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  #1  
Old 04-23-18, 08:33 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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US Open - An Ohio Perspective

Some interesting entrees (from an Ohioan's perspective, including Ohio affiliated) and their ranking:

57kg
#4 Nate Tomasello
Note: #1 Gilman gets a pass to Final X, #2 Ramos and #3 Fix are entered. #5 Spencer Lee gets a pass to WTT and may not compete in Open.

61kg
#10 Johnni DiJulius
#2 Joe Colon is top entree so far.

65kg
UR Dean Heil
#4 Joey McKenna
#2 Logan Stieber
UR Joey Ward
Note: #1 Zain Retherford gets a pass to the WTT and may not compete in the Open.

70kg
UR Matt Kolodzik
UR Lance Plamer
#7 Hunter Stieber
Note: #1 James Green gets a pass to Final X. Top ranked entree is #2 Frank Molinaro.

74kg
UR Taleb Rahmani
Note: #1 Jordan Burroughs gets a pass to Final X. #2 Dan Vallimont is top entree.

79kg
No Ohio boys yet. #1 Kyle Dake is top entree.

86kg
#1 David Taylor

92kg
#5 Kenneth Courts
Top entree is #1 J'den Cox

97kg
UR Ty Walz
Note: Kyle Snyder gets a pass to Final X.

125kg
No Ohio boys entered so far. #1 Gwiz gets a pass to Final X. Top entree is Dom Bradley.
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  #2  
Old 04-23-18, 08:35 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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There'll be late entrees this week, so this list will likely change.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-18, 08:37 AM
ttwo0603 ttwo0603 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
Some interesting entrees (from an Ohioan's perspective, including Ohio affiliated) and their ranking:

57kg
#4 Nate Tomasello
Note: #1 Gilman gets a pass to Final X, #2 Ramos and #3 Fix are entered. #5 Spencer Lee gets a pass to WTT and may not compete in Open.

61kg
#10 Johnni DiJulius
#2 Joe Colon is top entree so far.

65kg
UR Dean Heil
#4 Joey McKenna
#2 Logan Stieber
UR Joey Ward
Note: #1 Zain Retherford gets a pass to the WTT and may not compete in the Open.

70kg
UR Matt Kolodzik
UR Lance Plamer
#7 Hunter Stieber
Note: #1 James Green gets a pass to Final X. Top ranked entree is #2 Frank Molinaro.

74kg
UR Taleb Rahmani
Note: #1 Jordan Burroughs gets a pass to Final X. #2 Dan Vallimont is top entree.

79kg
No Ohio boys yet. #1 Kyle Dake is top entree.

86kg
#1 David Taylor

92kg
#5 Kenneth Courts
Top entree is #1 J'den Cox

97kg
UR Ty Walz
Note: Kyle Snyder gets a pass to Final X.

125kg
No Ohio boys entered so far. #1 Gwiz gets a pass to Final X. Top entree is Dom Bradley.
Can Ty Walz get down to 213lbs?


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  #4  
Old 04-23-18, 08:56 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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If anyone knows this better than me, I'd appreciate any corrections. To qualify for the World Championship (I think in August), wrestlers must first win the Final X. I believe this is a new twist to the World Team Trials (WTT). Wrestlers who have a 2017 World medal in their back pocket can skip the US Open and the WTT and wait for the winner of these tournaments. The first event, the US Open is this weekend. If you place in the top 7 of the US Open, then you qualify for the WTT. But you can also qualify for the WTT by placing high in other qualifying tournaments or by winning the NCAAs. In this case the wrestler may choose to skip the Open and just compete in the WTT.

So, stage 1 is the Open this week.
Stage 2 is the WTT.
Stage 3 is the Final X. This is a best of three for the final two wrestlers in each weight.

Wrestlers who won a world medal at the 2017 Worlds (Gilman, Green, Burroughs, Snyder and Gwiz) don't have to wrestle in the Open or the WTT. The winner of the WTT will wrestle these guys in the Final X. I think the Final X is a new thing this year. Previously (I think) everything was settled at the WTT. Cox won a World medal at 86kg but is competing at 92kg so he doesn't get the pass on to the Final X.

For weights other than Gilman, Green, Burroughs, Snyder and Gwiz, I'm not sure if the US Open champ goes to the Final X or if he has to win the WTT as well. Perhaps someone who has figured this out can clarify it for me and others. I think the Open champ goes to the Final X, except in the weights for Gilman, Green, etc.
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  #5  
Old 04-23-18, 09:02 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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So Final X (I think) looks like this:

57kg Gilman vs winner of WTT
61kg Open champ goes to Final X vs winner of WTT
65kg Open champ goes to Final X vs winner of WTT
70kg Green vs winner of WTT
74kg Burroughs vs winner of WTT
79kg Open champ goes to Final X vs winner of WTT
86kg Open champ goes to Final X vs winner of WTT
92kg Open champ goes to Final X vs winner of WTT
97kg Snyder vs winner of WTT
125kg Gwiz vs winner of WTT
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  #6  
Old 04-23-18, 11:46 AM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
If anyone knows this better than me, I'd appreciate any corrections. To qualify for the World Championship (I think in August), wrestlers must first win the Final X. I believe this is a new twist to the World Team Trials (WTT). Wrestlers who have a 2017 World medal in their back pocket can skip the US Open and the WTT and wait for the winner of these tournaments. The first event, the US Open is this weekend. If you place in the top 7 of the US Open, then you qualify for the WTT. But you can also qualify for the WTT by placing high in other qualifying tournaments or by winning the NCAAs. In this case the wrestler may choose to skip the Open and just compete in the WTT.

So, stage 1 is the Open this week.
Stage 2 is the WTT.
Stage 3 is the Final X. This is a best of three for the final two wrestlers in each weight.

Wrestlers who won a world medal at the 2017 Worlds (Gilman, Green, Burroughs, Snyder and Gwiz) don't have to wrestle in the Open or the WTT. The winner of the WTT will wrestle these guys in the Final X. I think the Final X is a new thing this year. Previously (I think) everything was settled at the WTT. Cox won a World medal at 86kg but is competing at 92kg so he doesn't get the pass on to the Final X.

For weights other than Gilman, Green, Burroughs, Snyder and Gwiz, I'm not sure if the US Open champ goes to the Final X or if he has to win the WTT as well. Perhaps someone who has figured this out can clarify it for me and others. I think the Open champ goes to the Final X, except in the weights for Gilman, Green, etc.
The winner of the Open sits in the finals of the World Team Trials. If there is no returning medalist, the Open champ meets the Trials champ at Final X. If there is a returning medalist, the Open champ wrestles the Trials champ in a best of three at the end of the Trials, with the winner of that taking on the returning medalist at Final X. Hope that all made sense.
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  #7  
Old 04-23-18, 11:51 AM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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More guys from OH I had on my list-

Will Bardezbain from Kent State at 61kg
Josh Heil at 70kg
Mike DePalma at 70kg
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  #8  
Old 04-23-18, 12:08 PM
jmog jmog is online now
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This couldn't be more complicated if they tried...

Why not just have 1 tournament...US Open and the winner is on the world team?
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  #9  
Old 04-23-18, 12:12 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Makes sense.
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  #10  
Old 04-23-18, 12:20 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
This couldn't be more complicated if they tried...

Why not just have 1 tournament...US Open and the winner is on the world team?
Gotta think for a couple reasons. First is give guys more opportunities if they are injured. Second, upsets happen, but we really want the best guy to be on the team so the process allows for upsets to not affect team selection as much.
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  #11  
Old 04-23-18, 12:22 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
This couldn't be more complicated if they tried...

Why not just have 1 tournament...US Open and the winner is on the world team?
Does anyone know how long they have been doing it this way? I know this is the first year for the Final X, meaning the finals don't take part until after the Open and the WTT. But have they always done both the Open and the WTT or was there a time that they only did the Open and that decided the World Team. I don't know if I'm imagining it, but I seem to remember a time when they had the Open, but then the US World Team members were just picked by the coaching staff. A US Open champ could get by passed for the World and Olympic Teams by a guy that they beat in the Open. Maybe I made that up, but I kind of remember that happening. Full disclosure, I'm old and I can't remember what I ate for lunch today.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-18, 01:15 PM
jmog jmog is online now
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The only thing I agree with, if they are going to have this mess, is that the best of 3 is NOT the same day as the WTT like in the past.

It always put one "challenge" winner at a disadvantage to have to have wrestled through a bracket all day and then wrestle a best of 3 with someone who is 100% fresh.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-18, 01:42 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
Does anyone know how long they have been doing it this way? I know this is the first year for the Final X, meaning the finals don't take part until after the Open and the WTT. But have they always done both the Open and the WTT or was there a time that they only did the Open and that decided the World Team. I don't know if I'm imagining it, but I seem to remember a time when they had the Open, but then the US World Team members were just picked by the coaching staff. A US Open champ could get by passed for the World and Olympic Teams by a guy that they beat in the Open. Maybe I made that up, but I kind of remember that happening. Full disclosure, I'm old and I can't remember what I ate for lunch today.
Someone with more historical knowledge may know specific years they did specific format.

Here's what I do like about the current format.
*It puts a much higher value on wrestling in and winning the open. Winner either gets to sit out until the finals of the WTT or Final X (If no World medalist at this weight)
*Adds value to winning NCAA, Schultz, or Farrell (All have bye to WTT, this may have already been in place in the past)
*Continues to reward World Medalists by getting a bye to the Final X
*Allows the winner of the WTT to get some rest before having to face the #1 guy at the weight.
*Can build hype for the Final X matchups
*Probably does a better job of truly getting the best guy at the weight. But I think the same guys win each time except for maybe a few weights

Here's what I don't like
*Confusing for many fans (Flo Wrestling Has a diagram of how it actually works)
*If you're a fan how can you possibly afford to go so all these events live
Open in Vegas
WTT in Iowa
Final X @ Lehigh, Happy Valley, & Lincoln on 3 separate weekends.

What will they do in 2020 the Olympic Year?
*Will they continue this format during the 2020 Olympic year?
*I know that the Olympic trials are always a big draw but if you do the Final X format then it decreases the value of that event.

My suggestion for Olympic Year
Have your Final X on the last day of the trials
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  #14  
Old 04-23-18, 01:48 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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The biggest problem I see in the current vetting process for the World Team is that the Open and WTT won't let you watch all of USA's best in one viewing. Do you want to see Gilman, Green, Burroughs, Snyder and Gwiz? Well, don't go to the Open or WTT. But you can see 4 of those 5 (all but Gwiz) at the 6/9 Final X. For Gwiz you'll have to wait until 6/23, and get to see 61kg and 92kg as well. What about 65 (Stieber vs Zain) and David Taylor at 86? That'll be on 6/16.

There will be some great wrestling at the Open and the WTT, but not the 5 World medal holders. And the others feature wrestlers may be at one but not the other. Oh well. I'm still excited to see what happens this week. 57 will be crazy, and I really would like to see what Gabe Steveson does at 125. Personally, I don't think he beats guys like Bradely, Coon or Rey.
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  #15  
Old 04-23-18, 05:44 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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No Tomasello at 57kg according to pre seeds. Jake Varner is back too- 125kg is loaded.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-18, 06:29 PM
Boro Fan Boro Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttwo0603 View Post
Can Ty Walz get down to 213lbs?


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Why wouldn't he? He's been making the weight for a year now or so I believe.
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  #17  
Old 04-23-18, 06:30 PM
Boro Fan Boro Fan is offline
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Cody Walters (Ohio U/Chanel) is entered at 92kg
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  #18  
Old 04-23-18, 06:56 PM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
This couldn't be more complicated if they tried...

Why not just have 1 tournament...US Open and the winner is on the world team?
Apparently this format was designed by the same government bureaucrats who gave us the income tax code.
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  #19  
Old 04-23-18, 07:01 PM
ttwo0603 ttwo0603 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro Fan View Post
Why wouldn't he? He's been making the weight for a year now or so I believe.
All those years watching him in college. His muscle mass. I just didn't think it was possible. Dude is built like a Greek God

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  #20  
Old 04-23-18, 08:57 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Per the pre seeds the matches I’m looking forward to the most all fall under the category of the next generation
57 kg Ramos vs next generation Fix
79kg Deringer vs next generation Valencia and if Valencia wins then vs Dake
125kg anybody vs next generation Steveson

At 57 I think Lee and not Fix will be the USA guy in the future but I’m not sure he’s ready just yet

At 79 Hall shares the spotlight with Valencia but I think Valencia is better. And I don’t think either can beat Dake yet and probably not Deringer either

At 125 Stevenson at 5 should meet Coon at 4. I don’t think he beats Coon or anyone of note but the future is his


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Last edited by bdhof; 04-24-18 at 09:07 AM.
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  #21  
Old 04-24-18, 01:25 AM
SavageB SavageB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
This couldn't be more complicated if they tried...

Why not just have 1 tournament...US Open and the winner is on the world team?
I think this helps build a "season" for the senior level guys, and it adds value to these tournaments. You can market match ups better and draw in more fans.
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  #22  
Old 04-24-18, 09:04 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by SavageB View Post
I think this helps build a "season" for the senior level guys, and it adds value to these tournaments. You can market match ups better and draw in more fans.
Once you get past the confusion, I would tend to agree. It's all about the Final X. You get to the Final X one of three ways. You are a returning World medalist - Gilman, Green, Burroughs, Snyder and Gwiz. You win the Open - to be decided this weekend. Or you win the WTT - 5/18-5/20. The WWT is a second chance for those who don't win the Open. And some who have already qualified for the WTT will skip the Open.

Where I think they messed up is with having the Final X at three different sites on three different weekends. Imagine if the NCAAs had this great idea. We'll do weights 125-141 March 15-16 in Cleveland, 149-174 March 22-23 in Iowa, and 184-285 March 29-30 in Oklahoma.

This would be a go to event for many wrestling fans if the Final X was all on one weekend. Imagine this lineup:
57kg Lee vs Gilman
61kg Maple vs who knows
65kg Stieber vs Retherford
70kg Green vs Molinaro
74kg Burroughs vs IMar/Joseph
79kg Dake vs Deringer/Valencia/Hall
86kg Taylor vs Bo Nickal
92kg Cox vs Heflin
97kg Snyder vs some poor loser
125kg Gwiz vs Steveson (OK, I don't think Gable will be in the Final X, but it would be fun if he was)

You put it on three mats, one for Women, one for Greco and one for freestyle. Session 1 is Sunday at noon. Session 2 is Sunday afternoon. Session 3 is Sunday night.

Under the current multi-date format, if there was a Final X in Ohio, I would probably go, but would be disappointed that I was missing the other weights.

Last edited by bdhof; 04-24-18 at 09:38 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-24-18, 10:14 AM
LHS WRESTLING LHS WRESTLING is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Someone with more historical knowledge may know specific years they did specific format.

Here's what I do like about the current format.
*It puts a much higher value on wrestling in and winning the open. Winner either gets to sit out until the finals of the WTT or Final X (If no World medalist at this weight)
*Adds value to winning NCAA, Schultz, or Farrell (All have bye to WTT, this may have already been in place in the past)
*Continues to reward World Medalists by getting a bye to the Final X
*Allows the winner of the WTT to get some rest before having to face the #1 guy at the weight.
*Can build hype for the Final X matchups
*Probably does a better job of truly getting the best guy at the weight. But I think the same guys win each time except for maybe a few weights

Here's what I don't like
*Confusing for many fans (Flo Wrestling Has a diagram of how it actually works)
*If you're a fan how can you possibly afford to go so all these events live
Open in Vegas
WTT in Iowa
Final X @ Lehigh, Happy Valley, & Lincoln on 3 separate weekends.

What will they do in 2020 the Olympic Year?
*Will they continue this format during the 2020 Olympic year?
*I know that the Olympic trials are always a big draw but if you do the Final X format then it decreases the value of that event.

My suggestion for Olympic Year
Have your Final X on the last day of the trials
Leave it to USA Wrestling to make it so complicated.....
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  #24  
Old 04-24-18, 02:13 PM
OCEagle OCEagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
I really would like to see what Gabe Steveson does at 125.
That is Gable Steveson. Can't forget the tie-in to Dan Gable his father bestowed upon him when he gave him his name. Probably just a typo...
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  #25  
Old 04-24-18, 07:06 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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57kg:

Tony Ramos- 1x NCAA Champ, 3x AA, 2x World Team Member, 1x age level team member
Darian Cruz- 1x NCAA Champ, 3x AA
Eddie Klimara- 1x AA
Frank Perrelli- 1x AA
David Terao- 1x AA
Nathan Tomasello- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA
Zane Richards- 2x AA, 1x age level team member
Daton Fix- 2x Junior world medalist, 1x cadet world medalist, 5x age level team member
Zach Sanders- 4x AA, 1x university silver medalist, 2x age level team member

61kg:

Alan Waters- 2x AA
Chris Dardanes- 3x AA
Cody Brewer- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA
Cory Clark- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA
Earl Hall- 2x AA, 1x age level team member
Joe Colon- 1x AA
Jon Morrison- 1x AA
Nahshon Garrett- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA
Nico Megaludis- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x age level team member
Seth Gross- 1x NCAA Champ, 2x AA, 2x age level team member
Tyler Graff- 4x AA, 3x age level team member’
Darrius Little- 1x AA
AJ Schopp- 3x AA

65kg:

Anthony Ashnault- 3x AA, 1x age level team member
Dean Heil- 2x NCAA Champ, 3x AA
Evan Henderson- 2x AA
Jaydin Eierman- 2x AA
Joey Ward- 1x AA
Joey McKenna- 2x AA, 1x U23 bronze medalist, 1x junior silver medalist, 4x age level team member
Josh Kindig- 1x AA, 1x age level team member
Logan Stieber- 4x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x World Gold Medal, 2x World Team Member, 1x junior silver medalist, 1x age level team member
Nick Dardanes- 1x AA
Jayson Ness- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA
Andy Simmons- 2x AA

70kg:

Frank Molinaro- 1x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x World team member
Hunter Stieber- 2x AA
Jason Chamberlain- 2x AA, 3x age level team member
Matt Kolodzik- 2x AA
Hayden Hidlay- 1x AA
Lance Palmer- 4x AA
Ryan Deakin- 1x junior silver medalist, 1x age level team member
Dylan Ness- 4x AA
Chase Pami- 2x AA

74kg:

Dan Vallimont- 2x AA
Evan Wick- 1x AA
Isaiah Martinez- 2x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x age level team member

79kg:

Alex Dieringer- 3x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x junior silver medalist, 2x age level team member
Kyle Dake- 4x NCAA Champ, 4x AA
Nate Jackson- 2x AA
Mike Evans- 3x AA
Zahid Valencia- 1x NCAA Champ, 2x AA, 1x junior silver medalist, 3x age level team member
Josh Asper- 2x AA

86kg:

Pat Downey- 1x AA, 1x junior silver medalist, 1x age level team member
TJ Dudley- 3x AA
David Taylor- 2x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x university bronze medal, 2x age level team member

92kg:

Cody Walters- 2x AA
J’Den Cox- 3x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 2x World Team member, 2x world bronze medalist
Kenny Courts- 1x AA
Hayden Zillmer- 1x AA

97kg:

Kyven Gadson- 1x NCAA Champ, 3x AA
Nathan Burak- 3x AA
Ty Walz- 3x AA, 1x U23 bronze medalist, 1x age level team member

125kg:

Adam Coon- 4x AA, 1x junior bronze medalist, 1x cadet gold medalist, 1x age level team member
Dom Bradley- 2x AA, junior gold medalist, 1x age level team member
Michael Hughes- 1x AA
Zach Rey- 1x NCAA Champ, 3x AA, 1x world team member, 1x age level team member
Gable Steveson- 1x junior gold medalist, 2x cadet gold medalist, 3x age level team member
Tanner Hall- 1x AA, 2x age level team member
Tony Nelson- 2x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x age level team member
Jake Varner- 2x NCAA Champ, 4x AA, 1x senior gold medalist, 1x senior bronze medalist, 4x senior world team member, 1x age level team member

Last edited by Yankeefan33; 04-25-18 at 11:41 AM.
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  #26  
Old 04-24-18, 07:09 PM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Picks!!

57kg- Daton because who knows.
61kg- lol
65kg- Logie Bear
70kg- Molinaro
74kg- IMar
79kg- Dake over Ringer, but oh man am I excited for Freestyle Zahid
86kg- Magic Man
92kg- J'Den up a weight is scary
97kg- Ty Walz?
125kg- I think Coon is the best guy here, but idk how he will go coming off Greco. Gimme Dom Bradley (this weight is stacked by the way).
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  #27  
Old 04-24-18, 07:20 PM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
This couldn't be more complicated if they tried...

Why not just have 1 tournament...US Open and the winner is on the world team?
It's as simple as this...........

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  #28  
Old 04-24-18, 07:30 PM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is offline
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And the secret formula to determine the "Final X" participants is revealed..........

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  #29  
Old 04-25-18, 08:27 AM
Oilers63 Oilers63 is offline
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Cody Walters is a 2 time AA
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  #30  
Old 04-25-18, 11:41 AM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers63 View Post
Cody Walters is a 2 time AA
Fixed!
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