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  #61  
Old 01-15-18, 02:41 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
You're out of your mind if you think Denver or New York are going to give up that much for the #1 overall. Hell the Giants are drafting #2, why would they give up that much to move up one spot. If Rosen or Darnold is taken #1, they can take the other at #2 similar to what the Eagles did with Wentz once Goff was off the board. Nice fantasy though.
I vaguely remember the Redskins giving up 3 first round and a 2nd round pick to move up 3 or 4 spots to get RG III ... last year the Bears traded additional 3 picks (3, 3, & 4) picks to trade places ... and their was not much competition for that pick ... while I agree the Giants would not have to give up as much, unless they really like Rosen over Darnold ... but the Broncos and Jets would give something like that ... I don't know who the exact players could be ... I really don't know their rosters ... I was just using them as example of a good young player ... that would only be giving up and additional 2nd & 3rd round picks plus a good young player to trade places ... it has been done before.
Also believe the Eagles gave up 4 or 5 picks to get the Browns #2 ... an additional 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to move up 6 spots or did I dream that also?
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  #62  
Old 01-15-18, 03:10 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Poorly run organizations have made bad moves in the past. Denver and NYG aren't of those franchises.
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  #63  
Old 01-15-18, 03:17 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I vaguely remember the Redskins giving up 3 first round and a 2nd round pick to move up 3 or 4 spots to get RG III ... last year the Bears traded additional 3 picks (3, 3, & 4) picks to trade places ... and their was not much competition for that pick ... while I agree the Giants would not have to give up as much, unless they really like Rosen over Darnold ... but the Broncos and Jets would give something like that ... I don't know who the exact players could be ... I really don't know their rosters ... I was just using them as example of a good young player ... that would only be giving up and additional 2nd & 3rd round picks plus a good young player to trade places ... it has been done before.
Also believe the Eagles gave up 4 or 5 picks to get the Browns #2 ... an additional 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to move up 6 spots or did I dream that also?
Multiple picks is not a dream. Thinking you can get NYG or Denver to part ways with their #1 picks from last season's draft is. Engram was the NYG BEST WR this year. Bolles will be a starter when healthy. You don't trade rookie players to move up in the next season's draft unless they're a bust. But if they're a bust why would anyone trade for them?

You moved the goalpost because it was pointed out how stupid that move would be. This post isn't even close to the one you had on the previous page.
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  #64  
Old 01-15-18, 03:32 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Multiple picks is not a dream. Thinking you can get NYG or Denver to part ways with their #1 picks from last season's draft is. Engram was the NYG BEST WR this year. Bolles will be a starter when healthy. You don't trade rookie players to move up in the next season's draft unless they're a bust. But if they're a bust why would anyone trade for them?

You moved the goalpost because it was pointed out how stupid that move would be. This post isn't even close to the one you had on the previous page.
read the first post again ... I believe I said I didn't know their rosters well enough to know which young players it could be .... and I admitted I was wrong about the Giants .... they wouldn't have to give up as much ... the point is that if the Browns don't want the QBs, they could get a haul from these other teams AND still have two top 5/6 draft picks this year ... I would prefer they get an established player instead of all draft picks ... sorry I didn't explain it well enough the first time.
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  #65  
Old 01-15-18, 03:54 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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But that's the thing, you don't give up an established young player for draft picks, even if you're going after a QB of the future. I understand why you wouldn't want the picks since a draft pick can be hit or miss, but that's why those are traded much more often than players.
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  #66  
Old 01-15-18, 04:30 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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The team Jeff Fisher drove into the ground makes the playoffs while his journeyman QB leads another team to the NFC finals. More lines for his resume.
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  #67  
Old 01-16-18, 05:41 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
You're out of your mind if you think Denver or New York are going to give up that much for the #1 overall. Hell the Giants are drafting #2, why would they give up that much to move up one spot. If Rosen or Darnold is taken #1, they can take the other at #2 similar to what the Eagles did with Wentz once Goff was off the board. Nice fantasy though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Trubisky

Quote:
Trubisky was drafted by the Chicago Bears in the first round with the second overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft (after defensive end Myles Garrett was selected by the Cleveland Browns first overall). The Bears moved up from the third overall pick by trading the San Francisco 49ers two third-round picks and a fourth-round pick.[25][26]
And of course swapping the 2 for the 3. Lynch still got the guy he wanted in the first round, too.

Elway likes QBs

Shurmur appears to be in line for NYG. He'd like a solid QB in his second chance as a HC.
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  #68  
Old 01-16-18, 05:43 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
It's a classic overreaction this morning to devalue the QB position
desperation arguments
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  #69  
Old 01-16-18, 10:15 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
The team Jeff Fisher drove into the ground makes the playoffs while his journeymen QBs lead 2 other teams to the NFC finals. More lines for his resume.
Fixed that for you. Keenum was Foles' back up.
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  #70  
Old 01-16-18, 11:03 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Trubisky



And of course swapping the 2 for the 3. Lynch still got the guy he wanted in the first round, too.

Elway likes QBs

Shurmur appears to be in line for NYG. He'd like a solid QB in his second chance as a HC.
Are you trying to show me that this has happened recently or that it is incredibly stupid to do so?

I'm sure Denver would love to move up to grab a QB (the Giants can get one without moving), but NY is not giving up Engram and Denver is not giving up Bolles. There's a reason teams rarely include actual players in draft day deals, especially young guys.
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  #71  
Old 01-16-18, 11:08 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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No one is undervaluing the QB position. What people are noting, however, is that it isn't the end-all that many fans want to make it out to be. Drafting talent to build a high quality roster should not be secondary to finding a QB.
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  #72  
Old 01-16-18, 04:11 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
No one is undervaluing the QB position. What people are noting, however, is that it isn't the end-all that many fans want to make it out to be. Drafting talent to build a high quality roster should not be secondary to finding a QB.
You are acting like the Browns have to choose ... the have mega draft picks ... 2 of the top 4 ... and 4 in the top 40 ... 10 to 12 overall .... they have enough picks to take a QB and still get quite a few other good players ... and that is not counting their mega cap space ... if there was a year to gamble on a QB this would be it.

Last edited by joesports; 01-16-18 at 04:33 PM..
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  #73  
Old 01-16-18, 04:32 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Are you trying to show me that this has happened recently or that it is incredibly stupid to do so?

I'm sure Denver would love to move up to grab a QB (the Giants can get one without moving), but NY is not giving up Engram and Denver is not giving up Bolles. There's a reason teams rarely include actual players in draft day deals, especially young guys.
You are not also factoring in the Jets-Giants thing ... there is no way the Giants would want the Jets to jump in front of them and get the QB they would want ... teams will give up players (maybe not Bollas/Engram) if it is the difference between getting the first pick or not ... with all this said ... I really don't think the Browns are going to trade the first pick ... unless they like Allen/Mayfield better than Rosen/Darnold ... there are going to be GMs that really like Allen ... his stats don't jump out at you ... but his talent does ... he reminds me similar to Mahomes ... he had tons of talent but also flaws in his footwork ... some teams believe that is fixable ... who drafted Mahomes last year ... oh, that was Dorsey ... just saying it is something to think about.
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  #74  
Old 01-16-18, 04:43 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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I also watched the last play from this game again ... can anyone tell me why the Saints guarded the 5 yard out and the 12 yard out with the underneath coverages and left the deep out guy alone ... why in the world would you cover the short route and let the deep guy go??????????
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  #75  
Old 01-17-18, 08:00 AM
Bballer05 Bballer05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I also watched the last play from this game again ... can anyone tell me why the Saints guarded the 5 yard out and the 12 yard out with the underneath coverages and left the deep out guy alone ... why in the world would you cover the short route and let the deep guy go??????????
they didn't "let him go". they had a guy behind him who was RIGHT THERE when Diggs caught it, but instead of just standing up and making a normal tackle or even going high for the ball with the WR, he dove at his feet and whiffed.
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  #76  
Old 01-17-18, 09:52 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesports View Post
You are not also factoring in the Jets-Giants thing ... there is no way the Giants would want the Jets to jump in front of them and get the QB they would want ... teams will give up players (maybe not Bollas/Engram) if it is the difference between getting the first pick or not ... with all this said ... I really don't think the Browns are going to trade the first pick ... unless they like Allen/Mayfield better than Rosen/Darnold ... there are going to be GMs that really like Allen ... his stats don't jump out at you ... but his talent does ... he reminds me similar to Mahomes ... he had tons of talent but also flaws in his footwork ... some teams believe that is fixable ... who drafted Mahomes last year ... oh, that was Dorsey ... just saying it is something to think about.
I'm not arguing over who the Browns should take. I'm saying you're a fool if you think NYG or Denver are giving up the haul of picks you mentioned, PLUS their 1st Round picks from last year. You say "teams will give up players" to move up, sure they could but generally that's not true. They trade players for additional picks and to shed cap space. They trade picks (current and future) to move up in the draft.
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  #77  
Old 01-17-18, 10:25 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
I'm not arguing over who the Browns should take. I'm saying you're a fool if you think NYG or Denver are giving up the haul of picks you mentioned, PLUS their 1st Round picks from last year. You say "teams will give up players" to move up, sure they could but generally that's not true. They trade players for additional picks and to shed cap space. They trade picks (current and future) to move up in the draft.
OK ... I will explain this for the third maybe 4th time ... hopefully you will be able grasp the concept this time ... I used Bollas/Engram just as example because I do not know their rosters well enough to know who it could be ... you do not have to tell me that 4 more time they will not trade them ... I got your point the first 3 times you said it!!!!

Second, your right most teams do not trade players to move up ... why? ... some of the time it is the things you mentioned ... but it is also because teams don't usually ask for players ... they would rather have picks ... in this case, (IMO) the Browns have enough picks and may want semi established players instead ... to me it is just as foolish to think they would NEVER trade a player for a pick ... it may not be their first round picks from last year like I think I have explained once or twice before, but do you really think the Giants wouldn't trade Eli Apple(not sure the Browns want to take that gamble) or some other player that might not "fit" the new coaches plan?
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  #78  
Old 01-17-18, 10:57 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by Bballer05 View Post
they didn't "let him go". they had a guy behind him who was RIGHT THERE when Diggs caught it, but instead of just standing up and making a normal tackle or even going high for the ball with the WR, he dove at his feet and whiffed.
Why guard the 5 yard out? Isn't that what you want them the throw? Letting the deep out guy go and counting on a deep half defender (who is at least 10 to 15 yards away from him) to break up and make a tackle is just stupid ...encouraging them to throw to the 5 yard route means you have at least 3 guys to make a tackle for him to get the yardage needed ... what is the worst case scenario for each ... they throw the 5 yard out, 3 players (or more) miss tackles and he goes all the way ... or you leave it up to one player to make the tackle ... and if he misses he goes all the way??? What else could happen if they throw the 5 yard out ... they get the ball near the 50 with maybe 1 or 2 seconds left ... to me the Saints got what they deserved ... played it stupid.



I don't know ... you have a guy right next to the 5 yard route ... a guy right next to the middle route ... a guy 10 to 15 yards off the deepest route ... if you were the QB who do you throw to? ... if the had one of the guys near the deep route and the safety over top ... the other guy near the middle guy ... and left the 5 yard route open ... what would have happened? The 5 yard route guy catches the ball and goes out of bound near the 45/50 with just a few seconds left ... seams like a smarter idea ... you encouraged them to throw it to the deepest route ... still makes no sense to me.
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  #79  
Old 01-17-18, 11:10 AM
Bballer05 Bballer05 is offline
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they had another defender right there as well. problem was - the Saints guy who dove and missed took him out as well.

FYI - also read that Diggs ran the wrong route on the play. guess it all worked out in the end.
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  #80  
Old 01-19-18, 11:55 AM
nflstats nflstats is offline
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Gregory Games has the Vikings beating the Eagles, 20-10. The Vikings pass rush was too much for the Eagles sacking the QB, 6-Times led by Defensive End, Griffen, with 3-Sacks. Check out this replay at: www.thegregorygamecompany.com/replays
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  #81  
Old 01-21-18, 06:37 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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I think this a tough game to call.
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  #82  
Old 01-21-18, 06:45 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
I think this a tough game to call.
It's been over a week. You'll figure it out....


http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309826
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  #83  
Old 01-21-18, 06:50 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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Lol. Good thing I didn't bet
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