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  #31  
Old 03-08-19, 03:45 PM
flash18 flash18 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_raider32 View Post
How many of your Freshmen played in the Playoffs last season? I understand a program like CM probably doesn't need Freshmen to be successful on Friday Nights... just curious how many of them were ready for Friday Nights.
We had a nice skilled freshman that played way bigger than what he looked. This kid was a ball hawk on special teams and exciting to watch on returns. He was undersized this year and could not have been an every down back but myself like many others would have loved to see this kid get about 5-8 touches a game in the backfield. However, with the strength of schedule the freshman played I believe a certain coach was more concerned with keeping them undefeated than letting this kid get some touches on Friday nights.
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  #32  
Old 03-08-19, 04:15 PM
I love cheeseburgers I love cheeseburgers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash18 View Post
We had a nice skilled freshman that played way bigger than what he looked. This kid was a ball hawk on special teams and exciting to watch on returns. He was undersized this year and could not have been an every down back but myself like many others would have loved to see this kid get about 5-8 touches a game in the backfield. However, with the strength of schedule the freshman played I believe a certain coach was more concerned with keeping them undefeated than letting this kid get some touches on Friday nights.
Would that be the same coach that went from jv to the freshman team so he could coach his son?
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  #33  
Old 03-08-19, 05:13 PM
HighSchoolisOver HighSchoolisOver is offline
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Originally Posted by triple option View Post
Massie did lose a little size but will be faster as a unit upfront.... there's plenty on the sideline waiting their turn.



Freshman team is quick, and they have good size for being just freshman. With 30+ kids in that class on the roster i'm sure a few will sprout up. What i like is they breath football several ditched winter and spring sports to be in strength and conditioning labs.


Serpico and BigKat you are spot on! On a thread about schools having a competitive 10 game schedule and we got some JO advocating 15 year olds being “Single sport athletes”. Give me a break! That is exactly the short sightedness that believes keep doing the same thing and you will get different results.

Good luck coaching that specialist instead of developing an athlete and focusing on a single team instead of a winning Varsity while improving the overall program.
Here come the Spears of “Massie has become a legacy under Coach Dan”. We do have a fantastic motivator in McSurley who achieved 2 titles, - no doubt, but has been hampered by placing trust in single methods.

There are student athletes in all 4 classes, so if they condition and develop leaders over stand-outs and have overcome difficult opponents they may win on Friday nights instead of Saturdays.


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  #34  
Old 03-08-19, 06:34 PM
PeterDragon PeterDragon is offline
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They have done plenty of winning on Friday night's the last twenty years.
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  #35  
Old 03-08-19, 06:44 PM
triple option triple option is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighSchoolisOver View Post
Serpico and BigKat you are spot on! On a thread about schools having a competitive 10 game schedule and we got some JO advocating 15 year olds being “Single sport athletes”. Give me a break! That is exactly the short sightedness that believes keep doing the same thing and you will get different results.

Good luck coaching that specialist instead of developing an athlete and focusing on a single team instead of a winning Varsity while improving the overall program.
Here come the Spears of “Massie has become a legacy under Coach Dan”. We do have a fantastic motivator in McSurley who achieved 2 titles, - no doubt, but has been hampered by placing trust in single methods.

There are student athletes in all 4 classes, so if they condition and develop leaders over stand-outs and have overcome difficult opponents they may win on Friday nights instead of Saturdays.


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yeah, if that short sightedness brings 3 state appearances in 7 yrs this JO will take it. I've seen nothing that shows a 3 sport athlete is better than a single sport. I personally could give a crap less about any of that, what i like to watch is a athlete or any kid that decides to dedicate himself to a goal he/she wants to achieve and puts his heart and soul into it, and watching where it may take him or her.

You sound like a bitter Dad who's still dwelling over a loss 4 months ago, maybe London was just better than we were, from what i've heard they have a top notch strength and condition program and their kids looked like it.

As far as my commenting on a thread about "having a competitive 10 game schedule" i gave my OPINION on that and was adding some OPINION to other questions, that is if that's ok with you?!
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  #36  
Old 03-08-19, 09:33 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by triple option View Post
yeah, if that short sightedness brings 3 state appearances in 7 yrs this JO will take it. I've seen nothing that shows a 3 sport athlete is better than a single sport. I personally could give a crap less about any of that, what i like to watch is a athlete or any kid that decides to dedicate himself to a goal he/she wants to achieve and puts his heart and soul into it, and watching where it may take him or her.

You sound like a bitter Dad who's still dwelling over a loss 4 months ago, maybe London was just better than we were, from what i've heard they have a top notch strength and condition program and their kids looked like it.

As far as my commenting on a thread about "having a competitive 10 game schedule" i gave my OPINION on that and was adding some OPINION to other questions, that is if that's ok with you?!
Maybe if they were more well rounded athletes they would have more success than just state appearances......
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  #37  
Old 03-08-19, 09:45 PM
triple option triple option is offline
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2 for 3 in state appearances isn't too bad i can live with that

The other 20 freshman are getting "well rounded" playing winter and spring sports. Only a handful are 100% committed to year long football training, so everybody can relax.
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  #38  
Old 03-09-19, 05:39 PM
HighSchoolisOver HighSchoolisOver is offline
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Originally Posted by triple option View Post
2 for 3 in state appearances isn't too bad i can live with that

The other 20 freshman are getting "well rounded" playing winter and spring sports. Only a handful are 100% committed to year long football training, so everybody can relax.

Sounds like someone had a tripleNERVE exposed??!!
Opinions are free for all to Share. Catch your breath and type away, it’s healthy.

3 state appearances in 23 years of leadership is commendable, a winning record of over 220 is even more so. But when the stated goal is to WIN state that is different- don’t confuse activity with results.

London loss was having a substitute coach take “his eye off the prize”. No way London was “a better” team by loosing to Wyoming to the same level Massie beat Wyoming 12 months prior.

The state loss to Stubenville with a 1 score difference in 4th was a result of the same relaxed play calling as in the 1st. No urgency, no creativity (tight end pass TD previously). After the onside KO, still nothing changed.

This link may be worth reading for objectivity and I believe the last sentence is the most important IF the actual goal for competition is to go BEYOND High School, when it’s over. If just being present is the goal, enjoy the smell.

https://www.nsr-inc.com/scouting-new...port-athletes/



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  #39  
Old 03-09-19, 08:10 PM
PeterDragon PeterDragon is offline
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Commendable? Are you kidding me? 3 state appearances with two titles is something 90 % of HS coaches will never do.
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  #40  
Old 03-10-19, 08:46 AM
flash18 flash18 is offline
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Definitely a great program and have consistently won games and made playoff runs. However with that said I believe that back to back state title teams were 29-1 and were loaded loaded loaded with talent. Correct me if I am wrong but I think their only loss was on the road at Desales and we got stuffed inside the 10 twice. These teams had the player of the year on offense and player of the year on defense along with many many other studs. I guess my point is I think we could have comprised a coaching staff of yappi posters and had success with those teams.

In my opinion I think highschool is over is saying that it is the lack of coaching and lack of adjustments whether it be personnel changes or play calling on the teams that are were not as talented as the 12 and 13 squads is where the problem lies. In years past I continue to see defenses load the box and sell out to stop the run with little or no adjustment by our offense coordinator. In recent years we have had 6"6 tight ends that can run and move and I can count on one hand how many times they were targeted in the passing game. Simple adjustments that could have opened up the running game.

Obviously when we were unable to run the ball effectively there seemed to be no backup plan offensively. With that said the continued use of a pee wee reverse that only works against teams like East Clinton or Miami Trace was not the answer for a big play against teams that were competitive. I can recall times when Massie teams of the past were down 2-3 scores and having to rely on the pass and offensively we continued to send out 1-2receiver routes while continuing to run play action. I am no rocket scientist but if you have only rushed for 50-80 yards the whole game it's pretty obvious the play action is irrelevant.

In closing this is a great football school that has had success but I really believe this program has left a few state championship appearances on the table that maybe could have happened with some open mindedness. Just my opinion.
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  #41  
Old 03-10-19, 11:57 AM
triple option triple option is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighSchoolisOver View Post
Sounds like someone had a tripleNERVE exposed??!!
Opinions are free for all to Share. Catch your breath and type away, it’s healthy.

3 state appearances in 23 years of leadership is commendable, a winning record of over 220 is even more so. But when the stated goal is to WIN state that is different- don’t confuse activity with results.

London loss was having a substitute coach take “his eye off the prize”. No way London was “a better” team by loosing to Wyoming to the same level Massie beat Wyoming 12 months prior.

The state loss to Stubenville with a 1 score difference in 4th was a result of the same relaxed play calling as in the 1st. No urgency, no creativity (tight end pass TD previously). After the onside KO, still nothing changed.

This link may be worth reading for objectivity and I believe the last sentence is the most important IF the actual goal for competition is to go BEYOND High School, when it’s over. If just being present is the goal, enjoy the smell.

https://www.nsr-inc.com/scouting-new...port-athletes/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Haha...no nerve hit here STILL in highschool.

Your arrogance of dismissing 20yrs of WINNING State titles, regional championships, plenty of league championships is amusing. Its that cocky attitude that makes a lot of haters of CM. Be humble my friend, scoreboards speak for themselfs.

If you really believe that Wyoming team was of the same caliber that we had beat the year before i'm wasting my time talking about this to you. They was 15-0 for a reason. As far as London, I didn't like a lot of the play calls or leaving 2 D1 lineman on the sideline defensively but to say we should of beat them is a unknown stretch. In fact sounds a little whiny. The coaching staff is always looking for help so feel free to go get your hands dirty and devote your time to maybe make a change or understand why they may be doing certain things (right or wrong).

And thank you for making my point in that link....The first sentence of the last paragraph says exactly what i been saying.
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  #42  
Old 03-10-19, 12:11 PM
triple option triple option is offline
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Originally Posted by flash18 View Post
Definitely a great program and have consistently won games and made playoff runs. However with that said I believe that back to back state title teams were 29-1 and were loaded loaded loaded with talent. Correct me if I am wrong but I think their only loss was on the road at Desales and we got stuffed inside the 10 twice. These teams had the player of the year on offense and player of the year on defense along with many many other studs. I guess my point is I think we could have comprised a coaching staff of yappi posters and had success with those teams.

In my opinion I think highschool is over is saying that it is the lack of coaching and lack of adjustments whether it be personnel changes or play calling on the teams that are were not as talented as the 12 and 13 squads is where the problem lies. In years past I continue to see defenses load the box and sell out to stop the run with little or no adjustment by our offense coordinator. In recent years we have had 6"6 tight ends that can run and move and I can count on one hand how many times they were targeted in the passing game. Simple adjustments that could have opened up the running game.

Obviously when we were unable to run the ball effectively there seemed to be no backup plan offensively. With that said the continued use of a pee wee reverse that only works against teams like East Clinton or Miami Trace was not the answer for a big play against teams that were competitive. I can recall times when Massie teams of the past were down 2-3 scores and having to rely on the pass and offensively we continued to send out 1-2receiver routes while continuing to run play action. I am no rocket scientist but if you have only rushed for 50-80 yards the whole game it's pretty obvious the play action is irrelevant.

In closing this is a great football school that has had success but I really believe this program has left a few state championship appearances on the table that maybe could have happened with some open mindedness. Just my opinion.
I agree with a lot you've said here Flash, not sure about the appearances left on the table the next best team from before the Bayle Wolf years in my opinion was the Scanlon, Salisbury team that hit that Alter buzzsaw. A few CM teams could of made a better run in the playoffs for sure tho imo.
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  #43  
Old 03-11-19, 02:23 PM
triple option triple option is offline
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Originally Posted by CMxFalcons View Post
Massie has had so many good classes, it's hard to pick one group or team as the best or say who had the most potential. The class of '07 had Frey (UC) and Sargent (UK), '11 had Calhoun, Richardson, Wilkie, Evans, Scanlon, Stenger and a whole host of other guys who were great. No doubt the state title runs were LOADED, but when is the last time someone won a D4 state title without a LOADED team? Saying any yappi poster could have had success with those 12 and 13 teams is a JOKE and incredible disrespectful the work those players and coaches have put in. Do you realize the talent that was across the field? Massie was playing teams with 2-5 D1 kids every week. In 12 they had to get by a Hartley team who had some great players (Calhoun, Matuska and Wooley (??) and then played a St. C team who fielded at least 4 D1 scholarship kids: Ferns (Michigan), Brown (Youngstown) and both WRs (Purdue and Ohio) plus their QB went on to start at a D2 school his freshman year. Then the next year they go on a run where they have to beat Alter, Kenton and Mooney for weeks 13, 14 and 15... that's friggin' tough. Then in '17 they surprised everyone and end up in the state championship game. Not saying they were not talented but the overall talent level of '17 doesn't really compare to that of '12 or '13.

I think everyone needs to let Dan and company run their show and stop being idiots thinking you know more than they do. If any of you knew 1/2 as much as they do about football you wouldn't be standing on the other side of the fence flippin' your minnow and running your jibs on Friday night.
Definitely some talented squads through the years..most of the teams they got beat by went on to the state games. Alter a couple times, Kenton, Coldwater, Versailes off the top of my head. Not sure about the minnow thru the fence tho, or jibs on a minnow or friday night minnow jibs or whatever you mean, but still a good post.
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  #44  
Old 03-11-19, 06:48 PM
WISHBONE14 WISHBONE14 is offline
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Wow, was just hoping to get a Watterson response...
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  #45  
Old 03-16-19, 02:37 AM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Here's a left turn. Looking at EagleFan's schedules thread and double checking Arbiter, MARION has signed on to play Bishop Watterson @ Ohio Dominican in week 2.
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  #46  
Old 03-17-19, 08:37 AM
WISHBONE14 WISHBONE14 is offline
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Yep.Massie will end up playing a 9 game schedule. Apparently nobody wants a part of Massie....D3 private private playing a D7..... laughable...good job Watterson!
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  #47  
Old 03-17-19, 09:18 AM
WJ-OSU-STEELERS WJ-OSU-STEELERS is offline
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That D7 school is no ordinary D7 school, you know that and if you look at Watterson’s schedule it is probably one of the toughest in DIII - they are not ducking anyone. Clinton Massie’s 9 game schedule is on them and their administration.
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  #48  
Old 03-17-19, 10:57 AM
I love cheeseburgers I love cheeseburgers is offline
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Who makes up the schedule? The AD? Coach?
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  #49  
Old 03-17-19, 11:51 AM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Sounds like Clinton Massie didn’t call Watterson. Pretty cool to see the small school dynasty of Marion Local playing Watterson
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  #50  
Old 03-17-19, 01:32 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wishbone14 View Post
yep.massie will end up playing a 9 game schedule. Apparently nobody wants a part of massie....d3 private private playing a d7..... Laughable...good job watterson!
d6
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  #51  
Old 03-17-19, 01:50 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
Sounds like Clinton Massie didn’t call Watterson. Pretty cool to see the small school dynasty of Marion Local playing Watterson
Flyers lose so much that I anticipate a running clock in this one.
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  #52  
Old 03-18-19, 08:54 AM
RollingTrain RollingTrain is offline
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Word is yes, Marion is coming up on a bit of a down period and I think it's supposed to last more than a year or so...
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  #53  
Old 03-18-19, 05:28 PM
WISHBONE14 WISHBONE14 is offline
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well that no ordinary D7 school didnt want no part of massie....watterson seen an easy win vs ML and took it...blame who u want, but D3 vs D4 makes sense....D3 private vs a D7 team that is so called down is laughable!!! and if watterson schedule is so tough, .....oh nevermind, i see, why play massie when u can get that easy win vs ML...prolly homecoming to!!!!
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  #54  
Old 03-18-19, 08:30 PM
WJ-OSU-STEELERS WJ-OSU-STEELERS is offline
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WISHBONE14 - First off, I root for Clinton Massie because of Coach McSurley being from West Jefferson and I loved it when CM beat Hartley in 2012 playoffs. However, I have no idea if Marion Local "didn't want no part of" Clinton Massie or if D3 private Watterson thought it was a "easy win" vs D6 ML and ducked the CM as you proclaim. I'm sure Watterson looked at both CM & ML to see what each had coming back but I don't care what people think/believe - I'll believe it when/if it happens that ML has a real down year. Watterson has a very challenging schedule and kudos to them for playing ML. As I said earlier, CM knew they had this week 2 opening for quite some time - again it is on CM's administration that they are in this spot. Don't blame Watterson for doing what is best for their program. Last season Watterson had 35 players out on their football team (grades 9 thru 12) and this year they open at DI Lancaster - I think CM opens with might 'rival' East Clinton, a team they should have dropped 15+ years ago. CM might think differently with a week 2 opponent if they were playing anyone with a pulse, let alone a DI ground & pound school like Lancaster. Regarding your belief that ML "didn't want no part of" CM, I went back on CalPreps.com to see who would be favorite over the last 16 seasons:
16 YEAR TOTALS: ML 12-4 vs CM, 471-322 total pts or 29.43-20.12 ppg average score
2018: ML 28-17
2017: ML 28-14
2016: ML 31-7
2015: ML 31-21
2014: ML 35-20
2013: ML 28-20
2012: CM 35-27
2011: ML 31-21
2010: CM 28-27
2009: CM 20-19
2008: ML 34-19
2007: ML 40-10
2006: ML 35-21
2005: ML 28-20
2004: CM 27-22
2003: ML 27-22

If you look at ML's all time playoff stats:

* ML - 21 playoff appearances, 76-11 record, 10 state titles, 2 runner up's
* CM - 18 playoff appearances, 31-16 record, 2 state titles, 1 runner up

Both schools have very impressive resumes but YES - ML is no ordinary D6/D7 school.

Last edited by WJ-OSU-STEELERS; 03-18-19 at 08:43 PM.
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  #55  
Old 03-19-19, 02:09 PM
I love cheeseburgers I love cheeseburgers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ-OSU-STEELERS View Post
WISHBONE14 - First off, I root for Clinton Massie because of Coach McSurley being from West Jefferson and I loved it when CM beat Hartley in 2012 playoffs. However, I have no idea if Marion Local "didn't want no part of" Clinton Massie or if D3 private Watterson thought it was a "easy win" vs D6 ML and ducked the CM as you proclaim. I'm sure Watterson looked at both CM & ML to see what each had coming back but I don't care what people think/believe - I'll believe it when/if it happens that ML has a real down year. Watterson has a very challenging schedule and kudos to them for playing ML. As I said earlier, CM knew they had this week 2 opening for quite some time - again it is on CM's administration that they are in this spot. Don't blame Watterson for doing what is best for their program. Last season Watterson had 35 players out on their football team (grades 9 thru 12) and this year they open at DI Lancaster - I think CM opens with might 'rival' East Clinton, a team they should have dropped 15+ years ago. CM might think differently with a week 2 opponent if they were playing anyone with a pulse, let alone a DI ground & pound school like Lancaster. Regarding your belief that ML "didn't want no part of" CM, I went back on CalPreps.com to see who would be favorite over the last 16 seasons:
16 YEAR TOTALS: ML 12-4 vs CM, 471-322 total pts or 29.43-20.12 ppg average score
2018: ML 28-17
2017: ML 28-14
2016: ML 31-7
2015: ML 31-21
2014: ML 35-20
2013: ML 28-20
2012: CM 35-27
2011: ML 31-21
2010: CM 28-27
2009: CM 20-19
2008: ML 34-19
2007: ML 40-10
2006: ML 35-21
2005: ML 28-20
2004: CM 27-22
2003: ML 27-22

If you look at ML's all time playoff stats:

* ML - 21 playoff appearances, 76-11 record, 10 state titles, 2 runner up's
* CM - 18 playoff appearances, 31-16 record, 2 state titles, 1 runner up

Both schools have very impressive resumes but YES - ML is no ordinary D6/D7 school.
but did the computer from cal preps take into consideration the extremely complex passing game that Massie has employed over the last 15+ years. That would factor in heavily in the analysis.
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  #56  
Old 03-19-19, 06:26 PM
WISHBONE14 WISHBONE14 is offline
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mr steeler/buckeye..we and big Dan appreciate it....and i do know by the way.... seriously cal preps? did cal preps predict that blanchester would beat massie by 34 points in 2006 for example??? you play the game on the field sir, i believe its sir?....2013? really ? alter, kenton and mooney!!!...12-4 vs massie is laughable....
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  #57  
Old 03-19-19, 06:51 PM
Msfootball Msfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by WISHBONE14 View Post
mr steeler/buckeye..we and big Dan appreciate it....and i do know by the way.... seriously cal preps? did cal preps predict that blanchester would beat massie by 34 points in 2006 for example??? you play the game on the field sir, i believe its sir?....2013? really ? alter, kenton and mooney!!!...12-4 vs massie is laughable....
I don't know why the cal preps score of Marion Local 28-20 over Massie is such a stretch in 2013. Coldwater beat Bishop Hartley twice that year, once in the regular season and again in the state championship. Marion Local beat Coldwater that year 47-14. Is it unreasonable to think MSML takes Massie that year?

At least give MArion Local 2007. That year Coldwater beat MAssie 63-14. Coldwater went on to beat Alter and Mooney. Marion Local beat Coldwater 35-14. Surely the lowly Flyers could have at least given Massie a game that year.
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  #58  
Old 03-19-19, 07:41 PM
WJ-OSU-STEELERS WJ-OSU-STEELERS is offline
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Wishbone - You are absolutely right, the game is played on the field and not on Calpreps but it does give one something to go by. I was as surprised as you about the 12-4, I thought it would have been a 60/40 ML split but it goes to show how good & dominant ML has been since 2000. Regarding 2013, I would say 28-20 ML is about right. I saw ML play WJ Week 2 (29-0 ML) and Coldwater on tv vs Hartley in the regular season. ML dominated Coldwater 47-14 with their backup qb (starting qb went to Pitt on a full scholarship). That ML team was ranked #1 in the nation for small schools by MaxPreps, Coldwater was #6 and had Brody Hoying as their qb-he’s a RSr at Eastern Michiganan as a all MAC dB. Also, I saw Waynesville vs WJ (42-38 WJ) in the playoffs and I believe they played CM (21-19) down to the wire that season.

2013 CM vs ML would have been a good game but to say it would be laughable is foolish on your part. Sorry if you were on the 2013 CM team but that group of ML juniors were dominant/exceptional football players. They were what your CM sophomore class aspires to be.
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  #59  
Old 03-19-19, 07:50 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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There's one game I wish could've been played and that's this one:

[2012] Coldwater (OH) 31, [2012] Clinton-Massie (Clarksville, OH) 21

15-0 vs 15-0.
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  #60  
Old 03-20-19, 11:07 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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thavoice is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingTrain View Post
Word is yes, Marion is coming up on a bit of a down period and I think it's supposed to last more than a year or so...
Many in the area fear an extended break from making the playoffs, and scheduling a Loss against BW wont help them at all.

As far as CW and CM. In their two game series recently they went 1-1, and the last two CW teams were likely their weakest in a decade plus so that is out there as well.
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