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  #1  
Old 01-18-18, 10:05 AM
StarstoShine StarstoShine is offline
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The top Ohio High School Strength & Conditioning programs/facilities

How important our off season Strength & Conditioning programs? What schools in Ohio offer the best Fitness/facilities?? How important is a certified Fitness trainer for a program or school? What equipment is recommended for these facilities? Name your school and post pics of the top facilities in Ohio.
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  #2  
Old 01-18-18, 11:49 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Way overrated IMO. Learning how to block and tackle properly is much more important.
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Old 01-18-18, 12:06 PM
candoattitude candoattitude is offline
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The good ones put in ALOT of work...year round.
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  #4  
Old 01-18-18, 12:08 PM
bop bop is online now
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Way overrated IMO. Learning how to block and tackle properly is much more important.
Agreed, but if all else is equal (coaching, attitude, will to win) the stronger guy is going to win.
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Old 01-18-18, 01:39 PM
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It’s not the facilities...it’s the effort put forth in the facilities. You can have a complete dump, but if you bust your butt you’ll get results.
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Old 01-18-18, 02:44 PM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Bill Clark Weight Room




cold in winter


hot in summer



if you work hard and lifted for three years and pass the weight lifting test
going into your senior year.

your name went up on the wall
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  #7  
Old 01-21-18, 11:29 AM
drew2732 drew2732 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Way overrated IMO. Learning how to block and tackle properly is much more important.
The stronger, faster, leaner guy is going to win 8/10 battles.

Strength and conditioning is THE most important aspect of a football program.

Toughness comes from being able to physically dominate your opponent. If you're 190 lbs, skinny fat, and you can barely dead lift 225, it really doesn't matter how 'tough' you think you are- You're going to get manhandled by a 190 pound player with similar genetics from a program who takes strength and conditioning seriously.

Baby boomers don't seem to get this. They all just think that wins are going to be handed to them if they are 'tough' enough. Not true at all, programs have got to be consistent and smart in the off-season if they want to be successful.

Also, being physically strong enables you to improve your technique quickly and more efficiently. If you don't develop good basic strength, good luck perfecting the tackle or firing out low and quick off the ball.

I agree with others about equipment, you don't need most of it. Most schools could get by with power racks, a tire or two and some free weights.

Last edited by drew2732; 01-21-18 at 01:04 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-21-18, 02:21 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew2732 View Post


The stronger, faster, leaner guy is going to win 8/10 battles.

Strength and conditioning is THE most important aspect of a football program.

Toughness comes from being able to physically dominate your opponent. If you're 190 lbs, skinny fat, and you can barely dead lift 225, it really doesn't matter how 'tough' you think you are- You're going to get manhandled by a 190 pound player with similar genetics from a program who takes strength and conditioning seriously.

Baby boomers don't seem to get this. They all just think that wins are going to be handed to them if they are 'tough' enough. Not true at all, programs have got to be consistent and smart in the off-season if they want to be successful.

Also, being physically strong enables you to improve your technique quickly and more efficiently. If you don't develop good basic strength, good luck perfecting the tackle or firing out low and quick off the ball.

I agree with others about equipment, you don't need most of it. Most schools could get by with power racks, a tire or two and some free weights.
Didn't say conditioning was not important, just believe weight lifting is over rated. Practicing until a player can run a play in his sleep is much more important. I definitely agree that having the latest and greatest in weightlifting equipment is a waste of money.
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Old 01-21-18, 03:00 PM
drew2732 drew2732 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Didn't say conditioning was not important, just believe weight lifting is over rated. Practicing until a player can run a play in his sleep is much more important. I definitely agree that having the latest and greatest in weightlifting equipment is a waste of money.
Maybe if you're a soccer team. At least 2-3 years of a solid weight training program is essential if you want to be a great football player..especially a great lineman. It's pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to win a state championship in 2018 without an effective weight lifting program...at least in Ohio.

If your opponent's D-Line can overpower and physically dominate your O-Line (or vice versa), no amount of practice is going to be able to help you.

Last edited by drew2732; 01-21-18 at 03:29 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-18, 03:57 PM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Anyone minimizing strength training comes from a program where it is not important and niether is winning
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  #11  
Old 01-21-18, 05:39 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Stating technique more important isn't the same as minimizing strength training and no, stronger guy isn't going to win. Technique and endurance guy is going to win the most "battles" AND have more skills relevant to future. Even the "strength" (weightlifting) coaches are going to teach technique in that regard.

So throwing all the semantics aside as to where those strength/technique lines are crossing, I'm not presuming some new fancy smancy doesn't have benefits but equipment available to the typical teams isn't near as important as who is there to teach them how to use it properly. If I were investing limited money, it wouldn't be on fancy equipment. That's more for those with money to spare looking for a recruiting advantage.
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Old 01-21-18, 06:07 PM
drew2732 drew2732 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Stating technique more important isn't the same as minimizing strength training and no, stronger guy isn't going to win. Technique and endurance guy is going to win the most "battles" AND have more skills relevant to future. Even the "strength" (weightlifting) coaches are going to teach technique in that regard.

So throwing all the semantics aside as to where those strength/technique lines are crossing, I'm not presuming some new fancy smancy doesn't have benefits but equipment available to the typical teams isn't near as important as who is there to teach them how to use it properly. If I were investing limited money, it wouldn't be on fancy equipment. That's more for those with money to spare looking for a recruiting advantage.
But the guy with more strength is likely to have better technique..It's one big circle and I think core strength comes before anything. And I'm not talking about being able to bench 300lbs, I'm talking about functional strength.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-18, 06:18 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Way overrated IMO. Learning how to block and tackle properly is much more important.
This is THE dumbest remark I've ever heard. Please find me a successful program that doesn't lift weights. You can have the best techniques and be sound on fundamental techniques, but if you can't benchpress 135 pounds, your team WILL lose, period.
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  #14  
Old 01-21-18, 06:19 PM
drew2732 drew2732 is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
this is the dumbest remark i've ever heard. Please find me a successful program that doesn't lift weights. You can have the best techniques and be sound on fundamental techniques, but if you can't benchpress 135 pounds, your team will lose, period.
100% THIS. Most programs today would absolutely derail teams from the 1970's..and it has very little to do with technique, hard work, toughness or scheme and everything to do with modern nutrition, training and recovery.

It's really grinds my gears when baby boomers have the nerve to bring up toughness. Are they completely blind to the fact that the kids today would absolutely wipe the floor with the teams they grew up playing on?

Last edited by drew2732; 01-21-18 at 06:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-21-18, 06:24 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew2732 View Post
But the guy with more strength is likely to have better technique..It's one big circle and I think core strength comes before anything. And I'm not talking about being able to bench 300lbs, I'm talking about functional strength.

I think it depends upon what program you're talking about. We're talking the entire state. As for "one big circle," I acknowledged that.

Quote:
So throwing all the semantics aside as to where those strength/technique lines are crossing
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  #16  
Old 01-21-18, 06:28 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken
Way overrated IMO. Learning how to block and tackle properly is much more important.
This is THE dumbest remark I've ever heard. Please find me a successful program that doesn't lift weights. You can have the best techniques and be sound on fundamental techniques, but if you can't benchpress 135 pounds, your team WILL lose, period.
Then you've not heard much because your acerbic response and inability to understand relativism is way dumber.

He was ranking. Not saying "don't life weights."

The question posed in the OP was
Quote:
How important our off season Strength & Conditioning programs?
That's asking for a ranking of priorities, not an elimination of them. Using your extreme to the other direction in the hopes you might see the absurdity of YOUR response, if all you have is a strength program, then all you have is a powerlifting team, not a football team. If you have a bunch of strong kids not knowing how to use that strength, all you have is injuries and kids getting put on their butts by weaker kids.

It's still a game of intelligence and technique. Conditioning to endurance is certainly important in the near term and in the long term health. Strength would be last on limited time and budget.


Related: I watched the Okie, Okie St game, the first time I saw Trae Young. I noted how under-developed he looked, relative to most of what is being highly recruited. Not sure how that will play on his endurance but it's at least anecdotal, technique is the more important skill. in wrestling, how much "off-season" time is going towards technique vs strength? Technique will always be the bigger priority.

Last edited by eastisbest; 01-21-18 at 06:42 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-18, 07:01 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Then you've not heard much because your acerbic response and inability to understand relativism is way dumber.

He was ranking. Not saying "don't life weights."

The question posed in the OP was
That's asking for a ranking of priorities, not an elimination of them. Using your extreme to the other direction in the hopes you might see the absurdity of YOUR response, if all you have is a strength program, then all you have is a powerlifting team, not a football team. If you have a bunch of strong kids not knowing how to use that strength, all you have is injuries and kids getting put on their butts by weaker kids.

It's still a game of intelligence and technique. Conditioning to endurance is certainly important in the near term and in the long term health. Strength would be last on limited time and budget.


Related: I watched the Okie, Okie St game, the first time I saw Trae Young. I noted how under-developed he looked, relative to most of what is being highly recruited. Not sure how that will play on his endurance but it's at least anecdotal, technique is the more important skill. in wrestling, how much "off-season" time is going towards technique vs strength? Technique will always be the bigger priority.
I again disagree. Most of the bigger/stronger/faster teams are the ones that win, despite technique. At the high school level, you are much more likely to see a someone get out-physicalled than out-techniqued. Winton Woods in Cincy is a great example. Many times they are sloppy in what they do, but they out physical teams.

I would agree with you about Trae Young. He is smaller, but at the college level, about everyone is similar to physical strength, so technique is super important.

In high school, there is a huge disparity from 15-18 year olds. Some 18 year olds look like 40 year old men. Others look 14. The lifting is super important to help close that gap. No amount of perfect technique unfortunately can overcome those physical specimens. I was coaching a team against Elder when Kyle Rudolph was on it. We bracketed him all night, great technique, but he out physicalled my players, all night, and had a career night. I also saw a game in 2016 where a team had a great game-plan against Dayton Dunbar & their stud WR. Those DBs all over him, but he jumped out of the stadium to score twice, in double coverage.

On a recruiting note, many highly touted recruits are simply big physical specimens, and extremely sloppy and poor with their techniques. They are heavily recruited for their strength mainly, because colleges can teach fundamentals, not super-human strength.

I will say that the facilities don't matter. My favorite teams are those that get after it with poor facilities, as it leads to better "functional strength" as a previous poster stated. They are forced to do much body weight exercises which increases this, and will also increase your endurance. The better facilities I think can make teams soft or complacent (not all teams but it happens). Ft. Thomas Highlands in NKY is an example. They dominated when they had the worst weight room I have ever seen, ever. They build a multi-level amazing weight facility with flex spaces and even indoor turf of like 30 yards. Ever since then, they get pushed around.

I'm not saying technique doesn't matter, it does, and as a player and coach I was always a stickler for technique. But in high school, if you can't compete strenght/speed wise, then you are toast, period.
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Old 01-21-18, 07:57 PM
Vinegar Vinegar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
This is THE dumbest remark I've ever heard. Please find me a successful program that doesn't lift weights. You can have the best techniques and be sound on fundamental techniques, but if you can't benchpress 135 pounds, your team WILL lose, period.
Guys who believe lifting is over rated aren't Division I or II guys. If you don't have strong hard working dudes that devote 4 days a week year round, you don't have a chance. That's the cost of doing business with the big boys.
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Old 01-21-18, 08:27 PM
Egret Egret is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Stating technique more important isn't the same as minimizing strength training and no, stronger guy isn't going to win. Technique and endurance guy is going to win the most "battles" AND have more skills relevant to future. Even the "strength" (weightlifting) coaches are going to teach technique in that regard.

So throwing all the semantics aside as to where those strength/technique lines are crossing, I'm not presuming some new fancy smancy doesn't have benefits but equipment available to the typical teams isn't near as important as who is there to teach them how to use it properly. If I were investing limited money, it wouldn't be on fancy equipment. That's more for those with money to spare looking for a recruiting advantage.
You're right. Look what Rocky did to Ivan Drago in Rocky IV with the most primitive of training equipment compared to the scientific wonders Drago had. LOL.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-18, 08:40 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinegar View Post
Guys who believe lifting is over rated aren't Division I or II guys. If you don't have strong hard working dudes that devote 4 days a week year round, you don't have a chance. That's the cost of doing business with the big boys.
It's no different down in D6. In order to win a state championship, equal importance has to be taken in teaching fundamentals and having a rigorous weight program. Among other factors
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  #21  
Old 01-22-18, 07:11 AM
Cougarfan22 Cougarfan22 is offline
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I am biased but you need to see the new 11,000 sq ft weight room that Hoban opened in 2015. This along with a full time strength and conditioning coach is a major part of the football team’s success and 3 state championships. This facility is big enough and equipped to handle multiple teams at the same time. All of their sports teams are going to get stronger. The staff challenges these kids in the off season and they lift every day during the season M-Thursday. If you have watched this team they are just bigger and stronger and wear teams down in the second half. Kids have bought in and do not miss scheduled work outs. Staff is on top of every kid and are required to lift if they want to play.
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  #22  
Old 01-22-18, 07:42 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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I do agree with the point that the baby boomers tend to downplay the importance of weight training. And I feel that that is to our detriment. As with everything else, the game evolves. And if you do not stay up with the times, the game will pass you by. The players get bigger, faster, stronger; and to rely solely upon what has worked in the past isn't going to get it done. Without a weight training regiment, a player will simply not be as ready to compete compared to a player who takes advantage of that type of program.
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  #23  
Old 01-22-18, 10:15 AM
Bobby77 Bobby77 is offline
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Strength and conditioning is a broad spectrum to include not only strength but cardio, flexibility, hydration and diet. A good off season program can supplement for secondary/dual sports. The old school benefit of dual sports vs being a single sport athlete is because the secondary sports create a well rounded athlete. An appropriate S&C program can do that to an extent vs just sitting around waiting for your single sport season.
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  #24  
Old 01-22-18, 06:42 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarstoShine View Post
How important our off season Strength & Conditioning programs?
Most important aspect of any program.
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  #25  
Old 01-22-18, 07:04 PM
Off_Tackle08 Off_Tackle08 is offline
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When’s the last time anyone watched the significantly stronger/faster team lose on the football field? I think your strength and conditioning program comes 2nd behind your character building and then followed by scheme. You can run a very fundamental offense/defense but if you’re getting your butt whopped in the trenches... you’re probably losing ball games. I’m not saying you need 15 kids on your team who bench over 300lbs and run sub 4.7 40s but you can’t have 11 guys who know what they’re doing but physically just can’t.
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Old 01-22-18, 08:17 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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We have a discussion focused on the top 5% programs. An NFL training room is not going to make most teams competitive with that top 5%. MOST teams in this state are needing to teach their kids fundamentals of the RULES of the game, let alone how to play as a team, as an individual and how not to get damaged or damage others.

Technique >>>> strength training. In a city school just trying to field a team? That weight room is there to give kids a place to be in Summer. They might get stronger, but they'll be no better the football player or athlete if they're not taught the game and how to play their position.

So the question was about "how important." A poster was derided for presuming the strength training was over-rated as opposed to using limited time to teach how to play the game and I would agree with that poster. The strength training these kids need just to play doesn't require a lot of dollar fancy. They played a pretty good brand of football in the 60s, the 70s, the 90s... without gizmos. They got their muscle groups balanced by playing three sports.
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Old 01-22-18, 09:29 PM
drew2732 drew2732 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post

Technique >>>> strength training. In a city school just trying to field a team? That weight room is there to give kids a place to be in Summer. They might get stronger, but they'll be no better the football player or athlete if they're not taught the game and how to play their position.

So the question was about "how important." A poster was derided for presuming the strength training was over-rated as opposed to using limited time to teach how to play the game and I would agree with that poster. The strength training these kids need just to play doesn't require a lot of dollar fancy. They played a pretty good brand of football in the 60s, the 70s, the 90s... without gizmos. They got their muscle groups balanced by playing three sports.
Not if you're interested in having a winning season. If you're just trying to field a team you might as well stay home.

Again, I still disagree. Most HS teams today with any kind of competent weight lifting/training program would absolutely wipe the floor with their father's 1978 team. It has nothing to do with technique or toughness and everything to do with proper training- especially in the offseason. It's perfectly fine if they want to play other sports, but if they're a one sport athlete they'd better be in the weight room 3-4 days a week

I agree that you don't need a bunch of gizmos..but by the time you're a senior you'd better be deadlifting, squating and cleaning much more than you could as a freshman. I'll say it again, If your opponent's D-Line can overpower and physically dominate your O-Line (or vice versa), no amount of practice or technique is going to be able to help you. Centerville is/was a great example of this. They used to churn out great powerful O-lines. It didn't matter how much you prepared, or how good your technique was, or how tough you thought you were- They would just pound the ball down your throat. Not saying they had bad technique, but they were definitely much stronger and more explosive than the average HS O-line. For some reason, they were never able to win state, and they've seem to have lost a bit of their swagger in recent seasons, especially at the O-line position, but at the end of the day they're still a great program and a perennial contender in SW Ohio.

Last edited by drew2732; 01-22-18 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 01-22-18, 10:37 PM
Bobby77 Bobby77 is offline
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S&C is the backbone of any football program at any level from HS varsity on up. Period.
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  #29  
Old 01-23-18, 11:54 AM
sportfan97 sportfan97 is offline
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I can say for a fact that strength and conditioning is a major part of Lancasterís football program. They play in the toughest division of the OCC. they never have the athletes that the other schools have at every position (3-4 players start both ways every year). The coaching staff knows that if they canít match a teams speed they have to exceed their strength. Itís also the reason they have chosen to run the wing-t offense they run every year. Some years they might win 4 games but there are also many years they win 7-10 games too.

This year they played Pickerington Central at Central and lost 14-13. The Lancaster team maybe had 2-3 players with the skill and athleticism to play D1 college football on their roster compared to a Central team that had 3-4 D1 commits on both sides of the ball. A big reason they were competitive against them was the strength and physicality they played with.


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Old 01-23-18, 01:10 PM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I do agree with the point that the baby boomers tend to downplay the importance of weight training. And I feel that that is to our detriment. As with everything else, the game evolves. And if you do not stay up with the times, the game will pass you by. The players get bigger, faster, stronger; and to rely solely upon what has worked in the past isn't going to get it done. Without a weight training regiment, a player will simply not be as ready to compete compared to a player who takes advantage of that type of program.
Speak for yourself. I'm not sure why this was even mentioned by a previous post. Guys I hang with my age understand the importance of weight training in the off season. In the end when you combine technique with a dude who's been killing it in the weight shed you have an awesome combination.

The comment earlier about teams today versus the 70s is dead on. Part of the reason Moeller rose to such dominance was because of their weight lifting in the off season. Bill Clark, who worked at P&G but was a physical fitness guru, befriended Coach Faust and Bill opened his basement to the Moeller team. He had pullies set up with old wires attached to buckets full of old railroad nails. His bench press station used old sewer lids for a long time. It was quite a crude set up but it worked.

In the end you can have state of the art all you want but it doesn't do any good if it's not used and there's not a strength coach that knows how to motivate.
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