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  #1  
Old 07-28-17, 05:43 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Why so many good officials avoid AAU...

...see the Lavar Ball incident today. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...uls-lavar-ball

-Idiot "coach" acts up and is penalized appropriately.

-Idiot "coach" demands replacement of the official who had the gumption to stick up to him for his terrible behavior.

-Organizers, whose priority is lining their pockets as much as possible, give into the coach's demands and order the officials assigner (in this case, Court Club Elite) to grant the request.

-Assigner, rather than sticking up for the officials and telling the organizers to go kick rocks, grants the request in fear of not being asked to supply officials the following year (and thus losing out on the $$$ that the organizers are paying to have officials supplied)

-Other two partners, rather than walking off the court in defense of their partner, continue officiating the game since they paid a lot of money to be at the camp and the clinicians on their court tell them to keep officiating. Can't fault them in this case, although if this was not a camp setting there is a 0% chance I would continue officiating the game.
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  #2  
Old 07-28-17, 06:19 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Agreed with everything you said. What is scary is that there are kids starting to look up to Lavar Ball and think that he is a good coach and good human being. (they are wrong on both).
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  #3  
Old 07-28-17, 06:30 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Agreed with everything you said. What is scary is that there are kids starting to look up to Lavar Ball and think that he is a good coach and good human being. (they are wrong on both).
Say what you want about his character on tv and outlandishness, but to say he's a bad human being is outright wrong. He trains all the neighborhood kids for free and usually makes the 20+ kids breakfast afterwards. He's taken care of his wife for the last 5 months after she suffered a stroke. He's raised 3 successful young men.

From a fox sports article:

"It started at 8 a.m. with literally some hill runs, and LaVar had about 20 neighborhood kids there. And what was incredible to Magic and I was he knew every kid’s name, he knew every kid’s characteristics - how to coach them, how to drive them - and he really treated Lonzo and his two brothers the same as every other 21 of those kids.

We went from the hill runs into the family garage where they’re transformed it into a weight room, everybody’s working out. Then there’s a breakfast where LaVar is cooking and doing the dishes. So you just… you get a sense that there’s a genuine commitment to family and hard work. The way they care for their mom, Tina, who’s had some medical things come up. It was just a day where you left and you’re like ‘wow, this is a really impressive family.’ I think Lonzo Ball’s got those characteristics instilled in him."
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  #4  
Old 07-28-17, 06:31 PM
hvs1717 hvs1717 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
...see the Lavar Ball incident today. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...uls-lavar-ball

-Idiot "coach" acts up and is penalized appropriately.

-Idiot "coach" demands replacement of the official who had the gumption to stick up to him for his terrible behavior.

-Organizers, whose priority is lining their pockets as much as possible, give into the coach's demands and order the officials assigner (in this case, Court Club Elite) to grant the request.

-Assigner, rather than sticking up for the officials and telling the organizers to go kick rocks, grants the request in fear of not being asked to supply officials the following year (and thus losing out on the $$$ that the organizers are paying to have officials supplied)

-Other two partners, rather than walking off the court in defense of their partner, continue officiating the game since they paid a lot of money to be at the camp and the clinicians on their court tell them to keep officiating. Can't fault them in this case, although if this was not a camp setting there is a 0% chance I would continue officiating the game.

I agree with most of what you said but Adidas was responsible for pulling the ref. Adidas had given a mandate that refs were not to T up Lavar because the drawing power. The assigners and site organizers were probably in over their heads with Adidas putting pressure on them.
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  #5  
Old 07-28-17, 06:42 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by kingpin2010 View Post
Say what you want about his character on tv and outlandishness, but to say he's a bad human being is outright wrong. He trains all the neighborhood kids for free and usually makes the 20+ kids breakfast afterwards. He's taken care of his wife for the last 5 months after she suffered a stroke. He's raised 3 successful young men.
Good for him. If he truly cares about the kids, he should set a better example for them about how to act when things aren't going your way, perceived or actual. Rather than just walking off and forfeiting or throwing a tantrum until you get what you want.

There's a reason people don't consider these "coaches" real coaches. You would never see an OHSAA coach or any scholastic coach pull antics like this clown does.

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Originally Posted by hvs1717 View Post
I agree with most of what you said but Adidas was responsible for pulling the ref. Adidas had given a mandate that refs were not to T up Lavar because the drawing power. The assigners and site organizers were probably in over their heads with Adidas putting pressure on them.
I didn't intend to blame Court Club Elite for caving into Adidas's demands (although part of me wishes Ed Rush and his partners did pull the crews off the court in protest); I meant to illustrate the common narrative at so many of these "showcase" events that coincidentally was played out almost perfectly in today's incident.

Money is what matters. Organizers don't care about officials, whether they're rookies or have worked the Final Four. Just keep the coaches happy, is all they care about.
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Old 07-28-17, 07:05 PM
hvs1717 hvs1717 is offline
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Apparently, during Thursday's game, Lavar told a ref, "You are the worst f---ing ref who ever lived.' And because of Adidas, he was not T'd up.

They are scheduled to play another game tonight and as of now have not been suspended or anything even though when he received his second T he pulled his team again and refused to leave the floor, forcing the organizers to call the game at that point.
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  #7  
Old 07-28-17, 07:12 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
Good for him. If he truly cares about the kids, he should set a better example for them about how to act when things aren't going your way, perceived or actual. Rather than just walking off and forfeiting or throwing a tantrum until you get what you want.

There's a reason people don't consider these "coaches" real coaches. You would never see an OHSAA coach or any scholastic coach pull antics like this clown does.


I didn't intend to blame Court Club Elite for caving into Adidas's demands (although part of me wishes Ed Rush and his partners did pull the crews off the court in protest); I meant to illustrate the common narrative at so many of these "showcase" events that coincidentally was played out almost perfectly in today's incident.

Money is what matters. Organizers don't care about officials, whether they're rookies or have worked the Final Four. Just keep the coaches happy, is all they care about.
"If he truly cares about his kids" as if he doesn't. Casting stones at a guy you don't even know and how he should teach his kids. I think it's a bit ridiculous that the example he should set is, if you're getting boned to just take it instead of doing what you can to get the situation rectified. I didn't see the game, so I can't comment about how bad the reffing was and whether a reaction was warranted.
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Old 07-28-17, 07:12 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by hvs1717 View Post
Apparently, during Thursday's game, Lavar told a ref, "You are the worst f---ing ref who ever lived.' And because of Adidas, he was not T'd up.

They are scheduled to play another game tonight and as of now have not been suspended or anything even though when he received his second T he pulled his team again and refused to leave the floor, forcing the organizers to call the game at that point.
This happens all the time at events less prestigious than this one. I'm not surprised one bit and I don't think most officials are, either.

I've worked plenty of events where we're essentially told to let coaches get away with anything short of murder. If we don't comply, we aren't asked to come back. So now I mostly just stay away because I'm not selling my soul to the devil for the pennies most of these tournaments want to pay the officials.

Ball's team is not going to get suspended.

The replaced official's replacement was the one who issued the second T. Now THAT's a good partner.
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  #9  
Old 07-28-17, 07:20 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by kingpin2010 View Post
"If he truly cares about his kids" as if he doesn't. Casting stones at a guy you don't even know and how he should teach his kids. I think it's a bit ridiculous that the example he should set is, if you're getting boned to just take it instead of doing what you can to get the situation rectified. I didn't see the game, so I can't comment about how bad the reffing was and whether a reaction was warranted.
Do you know him? Defending a guy you've never met as some God-sent basketball role model is equally as ridiculous as your chastising me for criticizing his lack of respect for the game and authorities. You're out here defending this guy who's made a fool of himself countless times on national television and clearly has shown he doesn't have any respect for authorities (i.e. referees) who put him in his place when he chooses to act like a child. And you want me to believe that he's a role model? Spare me that nonsense.

Who cares how bad the reffing was or wasn't? How many times have you seen a coach behave as ridiculously as this guy has in well or poorly officiated games?This woman is a Division 1 official who paid a bunch of money coming to this event so she could work on her game and get feedback from people at the top of her profession. She's clearly more qualified to perform her craft than Ball is to act like a "coach" to these kids.
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  #10  
Old 07-28-17, 07:31 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
Do you know him? Defending a guy you've never met as some God-sent basketball role model is equally as ridiculous as your chastising me for criticizing his lack of respect for the game and authorities. You're out here defending this guy who's made a fool of himself countless times on national television and clearly has shown he doesn't have any respect for authorities (i.e. referees) who put him in his place when he chooses to act like a child. And you want me to believe that he's a role model? Spare me that nonsense.

Who cares how bad the reffing was or wasn't? How many times have you seen a coach behave as ridiculously as this guy has in well or poorly officiated games?This woman is a Division 1 official who paid a bunch of money coming to this event so she could work on her game and get feedback from people at the top of her profession. She's clearly more qualified to perform her craft than Ball is to act like a "coach" to these kids.
I'm defending him because if you look past the outlandish character, he's a good dude. I posted one of many articles that cover that he's a good human being. Is it "making a fool" when that's exactly what you want to happen? Everyone knows who Lavar is, everyone knows the Ball family and that's exactly his plan. He's become a household name for being outlandish. Don't believe everything you see on tv, when there's plenty of evidence off camera that's not what he is.

If the reffing was truly that bad, then I dont blame him. He even clarified after the game the he believed she was calling the game biasedly against his team because of who he was. I find that funny about him being unqualified as a coach considering he has 3 sons that have/will get full rides at a major D1 program, while some of the other neighborhood kids in the past have credited him for helping them get college scholarships for basketball.
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  #11  
Old 07-28-17, 07:39 PM
hvs1717 hvs1717 is offline
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Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
This happens all the time at events less prestigious than this one. I'm not surprised one bit and I don't think most officials are, either.

I've worked plenty of events where we're essentially told to let coaches get away with anything short of murder. If we don't comply, we aren't asked to come back. So now I mostly just stay away because I'm not selling my soul to the devil for the pennies most of these tournaments want to pay the officials.

Ball's team is not going to get suspended.

The replaced official's replacement was the one who issued the second T. Now THAT's a good partner.
I am not surprised but I am disappointed to hear that it goes on at lesser events also.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-17, 07:46 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by kingpin2010 View Post
I think it's a bit ridiculous that the example he should set is, if you're getting boned to just take it instead of doing what you can to get the situation rectified. I didn't see the game, so I can't comment about how bad the reffing was and whether a reaction was warranted.
I'm not going to fall for what he and his publicist put out there for his character when no one can see and prove it. I'm only going by what I see. I see a racist, arrogant, showboat, spoiled brat leading a circus that is making the media money so they keep pumping out stories about him.

Nothing wrong with getting a technical. Everything else that he is doing is what makes him a terrible human being. Great, he's famous because he has no self-control. We've had plenty of those people over the years. Let him go get a reality TV show like the rest of them and make big bucks watching his train wreck.
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Old 07-28-17, 07:54 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by kingpin2010 View Post
I'm defending him because if you look past the outlandish character, he's a good dude. I posted one of many articles that cover that he's a good human being. Is it "making a fool" when that's exactly what you want to happen? Everyone knows who Lavar is, everyone knows the Ball family and that's exactly his plan. He's become a household name for being outlandish. Don't believe everything you see on tv, when there's plenty of evidence off camera that's not what he is.

If the reffing was truly that bad, then I dont blame him. He even clarified after the game the he believed she was calling the game biasedly against his team because of who he was. I find that funny about him being unqualified as a coach considering he has 3 sons that have/will get full rides at a major D1 program, while some of the other neighborhood kids in the past have credited him for helping them get college scholarships for basketball.
How can I look past the outlandish character when he's on the news for acting the fool almost EVERY DAY? These aren't isolated incidents. It's a pattern of behavior demonstrating that he thinks he's above the game, he doesn't have to respect the game or the officials. "He's a good dude"? Why can you say that without knowing him, but when I call out his character after repeated incidents, you call me ignorant and tell me "you don't know him"? If you've met the dude personally just say so, but don't criticize me for "not knowing him" when you and I both are evaluating him based on what we see in the media.

This is where you lose all credibility with me. Coaching is an inherently biased occupation, so please explain to me how coaches (AAU-type coaches nonetheless) are qualified to be objective evaluators of how fair a game is being officiated. You can spin it however you want, but his behavior is not helping his kids at all; it's robbing them of the opportunity to play the game they have PAID to play and teaching them to cry foul whenever things aren't going your way instead of holding yourself accountable. Condoning pulling your team off the court for thinking refs are biased is laughable–how many times have officials been accused of calling an unfair game, yet the offended coach still finishes the game?

I don't need to look any further than his behavior on the court to evaluate his qualifications to be a coach. And that's not really a shot at him–most "coaches" at these types of events don't coach high school or college basketball.
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Old 07-28-17, 08:05 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
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Originally Posted by SLAGuy View Post
I'm not going to fall for what he and his publicist put out there for his character when no one can see and prove it. I'm only going by what I see. I see a racist, arrogant, showboat, spoiled brat leading a circus that is making the media money so they keep pumping out stories about him.

Nothing wrong with getting a technical. Everything else that he is doing is what makes him a terrible human being. Great, he's famous because he has no self-control. We've had plenty of those people over the years. Let him go get a reality TV show like the rest of them and make big bucks watching his train wreck.
Except none of that comes from Lavar or anyone around him. Rob Pelinka, lakers GM, is one who has praised the character when the cameras are off, and even said Lavar doesn't really care for attention being brought to that. What you see on tv is literally a character that he uses to get exposure for his sons, brand, and himself. But yeah he's a "horrible human being" for raising 3 successful kids that have never been in trouble, taking care of his ill-stricken wife, training and caring for neighborhood kids helping get them into college etc. but god dang it he's annoying and outlandish on tv so he's a horrible human being.
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Old 07-28-17, 08:14 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
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Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
How can I look past the outlandish character when he's on the news for acting the fool almost EVERY DAY? These aren't isolated incidents. It's a pattern of behavior demonstrating that he thinks he's above the game, he doesn't have to respect the game or the officials. "He's a good dude"? Why can you say that without knowing him, but when I call out his character after repeated incidents, you call me ignorant and tell me "you don't know him"? If you've met the dude personally just say so, but don't criticize me for "not knowing him" when you and I both are evaluating him based on what we see in the media.

This is where you lose all credibility with me. Coaching is an inherently biased occupation, so please explain to me how coaches (AAU-type coaches nonetheless) are qualified to be objective evaluators of how fair a game is being officiated. You can spin it however you want, but his behavior is not helping his kids at all; it's robbing them of the opportunity to play the game they have PAID to play and teaching them to cry foul whenever things aren't going your way instead of holding yourself accountable. Condoning pulling your team off the court for thinking refs are biased is laughable–how many times have officials been accused of calling an unfair game, yet the offended coach still finishes the game?

I don't need to look any further than his behavior on the court to evaluate his qualifications to be a coach. And that's not really a shot at him–most "coaches" at these types of events don't coach high school or college basketball.
Because it's literally a character to get attention on tv. He's no different than Stephan A Smith, skip bayless etc. There's an old saying, all press is good press. Because of Lavar, Lonzo is the most talked about rookie since probably lebron. Yeah I can say that about him, because of his most damning trait is "not respecting refs at an AAU game" then it's not all that bad. Yet away from the cameras nothing but good has been said about him. But that good doesn't get headlines, so no one cares.

Well his team didn't pay anything, I'll have to dig, but I've read in the past Lavar pays for all his AAU kids. Such a monster he is. If the official was calling a game decidedly against his squad because of who Lavar is, then I don't blame him for doing that. It's not fair to his team at all.

Again, he's coached 3 boys to UCLA and other neighborhood kids to colleges while he himself played college hoops, in pretty sure he knows about basketball.
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Old 07-28-17, 08:38 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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You realize that this story is about him bullying another person (the ref) because of the power that he holds. I was brought up to respect other people even in difficult situations. All evidence points that this man is not respectful. You call it a character. I see it as who he is.

I saw a video of all the bad calls against his team. The most comical was a player brought the ball across half court, missed a layup, and the big man rebounded it and made the put back. He was complaining that it was 3 seconds because the big man didn't leave the key during the shots. The officials are favoring him and those that are fair are the targets of his bullying.
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Old 07-28-17, 10:36 PM
ringer2 ringer2 is offline
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He's a bully (even bullies have some good traits) who treats women almost as badly as the president.
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Old 07-29-17, 07:54 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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He's a cult leader.

Seriously. Dude is whacked.
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Old 07-29-17, 10:02 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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The dude's now said "stay in your lane" to two women on two separate occasions. You don't want us to believe he's a sexist? Maybe he should start there.

I'm going to catch heat for saying this probably, but if this guy pulled these stunts in a real sanctioned game that I was calling, he wouldn't make it longer than five minutes before getting dumped. And I would hope other officials would feel the same.
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Old 07-29-17, 11:28 AM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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He has it easy playing AAU ball. If he coached in high school, he would be going against a hostile crowd nearly every game. He wouldn't know how to handle himself with hundreds or thousands of screaming fans that were actively rooting against him.

Lebron experienced this when he was in high school. In AAU, Lebron had everyone coming out to watch the upcoming superstar. In high school games, every student section did their best to take him out of his game. The difference between Lebron and Levar Ball is that Lebron rose to the challenge and didn't run away when things didn't go his way.
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Old 07-29-17, 01:42 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
I'm going to catch heat for saying this probably, but if this guy pulled these stunts in a real sanctioned game that I was calling, he wouldn't make it longer than five minutes before getting dumped. And I would hope other officials would feel the same.
That's the difference between an official that's been hired by a conference or association and an official that's been hired by a shoe company.
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Old 07-29-17, 01:52 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Rob Pelinka, lakers GM, is one who has praised the character when the cameras are off
So the GM of the team that's trying to sign his son praises his character, while the shoe company that's hoping to sign his son dismisses refs from his games at his request.

You can't tell me basketball doesn't teach some important life lessons.
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Old 07-29-17, 03:55 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Good call. Everyone is catering to this turd. He is an embarrassment to the game of basketball and these big organizations catering to him are just as bad.
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  #24  
Old 07-29-17, 04:32 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Good call. Everyone is catering to this turd. He is an embarrassment to the game of basketball and these big organizations catering to him are just as bad.
Ball is more than an embarrassment. He is a stain in the shorts of humanity.
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  #25  
Old 07-29-17, 04:42 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Ball drives it to the point of absurdity. But the problem's endemic.
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Old 07-29-17, 09:05 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Absolutely. Read some of the articles. The guy is a rockstar to some of these kids. One thing that I noticed is that some of the players looks on their faces when they had to forfeit again. They looked like they wanted to play but knew that they had to follow him to stay in his good graces.
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Old 07-31-17, 11:30 AM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Probably the greatest thing I've ever seen. Was a very fast T for nothing
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  #28  
Old 07-31-17, 11:43 AM
JU-ICE JU-ICE is offline
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Court Club Elite

Has cut ties with Adidas following the Ball incident:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...medium=twitter
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  #29  
Old 07-31-17, 12:29 PM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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What is sad, there are many Lavar Ball types out there. Maybe not as this hyped and nationwide scale, but going to any local youth sporting event and there are multiple ball types just causing chaos just like this bozo (at some level).

Adults are ruining youth sports.
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Old 07-31-17, 12:47 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Congrats to Court Club Elite for doing the right thing.

To Adidas, you guys suck. You should be embarrassed. If you wanted to do the right thing, you would ban Lavar Ball from at any Adidas events.
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