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  #1  
Old 02-11-16, 08:59 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Guns Save Lives!

This should be a HUGE story nationwide but I'm guessing most of you haven't heard about it:

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/p...s&id=368266751

Armed citizen saves police officers LIFE after he's set upon by a group of teenagers in Philadelphia. Why isn't this story playing around the clock on the news channels? Still think there isn't a media bias and that it's not solidly on the side of the progressives?

BTW, this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lives saved by gun owners.
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  #2  
Old 02-11-16, 09:16 PM
Senor Senor is offline
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you're drunk and posting in the wrong forum again. go to bed
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  #3  
Old 02-11-16, 09:35 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Senor View Post
you're drunk and posting in the wrong forum again. go to bed
Actually this is the right forum since "Guns saving lives" is a fact and thus is not up for debate.
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  #4  
Old 02-11-16, 10:02 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
This should be a HUGE story nationwide but I'm guessing most of you haven't heard about it:

http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/p...s&id=368266751

Armed citizen saves police officers LIFE after he's set upon by a group of teenagers in Philadelphia. Why isn't this story playing around the clock on the news channels? Still think there isn't a media bias and that it's not solidly on the side of the progressives?

BTW, this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lives saved by gun owners.
If a kid had been shot while trying to take the gun from the man, it would be a national story.
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  #5  
Old 02-12-16, 05:07 AM
Belly35 Belly35 is offline
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More CCW needed... Maybe this could have been prevented.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/12...estaurant.html
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  #6  
Old 02-12-16, 07:30 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Actually this is the right forum since "Guns saving lives" is a fact and thus is not up for debate.
"Guns kill innocent people" is also a fact.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-16, 08:00 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Guns don't save lives nor kill people.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-16, 08:05 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
"Guns kill innocent people" is also a fact.
And cars do, too.
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  #9  
Old 02-12-16, 08:06 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ted View Post
guns don't save lives nor kill people.
+1
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  #10  
Old 02-12-16, 08:06 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
And cars do, too.
This is wrong.
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  #11  
Old 02-12-16, 08:11 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
This is wrong.
For the same reasons that ' "Guns kill innocent people" is also a fact.', is wrong. Just responding in kind.
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  #12  
Old 02-12-16, 08:15 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Fair enough, my apologies. Playing off the OP's logic once again, and I don't know this for a fact, but I'd venture to say guns(or people with guns), kill more innocent lives then save them.

Moral of the story is this thread is way off on so many levels.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-16, 08:34 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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The point for me is that, while the uneasy peace of a micro- version of "Mutual Assured Destruction" as we once had in the wild west would occur, we obviously don't want to go there.

It is better than just being victims, though. Got to leave the option of self-defense on the table for those with the will to use it. We'll all be better off that way.
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  #14  
Old 02-12-16, 08:35 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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your statement maybe true Ronnie but it isn't the law abiding ccw guys killing innocent lives.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-16, 08:40 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Never said it was. Just playing off of lotr's logic which is terribly off. I'm a pro-2nd Amendment guy.
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  #16  
Old 02-12-16, 08:44 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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I am pro 2nd amendment also, and I don't think open carry is a good idea, I think background checks should be expanded. Not a fan of limiting the types of guns a person can have though.
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  #17  
Old 02-12-16, 08:48 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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I agree with you on the background checks and not limiting the types of guns people can own. Out of curiosity why don't you think open carry is a good idea?
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  #18  
Old 02-12-16, 08:51 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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It doesn't do any good at all for the pro 2nd amendment guys, in fact it rallies people out of fear against. Out of sight out of mind. Plus you lose the element of surprise. If someone was casing out a joint to rob the open carry guy is the first victim.
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  #19  
Old 02-12-16, 08:52 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Same reasons you don't slap your deer kills on the top of your car.
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  #20  
Old 02-12-16, 08:57 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
Never said it was. Just playing off of lotr's logic which is terribly off. I'm a pro-2nd Amendment guy.
Maybe I wasn't clear but this thread is only secondarily about "Guns". But first to your points:

* Of course "guns save lives" or more precisely, the use of guns can save
lives.

* Of course the opposite is also true that the use of "guns takes innocent lives".

* I feel safer knowing there are CCW guys out there. The number of instances where folks with concealed carry thwarted criminal activity is higher then you think. The reason we are not aware of the full extent to which the use of firearms by law abiding citizens protects life & property is because of a conspiracy of silence by the press.

This last point is the main reason I posted this thread. The amazing thing about the story I linked to isn't that a guy saved a life using a gun it's that the story has hardly made a ripple in Main Stream Media coverage.

By any objective measure this story is far more interesting & compelling then the Zimmerman/Martin shooting. Heck, a group of "teens" are on the verge of KILLING a police officer and a brave citizen steps in and saves the officers life. The entire event taking place in one of America's largest cities! This is made for TV stuff. So why so quiet?

Funny how so much of the press is leading the charge to "change" the 2nd amendment to fit their progressive narrative. Maybe we aught to be looking at the FIRST AMENDMENT instead. You know the one that gives the "press" the freedom to twist a story and advocate for a narrative rather then reporting the news. Just a thought!
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  #21  
Old 02-12-16, 08:57 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
It doesn't do any good at all for the pro 2nd amendment guys, in fact it rallies people out of fear against. Out of sight out of mind. Plus you lose the element of surprise. If someone was casing out a joint to rob the open carry guy is the first victim.
Makes sense, but we see a lot of open carry in many places without much of a problem it seems.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-16, 08:58 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
Makes sense, but we see a lot of open carry in many places without much of a problem it seems.
Yeah you do see open carry without problems.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-16, 09:08 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
* I feel safer knowing there are CCW guys out there. The number of instances where folks with concealed carry thwarted criminal activity is higher then you think. The reason we are not aware of the full extent to which the use of firearms by law abiding citizens protects life & property is because of a conspiracy of silence by the press.
I can respect that. I personally have never really felt any positive or negative reactions toward CCW people. Are there numbers or stats to back that up? How many are we looking at on a yearly basis? Instances where concealed carriers thwart criminal activity that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
By any objective measure this story is far more interesting & compelling then the Zimmerman/Martin shooting. Heck, a group of "teens" are on the verge of KILLING a police officer and a brave citizen steps in and saves the officers life. The entire event taking place in one of America's largest cities! This is made for TV stuff. So why so quiet?
I know this is an opinion but I completely disagree and I'm sure the majority of people would. No matter what side you were on during the Zimmerman/Martin case it carried FAR more entertainment value than the story we have here. The main reason this isn't a story, and I'm sure you know this, is that it isn't controversial. The news/media loves controversy. The gun narrative is very controversial, and has been for quite some time. Now, I'm sure the creator of the narrative could be debated, but regardless it's there, and that's what sells.
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  #24  
Old 02-12-16, 09:13 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
If a kid had been shot while trying to take the gun from the man, it would be a national story.
Bingo!

The lack of coverage by the MSM must mean that CCW folks saving lives is very common, sort of the equivalent of a "dog bites man" story. So which is it MSM? Is it a "dog bites man" story so no one cares or is it a "man bites dog" story and everyone is interested?

If this is a "dog bites man" story, then when it comes around to debating "gun rights" you should see the MSM telling us how important private gun use is in maintaining law & order. I don't know about you folks but I don't see much in the way of that argument in MSM articles on "guns". Now on the other hand if this story represents a rare "man bites dog" event, then I would expect the MSM to cover it since every time we have this argument folks opine that "the press covers everything that's interesting and will make them money".

It just seems bloody obvious that the national MSM doesn't cover these stories broadly because they go against their "anti gun" narrative. They need to be called out on it more often.
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  #25  
Old 02-12-16, 09:31 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
.
I know this is an opinion but I completely disagree and I'm sure the majority of people would. No matter what side you were on during the Zimmerman/Martin case it carried FAR more entertainment value than the story we have here. The main reason this isn't a story, and I'm sure you know this, is that it isn't controversial. The news/media loves controversy. The gun narrative is very controversial, and has been for quite some time. Now, I'm sure the creator of the narrative could be debated, but regardless it's there, and that's what sells.
You're right it's only an opinion but IMO "heroism" is often a big seller and a story like this guy saving the life of the police officer seems very compelling. In contrast an over zealous guy "protecting" his neighborhood killing a youth who made a number of bad decisions in jumping the guy is a lot less entertaining then it is tragic.

But the Zimmerman/Martin story allowed the press to spin their progressive narrative, particularly on guns and race. So we had the spectacle of the term "white Hispanic" to inject the black/white conflict into the story and the POTUS claiming a special kinship to Martin (he looks like my son would if I had a son). Fortunately to most of the country the story looked like the tragedy it was and the POTUS & progressive narrative came off looking the fool.

Now in the link I posted you have several aspects of the story that go against the "narrative". The biggest are:

* Private gun use does save lives. There is a very good reason to be armed in America

* Not sure the demographics of the "teens" but I suspect they are African American and this kind of story does nothing to advance the narrative that black kids are being "murdered" all the time by police. In fact it speaks to the opposite being a very real concern.

* Police who work in urban areas are at special risk and it's this legitimate "fear" that drives their strained relationship with the black community more then any latent racism.
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  #26  
Old 02-12-16, 09:41 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Can not prove how many lives are saved by CCW, but can somewhat prove how many are taken.

Open carry. Do not believe is a good idea. I carry concealed for a reason- if I am in trouble I want the element of surprise on my side!

If someone who means me harm sees a firearm on me, they will likely shoot me first before I see them. I believe conceal carry exponentially saves more lives of innocent victims than open carry would.

All that said, I have had it pounded into my head how foolish it is to try to use my firearm to protect anyone other than my family and friends. Not knowing the background of a situation is a good way to do something that puts you in prison, takes the life of the perp instead of the victim, or gets yourself killed when someone else mistakes you as the villain.
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  #27  
Old 02-12-16, 10:05 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Boy did I get sucked in. Saved his LIFE (in caps)? Ok drama queen.

I am sure there are much better examples of armed citizens SAVING LIVES. Not as many as there are of toddlers and small children shooting someone or getting shot accidentally, but it does occur periodically. Thank God none of the murderous juveniles were armed.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-16, 11:12 AM
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MOUNT-UNION82 MOUNT-UNION82 is offline
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I'll never quite understood why some people are so fervently against the idea that people have an inherent right to defend themselves. their families and other citizens from harm.
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  #29  
Old 02-12-16, 11:23 AM
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I'll never quite understood why some people are so fervently against the idea that people have an inherent right to defend themselves. their families and other citizens from harm.
What is the highest powered weapon you'd be comfortable with being legal for personal ownership?
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  #30  
Old 02-12-16, 11:34 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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The old tired & true "wanna take our guns away" straw man. Works every time.
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