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  #151  
Old 12-22-16, 05:03 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I have no idea how legitimate this is, it was picked up on a Yahoo site, but it's on the internet, so it's right, right??

Anyway, a story floated out there that the Mets may be interested in sending Jay Bruce back to the Reds for Billy Hamilton and others.

Later in the article it states that the Mets would likely have to include either Stephen Matz or Michael Conforto, or someone like that.

Taking back Bruce's contract would make no sense for the Reds, unless they could get a guy like Matz in return also. You guys already know how much I like Hamilton, but it appears our GM Williams may not be as impressed with Billy as Jocketty was.

The bruce back to the reds was being talked about quite awhile go in some circles so it wouldnt be totally out of left field.
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  #152  
Old 12-23-16, 10:29 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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The bruce back to the reds was being talked about quite awhile go in some circles so it wouldnt be totally out of left field.
I have no idea why the Reds would want Bruce back.
  #153  
Old 12-23-16, 10:30 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I bet most Reds fans couldn't imaging Edwin Encarnacion ever getting $20 mill a year to play baseball.
  #154  
Old 01-03-17, 11:33 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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I have no idea why the Reds would want Bruce back.
That's because you never paid attention on JJ Huddle when I posted reams of stats showing you why he is a top OF in terms of productivity. You were always hung up on his hot and cold streaks. But at the end of the year, he is a very productive player.

The only reason to not want him back is $$$. Can't afford him on top of their other commitments.
  #155  
Old 01-03-17, 03:25 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
That's because you never paid attention on JJ Huddle when I posted reams of stats showing you why he is a top OF in terms of productivity. You were always hung up on his hot and cold streaks. But at the end of the year, he is a very productive player.

The only reason to not want him back is $$$. Can't afford him on top of their other commitments.
If he'd play for $500,000 sure, but he's not. And yes, I don't want him back at $10-$15 mill a year. He's not worth that. He absolutely imploded in NY last year. I was not shocked at all, he actually played fairly consistent for the Reds last year, very un-Bruce like.
  #156  
Old 01-03-17, 04:36 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Reds sign Drew Storen

Good signing imo, good veteran closer to fill the biggest hole on last year's team (bullpen). Reds might not be too bad next year. Not expecting .500 or anything, but a step in the right direction. Maybe even competitive by 2018, but probably not
  #157  
Old 01-03-17, 04:49 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I'd agree Sig, bullpen needs some help, and Storen is a good risk. Has had some success, wasn't very good last year, but was better in the 2nd half with SEattle. Bullpen likely to be Iglesias, Lorenzen, Cingrani and Storen so far. I certainly think the Reds can be a .500 team. They played .500 from the all star break on, and that with a makeshift rotation and no Homer Bailey.
  #158  
Old 01-03-17, 04:55 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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.500 would be a huge success imo, considering that a fair amount of unproven players will be getting a lot of playing time. Really sucks there's no market for Philips or Cozart.
  #159  
Old 01-03-17, 05:05 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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When fans want to see a "commitment" from the team for certain players, this is the downside. You get contracts like Phillips, Bruce last year and Votto's currently that give you little flexibility. Now Phillips played up to his contract last year IMO, and Votto is still one of the best in the game. Tough to trade Phillips, may be able to get some takers on Cozart, he's much less expensive.
  #160  
Old 01-04-17, 02:26 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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If they aren't traded, then both Phillips and Cozart will be looking at fewer at bats -- barring injuries, of course. The Reds aren't going to keep Peraza and Herrera wasting away on the bench.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Peraza play some SS, 2B, and fill in a little in the OF. Herrera should see some innings as well at SS, 2B, and 3B.
  #161  
Old 01-04-17, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
If they aren't traded, then both Phillips and Cozart will be looking at fewer at bats -- barring injuries, of course. The Reds aren't going to keep Peraza and Herrera wasting away on the bench.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Peraza play some SS, 2B, and fill in a little in the OF. Herrera should see some innings as well at SS, 2B, and 3B.
There is enough at bats to keep one, but not both. My guess is, unless there is a trade of Phillips or Cozart, Herrera begins the season in Louisville. Young guys need to play everyday. Much more likley Cozart gets moved than Phillips.
  #162  
Old 01-04-17, 09:35 PM
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If this team is going no where next year, Herrera has to play every day against MLB competition to really get better.
  #163  
Old 01-05-17, 07:29 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
If this team is going no where next year, Herrera has to play every day against MLB competition to really get better.
I agree, but no team goes into a season thinking "we are going nowhere". Every manager and player expects to win and tries to win. Reality won't set in until late May, and if they are near .500 in April/May, it could be later. So the young guys will only play if management (especially Price) feel they give them the best chance to win. Hopefully Peraza/Herrera have good springs and do well in their April ABs and just take the spots.
  #164  
Old 01-05-17, 09:50 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
If this team is going no where next year, Herrera has to play every day against MLB competition to really get better.
I agree EP, and like i said, unless Cozart or Phillips is gone. As I understand, both are under contract for 2017. You are not going to pay Brandon Phillips $13 mill in '17 to sit on the bench. Makes no financial sense at all. Cozart made $3 mill last year and its arb eligible, so he may get a little bump, but it would make more sense to sit Zack. I still think he's may be the one gone by opening day.
  #165  
Old 01-06-17, 08:36 PM
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Sounds like Phillips wants to screw over the Reds vetoing trades.
  #166  
Old 01-06-17, 10:19 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Sounds like Phillips wants to screw over the Reds vetoing trades.
Does he have kids in school ?
  #167  
Old 01-07-17, 10:48 AM
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Does he have kids in school ?
In Atlanta, I think.
  #168  
Old 01-09-17, 12:13 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the BP situation.

Here are the facts....

1. He's our best 2nd baseman
2. He's a 10/5 guy, he has the right to veto trades
3. He's signed through, through the '17 season.

Why is it so difficult for people to see any of this??? The Reds can't just give him away, they can't just sit him and pay him $14 mill to do so, all the while not getting the same 2nd base performance that he provides???

I'm amazed how people don't worry about how other people's money is spent.
  #169  
Old 01-09-17, 12:26 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Because irresponsible spending affects on field performance. No one wants to watch a crappy team play.
  #170  
Old 01-09-17, 01:50 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Because irresponsible spending affects on field performance. No one wants to watch a crappy team play.
That money is already spent, no one is trading for BP, straight up without the Reds giving some money in return to pay BP. So, as I've said all along, why pay someone else to pay 2nd base, when you're paying BP to play that position for '17? Makes no financial sense at all.
Also, his skills has not diminished enough where you have to do something. Actually had a pretty good year last year. One of his better offensively.
  #171  
Old 01-09-17, 02:11 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
That money is already spent, no one is trading for BP, straight up without the Reds giving some money in return to pay BP. So, as I've said all along, why pay someone else to pay 2nd base, when you're paying BP to play that position for '17? Makes no financial sense at all.
Also, his skills has not diminished enough where you have to do something. Actually had a pretty good year last year. One of his better offensively.
We all understand that the money is committed and BP is staying, barring a miracle trade.

What you don't seem to understand is the business concept of a "sunk cost". BP contract is a sunk cost. Sunk Costs do not factor into go-forward planning. Except in bad businesses.

The Reds are rebuilding, clearly. By letting the sunk cost decide who plays 2B, you are holding back the development of a young 2B by another year. So you are hurting the rebuild effort by saying "BP must play 2B". To continue the rebuilding, it would dictate that the young guys play 2B.
  #172  
Old 01-09-17, 02:20 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
That money is already spent, no one is trading for BP, straight up without the Reds giving some money in return to pay BP. So, as I've said all along, why pay someone else to pay 2nd base, when you're paying BP to play that position for '17? Makes no financial sense at all.
Also, his skills has not diminished enough where you have to do something. Actually had a pretty good year last year. One of his better offensively.
That is not what I was referring to. It was in response to this part of your post.

Quote:
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I'm amazed how people don't worry about how other people's money is spent.
Seriously, how do you even make it through the day?
  #173  
Old 01-09-17, 03:30 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
We all understand that the money is committed and BP is staying, barring a miracle trade.

What you don't seem to understand is the business concept of a "sunk cost". BP contract is a sunk cost. Sunk Costs do not factor into go-forward planning. Except in bad businesses.

The Reds are rebuilding, clearly. By letting the sunk cost decide who plays 2B, you are holding back the development of a young 2B by another year. So you are hurting the rebuild effort by saying "BP must play 2B". To continue the rebuilding, it would dictate that the young guys play 2B.
wolves, the rebuildings will continue on as scheduled. In 7 or the 8 position player positions, the Reds are either playing the player of the future, or someone who is simply holding a spot for the player of the future. I'd take 7 out of 8 in about anything and consider it a success. Don't overthink this.
  #174  
Old 01-09-17, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
We all understand that the money is committed and BP is staying, barring a miracle trade.

What you don't seem to understand is the business concept of a "sunk cost". BP contract is a sunk cost. Sunk Costs do not factor into go-forward planning. Except in bad businesses.

The Reds are rebuilding, clearly. By letting the sunk cost decide who plays 2B, you are holding back the development of a young 2B by another year. So you are hurting the rebuild effort by saying "BP must play 2B". To continue the rebuilding, it would dictate that the young guys play 2B.
Exactly right. Ship him out or sit him down. The Reds are going no where with him.
  #175  
Old 01-09-17, 10:27 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Yeah, BP might be my favorite Reds player ever but he should start no more than about 60 games this year. He's turned into kind of an a-hole with the way he's dealt with the local press lately, and it'd be nice if he didn't burn the bridge with the fans and organization on his way out as well
  #176  
Old 01-10-17, 07:19 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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wolves, the rebuildings will continue on as scheduled. In 7 or the 8 position player positions, the Reds are either playing the player of the future, or someone who is simply holding a spot for the player of the future. I'd take 7 out of 8 in about anything and consider it a success. Don't overthink this.
I'm not overthinking it. You are underthinking it, as usual. Let me remind you what you said, exactly: "Why is it so difficult for people to see any of this??? The Reds can't just give him away, they can't just sit him and pay him $14 mill to do so, all the while not getting the same 2nd base performance that he provides???"

So I explained to you how stupid that thinking is, in terms of a go-forward plan. The money is spent/sunk. You still need to do what makes the most sense long-term. Which is playing the young 2B.
  #177  
Old 01-10-17, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I'm not overthinking it. You are underthinking it, as usual. Let me remind you what you said, exactly: "Why is it so difficult for people to see any of this??? The Reds can't just give him away, they can't just sit him and pay him $14 mill to do so, all the while not getting the same 2nd base performance that he provides???"

So I explained to you how stupid that thinking is, in terms of a go-forward plan. The money is spent/sunk. You still need to do what makes the most sense long-term. Which is playing the young 2B.
Time for 14red to completely ignore this post.
  #178  
Old 01-10-17, 02:00 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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We'll see what happens, but I'm guessing if BP is on the Reds roster in April, he's the starting 2nd baseman. Next topic...
  #179  
Old 01-10-17, 02:23 PM
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Seriously though, BP shouldn't start more than 60 games if the Reds are serious in developing Herrera and this team for the future.
  #180  
Old 01-10-17, 03:33 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Awfully, awfully expensive bench player, for 60 games, that's $233,000 per start.
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