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  #121  
Old 02-03-18, 09:04 PM
gcfqn gcfqn is offline
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For those threatening to leave (minus CW) it comes down to Central Crossing (6), Pickerington Central (15) or a new league with the non-members to the south/east and CW.

They may be ok with the OCC proposal but don't know if the other divisions will necessarily like their new alignment. Seems like more driving for most schools.
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  #122  
Old 02-04-18, 08:52 PM
Iroquois Iroquois is offline
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Hold on! Those two would be looking up at Newark in boys and girls basketball. Maybe even Zanesville.
CW and Zanesville would be the best in baseball.
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  #123  
Old 02-04-18, 11:49 PM
supt3275 supt3275 is offline
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CW and Zanesville would be the best in baseball.
CW I'll buy being one of the top teams but Zanesville baseball is not that good and not real sure how much longer basketball would be around the top of that league either.
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  #124  
Old 02-05-18, 10:50 PM
TigerA TigerA is offline
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Our girls played Logan last Wednesday and Lancaster on Friday. Talked w/people w/both schools to get the scuttlebutt and got the feeling from them that it's probably going to happen if Lancaster/Reynoldsburg don't get the alignment they want from the upcoming meeting this week. I was also skeptical about Reynoldsburg leaving when I heard about that, but the Lancaster folks I talked to seemed to be pretty positive about it happening in this scenario.

I also wouldn't be surprised in the next few years to maybe see the Delaware county schools cut out of the OCC as well. They could make a nice 6 team "Delaware County League" w/the 4 Olentangy schools, Delaware and Big Walnut. It does get tiring getting shuffled around every 2 or 4 years. At this point, it would almost behoove them to move to a geographic alignment for travel/rivalries sake.
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  #125  
Old 02-06-18, 10:51 AM
TheDuq TheDuq is offline
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1. I think we are indeed seeing the inevitable end to the OCC, it got too big and has so much reshuffling that winning a "division" or whatever they are supposed to be called is becoming very meaningless.

2. With all of this shuffling, it's time for the state to step in and get rid of all of these arbitrary conferences, it is very archaic and not good for most sports. You want your rivalries? You will still have them, they will likely be in your conference if they are geographically close to you.

3. Big Walnut and Delaware, even Buckeye Valley will all be Division 1 schools in about 10 years, but until then, they aren't going to join with the Olentangy schools just to lose. At this point, Big Walnut has no reason to be mixed with schools of those enrollment sizes until 5-7 years from now when they have those numbers. Berlin is definitely watering down, and will water down talent for the next 5 years in Olentangy Schools, especially Olentangy, and that is why they are put together in a division at that proposed alignment. Liberty and Orange will be the best in all sports, however, by 2022 or so, Olentangy will be right back to where they are with Evan's Farm opening, Berlin will look like Liberty, and it's quite possible Orange, depending on zoning could look like a Westerville South, Kilbourne, or Dublin Scioto. It will be a choice Olentangy will have to make.
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  #126  
Old 02-06-18, 11:32 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by TheDuq View Post
2. With all of this shuffling, it's time for the state to step in and get rid of all of these arbitrary conferences, it is very archaic and not good for most sports. You want your rivalries? You will still have them, they will likely be in your conference if they are geographically close to you.
I want "the state" to do a very few things. No where on that list of things that I want them to do is them getting involved in the voluntary association of independent school districts for athletic purposes.
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  #127  
Old 02-06-18, 02:10 PM
Malabar10 Malabar10 is offline
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I heard that Delaware will be adding a second high school in the near future. Then you could go BW, 2 DCS, 4 OSD, and Marysville.
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  #128  
Old 02-06-18, 02:18 PM
dograt dograt is offline
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I want "the state" to do a very few things. No where on that list of things that I want them to do is them getting involved in the voluntary association of independent school districts for athletic purposes.
I'm assuming (maybe wrongly?) that he means a more Texas model? No real leagues, but 8 team districts. You play the other 7 in weeks 3-9 and top 2 make playoffs. schedule anybody you want in 1,2,10 because it doesn't matter for the playoffs.
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  #129  
Old 02-06-18, 05:01 PM
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I could go for that... Div 1 could have 4 regions comprised of 2 districts of 9 teams. Each team would play 8 “District” games and 2 non-District. The top 4 teams based upon district standings would make playoffs with 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 cross over games against the other district in their region. Problem solved for D1 at least. Divs 2-7 would be another story.
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  #130  
Old 02-06-18, 06:00 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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he crux of slotting schools in the divisions is tricky because it takes a balancing act that is often a bit too difficult at times.

Balance geographically , balance of strength and getting the right balance of top end strength that isn't overall tilted in one conference and not the others.

Most programs try to achieve a balanced schedule of real tests and some games that are very winnable. reshuffling is also tricky because of changing school sizes and the different sports that are involved.

Rivalry's are part of what makes sports great. So you try to keep those alive because they usually serve another purpose of increased attendance for those contests. The intra school district game early on are proven to 'Usually " be more well attended than games against teams from other geographic regions.

So you have to keep that in mind as well . We have all seen attendance dip steadily the last 10 years or so , I mean you get to the stadium at about 645 and there is a shockingly thin crowd at times , something that you never saw before .

The crowds get better as the clock gets closer to 730 but I believe that 700 start time did hurt attendance a bit last year.

The constant reshuffling and the the earlier start times haven't been good ideas IMO. The running clock at 30 points is a joke and takes away from the overall experience as so many kids get shortchanged on Friday nights from getting well deserved and beneficial playing time , it's a joke . If you need that at least push it back to 40 points . Can anyone really make the argument that the running clock when it starts right after halftime is a good idea and serves a great purpose ?

Trust me the kids getting their azzes beat don't feel any better when they see the clock running. Most coaches are compassionate and won't overdue the starters playing too long. And the thing is if you have a couple of these suckers in a row your starters lose their edge conditioning wise .

Programs have some control over this by scheduling tougher if you can and it fits with other strong programs and we have bene over this many times . Not sure I like the district thing as much as some , only league games counting for qualification for play-off berths I think is a bit much because it renders the first month of the season in some of these Texas regions virtually meaningless unless you are interested in AP rankings and or NATIONAL RANKINGS where some these mammoth D-1 high schools like Allen and their 'Kind" { 4000- 5500 student goliath's that often get multiple key transfers as well even with those numbers} often are.

Now as Walt said if you had 9 team regions that would give you less flexibility to paly other schools , but then again those games aren't determining your post season fate which I don't like either.

I like the system here overall, but I do think the balance of the OCC conferences is difficult to achieve.

Yes no need for Ohassa to step in and execute the OCC , of course the OCC would have years of appeals and stays of execution if that happened lol , Not the conservative some of you guys out here are by any means but agree that there are times you just let the states { leagues} do their thing and figure it out .
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  #131  
Old 02-07-18, 08:32 AM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
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Vote postponed due to weather.

https://twitter.com/ThisWeekSports/s...16845901713408



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  #132  
Old 02-07-18, 09:10 AM
TheDuq TheDuq is offline
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Yes, in states such as Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas to my knowledge operate on 2,3, and 4 year alignments created by the state, like Ohio, states with growth. The biggest issues with those states are people lying about their enrollment just to stay a hair below the line so they could be one classification lower to help them be in a "easier" classification.

Also, OHSAA needs to finally separate private and public.
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  #133  
Old 02-07-18, 05:09 PM
PGEMF PGEMF is offline
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Originally Posted by TheDuq View Post
Yes, in states such as Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas to my knowledge operate on 2,3, and 4 year alignments created by the state, like Ohio, states with growth. The biggest issues with those states are people lying about their enrollment just to stay a hair below the line so they could be one classification lower to help them be in a "easier" classification.

Also, OHSAA needs to finally separate private and public.
So when the enrollment line is fluid, teams lie about their enrollment to stay below a line without knowing what that line will be?
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  #134  
Old 02-07-18, 09:58 PM
TheDuq TheDuq is offline
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In a way. One can usually tell which schools are close to making and breaking "the line", and the schools that are close to the border will no question tell kids to not show up on the day they take this attendance called "snapshot day". Realignment Day in Texas is a practical holiday every other year. Most football coaches get the day off to meet up and sort out the schedule for the next two years as of course, 99% of them do not teach any classes, they are the campus athletic director as unqualified for the position they may be.

Regardless, this creates a system where winning your "district" is a pretty big deal, however nothing compares to going to regional or state. Most kids in the OCC don't have any clue who is in their division and seem to care much more about beating rivals and advancing in the tournament (where in every sport but football, everyone qualifies for...also needs to be changed)
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  #135  
Old 02-08-18, 09:20 AM
PGEMF PGEMF is offline
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In a way. One can usually tell which schools are close to making and breaking "the line", and the schools that are close to the border will no question tell kids to not show up on the day they take this attendance called "snapshot day". Realignment Day in Texas is a practical holiday every other year. Most football coaches get the day off to meet up and sort out the schedule for the next two years as of course, 99% of them do not teach any classes, they are the campus athletic director as unqualified for the position they may be.

Regardless, this creates a system where winning your "district" is a pretty big deal, however nothing compares to going to regional or state. Most kids in the OCC don't have any clue who is in their division and seem to care much more about beating rivals and advancing in the tournament (where in every sport but football, everyone qualifies for...also needs to be changed)
Do these coaches arrive to realignment day in black helicopters wearing tinfoil hats?
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  #136  
Old 02-08-18, 11:20 AM
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I want "the state" to do a very few things. No where on that list of things that I want them to do is them getting involved in the voluntary association of independent school districts for athletic purposes.
Amen to that. I've lived in states where the legislature has stuck its nose into high school sports, and it has never, ever gone well. Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.
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  #137  
Old 02-08-18, 12:54 PM
Paladin1aa Paladin1aa is offline
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I often wondered how coaches got their team up to compete in the OCC. Many teams never existed before until a few years ago, so no rivalry established. Then realignment breaks up the established division. With teams coming and going, new schools starting up, and little history for the kids to be challenged by or fan interest, I suspect attendance may be crimped and little interest from student body. Other than being geographically close, the arrangement makes little sense.
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  #138  
Old 02-08-18, 03:47 PM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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Amen to that. I've lived in states where the legislature has stuck its nose into high school sports, and it has never, ever gone well. Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.
Agree with you guys. No state-imposed decisions. Let this sort itself out.
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  #139  
Old 02-08-18, 03:53 PM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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I often wondered how coaches got their team up to compete in the OCC. Many teams never existed before until a few years ago, so no rivalry established. Then realignment breaks up the established division. With teams coming and going, new schools starting up, and little history for the kids to be challenged by or fan interest, I suspect attendance may be crimped and little interest from student body. Other than being geographically close, the arrangement makes little sense.
Rivalries have sprung up, but realignment does take its toll. The intra-district (Pick North-Pick Central, Darby-Bradley, Liberty-Olentangy, etc.) and established (Lancaster-Newark, Coffman-Davidson) rivalries spark student interest. Scioto-Kilbourne is an example of a rivalry that has flourished, despite being fairly recent (20 or so years), inter-district (Dublin-Worthington) and sometimes even cross-divisional. Of course, being down the street from each other has been a huge plus.

Unfortunately, the OCC doesn't always have a track record of trying to protect the rivalries and in the past, has actually discouraged them by not putting teams from the same district in the same division.
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  #140  
Old 02-08-18, 04:19 PM
sportfan97 sportfan97 is offline
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Rivalries have sprung up, but realignment does take its toll. The intra-district (Pick North-Pick Central, Darby-Bradley, Liberty-Olentangy, etc.) and established (Lancaster-Newark, Coffman-Davidson) rivalries spark student interest. Scioto-Kilbourne is an example of a rivalry that has flourished, despite being fairly recent (20 or so years), inter-district (Dublin-Worthington) and sometimes even cross-divisional. Of course, being down the street from each other has been a huge plus.

Unfortunately, the OCC doesn't always have a track record of trying to protect the rivalries and in the past, has actually discouraged them by not putting teams from the same district in the same division.


The sad thing is Lancaster-Newark which is a rivalry that has been played for I believe 116 years was completely ignored and has to be scheduled as a non-conference game in recent years.


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  #141  
Old 02-08-18, 04:23 PM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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The sad thing is Lancaster-Newark which is a rivalry that has been played for I believe 116 years was completely ignored and has to be scheduled as a non-conference game in recent years.


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Agreed. That said, wasn't Newark pushing for a move to the Capital? So, was that as much about Newark, as it was the OCC? If Newark wasn't pushing for a move to the Capital, then the OCC bears the responsibility of splitting up one of the best rivalries in Central Ohio. You would know this best... I don't recall Lancaster wanting a move to the Capital, but maybe you can confirm that.
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  #142  
Old 02-08-18, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin1aa View Post
I often wondered how coaches got their team up to compete in the OCC. Many teams never existed before until a few years ago, so no rivalry established. Then realignment breaks up the established division. With teams coming and going, new schools starting up, and little history for the kids to be challenged by or fan interest, I suspect attendance may be crimped and little interest from student body. Other than being geographically close, the arrangement makes little sense.
I don't think this is such a huge problem for the kids. I think it's more of an issue for the adults.

Ironically, I wonder if the kids really care about leagues any more. With more OCC teams winning state championships these days, I wonder if they even care about league titles any more.

The adults certainly care, but I'm not so convinced the kids do. I think more kids have a state-title-or-bust mentality now, because it's more within their grasp than it was in the 1980's and 1990's.

Back in those days, a "great season" was winning a league title, and making the playoffs. Now, I think a "great season" has shifted more towards making at least the regional finals. (Notice I didn't say anything about league results in that second statement.)
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  #143  
Old 02-08-18, 04:35 PM
sportfan97 sportfan97 is offline
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Shake up to the OCC

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Agreed. That said, wasn't Newark pushing for a move to the Capital? So, was that as much about Newark, as it was the OCC? If Newark wasn't pushing for a move to the Capital, then the OCC bears the responsibility of splitting up one of the best rivalries in Central Ohio. You would know this best... I don't recall Lancaster wanting a move to the Capital, but maybe you can confirm that.


Lancaster never wanted to move as they have been part of the Ohio Division since they joined the OCC in 1998. Not sure about Newark wanting out, but as far as football goes it would make sense because of their struggles against the current schools in the Ohio. I will say the constant realignments are getting old. In some cases a rivalry that existed when a kid played for a school may not even exist when their younger brother or sister gets to high school 3 years later.

For me, my family has competed against Newark for generations. My great grandfather in the 1910s, my grandfather and his cousins in the 1930ís, my parents in the 1960ís and 70ís. Cosusins in the 1980ís. Me in the 1990ís, my younger brother in the 2000ís. Cousins in the 2010ís...my kids will hopefully compete against them in the next 8-12 years as well.


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  #144  
Old 02-08-18, 04:42 PM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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Lancaster never wanted to move as they have been part of the Ohio Division since they joined the OCC in 1998. Not sure about Newark wanting out, but as far as football goes it would make sense because of their struggles against the current schools in the Ohio. I will say the constant realignments are getting old. In some cases a rivalry that existed when a kid played for a school may not even exist when their younger brother or sister gets to high school 3 years later.

For me, my family has competed against Newark for generations. My great grandfather in the 1910s, my grandfather and his cousins in the 1930’s, my parents in the 1960’s and 70’s. Me in the 1990’s, my younger brother in the 2000’s. Cousins in the 2010’s...my kids will hopefully compete against them in the next 8-12 years as well.


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Agreed... and I get it. I'll criticize the OCC plenty, but I'm not so sure that Newark didn't have some say in getting moved to the Capital. Personally, I liked Newark in the *Ohio* and their basketball programs are on a par with anyone else's. IMHO, if any school shouldn't gotten a break in realignment, it should have been Westland.
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  #145  
Old 02-08-18, 06:29 PM
gcfqn gcfqn is offline
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For most of the kids I know, all the schools run together as they grow up playing travel and AAU. Many would be hard pressed to identify all the teams in their own division. While adults have longer memories.
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  #146  
Old 02-08-18, 08:41 PM
sportfan97 sportfan97 is offline
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For most of the kids I know, all the schools run together as they grow up playing travel and AAU. Many would be hard pressed to identify all the teams in their own division. While adults have longer memories.


This is different in the older single public school communities like Lancaster and Newark. I bet you ask any kid at Lancaster who is in their division of the OCC and they can tell you.

The schools/fans of these communities are more like your small rural schools in that you have multi generational graduates of the same schools. Lancasterís coach Rob Carpenter played for and graduated from Lancaster where his parents also went....after his 10 year NFL career moved back to Lancaster where his kids all went and now one of his kids is teaching and coaching football at Lancaster along side him. Where a lot of schools in the OCC didnít even exist 20 years ago so that history just isnít there.


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  #147  
Old 02-08-18, 10:08 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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This is different in the older single public school communities like Lancaster and Newark. I bet you ask any kid at Lancaster who is in their division of the OCC and they can tell you.

The schools/fans of these communities are more like your small rural schools in that you have multi generational graduates of the same schools. Lancasterís coach Rob Carpenter played for and graduated from Lancaster where his parents also went....after his 10 year NFL career moved back to Lancaster where his kids all went and now one of his kids is teaching and coaching football at Lancaster along side him. Where a lot of schools in the OCC didnít even exist 20 years ago so that history just isnít there.


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The other thing is, in some cases there are rivalries with more history across district lines than rivalries within the district. An example of this would be "The Battle for Hard Road."
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  #148  
Old 02-08-18, 10:36 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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I don't have the same perspective on Lancaster athletics that an alum such as sportfan97 would, however I figure I'd post nevertheless.

A friend and I discussed the realignment possibilities and what would be the realignment that would convince Lancaster to stay in the OCC(-Ohio). We speculated that such a realignment, one that Lancaster would agree to, would involve moving two of the following four schools away from Lancaster: Gahanna, the Pickerington schools, and Reynoldsburg. Taking away the two Pickerington schools, or leaving both in, we thought as being of no incentive to the Gales.

Well, Gahanna and Pick North are apparently the ones that would get shuffled away. I can't speak to the personal Lancaster perspective, but I always imagined that Lancaster folks were getting weary of the gauntlet of GL + two Pickerington schools. Or at least such was inferred in the Lancaster Eagle-Gazette piece on possible Lancaster defection, arguing that students attending those three schools are afforded more opportunities to be competitive on the basis of socioeconomics. Now, instead of being a middling program in comparison to playing amongst GL, PC and PN, the Gales have a better opportunity to play for league titles/finish in second place.

So... with no Pick North and no Gahanna, and instead Newark and Groveport (in addition to swapping Grove City out for Central Crossing), the proposed OCC-Ohio is more balanced and advantageous for the Gales to compete in. Do they stay, or do they go?
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  #149  
Old 02-09-18, 09:27 AM
sportfan97 sportfan97 is offline
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I don't have the same perspective on Lancaster athletics that an alum such as sportfan97 would, however I figure I'd post nevertheless.

A friend and I discussed the realignment possibilities and what would be the realignment that would convince Lancaster to stay in the OCC(-Ohio). We speculated that such a realignment, one that Lancaster would agree to, would involve moving two of the following four schools away from Lancaster: Gahanna, the Pickerington schools, and Reynoldsburg. Taking away the two Pickerington schools, or leaving both in, we thought as being of no incentive to the Gales.

Well, Gahanna and Pick North are apparently the ones that would get shuffled away. I can't speak to the personal Lancaster perspective, but I always imagined that Lancaster folks were getting weary of the gauntlet of GL + two Pickerington schools. Or at least such was inferred in the Lancaster Eagle-Gazette piece on possible Lancaster defection, arguing that students attending those three schools are afforded more opportunities to be competitive on the basis of socioeconomics. Now, instead of being a middling program in comparison to playing amongst GL, PC and PN, the Gales have a better opportunity to play for league titles/finish in second place.

So... with no Pick North and no Gahanna, and instead Newark and Groveport (in addition to swapping Grove City out for Central Crossing), the proposed OCC-Ohio is more balanced and advantageous for the Gales to compete in. Do they stay, or do they go?


On a positive note...last night Lancaster clinched their 4th straight OCC-Ohio Championship in wrestling.


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  #150  
Old 02-11-18, 01:52 PM
Hartley1 Hartley1 is offline
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It seems like the new OCC alignments will work. And it allows teams to keep rivalries with only having 6 team leagues. It is impossible to have a league everyone likes. Everyone wants to win. No one wants to play the best/most successful programs. They should be able to lock this league in for a long time since there will not be any new schools to add in the near future.
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