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  #241  
Old 08-07-17, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Yellow_Jacket06 View Post
Littlefinger's days have to be numbered, right? Given the fact that Bran sees everything now, it's highly likely that he knows of the role he played in Ned's downfall. All he has to do is reveal it.

A lot of people seem to think (or hope) that Dany is going mad and becoming evil. I don't see it happening. Many of these people haven't been fans of hers since the beginning. Likely wishful thinking on their part. I mean she has been going out of her way NOT to slaughter innocent people even at the cost of losing allies and the war. Using dragons against an army in open field doesn't make her crazy. Until she starts torching villages and castles then she's still ok in my book.

Jaime is in too deep with Cersei. The writing has steadily made him into a noble sort of character over time but it's difficult to imagine him betraying his love. Perhaps Cersei shows no sympathy for all of the soldiers that got torched and Jaime can finally realize that she just doesn't care anymore.

I agree that I don't think Dany goes mad. I can see why they have her strattle that line though.


Also, can Bran see any of the future, or just the past?
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  #242  
Old 08-07-17, 07:09 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post


The Frey's weren't his buddies. Remember how he handled them when he got to Riverrun?
He had no moral difficulties with using them. He's as guilty as they are, as well pointed out by Crispy Tarly. Tarly pointed out several things he was ok with. I think viewers are fooled because of reasons I listed before, because his deeds can be put onto "the Lanisters," he looks the good guy. He has friends. He has friends that would side with him for unselfish reasons. He has friends that perhaps would die for him, maybe. And he's made some clever quips. But he's not a good guy.

It goes to my original point, how far can a character go and it's still morally solid ground to write them as "redeemed?" In MY POV, he's long past any such point. He's harmed societies. He's harmed legacies of societies. For the personal game of "name." AND, he couldn't even be bothered to leave the house to find a date. He's in the "yes even the worst people in history have had their grey moments" class of company and IMO, for the writers to be responsible (as if that's a requirement) the character should be written that way, unredeemable.

If he dies, it should be in the service of Cercei so that there's NO dispute he's a monster. I wouldn't have him kill Cersei. I'd have him kill Bronn or Brienne as one of them attempted to kill Cercei. That would sum up, who Jamie is, regardless it's unpopular with the fanbase. He's gone too far already, it's the lesson IMO needs sending.
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  #243  
Old 08-07-17, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
If he dies, it should be in the service of Cercei so that there's NO dispute he's a monster. I wouldn't have him kill Cersei. I'd have him kill Bronn or Brienne as one of them attempted to kill Cercei. That would sum up, who Jamie is, regardless it's unpopular with the fanbase. He's gone too far already, it's the lesson IMO needs sending.
Then who kills Cersei, if not Jaime?

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Valonqar means "little brother". So it seems like it would have to be either Jaime or Tyrion. Her and Jaime are twins but she was born first so he's technical younger. Unless "little" means exactly that, then Tyrion is obvious.
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  #244  
Old 08-07-17, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Yellow_Jacket06 View Post
Then who kills Cersei, if not Jaime?

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Valonqar means "little brother". So it seems like it would have to be either Jaime or Tyrion. Her and Jaime are twins but she was born first so he's technical younger. Unless "little" means exactly that, then Tyrion is obvious.
deliciously ambiguous isn't it? So much fun in these callbacks.
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  #245  
Old 08-08-17, 07:55 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Originally Posted by Yellow_Jacket06 View Post
Then who kills Cersei, if not Jaime?

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Valonqar means "little brother". So it seems like it would have to be either Jaime or Tyrion. Her and Jaime are twins but she was born first so he's technical younger. Unless "little" means exactly that, then Tyrion is obvious.
She certainly has no "littler" of a brother than Tyrion!
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  #246  
Old 08-08-17, 08:40 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
He had no moral difficulties with using them. He's as guilty as they are, as well pointed out by Crispy Tarly. Tarly pointed out several things he was ok with. I think viewers are fooled because of reasons I listed before, because his deeds can be put onto "the Lanisters," he looks the good guy. He has friends. He has friends that would side with him for unselfish reasons. He has friends that perhaps would die for him, maybe. And he's made some clever quips. But he's not a good guy.

It goes to my original point, how far can a character go and it's still morally solid ground to write them as "redeemed?" In MY POV, he's long past any such point. He's harmed societies. He's harmed legacies of societies. For the personal game of "name." AND, he couldn't even be bothered to leave the house to find a date. He's in the "yes even the worst people in history have had their grey moments" class of company and IMO, for the writers to be responsible (as if that's a requirement) the character should be written that way, unredeemable.

If he dies, it should be in the service of Cercei so that there's NO dispute he's a monster. I wouldn't have him kill Cersei. I'd have him kill Bronn or Brienne as one of them attempted to kill Cercei. That would sum up, who Jamie is, regardless it's unpopular with the fanbase. He's gone too far already, it's the lesson IMO needs sending.
We're obviously just dealing in opinions here, but I think you've been missing the character development that's been taking place in Jamie. Honestly, you may end up very disappointed as he's on my short list of characters that could be Azor Ahai.
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  #247  
Old 08-08-17, 09:29 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
We're obviously just dealing in opinions here, but I think you've been missing the character development that's been taking place in Jamie. Honestly, you may end up very disappointed as he's on my short list of characters that could be Azor Ahai.
I've not read the books and prefer to know and base my observations only what's depicted in the show so I don't really nor care to know to what you're referring. As to character "development," I don't think I've missed about the character. I don't believe there is character development that could redeem that person in real life so why should I in a show? I don't even believe they've showed development in the character that would give reason to presume he's changed his stripes. Even as recent as this season, he's been pretty much the same person. All that a different discussion than "redeemed." Redeemed means accounted for past deeds.

Yes, they're opinion but to then go and presume they're based upon "missed" information (from the show) and not provide that information, is weak. Also an opinion.
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  #248  
Old 08-08-17, 09:41 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I've not read the books and prefer to know and base my observations only what's depicted in the show so I don't really nor care to know to what you're referring.
Yeah, we're talking about the show so I'm not sure what you're getting at?

Quote:
As to character "development," I don't think I've missed about the character. I don't believe there is character development that could redeem that person in real life so why should I in a show? I don't even believe they've showed development in the character that would give reason to presume he's changed his stripes. Even as recent as this season, he's been pretty much the same person.

Yes, they're opinion but to then go and presume they're based upon "missed" information (from the show) and not provide that information, is weak. Also an opinion.
I don't really care to get into a lot of detail, or get offended (as you appear to be) over a matter of opinion regarding a fictional character on a show. If you haven't noticed the development, me laying it out on here isn't going to make you suddenly see it if the show couldn't.
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  #249  
Old 08-13-17, 09:52 PM
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Next week will be insane
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  #250  
Old 08-13-17, 10:11 PM
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Jamie and Bronn coming out of the far side of the lake was just dumb. But like I said, plot armor is light

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  #251  
Old 08-13-17, 10:28 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Basically a filler episode. However, next week will be out of this world.
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  #252  
Old 08-13-17, 10:54 PM
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What a crock of sh*t. No way does Sam completely miss that bit about Raegar getting an annulment. Now feminists are jumping on the mansplaining bandwagon.
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  #253  
Old 08-13-17, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
What a crock of sh*t. No way does Sam completely miss that bit about Raegar getting an annulment. Now feminists are jumping on the mansplaining bandwagon.
He'll remember it if/when it becomes important. He doesn't know yet about Jon's mama.

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  #254  
Old 08-13-17, 11:30 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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No, but everyone in Westeros knows why Robert went to war with the Targs. It should have lit a dozen light bulbs in his brain.
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  #255  
Old 08-14-17, 12:44 AM
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Seems like the theory about Jon being a trueborn Targaryen is correct. If that's the case, he has a stronger claim to the throne than Dany does. Hell, the only claim she has is centered on her being the last Targaryen. Not that it really matters in the end. Jon wouldn't have any interest in ruling even if he does survive the war to come.

The plot is thickening in Winterfell. I wonder what that note contained. Looks like a cat & mouse game between Littlefinger and Arya is beginning. I don't think the sly bastard survives past this season. He may be one cunning dude but I'm not sure he understands fully who he's dealing with.
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  #256  
Old 08-14-17, 02:58 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Fun how all those character stories came together at Eastwatch. Seems like we have all our missing characters except the Vale kid? I suspect they'll surprise and he'll turn out a pretty good soldier. Still stuff going in Esso, with the two camps of sell-swords. I have to believe that greyscale story isn't done. Connection between that and dragons?

Davos again get the best lines. I liked the homage to the fan jokes about Gendry still rowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Jacket06 View Post
Seems like the theory about Jon being a trueborn Targaryen is correct. If that's the case, he has a stronger claim to the throne than Dany does. Hell, the only claim she has is centered on her being the last Targaryen. Not that it really matters in the end. Jon wouldn't have any interest in ruling even if he does survive the war to come.

The plot is thickening in Winterfell. I wonder what that note contained. Looks like a cat & mouse game between Littlefinger and Arya is beginning. I don't think the sly bastard survives past this season. He may be one cunning dude but I'm not sure he understands fully who he's dealing with.
The note is fake, I'm betting that. It was something he wrote to turn the sisters against each other maybe. It's still children against the masters here, he is cunning.

Sam's mind was occupied with leaving and frustration, anything can get past but I agree with YJ, it will dawn on him. It was nicely played, obvious to the viewer while oblivious to the character. I think him leaving was the only plot point I didnt enjoy, liked his story there and thought he'd contribute more there. Not sure on which side he'll fall after he learns of his father and brother's deaths.

I see it, the dragons turn towards "cousin" Jon, or at least one of them. Daenaries got a lot of her brother in her, this obsession with bend the knee and immediate decisions. I don't really see them getting along. Maybe it'll be guys vs girls, that'd po the most people.

I saw the baby thing coming when she practically tore his cloths off, was thinking, "that's not how you make a baby," but don't know where they're going with it. Does make less likely Jamie will betray his sister.

Last edited by eastisbest; 08-14-17 at 03:10 AM.
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  #257  
Old 08-14-17, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Fun how all those character stories came together at Eastwatch.



The note is fake, I'm be betting that. Something he wrote to turn the sisters against each other maybe. It's still children against the masters here, he is cunning.

Samwell's mind was occupied, anything can get past but I agree with YJ, it will dawn on him. I think him leaving was the only plot point I didnt enjoy, liked his story there and thought he'd contribute more there. Not sure on which side he'll fall after he learns of his father and brother's deaths.

I see it, the dragons turn towards "cousin" Jon, or at least one of them. Daenaries got a lot of her brother in her, this obsession with bend the knee and immediate decisions. I don't really see them getting along. Maybe it'll be guys vs girls, that'd po the most people.
Not fake. It was the "bend the knee to Joffery" letter Cercie forced Sansa to write to Robb.

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  #258  
Old 08-14-17, 03:23 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by bob22 View Post
Not fake. It was the "bend the knee to Joffery" letter Cercie forced Sansa to write to Robb.
Good memory. I wondered where they were going with the statement last episode about every message ever being saved. How does that drive the wedge, Littlefinger obviously wanted Arya to see it.

Question: what ever happened to Barratheon's soldiers and houses? They now Lannisters? A guy becomes King has to have had power somewhere but it seems to be lacking in any way from the story.
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  #259  
Old 08-14-17, 06:12 AM
bob22 bob22 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Good memory. I wondered where they were going with the statement last episode about every message ever being saved. How does that drive the wedge, Littlefinger obviously wanted Arya to see it.

Question: what ever happened to Barratheon's soldiers and houses? They now Lannisters? A guy becomes King has to have had power somewhere but it seems to be lacking in any way from the story.
Most split between Renly and Stannis. Stannis' would have been wiped out by the battle on the Blackwater and whoever followed him north.

Renly's would have been wiped out in the war of five kings, or by Lannisters or Dany later on.



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  #260  
Old 08-14-17, 06:22 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Most split between Renly and Stannis. Stannis' would have been wiped out by the battle on the Blackwater and whoever followed him north.

Renly's would have been wiped out in the war of five kings, or by Lannisters or Dany later on.

So Gendry is it? Is he the third rider then? I think I read in something or other that the Stannis had Targarian blood, makes sense given their castle.
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  #261  
Old 08-14-17, 06:41 AM
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So Gendry is it? Is he the third rider then? I think I read in something or other that the Stannis had Targarian blood, makes sense given their castle.
I doubt Gendry makes it back south of the wall. His reappearance seems fan-servicey to me.

And yes, A Tarq was grandmother to Robert, Stannis and Renly.
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  #262  
Old 08-14-17, 07:19 AM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
So Gendry is it? Is he the third rider then? I think I read in something or other that the Stannis had Targarian blood, makes sense given their castle.
Both Jon and Tyrion have been able to pet one of Daenerys' dragons and live. It would make sense if those two are the other dragon riders.
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  #263  
Old 08-14-17, 07:32 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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I doubt Gendry makes it back south of the wall. His reappearance seems fan-servicey to me.

And yes, A Tarq was grandmother to Robert, Stannis and Renly.
I think Gendry has a bigger role to play. It's not like GOT to just do lip service to fans. My guess is the following don't make it back: Thoros, Barric Dondario, Jorah, and Tormund. The 2nd to last episode is always the biggest of the season, one more major death should be coming, im guessing LFinger gets it.

Also, I'm guessing Cersei dies in child birth. I'm not sure how it correlates to the Prophecy, but it would circle back nicely to her mother dying while giving birth to Tyrion.

Last edited by Descartes; 08-14-17 at 07:44 AM.
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  #264  
Old 08-14-17, 07:38 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
What a crock of sh*t. No way does Sam completely miss that bit about Raegar getting an annulment. Now feminists are jumping on the mansplaining bandwagon.
Maybe he would've listened if she wasn't talking constantly?
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  #265  
Old 08-14-17, 07:50 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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I liked last nights episode. It advanced the story and threw in some welcome surprises. As others have noted the next two weeks are going to be insane.

EastisBest makes a good point about Sam being very distracted by the approaching army of the dead to fully grasp the importance of the annulment. I thought they did a good job showing him highly agitated at the point he heard the news.

Yellow_Jacket I suspect that when all is said and done Littlefinger will run circles around Arya when it comes to deceitful backstabbing. He manipulated her into taking the letter which will damage her relationship with Sansa. The only thing LF may not expect is that Arya takes a more direct rout and puts that little sword through his neck.

Does anyone else think that when she sees her first walking dead person Cercie will plot to make a deal with the White Walker King?

Finally all this genealogy stuff is making my head spin. I'll just enjoy the ride while watching the show and let the writers work out who all is related to whom.
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  #266  
Old 08-14-17, 09:11 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Does anyone else think that when she sees her first walking dead person Cercie will plot to make a deal with the White Walker King?
Do they talk? Communicate with humans? I know she'd consider it. I feel as though the Night King would simply kill her and take her to his side that way?

The new Dickon made it for a cup of coffee.

Was it me or did last nights episode move REALLY fast? It was as if they gave up a tad of quality to run through everything quickly. And is there a time machine that I do not know about? Jon and the boys got to the Wall very quickly. Tyrion, Davos, Gendry all moved places at extraordinary speed. Even Jamie and Bronn were what appeared to be a mile downriver and back to Cersie in no time.

I was thinking this last night as I watched. Many cool names in this series. My boys graduated in 2013 and 2016 respectively. The first boy had a couple Shaquille's in his class and the next had a several Kobee's.

In 18 years how many Danery's and Tyrion's will be walking across a HS graduation stage?
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  #267  
Old 08-14-17, 09:17 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Do they talk? Communicate with humans? I know she'd consider it. I feel as though the Night King would simply kill her and take her to his side that way?
I'm not saying that plotting with the Night King would go well for Cercie but they have shown indications that the guy does plot and develop strategies and his very pointed raising of the dead in clear view of Jon Snow at the battle of Hardhome was meant as a clear signal.

My guess is if they go down this route Cercie would try to do a deal and the Night King might use it to not only trap and "turn" Cercie but any army that she would be bringing north to aid in the great struggle against the dead.
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  #268  
Old 08-14-17, 09:51 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post

In 18 years how many Danery's and Tyrion's will be walking across a HS graduation stage?
Hopefully none. Give those goofy names to your pets, not your kids, they have to deal with that they're whole life.
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  #269  
Old 08-14-17, 09:57 AM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I was thinking this last night as I watched. Many cool names in this series. My boys graduated in 2013 and 2016 respectively. The first boy had a couple Shaquille's in his class and the next had a several Kobee's.

In 18 years how many Danery's and Tyrion's will be walking across a HS graduation stage?
This article is now 2 years old, but Khaleesi is/was apparently growing in popularity as a name for girls: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2338949
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  #270  
Old 08-14-17, 10:13 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Bronn would be a good name. The others, yeah, something they'd have to live with.

Died in childbirth. Bet that's a good call. It would free up Jamie, no way he'd let Cercei raise another of his kids.

I suppose Dickon had to die. Dad's death wouldn't affect Sam, which I suppose was the point of that plotting but that bit I didn't enjoy. He was a big old puppy dog deserved a bit more in life. R.I.P.
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