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  #1  
Old 07-20-17, 02:06 PM
madman madman is offline
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Compression and Split Shorts on Track Relay?

I am considering having both compression shorts and split shorts on athletes during cross country. The preseason manual for XC states:

1. Bottom may vary in length and style but must be the same color for all team members.

I read this to indicate I can have athletes wear both types of shorts in the same race.

I cannot find a similar statement for Track and Field. All I see http://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/Tr...d/TFmanual.pdf is:



No common color required? They only have to be issued by the school? I'm ok with that. I just want to be sure that I am not missing anything.

At a minimum it looks like they can wear both the split shorts and compression shorts on a relay team as long as they are issued by the school. Is this correct?
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  #2  
Old 07-20-17, 05:12 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Our track team does not have a standard for shorts. The kids supply their own. There was too much disagreement on what kind of shorts they wanted when they got new uniforms, so we made the standard color black, and let kids get what they want. We used the money we saved on better quality, flashier, and more legit uniform tops. And this last year we started using those same uniforms in cross country. At no point were we dq'd or even yelled at.

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  #3  
Old 07-20-17, 05:56 PM
madman madman is offline
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Good to know. Thank you for the response.
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  #4  
Old 07-20-17, 07:25 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Good idea Coventry....our boys are getting new uniforms this spring I think I'll go the same route.
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  #5  
Old 07-20-17, 08:13 PM
panott panott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
I am considering having both compression shorts and split shorts on athletes during cross country. The preseason manual for XC states:

1. Bottom may vary in length and style but must be the same color for all team members.

I read this to indicate I can have athletes wear both types of shorts in the same race.

I cannot find a similar statement for Track and Field. All I see http://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/Tr...d/TFmanual.pdf is:



No common color required? They only have to be issued by the school? I'm ok with that. I just want to be sure that I am not missing anything.

At a minimum it looks like they can wear both the split shorts and compression shorts on a relay team as long as they are issued by the school. Is this correct?
Just make sure you have the same striping on the shorts. I'd advise you to go straight black (or whatever color you choose) with no other color on them. They must be the same design, meaning the stripes or color pattern must be the same. The type, length, etc. does not matter. Also,keep in mind that shorts don't need to be issued by the school they only need to be approved by the school. That is what allows the kids to be able to buy their own.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-17, 10:36 PM
madman madman is offline
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I'm planning on using a solid color, but the track regulations don't have anything about the color or design of the shorts which I find curious. Only the CC regulations state the color has to be the same.
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  #7  
Old 07-21-17, 04:22 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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On a Relay... they must be the same color. I know this because at our District. we were told that our shorts did not match as our one kid had a full-gold stripe (old) down the side of their shorts and the others had only a half-stripe (new) . they all got the new.
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  #8  
Old 07-21-17, 06:17 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
I'm planning on using a solid color, but the track regulations don't have anything about the color or design of the shorts which I find curious. Only the CC regulations state the color has to be the same.
The rulebook stopped using the words "singlet" and "trunks" several years ago in favor of the words "top" and "bottom". The rule is exactly the same for both relay teams and cross country teams. The tops must be identical in color and design, they may vary in length and style. The bottoms must be identical in color and design, they may vary in length and style.

According to the press release, the 2018 rule book will remove the identical wording for the uniform rules in Rule 8 (cross country) and basically say to refer to the T&F uniform rule for relay teams.

Panott...the rule that uniforms must be approved by the school doesn't take effect until January 1. Technically, cross country uniforms this fall must still be "school issued." That said, I have never asked an athlete if their uniform was "school issued." I have disqualified one many years ago (before the uniform warning) because he had a University of North Carolina logo on the bottoms and it was obviously not school issued (he forgot to take them off before competing and nobody noticed until it was too late...I felt sick having to report that one to the referee).
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Old 07-21-17, 07:41 AM
madman madman is offline
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I don't disagree with the idea that the shorts should be similar in color. However, the fact that I can't find that stated in the rules, which I included in my original posted is a simple curiousity at this point.

Can anyone point to another rule for TRACK AND FIELD that is more specific than section 11.3 quoted above
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  #10  
Old 07-21-17, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
I don't disagree with the idea that the shorts should be similar in color. However, the fact that I can't find that stated in the rules, which I included in my original posted is a simple curiousity at this point.

Can anyone point to another rule for TRACK AND FIELD that is more specific than section 11.3 quoted above
This is as good as I can find from the same track and field manual you looked at:

Section 11.7. Additional Restrictions for Relay Races and Cross Country
Competition


Each team member shall wear the same color and design of school uniform although the length of the bottom or one-piece uniform may vary. If worn by more than one team member, the apparel must be the same color but not necessarily the same length. Any visible shirts (sports bras for girls exempted) worn under the top/one-piece uniform and other visible apparel worn under the bottom/one-piece uniform must be unadorned and of a single color. Stitching which is contrasting or of a different color to the single, solid color of the undergarment and which functions as the actual seam is legal. Visible garments worn under the top/one-piece uniform and/or the bottom/one-piece uniform do not have to be the same color. If worn by more than one team member, that apparel must be the same color but not necessarily the same length.



I'm too lazy to see what the actual track and field rule book states.
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  #11  
Old 07-21-17, 11:45 AM
jakeburg jakeburg is offline
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Our cross country teams have worn them over the years, though they're getting away from them now. Personally, I think they look a little weird, but we've never had a problem from an official standpoint.
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Old 07-21-17, 02:24 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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It's very simple. You get regular uniforms and shorts for everyone and each kid can get their own compression shorts to wear under them if they want. They can be any length they want. No issue.
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  #13  
Old 07-22-17, 04:11 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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From the 2017 NFHS T&F Rule Book:

4-3-2 (This is part of the T&F uniform rules)
Quote:
. . . Additional restrictions for relay races.

a. Each team member shall wear the same color and design of school uniform although the length of the bottom or one-piece uniform may vary.
8-6-1 (this is the Cross Country Rule)
Quote:
Each team member's uniform shall be issued by the school, worn as intended by the manufacturer, be of the same color and design and have the following restrictions:
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  #14  
Old 07-22-17, 11:04 AM
madman madman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
From the 2017 NFHS T&F Rule Book:

4-3-2 (This is part of the T&F uniform rules)


8-6-1 (this is the Cross Country Rule)

This is where I get nervous. The way the NFHS are stated it would seem that having some athletes with split shorts and some with compression shorts would violate the rules, but the way the OHSAA manual rules are stated it would seem that situation would be fine.

Altor - what say you?
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  #15  
Old 07-22-17, 12:58 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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The difference between split shorts and compression shorts is a difference in STYLE.

Uniform tops and bottoms (or one-piece) may differ in style and length. But they must match in color and design. Design, in this usage, means the pattern of the colors and such. E.g. if one competitor on a relay or XC team has shorts on with a white stripe up the side, they all better have that stripe.
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Old 07-22-17, 04:26 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Waist bands not allowed to be rolled has to make top-five for most ridiculous OHSAA rules, ever...
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Old 07-22-17, 07:18 PM
Con_Alma Con_Alma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Waist bands not allowed to be rolled has to make top-five for most ridiculous OHSAA rules, ever...
It's more ridiculous that girls do this. It's fad. I would have made the rule also and I support it. Clothes/uniforms should be forced to be worn the way the were intended as manufactured.
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Old 07-22-17, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con_Alma View Post
It's more ridiculous that girls do this. It's fad. I would have made the rule also and I support it. Clothes/uniforms should be forced to be worn the way the were intended as manufactured.
Call me old-fashioned, but I agree. I believe I've seen some boys roll their waistbands, too.
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Old 07-22-17, 11:16 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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For my part, the rule as it applies to rolling shorts down doesn't bother me much. But I am also not bothered in the slightest by athletes doing it. If they like the fit better, it wouldn't bother me if it were not against the rulers. I have had a couple of athletes (boys and girls) DQd (under the same rule) in the past for having their singlet bunched together because the extra small uniforms were still too large for them. So the "you must wear it as it was intended" rule on the whole is not my favorite.

I am interested in the uniform bottoms rules. We have kids who prefer the compression shorts (mostly sprinters but also a few distance kids) and some who prefer regular split shorts. The 4x400 can be a real pain when you get one or two kids with split side shorts and two or three kids with compression shorts racing on the same relay. We have had officials say that even though all are straight black they can't be on the same relay team or the same XC team. (I even once had an official tell me that they couldn't both be in the same heat of the 1600. That was a battle I fought.) So even though the rule says one thing the rule is in practical terms whatever the head referee says it is.
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Old 07-23-17, 12:33 AM
madman madman is offline
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This is my concern. We have used the same shorts in track and in CC. We make the kids buy their shorts. We've used compression shorts exclusively for a couple years, but I'm not a fan anymore and want to return to split shorts. However, I don't want to require kids to buy shorts they don't need just because a rogue official might not be up to speed. If some athletes want to continue using the compression shorts they've already paid for, I am ok with that. They shouldn't have to buy both just in case we run into an uninformed official.

The school buys and issues them. The kids then are assessed a fee and keep them.

I would like to get a clear written statement on the matter. Is this something my AD should be able to get from an OHSAA commissioner?
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Old 07-23-17, 05:43 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con_Alma View Post
It's more ridiculous that girls do this. It's fad. I would have made the rule also and I support it. Clothes/uniforms should be forced to be worn the way the were intended as manufactured.
Are you always a fuddy-duddy prude? Why does it matter, if runners want the elastic off their hips? Sometimes it is more comfortable to roll down the elastic, depending on the shorts. Confident that the OHSAA official who made up this ridiculous rule is not a runner.
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Old 07-23-17, 09:21 AM
Con_Alma Con_Alma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Are you always a fuddy-duddy prude? Why does it matter, if runners want the elastic off their hips? Sometimes it is more comfortable to roll down the elastic, depending on the shorts. Confident that the OHSAA official who made up this ridiculous rule is not a runner.
I don't think I am always a "fuddy-duddy prude".

I also don't know that it "matters" and if it doesn't matter then coaches and kids won't mind wearing clothes during competition the way they were intended when designed.

My comments were an opinion... a preference just as it appears that you have a preference to let them wear rolled up wastelands. It's nothing more than that.

The group of folks that agreed to implement this rule may not be runners but I know that I am and I agree with the rule. I prefer that uniforms be uniform. I think it looks good that way.
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Old 07-23-17, 09:51 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by madman View Post
I would like to get a clear written statement on the matter. Is this something my AD should be able to get from an OHSAA commissioner?
I would think that this would be something Dale Gabor could do. Perhaps a request to include specific language in the guidance sent to officials for XC and in the rules interpretation meeting in January. I wonder if this is addressed in the case book? I too would like to have something unambiguous.
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Old 07-23-17, 10:20 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con_Alma View Post
I don't think I am always a "fuddy-duddy prude".

I also don't know that it "matters" and if it doesn't matter then coaches and kids won't mind wearing clothes during competition the way they were intended when designed.

My comments were an opinion... a preference just as it appears that you have a preference to let them wear rolled up wastelands. It's nothing more than that.

The group of folks that agreed to implement this rule may not be runners but I know that I am and I agree with the rule. I prefer that uniforms be uniform. I think it looks good that way.
If a runner is more comfortable with the waistband folded, which results in faster times.....imo, the rule is a negative. It probably doesn't matter to the majority competing but if a few athletes feel better with them tucked, allow it.

Not saying you're wrong, just my opinion on uniforms is a bit more lax.
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Old 07-23-17, 11:29 AM
Con_Alma Con_Alma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
... just my opinion on uniforms is a bit more lax.
You and I agree on this point.

My opinion is a bit more stringent...yours is a bit more lax. They are different opinions.
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Old 07-23-17, 06:25 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Waist bands not allowed to be rolled has to make top-five for most ridiculous OHSAA rules, ever...
Except it's not an OHSAA rule. It's an NFHS rule.
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Old 07-23-17, 06:28 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
I would like to get a clear written statement on the matter. Is this something my AD should be able to get from an OHSAA commissioner?
This seems a bit overkill to me. Color and design must match. Style and length may be different. Trust me, it's been drilled into officials heads for at least 20 years.
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Old 07-23-17, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Altor View Post
This seems a bit overkill to me. Color and design must match. Style and length may be different. Trust me, it's been drilled into officials heads for at least 20 years.
Not effectively. Mathking's experiences are not unique. I don't believe there is a common understanding among all officials what constitutes a design versus a style. It would be nice to have something in writing that clarifies the situation.
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Old 07-23-17, 09:51 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
This seems a bit overkill to me. Color and design must match. Style and length may be different. Trust me, it's been drilled into officials heads for at least 20 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
Not effectively. Mathking's experiences are not unique. I don't believe there is a common understanding among all officials what constitutes a design versus a style. It would be nice to have something in writing that clarifies the situation.
I have to agree with madman here. I have had officials pull out all sorts of uniform rules that aren't rules. One year the clerk at the regional meet (track) was not going to let one of my girls relay teams run because their socks were multicolor (they were neon green and black tiger striped knee high socks) when I respectfully pointed out that socks were not part of the uniform I was told that there socks came up to their knees so they had to change or be DQd. The same person gave much the same ruling to the girls XC team at the regional a couple of years prior. I found this out when my track assistant, who was the girls head XC coach at the time talked me down. It is the closest I have come to getting thrown out of a meet in my career. The head referee at first just told me it wasn't worth fighting a battle over it and I should have them change. Fortunately I was able to get Joe Lenge to bring sense to the situation.

FIVE YEARS after the "all undergarments that are visible must be the same solid color" rule was changed I had an official tell to of my girls that they couldn't wear the bright pink jog bras they had on because they didn't match the other kids.

So I think this is still a problem.
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Old 07-23-17, 11:10 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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I'm sorry you all run into officials who apparently can't be bothered to read a rule book. But, if they can't do that, there's no reason to believe that a "clear written statement" from Dale Gabor or Dr. Ross would make any difference.
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