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  #31  
Old 06-07-17, 07:18 AM
CleveHoopFan08 CleveHoopFan08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Was a reason given for the delay?
Probably to make sure all the "i's" we're dotted and all the "t's" were crossed before releasing something of this magnitude?? Not really sure. Just a guess.
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  #32  
Old 06-07-17, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleveHoopFan08 View Post
Probably to make sure all the "i's" we're dotted and all the "t's" were crossed before releasing something of this magnitude?? Not really sure. Just a guess.
Also just a guess here: The OHSAA just released the football playoff region assignments on Tuesday. Perhaps they felt that would create enough excitement for a couple days, so they decided it would be best to delay the release of the hoops information.
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  #33  
Old 06-07-17, 02:06 PM
vikingsforever vikingsforever is offline
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ADs Scrambling???

With the end of the school year and kids transferring to other schools, athletic directors may be in communication with the OHSAA in order to get their competitive balance #s correct.
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  #34  
Old 06-07-17, 04:08 PM
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I wouldn't think end-of-year transfers figure into this since the competitive balance adjustments for the upcoming year are based on the rosters from this past year. IIRC, the deadline for submitting rosters to the OHSAA for this past season was sometime in mid-December. If a school had a player transfer in after that deadline, then I'm thinking it's a "freebie" for this season but will be taken into account if and when the roster has to be submitted for next year's competitive balance adjustments.
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  #35  
Old 06-08-17, 09:12 AM
PGEMF PGEMF is offline
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Numbers are posted

http://ohsaa.org/sports/boysbasketball/2018
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  #36  
Old 06-08-17, 09:19 AM
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I didn't see anything major in D2. Still makes no sense that Trotwood has 0 kids that don't live in their district. Anyone that thinks that they don't have any kids living in Dayton, Clayton, and Jefferson is living in a fantasy. They are also the biggest DII team with a supposed 361 enrollment number.
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  #37  
Old 06-08-17, 10:06 AM
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All 4 DII state semifinalists from this past season stayed in DII.

3 of the 4 DIII state semifinalists from this past season moved up to DII.

Both teams that played for the DIV title moved up to DIII.
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  #38  
Old 06-08-17, 10:06 AM
Snowman8 Snowman8 is offline
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I'm sure most will be interested in the larger divisions, but for those in Columbus who follow D3 and D4, here are some noteworthy changes (D4 is 127 and below):

- Centerburg (19-8 last year) is squeaking into to D4 with 126.
- Poor East Knox who only won a few games last year got bumped to D3 by hitting the minimum of 128.
- Typically powerful D4 private schools jumping to D3 are Africentric (152), Wellington (157), Newark Catholic (131), and Harvest Prep (193 with a whopping 120 CB addition).

After a quick check, no school in the state jumps two divisions. Harvest Prep has to be the closest at going from the 13th smallest Central District school last year based on enrollment, to now the 36th smallest simply by adding to Competitive Balance multiplier. HP went from being 45 boys below the Division 4 cutoff last year to only missing the Division 2 cutoff by 18 this year. And there's no recruiting there...

Division 4 in Central District will finally open up with the removal of Africentric, Wellington, Harvest Prep, and Newark Catholic, who have represented the D4 in Regionals in 8 of the last 9 years (if my 5 minute research is correct).

That also means that D3 will get much more difficult, which is a contrast from it's relatively light pool of participants in recent years. The numbers for D3 are 128-210. Additionally:

- D2 District runner-up Heath (201) and Johnstown (204) both drop to D3, which in itself immediately makes D3 a much tougher tougher and deeper district.
- To serve as some balance, D2 Amanda Clearcreek (210) and Horizon Science Academy (200).

First round games in this District for D3 could get ugly, but it should be pretty entertaining as the District tournament progresses. I'm not too familiar with other districts, but does any other areas/divisions have this much change?

Last edited by Snowman8; 06-08-17 at 10:45 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-08-17, 10:53 AM
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In NE Ohio, Benedictine, Cleveland Central Catholic and University School all jumped to D1. VASJ jumped to D2
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  #40  
Old 06-08-17, 11:07 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Gilmore Academy has a CB number larger than their enrollment count.
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  #41  
Old 06-08-17, 01:04 PM
CleveHoopFan08 CleveHoopFan08 is offline
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Anyone know why the page is now down?
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  #42  
Old 06-08-17, 01:25 PM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleveHoopFan08 View Post
Anyone know why the page is now down?
I saw a few people tweet at the OHSAA asking about it.
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  #43  
Old 06-08-17, 02:21 PM
hdvhsmgr hdvhsmgr is offline
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http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/boysbasketball/2018

Page is back up now.
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  #44  
Old 06-08-17, 03:53 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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D2 is going to be brutal. I can't wait to see what the Benedictine fans are going to think being D1 now.
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  #45  
Old 06-09-17, 07:56 AM
DPSluva DPSluva is offline
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Southwest Ohio D2

With the addition of Roger Bacon (traditional D3 regional winner) Cincinnati Summit Country Day, Shroder ( I know they have a Stud 6'6" Sophmore) and Northridge (Not sure how much they have coming back) the Districts all of a sudden get very tough for Taft, Trotwood, Dunbar, Alter, CJ, Carroll, Wyoming. Wonder will they get rid of the Springfield Sectional that usually produces one District qualifier. D-2 Southwest Ohio Just got interesting.
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  #46  
Old 06-09-17, 08:17 AM
Greenandwhite98 Greenandwhite98 is offline
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Not so much get rid of Springfield Sectional, just make Dayton D2 an Open Draw like D1 & D3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPSluva View Post
With the addition of Roger Bacon (traditional D3 regional winner) Cincinnati Summit Country Day, Shroder ( I know they have a Stud 6'6" Sophmore) and Northridge (Not sure how much they have coming back) the Districts all of a sudden get very tough for Taft, Trotwood, Dunbar, Alter, CJ, Carroll, Wyoming. Wonder will they get rid of the Springfield Sectional that usually produces one District qualifier. D-2 Southwest Ohio Just got interesting.
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  #47  
Old 06-09-17, 08:31 AM
CleveHoopFan08 CleveHoopFan08 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
D2 is going to be brutal. I can't wait to see what the Benedictine fans are going to think being D1 now.
I guess it depends on what type of teams they have coming back this year and subsequent years? Regardless, it probably means their road to the district tournament just got a whole lot tougher.

Didn't they play Ignatius tough last year?
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  #48  
Old 06-09-17, 11:01 AM
wheatfield32 wheatfield32 is offline
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each schools enrollment numbers are good for two years so will the CB be good for just 17-18 and revisited in 18-19 or does it follow the enrollment numbers? just wondering if there will be another potential shake up next year
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  #49  
Old 06-09-17, 11:16 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Originally Posted by wheatfield32 View Post
each schools enrollment numbers are good for two years so will the CB be good for just 17-18 and revisited in 18-19 or does it follow the enrollment numbers? just wondering if there will be another potential shake up next year
As I understand it, although the EMIS enrollment numbers are good for two years, the Competitive Balance numbers will be adjusted every year in accordance with the make-up of the previous year's roster. So yes, there could possibly be minor movement each year.
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  #50  
Old 06-11-17, 01:32 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
As I understand it, although the EMIS enrollment numbers are good for two years, the Competitive Balance numbers will be adjusted every year in accordance with the make-up of the previous year's roster. So yes, there could possibly be minor movement each year.
If they are going to do that, they should go back to updating enrollment numbers every year. Seems strange to have to update the districts, regions, and divisions every year but use 2-year old data.
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  #51  
Old 06-12-17, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
D2 is going to be brutal. I can't wait to see what the Benedictine fans are going to think being D1 now.
Oh well, it is what it is. Football is a bigger test in Div II as they will be playing schools that are twice their size; in that sport numbers and depth are a bigger advantage where as in hoops a couple key players can take you very far.
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  #52  
Old 06-12-17, 03:28 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
If they are going to do that, they should go back to updating enrollment numbers every year. Seems strange to have to update the districts, regions, and divisions every year but use 2-year old data.
Is it the same rule as for football where a team can only be moved up one division per year? I presume that's the case, but I haven't heard it definitively.
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  #53  
Old 06-12-17, 04:25 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Yes, one division from their current EMIS enrollment number. So someone with DIII EMIS enrollment number will not move up to DII one year and then DI the next year.
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  #54  
Old 06-12-17, 05:37 PM
CCA Fan CCA Fan is offline
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Lutheran East Girls

LE Girls moved from D4 to D2 in one year. Yappi, maybe that is not what you are referring to.
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  #55  
Old 06-12-17, 06:30 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCA Fan View Post
LE Girls moved from D4 to D2 in one year. Yappi, maybe that is not what you are referring to.
You have to look at their EMIS number first. Use that number to place them in a division. After you do that, you use the Competitive Balance Adjustment to give them their new number. A team is allowed to move up only one division from their new EMIS based on the adjustment. (basically, just forget what their division was from previous years)

I'm assuming that LE girls EMIS 2017 enrollment number placed them in DIII. After the adjustment, they are now in DII.

On the flipside, I know that there were some schools that dropped a division because of their EMIS number, then put back in their old division due to the adjustment.
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  #56  
Old 06-13-17, 12:43 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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I just spent a few mind-numbing hours looking at enrollment figures, who moved up, and who didn't.

Basically what I see is that the added numbers to enrollment moved some teams up that should have been moved up, and moved some up that shouldn't have been (or didn't need to be), and didn't affect others who needed to be affected.

It confirmed my idea that this approach won't solve the problem, and in the few cases where it helps, it's by accident. The formula basically treats a nerdy brilliant math student the same as it does an exceptionally gifted athlete with a high level of skills. Truly, it's nuts.

The majority of the schools with big add on numbers are private schools - and the vast majority of them are irrelevant in sports. I see several schools that are known to "select" students that just happen to be exceptional talents in sports being hit with a multiplier number like 10. Depending on the 5 students that 10 represents, and what kind of athletes they are, that 10 could be way more impactful on competitive balance than a school with a multiplier number of 70 that represents kids who fled there solely for academics.

Basically what has happened here is that the OHSAA has tried to fix competitive balance in sports by using a head count of kids that don't necessarily play sports. Yep. This is going to go well.
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  #57  
Old 06-13-17, 02:53 PM
Greenandwhite98 Greenandwhite98 is offline
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The CB balance numbers come from the rosters of the sports. While your initial premise is correct, this measure will not change anything, your rationale is flawed and inaccurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVCguy View Post
I just spent a few mind-numbing hours looking at enrollment figures, who moved up, and who didn't.

Basically what I see is that the added numbers to enrollment moved some teams up that should have been moved up, and moved some up that shouldn't have been (or didn't need to be), and didn't affect others who needed to be affected.

It confirmed my idea that this approach won't solve the problem, and in the few cases where it helps, it's by accident. The formula basically treats a nerdy brilliant math student the same as it does an exceptionally gifted athlete with a high level of skills. Truly, it's nuts.

The majority of the schools with big add on numbers are private schools - and the vast majority of them are irrelevant in sports. I see several schools that are known to "select" students that just happen to be exceptional talents in sports being hit with a multiplier number like 10. Depending on the 5 students that 10 represents, and what kind of athletes they are, that 10 could be way more impactful on competitive balance than a school with a multiplier number of 70 that represents kids who fled there solely for academics.

Basically what has happened here is that the OHSAA has tried to fix competitive balance in sports by using a head count of kids that don't necessarily play sports. Yep. This is going to go well.
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  #58  
Old 06-13-17, 03:16 PM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
You have to look at their EMIS number first. Use that number to place them in a division. After you do that, you use the Competitive Balance Adjustment to give them their new number. A team is allowed to move up only one division from their new EMIS based on the adjustment. (basically, just forget what their division was from previous years)

I'm assuming that LE girls EMIS 2017 enrollment number placed them in DIII. After the adjustment, they are now in DII.

On the flipside, I know that there were some schools that dropped a division because of their EMIS number, then put back in their old division due to the adjustment.
Sorry help me here. So the EMIS is calculated every two years. Lets say it is 120. The 120 will never change in two years. The CB number is calculated every year, lets say that is 20 in Year 1. 120 + 20 = 140 which equals D4 to D3. In Year 2 we still use EMIS of 120, but CB is now 5. That is 125 which means move back to D4 in year 2.

Is that right?
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  #59  
Old 06-13-17, 03:46 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
Sorry help me here. So the EMIS is calculated every two years. Lets say it is 120. The 120 will never change in two years. The CB number is calculated every year, lets say that is 20 in Year 1. 120 + 20 = 140 which equals D4 to D3. In Year 2 we still use EMIS of 120, but CB is now 5. That is 125 which means move back to D4 in year 2.

Is that right?
That's my understanding of it.

Anyone else see it differently?
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  #60  
Old 06-13-17, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
You have to look at their EMIS number first. Use that number to place them in a division. After you do that, you use the Competitive Balance Adjustment to give them their new number. A team is allowed to move up only one division from their new EMIS based on the adjustment. (basically, just forget what their division was from previous years)

I'm assuming that LE girls EMIS 2017 enrollment number placed them in DIII. After the adjustment, they are now in DII.

On the flipside, I know that there were some schools that dropped a division because of their EMIS number, then put back in their old division due to the adjustment.
LE's girls base enrollment increased from 94 in the previous cycle to 123 for the upcoming cycle, so yes, LE was going to be in DIII without any competitive balance adjustment.
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