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  #1  
Old 01-13-17, 10:09 PM
Ramrod413 Ramrod413 is offline
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US or Metric???

I saw that Florida is now using the metric system for measuring field events at all of their HS meets. Any opinions on this? I know as a Official who specializes in Long Jump, it's much easier to use the metric system. But some people are still stubborn & don't want to change. What are your thoughts?


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  #2  
Old 01-13-17, 10:19 PM
Run4Life Run4Life is offline
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Personally I prefer the US measurements, it doesn't have anything to do with being stubborn, but we have been using this method for all of my 61 years.

Also with most meets using hytek software it is easy to set the results to have both the US and metric results.
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Old 01-14-17, 04:37 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Entering results in Hy-tek or any other results software is literally 10 times faster using metric results. I would make that change in a heartbeat. It would take about 1 meet for everyone to get used to. The track is in meters. CC runs a 5k. It's easy enough.
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Old 01-14-17, 11:07 AM
Ramrod413 Ramrod413 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Entering results in Hy-tek or any other results software is literally 10 times faster using metric results. I would make that change in a heartbeat. It would take about 1 meet for everyone to get used to. The track is in meters. CC runs a 5k. It's easy enough.


I agree. The field events are the only part left that's not using Metric. It's much easier writing doesn't a jump of 6.02 meters compared to 19-10.75"


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Old 01-14-17, 11:10 AM
Ramrod413 Ramrod413 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run4Life View Post
Personally I prefer the US measurements, it doesn't have anything to do with being stubborn, but we have been using this method for all of my 61 years.

Also with most meets using hytek software it is easy to set the results to have both the US and metric results.


Actually that has everything to do with being stubborn in my opinion. Saying you're doing because you've done it for 61 years doesn't mean it's right. In that time they switched the running events from US to Metric. Why not field events? Many of the HS indoor events I go to the Metric system is used.


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Old 01-14-17, 07:25 PM
FossyWriter8 FossyWriter8 is offline
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I think it's a little more difficult for people to grasp the distances involved in field events when you use metric.
Running events are pretty easy — 100 meters is a little farther than 100 yards; 200 meters is half a lap; 400 meters is one lap; people say "mile" and "two mile" when they mean 1,600 and 3,200.
But field events are different.
If you say a high jumper cleared 2.07 meters, the general public is pretty much ambivalent. But you say the high jumper cleared 6-9 1/2, Americans can more easily visualize that height.
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Old 01-14-17, 10:30 PM
fanofrunning fanofrunning is offline
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I'm old, I'm an official, and I'm old. I would have no problem switching over to the metric system, especially in the long jump. I probably take too much time figuring out who moves on to the finals in this event with the fractions, because I do not want to mess it up. Metric would be easier, but I think plenty of folks are going to see that 6.46 meters won the long jump, and have trouble with it. On a related note, can we bring back the mile?
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Old 01-15-17, 08:55 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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There are plenty of old officials that do college meets and they do just fine.

We all know that 43' is further than 40'. Just like 13 meters is greater than 12.

Don't complicate it. It's just numbers. I have all the confidence in the world that older officials can read numbers and write them down. Give yourself some credit.

There really is no learning curve. I have very rough conversions in my head, but I don't even use them anymore. I just see 182 or 1.82 and don't even think 6' anymore. It's just 182 and I know that's better than 175 and worse than 190.
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Old 01-15-17, 01:23 PM
Ramrod413 Ramrod413 is offline
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At the end of the day all that matters is, who jumped the farthest or the highest. Who threw it farther? The bigger the number, the better you did. During the competition which is where everything matters. Let's make it easy & simple. Much easier to get your Top 9 using Metric. Now, once the finals are over we can convert the final results to Feet. With smart phones, you can easily convert meters to feet. Just a thought. I'm the president of my association & will bring this up at a meeting for a large invitation we put on for HS.


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  #10  
Old 07-28-17, 02:14 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
There are plenty of old officials that do college meets and they do just fine.

We all know that 43' is further than 40'. Just like 13 meters is greater than 12.

Don't complicate it. It's just numbers. I have all the confidence in the world that older officials can read numbers and write them down. Give yourself some credit.

There really is no learning curve. I have very rough conversions in my head, but I don't even use them anymore. I just see 182 or 1.82 and don't even think 6' anymore. It's just 182 and I know that's better than 175 and worse than 190.
Ah, but 1.83m is 6' 0", not 1.82m (5' 11 1/2"). Gotta use the conversion tables my good friend.
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Old 07-28-17, 02:27 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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The BIG hindrance to using metric exclusive, from my experience is two-fold:

1) Joe-Q-Public has no "feeling" for how far/high any metric measurement is. Years ago when I was involved, I was constantly quizzed as to what a particular metric mark meant...and that was at college meets! Parents and athletes in the US only have a "feel" for Imperial units (their proper term) based on historical experiences. I would recommend measurement in meters, but DEFINITELY print out results in both! Likewise, markers alongside the jumps and throws displaying both are desireable. Also, a good official will call out the metric mark, and do a quick flip-over of the tape measure to call out the general imperial mark as well (I've done this numerous times).

2) The BIGGER constraint against use of the metric system is our now 400+ years of use of the imperial system for everyday engineering, construction, etc., etc. Gazillions of drawings & systems exist that demand constant servicing using the imperial system. Changing over to metric use would be completely cost prohibitive UNLESS it were demanded that all NEW systems use metric. Then you would have a niche industry to "bridge-the-gap" from metric-to-imperial. It would take MANY decades to even make a dent in the conversion process. That is the ONLY way to make the transition that makes any cost sense at all.

Anyway, my 2 cents.
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Old 07-28-17, 06:06 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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As several people have noted it is much easier to measure and enter in metric. And software can print out results in both systems, so I really don't see a down side. We would speed up field events.

JAVMAN I agree that there will be big costs if we switch over to metric measurements as our standard. But there are lots of such costs being paid now because we have a global economy and we use both systems. As someone who regularly has to deal with integrating things with metric measurements and things with US customary units, I see this directly. For my part, one side benefit of moving more broadly (this is a very different topic than the thread) is the immediate improvement in US students' scores in mathematics compared to their international peers. Measurement is the weakest area for US students in math. And that is largely because our kids get taught two systems and the one they are more intuitively familiar with is much more difficult to use.
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Old 07-28-17, 08:14 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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I understand your input, Mathking. I don't know if anything you said was incorrect, but I've never had a problem toggling between the two systems. That may be because I'm an engineer...math was ALWAYS my strong suit . Not sure if changing to metric will do anything for US kids abilities...I suspect other things are more in play than the particular units used in measuring.
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Old 07-28-17, 09:56 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
1) Joe-Q-Public has no "feeling" for how far/high any metric measurement is. Years ago when I was involved, I was constantly quizzed as to what a particular metric mark meant...and that was at college meets!
The proper NCAA mechanic is to record in metric, but announce both. The few times I have done field events at an NCAA meet, I will read the tape measure in metric and announce that. Have the recorder read the number back to me that was written down. Then, I will flip the tape measure over and give the approximate imperial measurement. It may not be the conversion table number, but it's close enough for the parents that can hear my voice.

When I run the computer system, I always check the box to include the converted measurement in results for NCAA meets.
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Old 07-28-17, 10:25 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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US or Metric???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
I understand your input, Mathking. I don't know if anything you said was incorrect, but I've never had a problem toggling between the two systems. That may be because I'm an engineer...math was ALWAYS my strong suit . Not sure if changing to metric will do anything for US kids abilities...I suspect other things are more in play than the particular units used in measuring.


JAVMAN there is a really a pretty good body of research that shows that both US customary units are more difficult for students to work with and that the use of two systems makes students less able to estimate and intuit with measurements. In any event, when you look at internationally administered test data, the plurality of the difference between students in the US and students in the highest scoring countries is in measurement. Furthermore this pretty much holds true for every decile, meaning the highest scoring students in the other counties. The gap in measurement scores is much larger than the gap overall in math.

Back on the topic of the thread, as Altor and others have said, it is much easier to measure and enter in metric. So we should just do that and have software display both and announce both.
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Old 07-28-17, 04:05 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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In less than one season, everyone would be used to it. I have friends that work heavy construction that just think the Metric system is stupid and would be too hard for them and blah blah blah...Of course, every site they layout uses surveyors tools and tapes that take feet and divides each foot into 1/10th's. Every mile of highway they construct and drive on is divided into 1/10th's. Every person in any medical field does everything using the Metric system. All out automotive stuff is changing over to metric. Just do it and be done with it. I grew up using the metric system from 1st grade through end of college. So much easier it's not even funny. Just ignorance that we don't use it.
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