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  #1  
Old 07-03-18, 07:24 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Question 15 Years, LBJ Leaves Cleveland Twice, One Title, was it truly worth it?

Everything the past 15 years.

7 years. No playoffs first two but improvement shown. Almost beating Kingpin Detroit then beating Detroit to get an undermanned team to the Finals. Then reshuffling roster and taking eventual champs to 7 games before falling. Then consecutive earlier than expected losses despite 66 and 61 wins. There was Delonte, Elbow or No Elbow, Did he Quit?, The Decision and "Quitness". Then there was 3 awful years but in year 4 there was some improvement. LeBron comes back despite media doubting it. Cavs struggle early but get to the Finals with a hobbled team and were nearly up 3-0 in the Finals. Then came the 3-1 to Champions vs the Most winning team in NBA History. Then Durant joins The Evil Empire. Cavs fall in 5 in the "Three-Match", Kyrie leaves, team is filled with old stiffs and trades at deadline better the team. LBJ nearly falls in Round 1 for the first time ever but then roll the #1 seed in the East before surviving a wounded Celtics team to get back to the Finals. Epic performance in Game 1 but an even worse performance by the officials on multiple occasions as well as two of his teammates bumbling a win. Was there a hand injury or was it Elbow 2.0? Now he leaves for the second time and goes to a place that has resented and disrespected him for a decade and a half.

Was that ONE CHAMPIONSHIP worth it? While it was unforgettable and so many epic performances and moments was it worth it? Some would say that in his 11 years in Cleveland the supposed GOAT should have been able to win more than a single Championship.

What does everyone think?
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  #2  
Old 07-03-18, 07:48 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Yes. The one title was worth the entire ride. Especially considering Cleveland sports history.

They still talk reverently about the Big Red Machine in Cincy, where they won back to back WS, but could have conceivably won so much more. It doesn't diminish what they did, though.

In an area where pro sports ultimate success is so rare...yes...the time was all worth it, especially when you consider the Cavs were actually relevant the entire LBJ time in CLE. Sure, we all hoped for more, but it was not meant to be.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-18, 08:06 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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What would the alternative be? Being a bottom feeder every year? Because make no mistake, that's what Cleveland was, and will continue to be, without Lebron.

Cleveland fans really never disappoint. One title in your lifetime and you're criticizing the guy who brought it to you
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Old 07-03-18, 08:27 AM
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Oh, hail yes, it was worth it.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-18, 08:38 AM
Aaron Rogers Aaron Rogers is offline
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Great post Levi! Lol.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-18, 08:38 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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A championship, 7 or 8 deep playoff runs, and ten years of watching the second best player of all time play for my favorite team?
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  #7  
Old 07-03-18, 08:50 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
What would the alternative be? Being a bottom feeder every year? Because make no mistake, that's what Cleveland was, and will continue to be, without Lebron.

Cleveland fans really never disappoint. One title in your lifetime and you're criticizing the guy who brought it to you
I am NOT saying anything either way. I wanted to get an objective opinion from people. I have read a lot of comments and opinions on this and most Cleveland fans support LeBron's decision. Personally I think his decision is crap but who am I to judge. LA is hot garbage as a city, a fanbase and just overall. Go to Houston, Philly or even OKC. Think LBJ with Westbrook and George would be fun.

I will say this nugget: LeBron staying in CLE (adding Sexton and cutting some dead weight/contracts perhaps trading Love to get a better scorer) he would have had a infinite better chance of getting back to the Finals for a 9th time than he would in LA. I know Boston but be honest Kyrie's chronic injury problem and Hayward struggling on his recovery. Philly has talent but injuries and youth still rear their ugly head. I know Vegas/ESPN may say 7/2 at the chip I give them zero chance at getting to the Finals long as Durant, Curry and Harden are all healthy in April/May.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-18, 09:16 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I am NOT saying anything either way. I wanted to get an objective opinion from people.
I'm asking you what the alternative was. You asked "was it worth it?" which implies there was something to give up. What is that in your mind?

Quote:
LA is hot garbage as a city
Yeah, why would a wealthy famous person ever want to live in Southern California and not Cleveland!
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Old 07-03-18, 09:21 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I will say this nugget: LeBron staying in CLE (adding Sexton and cutting some dead weight/contracts perhaps trading Love to get a better scorer) he would have had a infinite better chance of getting back to the Finals for a 9th time than he would in LA. I know Boston but be honest Kyrie's chronic injury problem and Hayward struggling on his recovery. Philly has talent but injuries and youth still rear their ugly head. I know Vegas/ESPN may say 7/2 at the chip I give them zero chance at getting to the Finals long as Durant, Curry and Harden are all healthy in April/May.
Significantly easier said than done. If it was that simple, it would have been done.

This is the first I'm hearing of Hayward struggling on his recovery. In fact, it's gone about as well as it could from everything I've read.

Finally, LeBron joining Westbrook and PG would have been awful.
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  #10  
Old 07-03-18, 09:33 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Significantly easier said than done. If it was that simple, it would have been done.

This is the first I'm hearing of Hayward struggling on his recovery. In fact, it's gone about as well as it could from everything I've read.

Finally, LeBron joining Westbrook and PG would have been awful.
Just some hardcore Boston fan I have been talking to (or through his brother). I just found this link https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/c...eEM/story.html

Laker roster is looking like crap: Kuzma (no D), Ball, Stevenson, McGee , and Rondo. It looks like a roster Cleveland would try to shine up like a turd like they have in the past (and I say that as a Cavs fan). No stars Love would be the 2nd best player on that team.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-18, 09:46 AM
Southwest Guy Southwest Guy is offline
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There's always Stipe Miocic to bring in more world titles. He seems to be a real Cleveland fan.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-18, 10:19 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Just some hardcore Boston fan I have been talking to (or through his brother). I just found this link https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/c...eEM/story.html

Laker roster is looking like crap: Kuzma (no D), Ball, Stevenson, McGee , and Rondo. It looks like a roster Cleveland would try to shine up like a turd like they have in the past (and I say that as a Cavs fan). No stars Love would be the 2nd best player on that team.
Doesn't seem like the additional surgery to remove the screws/plates should alter his timeline. Looking like he should be back by the season opener.

While the talent level isn't significantly better, and I agree the roster makes little sense for a LeBron led team, there aren't any awful deals in the guys you named. Lance is making $4.5million for 1 year (which honestly is a great deal for what he'll provide). Rondo is on a 1 year deal. McGee makes the minimum on a 1 year deal. Ball and Kuzma are on rookie contracts. The worst contract is Deng and he'll be easy to offload on tanking teams for draft picks+young players. Even a solid player in KCP is on a 1 year deal. That's the difference between the Lakers roster and Cleveland. Cleveland is stuck with their bad roster for awhile. The Lakers aren't.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-18, 10:27 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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The Laker signings were definitely pretty sh*tty, but the one year deals won't hurt them long term. Total swing and miss on Cousins though. It's going to be a very weird roster if they don't move Lonzo
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  #14  
Old 07-03-18, 12:12 PM
Raymo Raymo is online now
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See how Lue puts the leftovers out on the court will tell you if it was worth it,just a shame how he held them hostage.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-18, 10:44 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I am NOT saying anything either way. I wanted to get an objective opinion from people. I have read a lot of comments and opinions on this and most Cleveland fans support LeBron's decision. Personally I think his decision is crap but who am I to judge. LA is hot garbage as a city, a fanbase and just overall. Go to Houston, Philly or even OKC. Think LBJ with Westbrook and George would be fun.

I will say this nugget: LeBron staying in CLE (adding Sexton and cutting some dead weight/contracts perhaps trading Love to get a better scorer) he would have had a infinite better chance of getting back to the Finals for a 9th time than he would in LA. I know Boston but be honest Kyrie's chronic injury problem and Hayward struggling on his recovery. Philly has talent but injuries and youth still rear their ugly head. I know Vegas/ESPN may say 7/2 at the chip I give them zero chance at getting to the Finals long as Durant, Curry and Harden are all healthy in April/May.
Those aren't Cleveland fans. Those are Cleveland haters and LeBron fans.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-18, 10:46 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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There's nothing normal about the LeBron saga. 15 years? More like 18! I remember catching a Massillon/SVSM game when I was in HS and he had already been anointed "the Chosen One" to break the Cleveland curse. This was pre-'02 OSU title. The biggest name in sports in town was Tim f'n Couch. I really can't think of any other athletes who have ever been in a situation like that, and especially from a ridiculously young age.

Was it worth it? We'd be sitting at 0 titles without him, lamenting the 2016 World Series which really was more like a blip on the radar rather than a gut-wrenching loss (sorry big time baseball fans). When was the last time there was a collective roar in America like the one in Northeast Ohio when the title finally came? When Japan surrendered?

It was worth it. But we shouldn't do something like that again. Too much emotional investment in one person and too much focus on what is at the end of the day a game. I'm glad the whole thing is over.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-18, 06:29 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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I agree with Jackson ... I enjoyed the ride ... but not all that upset about the ride being over ... I was ready to move on ... even if it means back to mediocrity
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  #18  
Old 07-04-18, 08:51 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I agree with Jackson ... I enjoyed the ride ... but not all that upset about the ride being over ... I was ready to move on ... even if it means back to mediocrity
I hope you don't complain about how bad any of the Cleveland teams are then.

Personally going to the Finals every year and being the envy of 99% of the league was pretty fun.
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  #19  
Old 07-04-18, 08:58 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
I'm asking you what the alternative was. You asked "was it worth it?" which implies there was something to give up. What is that in your mind?



Yeah, why would a wealthy famous person ever want to live in Southern California and not Cleveland!
If I was a wealthy person without young kids, I'd certainly consider a home there.

If my business life would require my physical presence in the city center daily wherever I chose to reside, and I was raising my three boys, I'd want no part of LA. None.
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  #20  
Old 07-04-18, 09:01 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I agree with Jackson ... I enjoyed the ride ... but not all that upset about the ride being over ... I was ready to move on ... even if it means back to mediocrity
Yeah, they were up against a ceiling of sorts. Kyrie's exodus and the inability to even fill his shoes 85% changed everything.
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  #21  
Old 07-04-18, 09:02 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
I hope you don't complain about how bad any of the Cleveland teams are then.

Personally going to the Finals every year and being the envy of 99% of the league was pretty fun.
Didn't you feel a bit guilty hoping for some GSW injury, though ?
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  #22  
Old 07-04-18, 09:16 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
I hope you don't complain about how bad any of the Cleveland teams are then.

Personally going to the Finals every year and being the envy of 99% of the league was pretty fun.
Oh I agree, I'm going to miss it. But the way the NBA is set up and the position the Cavs were in there were probably no further Finals trips in store. If Kyrie hadn't wanted out then I'd say we could have squeezed out one more year and one more shot at Golden State (I doubt Cousins is a factor with that kind of injury) but without him I just don't see how it's anything but 4-1 or 4-0 GSW again. No players wanted to play here, period. Gilbert would have paid anything, and all we got were castoffs that were locker room cancer.

And the other thing is LeBron has a rough personality. He's brutally controlling of his teammates, he's gruff in general, and he basically runs roughshod over any organization he's a part of. That's fine, lots of people are tough to get along with. Not saying he's a bad guy. But realistically, he should be getting absolute hell for demanding a massive salary for J.R. Smith and for (supposedly) breaking his hand in a fit of childish anger after the guy he demanded be overpaid by millions blew any shot at upsetting Golden State. And more importantly, he was the one that initiated this whole NBA superteam nonsense to begin with. I'm more than fine with him being in a philanthropy role in Northeast Ohio. I'll just find something else to occupy my time with other than the Cavs until they're good again.

Still want the farewell tour though!
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  #23  
Old 07-04-18, 09:44 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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I guess because of my lifelong disdain of the franchise and fans of the Lakers (I have the same for NY perhaps to a lesser degree).

I am thankful for everything because it brought so many memories and LeBron's Career would make an amazing Movie of series of Movies.

I just wish if LeBron had zero intent of staying in CLE maybe let the team know so they can begin to reshape the team instead of being left with the remnants of the his buddies inflated contracts.

I certainly don't wish any luck to him in LA. I hope Golden State curbstomps the Lakers in the first round. Nothing personal towards him I just don't like the Lakers. I don't care if my brother played for them.

Also losing 8 of 9 Finals games to GS was underwhelming to say the least. Blame officiating for Game 1 this year sure but there were 7 other games.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-18, 11:26 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Also losing 8 of 9 Finals games to GS was underwhelming to say the least. Blame officiating for Game 1 this year sure but there were 7 other games.
And only 3 of those 8 were within the Cavs' grasp. It's really amazing that the Cavs were able to almost win twice this year given the roster turnover. And Game 3 was of all things, the Rodney Hood show.

I really think if David Griffin hadn't been let go then LeBron might still be in Cleveland. But Dan Gilbert is a lot like Donald Trump with the carousel of executives in his organization. Witness the dysfunction and loss of major sponsorships/events at his casino.
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  #25  
Old 07-04-18, 11:36 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Yeah, they were up against a ceiling of sorts. Kyrie's exodus and the inability to even fill his shoes 85% changed everything.
No it didn't....still a Finals team without him...and a couple plays from 2-2.

This notion the Cavs had no hope to compete is nonsense.
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  #26  
Old 07-04-18, 11:37 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Didn't you feel a bit guilty hoping for some GSW injury, though ?
Where did I hope for an injury?
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  #27  
Old 07-04-18, 11:41 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
Oh I agree, I'm going to miss it. But the way the NBA is set up and the position the Cavs were in there were probably no further Finals trips in store. If Kyrie hadn't wanted out then I'd say we could have squeezed out one more year and one more shot at Golden State (I doubt Cousins is a factor with that kind of injury) but without him I just don't see how it's anything but 4-1 or 4-0 GSW again. No players wanted to play here, period. Gilbert would have paid anything, and all we got were castoffs that were locker room cancer.

And the other thing is LeBron has a rough personality. He's brutally controlling of his teammates, he's gruff in general, and he basically runs roughshod over any organization he's a part of. That's fine, lots of people are tough to get along with. Not saying he's a bad guy. But realistically, he should be getting absolute hell for demanding a massive salary for J.R. Smith and for (supposedly) breaking his hand in a fit of childish anger after the guy he demanded be overpaid by millions blew any shot at upsetting Golden State. And more importantly, he was the one that initiated this whole NBA superteam nonsense to begin with. I'm more than fine with him being in a philanthropy role in Northeast Ohio. I'll just find something else to occupy my time with other than the Cavs until they're good again.

Still want the farewell tour though!
So you aren't actually a Cavs fan you are a bandwagon guy...ok.

And why would you want LeBron back now? That's like going back to the girl who cheated on you twice. Forget her and move on.
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  #28  
Old 07-04-18, 11:47 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
And only 3 of those 8 were within the Cavs' grasp. It's really amazing that the Cavs were able to almost win twice this year given the roster turnover. And Game 3 was of all things, the Rodney Hood show.

I really think if David Griffin hadn't been let go then LeBron might still be in Cleveland. But Dan Gilbert is a lot like Donald Trump with the carousel of executives in his organization. Witness the dysfunction and loss of major sponsorships/events at his casino.
Yes the Cavs couldve easily been 2-2 this year with a roster turned over at midseason. That's my point. It was like a Chinese fire drill till the end.

Given the lengthy playoff experience for the young guys, an off-season of development, clearly defined roles from the beginning...no reason the Cavs couldn't have been right there again.
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  #29  
Old 07-04-18, 02:28 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Yes the Cavs couldve easily been 2-2 this year with a roster turned over at midseason. That's my point. It was like a Chinese fire drill till the end.

Given the lengthy playoff experience for the young guys, an off-season of development, clearly defined roles from the beginning...no reason the Cavs couldn't have been right there again.
Could they become a little bit better? Sure. But the main problem is these guys aren't going to suddenly learn to play defense or gain a ceiling that is higher than what they already have. Rodney Hood had one great game, but he's not suddenly going to become a threat to score 30 on any given night. Same with Jeff Green and the other guys. Tristan and J.R. are known quantities. Kyle Korver is 37 years old. The very last thing I want is for the Cavs to become Golden State's Toronto. It's over. It was a great rivalry for a while but Altman backed them into a salary cap corner they could not escape from.

The rest of the East is gonna be a little bit or more than a little bit better, too. Remember, the Cavs barely got by Indiana (who honestly deserved to go to the second round) and Boston. The Cavs could have been one and done, just like they also could have been 2-2 against Golden State. If you consider one possibility, you have to consider the other.

Yeah, I'm a bandwagon fan. Basketball has never been my first love. I think I went to and watched one game in the Mark Price era. But I've come to enjoy it. Probably spoiled a little bit getting to see Jackson go to the promised land a couple times and my college teams usually being good.

Yes, I'd like the farewell season if it happened. What's the difference? There'd be some interesting nightlife in Cleveland. I don't expect the guy to be Dirk Nowitzki and never win a title again. This is what the players union wanted, and this is the league we've got.
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  #30  
Old 07-04-18, 06:21 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
So you aren't actually a Cavs fan you are a bandwagon guy...ok.

And why would you want LeBron back now? That's like going back to the girl who cheated on you twice. Forget her and move on.
I now understand the emotion you're expending on this.

To answer the question at hand, HELL YES!
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