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  #151  
Old 10-25-17, 08:53 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Joc Pederson just tied up game 2 of the ws with a home run. 14red is so dumb.
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  #152  
Old 10-26-17, 10:52 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Joe Girardi is out as manager of the Yankees.... Should the Reds replace Price with Girardi?
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  #153  
Old 10-26-17, 11:47 AM
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  #154  
Old 10-26-17, 02:18 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Yea, I'm sure Girardi would take that phone call...
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  #155  
Old 10-26-17, 05:07 PM
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  #156  
Old 10-30-17, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Joc Pederson just tied up game 2 of the ws with a home run. 14red is so dumb.
He's certainly no Billy Hamilton...
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  #157  
Old 10-30-17, 09:13 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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The Reds have 4 players - the most in the NL who are finalists for gold gloves. Votto, Hamilton, Barnhart and Duvall. There should be an investigation if Billy does not get one.
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  #158  
Old 10-30-17, 09:25 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The Reds have 4 players - the most in the NL who are finalists for gold gloves. Votto, Hamilton, Barnhart and Duvall. There should be an investigation if Billy does not get one.
The trouble is that you haven't done any investigation. By your own admission, you don't watch the other teams very much, so you don't know how well the other candidates' play stacks up to Hamilton's.
Therefore, your opinion here is worth nothing.
You're in love with Billy, so you think he's the everloving bestest in the whole world. We get it.
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  #159  
Old 10-30-17, 10:08 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
The trouble is that you haven't done any investigation. By your own admission, you don't watch the other teams very much, so you don't know how well the other candidates' play stacks up to Hamilton's.
Therefore, your opinion here is worth nothing.
You're in love with Billy, so you think he's the everloving bestest in the whole world. We get it.
Throughout the season, I see the Reds opponents, mostly national league teams, so I see about every other centerfielder, albeit a smaller sample. I don't know that you'll find another centerfielder who plays the position any better. In past years, I think Billy's injuries have kept him out of enough games that the voters have held that against him. I think this season he's played in enough games to not be hurt by it.

I don't have any more interest in Billy than any other player, but I do think you have to give credit where credit is due.
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  #160  
Old 10-30-17, 10:51 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Throughout the season, I see the Reds opponents, mostly national league teams, so I see about every other centerfielder, albeit a smaller sample. I don't know that you'll find another centerfielder who plays the position any better. In past years, I think Billy's injuries have kept him out of enough games that the voters have held that against him. I think this season he's played in enough games to not be hurt by it.

I don't have any more interest in Billy than any other player, but I do think you have to give credit where credit is due.
Of course Hamilton is an excellent CF. That's why he's a finalist for the Gold Glove. For the record, I hope he wins it because he's a Red.
Since you clearly say he's heads and shoulders above the rest ("There should be an investigation if Billy does not get one" -- as you clearly said), then explain what he does better than each of the other finalists.

For example, how does his range compare with Inciarte's and Taylor? What about his arm strength compared with each of them? Accuracy of throws?

All you can do is fire up vague generalities, meaning your statement about an "investigation" if he doesn't win is nothing more than a bunch of homerized manlove for him.

Last edited by Monclova Steve; 10-30-17 at 03:07 PM..
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  #161  
Old 10-30-17, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I don't have any more interest in Billy than any other player...
Oh come on now. We have 100 posts to the contrary. If Billy asked you to make a baby with him, you would try.

Having said that, I happen to think he IS the best defensive CF and deserves the Gold Glove. But it isn't a landslide. Taylor, Springer, Buxton are all very near him in terms of range, glove work, and arm. And I'm sure I forgot a couple others.
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  #162  
Old 10-30-17, 12:21 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Oh come on now. We have 100 posts to the contrary. If Billy asked you to make a baby with him, you would try.
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  #163  
Old 10-30-17, 02:17 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Many of you would platoon Billy or make him a pinch runner/ defensive replacement if you could, so how can you consider him one of the best centerfielders in baseball but not start him daily? Also, Billy had 13 outfield assists, nearly doubling everyone else in the NL.
Clarifying question, don't they award gold gloves for each league, not just one overall?
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  #164  
Old 10-30-17, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Many of you would platoon Billy or make him a pinch runner/ defensive replacement if you could, so how can you consider him one of the best centerfielders in baseball but not start him daily?
Because the team would be better with Winker in the line up and Schebler in center. Billy would still steal 60+ and score 100 runs as a pinch runner. With Winker in the line up everyday the team would score another 100 runs IMO.

It's all about the team.
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  #165  
Old 10-31-17, 01:28 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The Reds have 4 players - the most in the NL who are finalists for gold gloves. Votto, Hamilton, Barnhart and Duvall. There should be an investigation if Billy does not get one.
If Hamilton hit anywhere near .275-.280 he would probably be a shoe-in. As is he likely loses this due to his bat. These Gold Glove Awards don't always go to the best defensive player, it's a mixture of that, hitting and W-L.
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  #166  
Old 10-31-17, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Because the team would be better with Winker in the line up and Schebler in center. Billy would still steal 60+ and score 100 runs as a pinch runner. With Winker in the line up everyday the team would score another 100 runs IMO...
Wow. You realize the Reds scored 753 runs this year. You think they would have scored 853 with Winker in the lineup instead of Hamilton? Winker must be better than Trout and Altuve together. He will have the highest WAR ever. This is exciting!!

I happen to agree that an OF with Duvall, Schebler, Winker is better than what we had this year offensively, and that is what I hope happens next year. But your statement is ludicrous.
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  #167  
Old 10-31-17, 03:12 PM
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Between indiandad's hilarious contract interpretations to his crazy trade scenarios that have no basis in reality, the Reds adding another 100 runs to their season total by adding Winker might top that.
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  #168  
Old 10-31-17, 03:14 PM
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at Hamilton scoring 100 runs as a pinch runner.
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  #169  
Old 10-31-17, 03:40 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Billy would have to get really good at stealing home for that to happen.
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  #170  
Old 10-31-17, 07:20 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Wow. You realize the Reds scored 753 runs this year. You think they would have scored 853 with Winker in the lineup instead of Hamilton? Winker must be better than Trout and Altuve together. He will have the highest WAR ever. This is exciting!!

I happen to agree that an OF with Duvall, Schebler, Winker is better than what we had this year offensively, and that is what I hope happens next year. But your statement is ludicrous.
WI let should get 650+ plate appearances at the lead off spot. He had an OBP of .375 that equates to 240 times on base ahead of Suarez, Votto, Gennett, Duvall etc. I'd say 100 runs scored is not unreasonable.
Pinch running Billy 162 times compared to his 188 times on base this year (he scored 85 runs). He would be on base late in games against relievers who in general are easier to steal on and therefore in scoring position more often. 80 steals and 100 runs is not out of the question.
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  #171  
Old 11-01-17, 06:26 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is online now
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http://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/stor...gold-glove-why

Quote:
Finalists: Buster Posey, Yadier Molina, Tucker Barnhart

Who will win: Yadier Molina, St. Louis Cardinals

Molina lost to Posey last year, but he will look to take back the title in 2017. Posey had a down year defensively while Molina picked his game back up. While it's possible Barnhart wins -- he has a higher SDI than either of his competitors -- I think Molina is a big enough name that he takes home his ninth Gold Glove.

Who should win: Tucker Barnhart, Cincinnati Reds

There are arguably players even more deserving than Barnhart for this award -- Manny Pina, Yasmani Grandal and Austin Hedges all finished with more runs saved than any of the three finalists, and Pina and Grandal were first and second in SDI. But among the three finalists, Barnhart has the clear advantage, saving 11 runs behind the plate compared with Molina's seven and Posey's two. His framing was below average, but he made up for it with his control of the running game. He threw out 28 would-be base stealers in 2017, five more than any other catcher, and his caught stealing rate of 41 percent was second highest among catchers with at least 10 opportunities.
Quote:
Finalists: Joey Votto, Paul Goldschmidt, Anthony Rizzo

Who will win: Paul Goldschmidt, Arizona Diamondbacks

Goldschmidt or Rizzo have won this award three of the past four seasons, and I expect it to come down to the two of them again this year. Goldschmidt saved 10 runs this season compared with Rizzo's nine and has a significantly higher SDI, which is why he gets it.

Who should win: Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds

Goldschmidt and Rizzo have the reputation, but Votto actually saved more runs than either of them this year. Votto's 11 runs saved were tied for the most among first basemen, and his 10 runs saved with his range and positioning were second to only Brandon Belt. He also started a successful double play on nine of his 13 opportunities, which was the second-highest rate in baseball among first basemen with at least five opportunities.
Quote:
Finalists: Gerardo Parra, Adam Duvall, Marcell Ozuna

Who will win: Marcell Ozuna, Miami Marlins

Ozuna came into this season with fewer than 200 total innings played in left field, but he evidently took to it very well. It helps that Starling Marte, who won the past two years, missed a significant chunk of the season, although the plan was for him to be in center field anyway, so it's possible Ozuna still could have taken home the award.

Who should win: Ozuna

Ozuna saved 11 runs in left field this season, more than any other NL left fielder and significantly more than he saved in center field last year. That includes eight runs that he saved with his range and positioning, which also led the league. My vote might have been made more difficult if Tommy Pham had been named a finalist, but as it is, Duvall's eight runs saved and Parra's four runs saved don't stack up to Ozuna's total.
Quote:
Finalists: Billy Hamilton, Michael Taylor, Ender Inciarte

Who will win: Ender Inciarte, Atlanta Braves

This award looks to be another competitive one, which is why I'm making the easy decision and picking last year's winner to repeat. Inciarte had a good season, saving the Braves five runs, but there were other players who saved more runs than he did. Still, he is second in SDI behind only Odubel Herrera, which should give him a leg up on the competition.

Who should win: Billy Hamilton, Cincinnati Reds

Hamilton is third in SDI, but first in DRS among qualified NL center fielders. Believe it or not, Hamilton actually led the group while being just average in terms of his range and positioning -- generally the most significant component of DRS -- which is likely due to his decision to play more shallow than other center fielders. He did lead all qualified center fielders with six runs saved with his arm, aided by eight kills (outfield assists without a cutoff man) that were the most among MLB center fielders.
Curious to see if 14Red agrees with this or not since he doesn't believe in the statistics that say Billy should win.
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  #172  
Old 11-01-17, 11:20 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
WI let should get 650+ plate appearances at the lead off spot. He had an OBP of .375 that equates to 240 times on base ahead of Suarez, Votto, Gennett, Duvall etc. I'd say 100 runs scored is not unreasonable.
Pinch running Billy 162 times compared to his 188 times on base this year (he scored 85 runs). He would be on base late in games against relievers who in general are easier to steal on and therefore in scoring position more often. 80 steals and 100 runs is not out of the question.
Not sure where to start with this illogical mess. Let's start with the easiest one first:

I would agree that Winkler's projected OBP would allow him to score 100 runs in this lineup. But this is not the Reds scoring "100 more runs" with Winkler in the lineup than Billy. Billy scored 85. So this is the Reds scoring 15 more runs. Geez.

First of all, it is unlikely that Billy pinch runs in 162 games. Many games the situation does not present itself in the 7/8/9th inning. There are blowout games, there are games where nobody gets on base in 7/8/9, there are games when Votto or Peraza get on base and you aren't pulling them out. So let's knock 162 back to something like 130, which is still a stretch.

But for the sake of argument, I'll allow the stupid assumption that Billy gets on base 162 times in 162 games. And I'll even allow the very flawed thinking that Billy steals 80 bases in 162 times on base. He stole far fewer this year with more times on base. 100 runs/162 times on base is 61.7%. Are you saying the Reds are going to magically bat .617 with Billy in scoring position to knock him in? Wow, that is exciting!

At some point between having an idea and typing, you need to think a little.
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  #173  
Old 11-01-17, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Not sure where to start with this illogical mess. Let's start with the easiest one first:

I would agree that Winkler's projected OBP would allow him to score 100 runs in this lineup. But this is not the Reds scoring "100 more runs" with Winkler in the lineup than Billy. Billy scored 85. So this is the Reds scoring 15 more runs. Geez.

First of all, it is unlikely that Billy pinch runs in 162 games. Many games the situation does not present itself in the 7/8/9th inning. There are blowout games, there are games where nobody gets on base in 7/8/9, there are games when Votto or Peraza get on base and you aren't pulling them out. So let's knock 162 back to something like 130, which is still a stretch.

But for the sake of argument, I'll allow the stupid assumption that Billy gets on base 162 times in 162 games. And I'll even allow the very flawed thinking that Billy steals 80 bases in 162 times on base. He stole far fewer this year with more times on base. 100 runs/162 times on base is 61.7%. Are you saying the Reds are going to magically bat .617 with Billy in scoring position to knock him in? Wow, that is exciting!

At some point between having an idea and typing, you need to think a little.
wolves, thinking has nothing to do with it. There is just this dislike for Billy because he doesn't get on base 40% of the time. He never has and he never will. My point is he SCORES as much as most because he can get into scoring position better than anybody. I actually think he should steal more bases, but having a free swinger like Cozart behind him takes alot of stealing opportunities away from him. Good for Cozart that he's discovered how to hit, but overall does it help us offensively if he swings at the first pitch or two and does not allow Billy to steal?

Now I'm ok with Winker in the leadoff postion, the other option would be to have Billy lead off and Winker in the #2 spot, he'll take alot more pitches than Cozart, who I presume will not be a Red in '18.
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  #174  
Old 11-01-17, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Not sure where to start with this illogical mess. Let's start with the easiest one first:

I would agree that Winkler's projected OBP would allow him to score 100 runs in this lineup. But this is not the Reds scoring "100 more runs" with Winkler in the lineup than Billy. Billy scored 85. So this is the Reds scoring 15 more runs. Geez.

First of all, it is unlikely that Billy pinch runs in 162 games. Many games the situation does not present itself in the 7/8/9th inning. There are blowout games, there are games where nobody gets on base in 7/8/9, there are games when Votto or Peraza get on base and you aren't pulling them out. So let's knock 162 back to something like 130, which is still a stretch.

But for the sake of argument, I'll allow the stupid assumption that Billy gets on base 162 times in 162 games. And I'll even allow the very flawed thinking that Billy steals 80 bases in 162 times on base. He stole far fewer this year with more times on base. 100 runs/162 times on base is 61.7%. Are you saying the Reds are going to magically bat .617 with Billy in scoring position to knock him in? Wow, that is exciting!

At some point between having an idea and typing, you need to think a little.
Instead of jumping to the instant reaction of "he's an idiot" like EP and Taco do, try giving some thought as to why what I said are possible and even plausible.... you know, think.


I did not say that Winker would score 100 runs more than Billy. I said he would score 100 runs and the Reds would score 100 more runs as a team with Winker leading off and Hamilton pinch running. Having Hamilton as the 4th outfielder and Peraza as the utility infielder makes the offense much better. Whether it is Cozart at SS and Suarez at 3rd or it is Suarez at SS and Senzel at 3rd it is a better lineup than with Peraza in it. Can Hamilton pinch run for an infielder not named Votto? Absolutely. Just like he can pinch run for an outfielder. That's 8 potentials to swing the bat for him then let him run. The Versatility of multiple players defensively allows that to happen.
Having Winker and his high contact, line drive hitting bat at the top of the lineup means the lower 3rd (Billy pinch running) will score far more than they did with Billy batting lead off.

Billy would face many more relievers on the mound when he pinch runs. Relievers are generally much worse at holding runners. Billy will see his SB numbers go up. His runs scored will go up with it. The teams runs scored will also go up.
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  #175  
Old 11-01-17, 07:11 PM
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Iím sold. Looking forward to the Reds putting up 6-7 runs a game.
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  #176  
Old 11-01-17, 07:50 PM
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Iím sold. Looking forward to the Reds putting up 6-7 runs a game.
Your math sucks.

Reds scored 4.65 per game in 2017
5.2 per game (100 more runs) Is not unrealistic in 2018.
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  #177  
Old 11-01-17, 08:11 PM
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Your math sucks.

Reds scored 4.65 per game in 2017
5.2 per game (100 more runs) Is not unrealistic in 2018.
Sorry, I was excited. 5.27 r/g would be the highest total for an NL team since 2008. Totally agree!
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  #178  
Old 11-02-17, 07:44 AM
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thinking has nothing to do with it.
Truer words have never been typed on Yappi.
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  #179  
Old 11-02-17, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Instead of jumping to the instant reaction of "he's an idiot" like EP and Taco do, try giving some thought as to why what I said are possible and even plausible.... you know, think.


I did not say that Winker would score 100 runs more than Billy. I said he would score 100 runs and the Reds would score 100 more runs as a team with Winker leading off and Hamilton pinch running. Having Hamilton as the 4th outfielder and Peraza as the utility infielder makes the offense much better. Whether it is Cozart at SS and Suarez at 3rd or it is Suarez at SS and Senzel at 3rd it is a better lineup than with Peraza in it. Can Hamilton pinch run for an infielder not named Votto? Absolutely. Just like he can pinch run for an outfielder. That's 8 potentials to swing the bat for him then let him run. The Versatility of multiple players defensively allows that to happen.
Having Winker and his high contact, line drive hitting bat at the top of the lineup means the lower 3rd (Billy pinch running) will score far more than they did with Billy batting lead off.

Billy would face many more relievers on the mound when he pinch runs. Relievers are generally much worse at holding runners. Billy will see his SB numbers go up. His runs scored will go up with it. The teams runs scored will also go up.
I fail to see any logic in this argument. Now let's also look at this...what is Billy's strength. If he had one thing that he does really well, what is it?? He's been nominated for gold gloves since he came on the scene. So you want to take him OFF the field, where playing defense is what he does best, so you can maybe...MAYBE, pinch run him a few games a week? Now maybe in a championship team with 3 great, proven outfielders you could use Billy this way, but we don't have that. He's our best centerfielder, and will continue to be so.
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  #180  
Old 11-02-17, 11:00 AM
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Now I'm ok with Winker in the leadoff postion, the other option would be to have Billy lead off and Winker in the #2 spot, he'll take alot more pitches than Cozart, who I presume will not be a Red in '18.
So are we going 4 OFs in 2018, softball style?
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