That doesnít always fit everywhere. When it does, itís a homerun. When it doesnít, it can be a complete mess. Not sure how that would fit with administrators and parents? I guess if you win enough, no one will care.
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  #92  
Old 02-19-19, 09:42 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
Iím happy with taking a current member on staff unless Meeks or Carter apply. Then I want them.
I meant stokes I donít know why I said Meeks.
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  #93  
Old 02-19-19, 09:45 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Barbershoptalk View Post
I donít know much personally about Stokes, but Iíve obviously heard heís very successful up at Minster. I have heard from more then one source, that heís a my way or the highway kinda guy and tends to act as if heís the smartest guy in room. That doesnít always fit everywhere. When it does, itís a homerun. When it doesnít, it can be a complete mess. Not sure how that would fit with administrators and parents? I guess if you win enough, no one will care.
If Troy wants to win, they will seek out Stokes and those things should not matter to them.

If
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  #94  
Old 02-19-19, 10:17 PM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
If Troy wants to win, they will seek out Stokes and those things should not matter to them.

If
Word on the street is stokes pulled out last time because troy was not willing to come up on some of his requests. That isnít going to change now since not much different has been done since then. I could be wrong but Troy has some more important things on their docket right now than appeasing to him. Heís established as a good coach, but minster and troy are different communities, you try to run your ship Ďthe good ol hard wayí and you may run talent off. That being said Iíve also heard him speak about their discussions before practice and if theyíve got a good one going theyíll just cancel practice. Iím all for connections and relationships but skipping practice doesnít cut it IMO.
So I think he may pass on Troy this time.
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  #95  
Old 02-19-19, 11:06 PM
Tipp of the Town Tipp of the Town is offline
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Not sure troy is the right place for a my way or highway kinda guy. Not sure why coach strokes would want to leave a good thing in Minster.
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  #96  
Old 02-20-19, 08:05 AM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tipp of the Town View Post
Not sure troy is the right place for a my way or highway kinda guy. Not sure why coach strokes would want to leave a good thing in Minster.
Steve Nolan had that approach for 30 years at Troy and was successful and beloved.
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  #97  
Old 02-20-19, 08:46 AM
TheBenchwarmer TheBenchwarmer is offline
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Nothing wrong with holding people accountable. If you dont do it to them as kids and as high schoolers what chance do they have in the real world? In the workplace we are all held accountable. As parents and spouses we are held accountable. If it that weeds out the me guys and bad teammates what’s the problem? People get too caught up in how many kids a program has. Those are just numbers. What’s important is how many kids are actively engaged in the program. 45 actively engaged and plugged in kids is better than 100 Jimmy and Joes standing around, sometimes showing up, and being concerned more about themselves then the team. Building a program that way gives it sustained success but it takes time. Wins won’t come immediately but within 3-5 years you will start seeing the fruits of your labor. Too many people want instant gratification and that is so short sighted.

Last edited by TheBenchwarmer; 02-20-19 at 10:12 AM.
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  #98  
Old 02-20-19, 08:50 AM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
Steve Nolan had that approach for 30 years at Troy and was successful and beloved.
While that may be true, everything including Admin was much different then. Nolan came in young and built stability through some good classes. He won early which always allows for a loose leash.
When admin changed enough he was out and his type of coach faded away. Even his successor (Brewer) who ran a very tight ship was pushed out by admin because he wasnít PR enough. If he would have won a couple more games that last year (which would have been impossible, we all saw that class) then maybe heíd still be around as HC.
Iím not saying tough love doesnít have its place and can be very valuable, itís very appropriate some times. I just donít see another Nolan touching troy for a long time because of what Matt Burgbacher brought culture wise.
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  #99  
Old 02-20-19, 09:17 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeartheRooster View Post
While that may be true, everything including Admin was much different then. Nolan came in young and built stability through some good classes. He won early which always allows for a loose leash.
When admin changed enough he was out and his type of coach faded away. Even his successor (Brewer) who ran a very tight ship was pushed out by admin because he wasnít PR enough. If he would have won a couple more games that last year (which would have been impossible, we all saw that class) then maybe heíd still be around as HC.
Iím not saying tough love doesnít have its place and can be very valuable, itís very appropriate some times. I just donít see another Nolan touching troy for a long time because of what Matt Burgbacher brought culture wise.
what did Burgbacher bring culture wise?
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  #100  
Old 02-20-19, 09:40 AM
StSebastian StSebastian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeartheRooster View Post
While that may be true, everything including Admin was much different then. Nolan came in young and built stability through some good classes. He won early which always allows for a loose leash.
When admin changed enough he was out and his type of coach faded away. Even his successor (Brewer) who ran a very tight ship was pushed out by admin because he wasn’t PR enough. If he would have won a couple more games that last year (which would have been impossible, we all saw that class) then maybe he’d still be around as HC.
I’m not saying tough love doesn’t have its place and can be very valuable, it’s very appropriate some times. I just don’t see another Nolan touching troy for a long time because of what Matt Burgbacher brought culture wise.
There is certainly place for tough love... but too often the "old school" coach gets too caught up in the former part of that and forgets the latter... run a tight ship, have high demands, set difficult but not impossible expectations, and respect everyone in the program. Kids can tell the difference between a hard @$$ that wants to berate kids into doing it "my way or the high way" because that's the way they were coached in "the good ol' days" and someone who preaches accountability, respect, trust, brotherhood, and demands commitment to a greater good... real life values.

What people fail to realize is that when done correctly, the kids will weed themselves out... they are not "run off." The cream will rise, and those who "can't hack it," are NOT made to feel like they are worthless; rather, a program with a true leader will respect them enough to tell them that while football (or any sport for that matter) may not be for them they can still contribute in a way that supports the program as a whole should they want to be a part of the process. If they choose to walk away at that point, that is not necessarily a bad thing if it is done mutually and respectfully... no matter how TOUGH it may be. That is tough love and the sign of every TRULY successful program. The Goodwin's, Otten's, Stoke's, etc of our small corner of the world understand that whether people want to admit it or not. When given a chance, that, among other tangibles of the program and community, creates sustained success.

Burgbacher is learning that more and more and has a significantly improved approach with his athletes compared to 8 years ago as a young couch. I think every young coach has to find their way and eventually they become great if they keep that focus. He has some of Charlie's fire and force in him (that is not a knock, its one of his best qualities, albeit probably diminishing in older age) but he is also in tune with the psyche of today's athlete. The combination of the 2 can produce a true "tough love" type of environment that both commands AND delivers respect, trust, and commitment.
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  #101  
Old 02-20-19, 10:18 AM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeartheRooster View Post
While that may be true, everything including Admin was much different then. Nolan came in young and built stability through some good classes. He won early which always allows for a loose leash.
When admin changed enough he was out and his type of coach faded away. Even his successor (Brewer) who ran a very tight ship was pushed out by admin because he wasnít PR enough. If he would have won a couple more games that last year (which would have been impossible, we all saw that class) then maybe heíd still be around as HC.
Iím not saying tough love doesnít have its place and can be very valuable, itís very appropriate some times. I just donít see another Nolan touching troy for a long time because of what Matt Burgbacher brought culture wise.
This is why I'm pushing for Carter so much. He demands respect and gets it. He's not a pushover but he also connects well to the players. He has a nice combination of running a tight ship and being a players coach. He also has one thing many don't... he has done it at a very high level and can help people maximize potential to reach their personal goals. The guy is better with kids than almost anyone ive seen.
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  #102  
Old 02-20-19, 10:38 AM
StSebastian StSebastian is offline
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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
This is why I'm pushing for Carter so much. He demands respect and gets it. He's not a pushover but he also connects well to the players. He has a nice combination of running a tight ship and being a players coach. He also has one thing many don't... he has done it at a very high level and can help people maximize potential to reach their personal goals. The guy is better with kids than almost anyone ive seen.
I do not have much knowledge of Carter but anyone that can take NW to the playoffs.... is the high school equivalent of Don Shula in the right situation. Hire him now and don't waste time.
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  #103  
Old 02-20-19, 10:45 AM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Originally Posted by StSebastian View Post
I do not have much knowledge of Carter but anyone that can take NW to the playoffs.... is the high school equivalent of Don Shula in the right situation. Hire him now and don't waste time.
Carter played at Troy in the early to mid 2000's football and basketball. One of the best athletes to ever walk the halls at Troy. Had d1 offers to play both basketball and football. Played at Wisconsin where he was an all big 10 player. Originally was going to do both at Wisconsin but ended up just doing football.

Brother Cris (yes that Cris) played in the NFL, and brother Butch played in the NBA and coached in the NBA.

He runs the Lincoln Center in Troy and I doubt he will ever leave. Only thing hurting him from getting a lot of jobs is that he's not a teacher. It's not likely that he will get Troy's job either but I sure hope he does.
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  #104  
Old 02-20-19, 11:03 AM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
what did Burgbacher bring culture wise?
In my opinion Burgbacher brought both worlds together and preached all the things Stokes (Sebastian) is talking about. Accountability, love, respect, positivity, etc.
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  #105  
Old 02-20-19, 11:19 AM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by StSebastian View Post
There is certainly place for tough love... but too often the "old school" coach gets too caught up in the former part of that and forgets the latter... run a tight ship, have high demands, set difficult but not impossible expectations, and respect everyone in the program. Kids can tell the difference between a hard @$$ that wants to berate kids into doing it "my way or the high way" because that's the way they were coached in "the good ol' days" and someone who preaches accountability, respect, trust, brotherhood, and demands commitment to a greater good... real life values.

What people fail to realize is that when done correctly, the kids will weed themselves out... they are not "run off." The cream will rise, and those who "can't hack it," are NOT made to feel like they are worthless; rather, a program with a true leader will respect them enough to tell them that while football (or any sport for that matter) may not be for them they can still contribute in a way that supports the program as a whole should they want to be a part of the process. If they choose to walk away at that point, that is not necessarily a bad thing if it is done mutually and respectfully... no matter how TOUGH it may be. That is tough love and the sign of every TRULY successful program. The Goodwin's, Otten's, Stoke's, etc of our small corner of the world understand that whether people want to admit it or not. When given a chance, that, among other tangibles of the program and community, creates sustained success.

Burgbacher is learning that more and more and has a significantly improved approach with his athletes compared to 8 years ago as a young couch. I think every young coach has to find their way and eventually they become great if they keep that focus. He has some of Charlie's fire and force in him (that is not a knock, its one of his best qualities, albeit probably diminishing in older age) but he is also in tune with the psyche of today's athlete. The combination of the 2 can produce a true "tough love" type of environment that both commands AND delivers respect, trust, and commitment.
I cant disagree with most of what you said. Football is definitely a combination of both 'old school' yelling, screaming, challenging, etc. and Love, respect, kindness, accountability..but its all about tone and approach. For example, Saban has preached for years, the way to coach guys up is telling them 'that's not how we finish here', instead of jumping a dude for cutting things short. Dabo clearly has got the love and kindness thing down. Now, these guys are obviously on the end of the spectrum when you compare them to hot heads that go wild on refs on Friday nights, or jump a kids @$$ for making a wrong read in practice and end up making a scene...so the kid shuts down.

I also agree with your statement about most kids run themselves off if your culture is built on the right kinds of foundation. But what we have to realize today is that kids haven't necessarily changed. WE think they have as adults but really we've become different leaders overall and allowed for most of the inadequacies of children to come out in the forms of laziness, no mental toughness, and other lethargic behaviors, etc.

I think we overall I agree with your statements and could not have said it better. The only thing I'd say is for players to be able to see the end team goal, sometimes they need to see the benefits for themselves first, which is a hard thing to balance for each individual. The mentally tough ones dont need that kind of coaching because they get it and have perspective.
As far as Charlie, I'm still not a buyer. Ive watched him for quite some time at Tipp (from a far and mostly through rumor of parents/staff) and recently at Troy. Years ago he got away with screaming, yelling, and making scenes...kids may not have taken it personal, just like most didnt. At Troy he wasn't able to do that but he sure tried at first. Over the last four years I think most people in Troy saw him change on the sidelines year after year and eventually become pretty silent while others continued to work around him.
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  #106  
Old 02-20-19, 11:21 AM
freedom_isnt_free freedom_isnt_free is offline
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To summarize everything here: Troy had it and blew it. Should have kept Burgbacher in a spot that he couldn’t leave because no deal short of college could compete. When you have that guy you do everything you can to keep him. Troy administration got lazy and the program is going to implode over the next few seasons. Troy just got more vulnerable while Butler and Tipp are becoming more and more the threat.
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  #107  
Old 02-20-19, 11:24 AM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
Carter played at Troy in the early to mid 2000's football and basketball. One of the best athletes to ever walk the halls at Troy. Had d1 offers to play both basketball and football. Played at Wisconsin where he was an all big 10 player. Originally was going to do both at Wisconsin but ended up just doing football.

Brother Cris (yes that Cris) played in the NFL, and brother Butch played in the NBA and coached in the NBA.

He runs the Lincoln Center in Troy and I doubt he will ever leave. Only thing hurting him from getting a lot of jobs is that he's not a teacher. It's not likely that he will get Troy's job either but I sure hope he does.

I think if Carter applies there will definitely be interest from the players and he'd be around the age of most the staff. Who knows if their personalities would mesh but he has been around the block at bit and worked his way through some things.
I think one big thing for him is the negative word around town that would undoubtedly get brought up in the interview process. I don't see him as a true candidate for some of the reasons you mentioned. He sounds good on paper but he has too much against him, like not being an educator and running the Lincoln Center just to name a few.
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  #108  
Old 02-20-19, 11:29 AM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by freedom_isnt_free View Post
To summarize everything here: Troy had it and blew it. Should have kept Burgbacher in a spot that he couldnít leave because no deal short of college could compete. When you have that guy you do everything you can to keep him. Troy administration got lazy and the program is going to implode over the next few seasons. Troy just got more vulnerable while Butler and Tipp are becoming more and more the threat.
Eh...the well doesn't seem dry my friend. Tipp will be a max 5-7 win team each year with the occasional 8. There's is no way they catch Troy, Butler, Sidney, Xenia, and Piqua in the same year. Maybe 2 of those...I'd be hard pressed to say 3.
Butler will be better overtime, but they sure did lose a lot last year. You'll see if Puckett can earn his check this year.
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  #109  
Old 02-20-19, 11:38 AM
freedom_isnt_free freedom_isnt_free is offline
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Originally Posted by FeartheRooster View Post
Butler will be better overtime, but they sure did lose a lot last year. You'll see if Puckett can earn his check this year.
He makes the playoffs this year he deserves a statue in the south end zone.
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  #110  
Old 02-20-19, 11:45 AM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Originally Posted by freedom_isnt_free View Post
To summarize everything here: Troy had it and blew it. Should have kept Burgbacher in a spot that he couldnít leave because no deal short of college could compete. When you have that guy you do everything you can to keep him. Troy administration got lazy and the program is going to implode over the next few seasons. Troy just got more vulnerable while Butler and Tipp are becoming more and more the threat.
Lol I gotta remember this quote for next season and then post the final score of each of those 2 games. You act like 25-0 over butler and 49-14 over Tipp is going to be made up by a coach.
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  #111  
Old 02-20-19, 11:57 AM
AMVET1947 AMVET1947 is offline
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The question is does administration want to go inside or outside? Which has more pros/cons and which is less of a risk?. I would assume one or all three of the young guys applied who are on staff now. Wright, Merkert, and Gress. Is at least one of those ready for the job? That’s the question.
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  #112  
Old 02-20-19, 12:16 PM
TippIsGreat TippIsGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by FeartheRooster View Post
Eh...the well doesn't seem dry my friend. Tipp will be a max 5-7 win team each year with the occasional 8. There's is no way they catch Troy, Butler, Sidney, Xenia, and Piqua in the same year. Maybe 2 of those...I'd be hard pressed to say 3.
Butler will be better overtime, but they sure did lose a lot last year. You'll see if Puckett can earn his check this year.
Tippís floor in this new league is 6-4 year in and year out
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  #113  
Old 02-20-19, 12:27 PM
TippIsGreat TippIsGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by TroyTrojan05 View Post
Lol I gotta remember this quote for next season and then post the final score of each of those 2 games. You act like 25-0 over butler and 49-14 over Tipp is going to be made up by a coach.
You act like Troy doesnít lose Jackson, Bishop, Klopfenstein, both Shoopís, Monroe, Burton, Niswonger, Collett, Jones, Blair, Adams and Feltner Thatís 11 of their top 13 tacklers, their star running back, tight end and top 3 receivers. Troy returns their QB Siler and only 2 players with more than 20 tackles last year.
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  #114  
Old 02-20-19, 12:32 PM
freedom_isnt_free freedom_isnt_free is offline
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Originally Posted by TippIsGreat View Post
You act like Troy doesnít lose Jackson, Bishop, Klopfenstein, both Shoopís, Monroe, Burton, Niswonger, Collett, Jones, Blair, Adams and Feltner Thatís 11 of their top 13 tacklers, their star running back, tight end and top 3 receivers. Troy returns their QB Siler and only 2 players with more than 20 tackles last year.
Exactly! They lost the Burgbachers and arguably one of the best overall classes in 20 years. Iím not saying they fall off and go 1-9 this year just saying things are going to rapidly decline in my opinion.
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  #115  
Old 02-20-19, 01:09 PM
FeartheRooster FeartheRooster is offline
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Originally Posted by TippIsGreat View Post
Tippís floor in this new league is 6-4 year in and year out
Go back to your sandbox please. Aside from Greentucky, West Carrollton, Fairborn, and Stebbins, Tipp is batteling for 5 or 6 wins a season. They wonít beat any of the other teams consistently year in and year out. Let me remind you that Fairborn had their number twice already. So thatís your level of competition.
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  #116  
Old 02-20-19, 01:12 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Troy will go 8-2 at worst next year.
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  #117  
Old 02-20-19, 01:20 PM
troyboy73 troyboy73 is offline
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Troy has a lot f players coming back that saw action on 2nd and 3rd team in blow out wins. One of those coming over Tipp. Several different games they saw playing time.
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  #118  
Old 02-20-19, 01:25 PM
TippIsGreat TippIsGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by FeartheRooster View Post
Go back to your sandbox please. Aside from Greentucky, West Carrollton, Fairborn, and Stebbins, Tipp is batteling for 5 or 6 wins a season. They wonít beat any of the other teams consistently year in and year out. Let me remind you that Fairborn had their number twice already. So thatís your level of competition.
Putting Sidney, Xenia and Butler ahead of Tipp is laughable. Troy an Piqua are definitely ahead of Tipp. Besides that Tipp, and Butler are tier 2 then Xenia and Sidney tier 3 then the rest are the bottom feeders.
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  #119  
Old 02-20-19, 01:27 PM
TippIsGreat TippIsGreat is offline
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The only team Tipp hasn’t beaten in the past 4 seasons is Troy. Tipp hasn’t played Xenia
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  #120  
Old 02-20-19, 01:28 PM
TippIsGreat TippIsGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by freedom_isnt_free View Post
Exactly! They lost the Burgbachers and arguably one of the best overall classes in 20 years. Iím not saying they fall off and go 1-9 this year just saying things are going to rapidly decline in my opinion.
Troy isnít going to rapidly decline but they arenít going to be head and shoulders above everyone else like they have been
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