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  #1  
Old 06-28-17, 12:34 PM
bleuandgold bleuandgold is offline
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Brice Allen OUT at OSU

Brice Allen will not be returning next year as cross country coach at OSU. Perhaps they got sick of the constant 8th place and lower finishes at the Big Ten meet. Team was e-mailed about it recently, look for it to come out in the next few days.
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  #2  
Old 06-28-17, 01:22 PM
madman madman is offline
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I don't think Brice Allen was the guy to turn around that program, but distance runners have been going to OSU to kill their careers for decades - at least since the mid-80's when I started following Big 10 XC. Sure there have been a handful of extreme talents that re-emerged on the other side and have had modest professional careers, but the stories of unexpected all-american cross country runners at OSU are extremely limited. Since 2000 there have been only 3 guys who have been All-Americans in CC (See, Olinger, Connor)

As a team, Ohio State has NEVER won a big ten title since it began in 1908.

Since 1990, it has a median finish of 7th and was 7th, 8th, 9th, or 10th in 14 of those years.

The problems at OSU in distance running are a part of the culture there. In my opinion it will take hiring a "name" to coach the team, the kind of coach that Footlocker types would want to train under regardless of the location. There are only a small handful of those types of coaches in existence and I can't imagine any of them would be interested in being an assistant to Karen Dennis during track.

I don't blame Coach Allen for the problems at OSU. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and a reputation to overcome.

Last edited by madman; 06-30-17 at 04:16 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-28-17, 10:36 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
I don't think Brice Allen was the guy to turn around that program, but distance runners have been going to OSU to kill their careers for decades - at least since the mid-80's when I started following Big 10 XC.

...

The problems at OSU in distance running are a part of the culture there. In my opinion it will take hiring a "name" to coach the team, the kind of coach that Footlocker types would want to train under regardless of the location. There are only a small handful of those types of coaches in existence and I can't imagine any of them would be interested in being an assistant to Karen Dennis during track.

I don't blame Coach Allen for the problems at OSU. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and a reputation to overcome.
We will never know whether or not Coach Allen was the guy. I don't think he should be blamed at all. Five years is not enough time to turn this program around.

He had a decent recruiting year in 2014, bringing in 4 D1 All-Ohio runners (Elswick, Blank, Leitch, Mandel) plus and Indiana state champ (Bowie), then he brought in Lomong in 2016. Other than that the cupboard looks bare, especially with Elswick choosing to walk away.

I agree that a "big name" coach isn't coming. I do hope his replacement finds a way to keep more Ohio talent in state.
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  #4  
Old 06-28-17, 10:53 PM
xcrunner19 xcrunner19 is offline
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What happened to Elswick?
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  #5  
Old 06-28-17, 11:02 PM
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What happened to Elswick?
Unless I have the wrong Nick Elswick, he has chosen to serve our country as a member of the United States Marine Corps.
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  #6  
Old 06-28-17, 11:08 PM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Unless I have the wrong Nick Elswick, he has chosen to serve our country as a member of the United States Marine Corps.
You heard correctly.
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  #7  
Old 06-29-17, 07:47 AM
coachwhitman coachwhitman is offline
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I wish great things for Coach Allen. My interactions with him were always positive. Here's hoping for equally great things for Ohio State Cross Country and Track & Field distance running as well.
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Old 06-29-17, 11:10 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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My interactions with coach Allen were all positive as well. In addition, he coached one of my former athletes this year to All America status and the OSU school record in the 800. As well as her first trip to the USATF national meet. I wish him well wherever he goes.
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Old 06-29-17, 01:17 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Did he make it 5 years as coach? Did at least one class make it through with the same coach? It's always good to switch coaches every few years to keep the kids on their toes and keep things fresh. No one likes stability. Especially CC kids. Distance runners are very short term thinkers and need instant gratification. Long term dedication and goals is lost on distance kids.
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  #10  
Old 06-29-17, 01:26 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Brice Allen is in his fifth season as associate head coach for the Ohio State track and field and cross country programs. Allen heads up the men's cross country team as well as the distance runners for track and field.

In the fall of 2016, the Buckeyes excelled under the tutelage of Allen. The Scarlet and Gray won a team title at the season opening Queen City Invite, and they won a second-consecutive team title at the All-Ohio Championships. Evan Stifel had a stellar junior season staking claim to being the Buckeyes low guy at every single meet he competed at.

Stifel closed out the season with a personal record 10k time of 30:29.8 to place eighth at the NCAA Great Lakes Regional. With that finish, Stifel became the first Buckeye since Nick Pupino (2013) to be named to the Great Lakes All-Region squad. At the Big Ten Championships, Stifel mixed it up with some of the top runners in the nation to place seventh. That placing earned him First Team All-Big Ten accolades becoming the first Buckeye to do so since Jeff See (2009). Dating back to the 2015 season, Stifel has now been the top Buckeye finisher at Ohio State’s last eight races.

On the track, Allen tutored Jared Fleming, a budding mid-distance athlete in the spring of 2015. At the 2015 Big Ten Indoor Championships, Fleming clocked the third-fastest time (1:49.28) in program history to swipe bronze in the 800m run. During the 2016 outdoor slate, Fleming etched his name in the record books once again claiming the third-best readout in program history in the 800m run with a time of 1:48.07 at the NCAA East Preliminaries. In the fall of 2015, Allen also signed the No. 4 mid-distance athlete in the nation in Alex Lomong of Fork Union, Va.

2015 saw the emergence of Stifel and Clayton Bowie on the cross country circuit, two underclassmen who turned out to be mainstays in the Buckeye top five. Bowie scored in all six meets he ran in, including a season-opening win at the Flyer 5K Challenge with a 5k readout of 15:34.0. Stifel was just as steady in his five meets he competed in, scoring in all five and he closed out the season as the top Buckeye finisher at Pre Nationals, the Big Ten Championships and the NCAA Great Lakes Regional. The one-two punch of Stifel and Bowie also enabled the Buckeyes to win their first All-Ohio Championship meet since 2009 with a team score of 39 points.

In the fall of 2014, Allen led a young Ohio State cross country team to a 10th-place finish at both the Big Ten and Great Lakes championships after losing No. 1 and No. 2 runners Nick Pupino and Jordan Redd to injury in the preseason. Freshman Nick Elswick emerged early in the season for the Buckeyes, securing the top finish for the Scarlet and Gray at four of seven meets. Senior Jackson Neff stepped up late in the season for OSU, taking 28th at the Big Ten championships and 37th at the Great Lakes regional.

The track and field season was highlighted by Neff earning Second Team All-America honors in the 3000-meter steeplechase at the NCAA outdoor championships. Neff also had success at the Big Ten championships, earning bronze in the steeple outdoors and fourth place in the mile at the indoor championships. Middle distance runners Jared Fleming and Anthony Johnson also stepped up for the Buckeyes, with Fleming finishing third in the 800-meter run at the B1G indoor championships and Johnson claiming sixth in the 800 at the outdoor meet.

In his second season, Allen guided the cross country team to an eighth-place finish at the Big Ten championships and a seventh-place finish at the NCAA Great Lakes regional championships. Pupino was named to the All-Great Lakes regional team after a 20th-place finish at the regional meet, while Redd was the top finisher for the Buckeyes at four of six meets. During the track and field season, Allen coached Neff to a Big Ten title in the 3000-meter steeplechase and Blake Taneff to the fourth-fastest time in school history in the 10000-meter run (29:12.59).

In his first season at Ohio State, Allen helped guide Donny Roys to an NCAA-championship appearance during the cross country season and Chris Fallon to the NCAA indoor and outdoor championships in the mile and 1500-meter events, respectively. Under Allen's training and coaching Fallon became just the 390th American to run a sub-four minute mile. He finished with First Team All-America honors in the mile at the indoor championships.

Prior to coming to Ohio State, Allen served as distance coach at the University of Louisville for a total of seven years. He held the position of head men's and women's cross country coach from 2008-10 after working as an assistant coach and recruiting coordinator for both programs for four years.

The distance and cross country programs made considerable jumps under Allen. Under his tutelage, the Cardinal men garnered three Top 25 finishes from 2007-10 at the NCAA cross country championships after never having previously reached the event. To top it off, Wesley Korir and Cory Thorne earned U.S. Track & Field and Cross Country Coaches Association All-America honors under Allen's direction, an accomplishment that had not been attained in program history. The Cardinal women also took leaps forward in cross country under Allen. Most notably, Tarah McKay became the first female in program history to earn an individual bid to the NCAA cross country championships.

On the track, numbers alone back up the success of the Cardinal distance program. Allen was instrumental in mentoring eight All-America distance runners, 21 All-Region distance honorees, nine conference champions and 24 national championship qualifiers. Most impressive, though, was Matt Hughes becoming the first male in program history to win a title in an outdoor event, capturing the 3,000-meter steeplechase at the 2010 NCAA Outdoor Championships.

Prior to Louisville, Allen assisted at Northern Arizona, where he had a hand in guiding the Lumberjacks' men's cross country team to third at the 2003 NCAA Championships and fourth at the 2001 NCAA Championships. He also helped lead the women's cross country team to a ninth-place finish in 2001 and 15th in 2003. On the track side, Allen worked with 2004 NCAA women's steeplechase champion Ida Nilsson. In addition to his on-the-field duties at NAU, Allen managed the program's budget, travel arrangements and worked extensively with recruiting.

A native of Sugar Grove, Pa., Allen competed in cross country and track at Allegheny (Pa.) College, where he was an individual qualifier for the 1999 NCAA Cross Country Championships. Allen earned his bachelor's degree from Allegheny in 2001 and his master's degree from Northern Arizona in 2003.

Allen is married to the former Angie Reed, a native of Cincinnati, Ohio. They have two daughters, Sydney and Wren.

Allen Coaching Career
2012-Present: Associate Head Coach, Distance and Cross Country, Ohio State
2008-11: Head Cross Country Coach/Assistant Track Coach & Recruiting Coordinator, Louisville
2004-08: Assistant Coach/Recruiting Coordinator, Louisville
2001-03: Assistant Coach, Northern Arizona
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  #11  
Old 06-29-17, 02:00 PM
madman madman is offline
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The closest anyone ever comes to perfection is on their resume (or a university press release)
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  #12  
Old 06-29-17, 02:06 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Year (Freshman Class)
2012-13 (Jordan Redd)
2013-14
2014-15 (Elswick, Blank, Leitch, Mandel, Bowie)
2015-16 (Landis, Stifel transfer, Fleming transfer)
2016-17 (Lomong, Bauers, Wood)

Looks like Jordan Redd had 5 years, not sure if he was recruited by Coach Allen or the prior regime.
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  #13  
Old 06-29-17, 04:14 PM
coachwhitman coachwhitman is offline
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I'm pretty sure that Jordan was a walk on and was there prior to Coach Allen
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  #14  
Old 06-29-17, 07:06 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by madman View Post

As a team, Ohio State have NEVER won a big ten title since it began in 1908.
This is very surprising in all these years they did not put together one team that won it. I believe a number of those years there was only 8 teams.

If am correct this past year they didn't score even one distance point at the B10 conference track meet and my guess that is what got him fired. But I am not sure how much of the CC/Track scholarship money is going to distance vs the sprinter/field guys.
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Old 06-29-17, 09:56 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
If am correct this past year they didn't score even one distance point at the B10 conference track meet
Men:
10000: Mandel 14th, Leitch 19th
Steeple: Kunkel 11th
1500:
800: Fleming 6th
5000: Mandel 22, Leitch 23

Women:
10000: Frederick 14th, Stoodley 18th
Steeple: Kanney 6th
1500:
800: Weber 2nd
5000: Frederick 10th, Wiles 20th, Passwater 21, Studebaker 23

Men scored in the 800, Women in the Steeple & the 800. We want (and expect) more, but they did score.
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Old 06-30-17, 07:02 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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I have had a runner at OSU and talked with a few that had been in the CC program. No culture, no team building. Coaches worked with top few and discarded the rest.

This was with the previous coaches.......doesnt look like he changed much in his tenure to change the program.
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Old 06-30-17, 07:54 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinL View Post
Men:
10000: Mandel 14th, Leitch 19th
Steeple: Kunkel 11th
1500:
800: Fleming 6th
5000: Mandel 22, Leitch 23

Women:
10000: Frederick 14th, Stoodley 18th
Steeple: Kanney 6th
1500:
800: Weber 2nd
5000: Frederick 10th, Wiles 20th, Passwater 21, Studebaker 23

Men scored in the 800, Women in the Steeple & the 800. We want (and expect) more, but they did score.
Thanks for clarification. I should have mentioned in my post I was only thinking of men's side but clearly I forgot about the 800. But at the college level the case could be me made that the 800 is a sprint.

Does anyone know if most distance coaches coach the 800 runners in college?
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Old 06-30-17, 08:22 AM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
Thanks for clarification. I should have mentioned in my post I was only thinking of men's side but clearly I forgot about the 800. But at the college level the case could be me made that the 800 is a sprint.

Does anyone know if most distance coaches coach the 800 runners in college?
As recently as fall they had another (girls) distance coach, Sara Vergote. She has moved on and was replaced with another event coach I believe. Coach Allen had men & women both this spring.
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Old 06-30-17, 03:39 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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I don't think there is a standard for who coaches 800 runners in college. From my own experience and that of the athletes I have coached who went on to run in college, the 800 runners are mostly coached by the distance coach or by a middle distance coach. If they are 1500/800 runners then almost always the distance coach.

I think Ohio State has been a place that focuses on the sprints and field events for the span of both my own running career and coach career. A span which is well into its 4th decade now. Unless that changes they are not likely to become a distance power house. As I have had an athlete there for the past four years, and who was being recruited before that, I have followed the women's program pretty closely. On the women's side they have been more successful recruiting Ohio, and have had some more success for individuals over the past five or six years, as compared to the men and as compared to their past history.

When I started looking at their mens' performance in terms of athletes who went on to make USATF championships over the span I have been involved in TF, I found they really aren't near the bottom for D1 programs. Certainly not a powerhouse but they have had their share of success. Largely steeplechase and 1500 meters. I believe their last Big Ten individual champion was Neff in 2014 the steeple, who was also an All American in the steeple.

All of this said, as long as they are focused on sprints and field athletes they are not likely to become a distance power. They may still get the occasional stud, or kid who develops into a stud, but I don't see them become a consistent power. Maybe if they got a really good coach who could attract some post-collegiate runners they could get a few studs. But most likely any success they get will have to be driven largely by occasional kids who are really good and really want to go to OSU and trying to recruit kids who are good athletes but maybe not quite on big time programs' radars. This is an area where they mystify me, because I have had kids I felt like they should at least be talking to. (Even kids of OSU professors who wouldn't need as much money in order to get them attend.)
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Old 06-30-17, 05:39 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Not sure if they still do this, but when my daughter and I visited on a recruiting trip to OSU, they had a list of performances that recruits had to hit to be considered for scholarships and then another set to be able to walk-on. The standards were quite tough. If memory serves me, for men, you had to be sub 1:51 for scholarship consideration and sub 1:54 to even be allowed to walk-on. 4:10 1600 and 9:08 3200. Do not remember the women's , but my daughter hit the standard for a scholarship. It was funny, because some of the standards were better than all time Ohio High School records. When I pointed that out, they told me there were some type-o's. My daughter was one of two recruits that had hit the scholarship standards. She was offered what would basically be books. So, that shows what they were putting into the distance program. Some of their standards were better than what they had had on the team for years. Their standards were higher than other schools that beat them every year after year after year forever.

When my daughter asked the head coach if she could tell her what to expect as far as development as a middle distance runner/ distance runner, the story/example she gave was of a 400m runner.
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  #21  
Old 06-30-17, 06:39 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Brice Allen OUT at OSU

Psychodad, that is pretty consistent with the experience several of my former athletes had. Although the distance runner I coached who was a senior this year had a much better experience. Her official visit included a rather long discussion about her HS training and how that would influence the start of collegiate training. As well as how XC season (which she really wanted to do) would be different for her as an 800/1500 runner. As I said before, her experience with coach Allen this winter and spring was very positive, and he certainly helped her improve as a racer.
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Old 07-01-17, 11:09 AM
BLUE DEVIL 81 BLUE DEVIL 81 is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Not sure if they still do this, but when my daughter and I visited on a recruiting trip to OSU, they had a list of performances that recruits had to hit to be considered for scholarships and then another set to be able to walk-on. The standards were quite tough. If memory serves me, for men, you had to be sub 1:51 for scholarship consideration and sub 1:54 to even be allowed to walk-on. 4:10 1600 and 9:08 3200. Do not remember the women's , but my daughter hit the standard for a scholarship. It was funny, because some of the standards were better than all time Ohio High School records. When I pointed that out, they told me there were some type-o's. My daughter was one of two recruits that had hit the scholarship standards. She was offered what would basically be books. So, that shows what they were putting into the distance program. Some of their standards were better than what they had had on the team for years. Their standards were higher than other schools that beat them every year after year after year forever.


When my daughter asked the head coach if she could tell her what to expect as far as development as a middle distance runner/ distance runner, the story/example she gave was of a 400m runner.
Your assessment is spot on. My son was State Champion in Cross country and track (3200) his Sr. year. Also won the Midwest Meet of Champions running for Ohio in the 3200 against the best from Michigan and Indiana. His PR in the 3200 was 9:12. They offered him a book scholarship. He chose to go to another D1 school who basically offered him a full ride and his school competes in a big time conference. This year he ran a PR of 8:08 in the 3000 which put him at No. 8 all time at his school. I liked Coach Allen when we met him and Ohio St. treated us like kings when we went on the recruiting visit but a book scholarship was kind surprising considering my son's resume.
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Old 07-02-17, 01:23 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Originally Posted by BLUE DEVIL 81 View Post
Your assessment is spot on. My son was State Champion in Cross country and track (3200) his Sr. year. Also won the Midwest Meet of Champions running for Ohio in the 3200 against the best from Michigan and Indiana. His PR in the 3200 was 9:12. They offered him a book scholarship. He chose to go to another D1 school who basically offered him a full ride and his school competes in a big time conference. This year he ran a PR of 8:08 in the 3000 which put him at No. 8 all time at his school. I liked Coach Allen when we met him and Ohio St. treated us like kings when we went on the recruiting visit but a book scholarship was kind surprising considering my son's resume.
There are currently runners with better HS credentials getting zero aid. There is very little aid shared with the distance group.
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Old 07-02-17, 06:26 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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That is sort of the story. Why, if you are a distance runner that wants to excel in college, would you go to OSU? It's not bad that they focus on sprints and other areas and not distance. It's a choice. Just like where my daughter went, they put the $ in the distance kids and just sort of get by in other areas. The reasoning of the head coach was that Distance kids give 3 seasons and others only 2. They had very good throwers while my daughter was there and that was because they really made a big effort to find those diamonds in the ruff that had potential, but maybe lacked HS coaching. They do a good job with that and the kids are rewarded with $ if they perform. On the men's side, they work with kids that want to still run track and play football, so they have that relationship with the football coaches to make that a win win. They have given good scholarships to national elites that wanted to go there for say triple jump and long jump. but for the most part, they really recruit hard those kids that they see can be coached up and just did not have proper coaching in HS. Their bread and butter are the CC/distance kids. Even there, they don't always go for national elites, but they are good at spotting potential.

OSU seems to not only fall short on finding those diamonds in the ruff that need developed, but they take the national elites they get and they do not produce at a level that others do at other schools. At 17 and 18, my daughter could see that it was not the program for her. She did make a comment that it might be great for the kid that is a real introvert and does not need that team or family feel. She also did not like that the men and women were not part of the same team. They were very separated and that was foreign to her and just another reason she did not feel the fit. Not that it's necessarily bad one way and better another, but it was what she wanted and I'm sure there are a lot of other kids that factor that in.

Her biggest gripe was that from the academic advisors to professors etc. that she talked to during her visit, no one knew anything about the track and field or CC. It was all Football. Where she ended up, everyone they introduced her to knew something about CC and Track, or at least acted interested in it. The academic advisor she was supposed to talk to was sick and the one she ended up talking to, still knew something about CC and track and could talk to her in very specific terms of what she could expect and how it all worked. OSU people could not give specifics or even know the schedules for anything other than football.
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Old 07-03-17, 10:28 AM
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Quick questions. I walked on for throws 17 years ago for a d2 school and do not remember how many scholarships/amounts a d1 school can offer. Is it limited like baseball is with 9.9?
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Old 07-03-17, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by skins99 View Post
Quick questions. I walked on for throws 17 years ago for a d2 school and do not remember how many scholarships/amounts a d1 school can offer. Is it limited like baseball is with 9.9?
http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

Most sports have scholarship limits. However, not all schools fund up to the limit. For men's track and field, the limit is 12.6 scholarships which includes cross country. Track/XC is an equivalency sport, so partial scholarships can be awarded and are commonplace.
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Old 07-03-17, 10:58 AM
coachwhitman coachwhitman is offline
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Quick questions. I walked on for throws 17 years ago for a d2 school and do not remember how many scholarships/amounts a d1 school can offer. Is it limited like baseball is with 9.9?
In D1 the limit is 12.6 for men and for the women it's 18. I may be off on this one, but if a kid gets any academic aid from the school along with athletic aid, then all that aid combines toward the allowable total. I only bring that up because that maybe part of the issue when it comes to the offers made to athletes discussed in this thread. For instance, say a kid comes in and is offered 80% academic $$, but would only be offered books for athletics, that would count for around 85% (depending on the % of a full that books is considered at that school). At that point, you have to decide is that athlete currently or developmentally in the very near future worth that big of an investment. To make that decision, schools often look at that kids performances as compared to 1. Kids currently on the roster, 2. Conference championship performances in that kid's events as well as in 3. the National championships (NCAA, NAIA etc) to make that determination. So, while a kid may indeed do very well in Ohio HS, they may not stack up very well in the B1G (in this discussion) or the NCAA.

Some teams focus on the sprints/jumps/hurdles/relays group because that's where the bulk of the points exist in the track & field. Others prefer to go distance heavy in order to cover all 3 seasons and some opt for a balanced squad that will do well at the conference level. With the odd way that the NCAA/NAIA championship meets are configured, if you are going for high places at the national meets, you are almost forced to pick 1, maybe 2 event groups to emphasize. For quite a long time, Arkansas' men focused primarily on distance runners and horizontal jumps. 40+ NCAA titles later proved it to be a successful venture. I think we'd all like to see our state's flagship school do much better in CC and Track & Field (unless you coach at a MAC school...) particularly when you seen how much success OSU has had on other Olympic sports recently.
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Old 07-03-17, 11:41 AM
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Thanks for the break down guys. I assumed it was something along those lines.
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Old 07-03-17, 01:47 PM
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Everything you've said is consistent with what I've heard in the past.

However, I know that you've had some experience with NCAA regulations so I've got some questions for you regarding this:

Let's say you have an athlete that has competed for two years without a scholarship and that you have assigned all 12.6 scholarships for the upcoming year. If that athlete finds out in August that they've been given an academic scholarship based on outstanding performance in the classroom, would the coach then be in the position of:
  • Cutting that athlete
  • Terminating aid to/cutting another athlete
  • Telling said athlete they can't accept the award if they want to remain on the team

I understand the by-law is written to prevent less than scrupulous athletic departments from gaming the system, but it seems counter to the purpose of any university to force teams to cut athletes or reduce aid because they've been successful in the classroom.

I've heard it said the first requirement to be an OHSAA commissioner is to be born without a heart. I suppose the same could be true for NCAA officials, but I wonder if there isn't some type of grandfathering for athletes already on the team who happen to win academic $$$s after they've been on the team awhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachwhitman View Post
In D1 the limit is 12.6 for men and for the women it's 18. I may be off on this one, but if a kid gets any academic aid from the school along with athletic aid, then all that aid combines toward the allowable total. I only bring that up because that maybe part of the issue when it comes to the offers made to athletes discussed in this thread. For instance, say a kid comes in and is offered 80% academic $$, but would only be offered books for athletics, that would count for around 85% (depending on the % of a full that books is considered at that school). At that point, you have to decide is that athlete currently or developmentally in the very near future worth that big of an investment. To make that decision, schools often look at that kids performances as compared to 1. Kids currently on the roster, 2. Conference championship performances in that kid's events as well as in 3. the National championships (NCAA, NAIA etc) to make that determination. So, while a kid may indeed do very well in Ohio HS, they may not stack up very well in the B1G (in this discussion) or the NCAA.

Some teams focus on the sprints/jumps/hurdles/relays group because that's where the bulk of the points exist in the track & field. Others prefer to go distance heavy in order to cover all 3 seasons and some opt for a balanced squad that will do well at the conference level. With the odd way that the NCAA/NAIA championship meets are configured, if you are going for high places at the national meets, you are almost forced to pick 1, maybe 2 event groups to emphasize. For quite a long time, Arkansas' men focused primarily on distance runners and horizontal jumps. 40+ NCAA titles later proved it to be a successful venture. I think we'd all like to see our state's flagship school do much better in CC and Track & Field (unless you coach at a MAC school...) particularly when you seen how much success OSU has had on other Olympic sports recently.
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Old 07-03-17, 04:47 PM
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I am not sure what the answer is for an older athlete, but there are some types of academic aid that are exempted from the count for freshmen. Based on class rank, GPA and test scores. But there is no simple rule and for most merit based aid it ends up counting even if the athlete could actually meet the conditions. One of the big ones is that the school certifies those awarding the scholarship did not consider athletics. (So something like a National Merit Scholarship can be exempted.) Also, need based aid not from the school (such as a state grant) doesn't count. And yes it does happen thst an athlete to have to choose between aid and competing.

Last edited by mathking; 07-03-17 at 05:23 PM..
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