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  #31  
Old 01-17-19, 03:54 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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  #32  
Old 01-17-19, 04:10 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Power looms and spinning jennys, Mccormick's reaper and steam-powered threshers. What will they think of next.
You're comparing machines built to do a specific job to AI and robots deliberately built to replace humans in the work force. This is straight stupidity.
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  #33  
Old 01-17-19, 04:17 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
If we eliminated welfare a lot of the people sitting on the porch collecting a government check would find that $8/hour is better than $0/hour if they want to eat and not watch their family suffer.
I guess but $8/hr isn't good for much even fulltime. You'd struggle to live in Canton on that let alone somewhere with a national average cost of living. Businesses don't engage in activity if the return isn't sufficient, neither do people.
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  #34  
Old 01-17-19, 04:30 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
I guess but $8/hr isn't good for much even fulltime. You'd struggle to live in Canton on that let alone somewhere with a national average cost of living. Businesses don't engage in activity if the return isn't sufficient, neither do people.
It would be fine if you were uneducated, unskilled, and ill-prepared for a job that required any advanced skills or abilities. It would be fine if your other choice were to starve, that's a pretty good return on that effort. Might mean the low-skilled and poorly educated would stay at home longer, maybe get mom and dad interested in making sure they get an education or a skill so they could get the crap out of Dodge.

If we pay people enough on welfare that they aren't interested in working if they can, then we are paying too much in welfare. If you are still making minimum wage after a year or two, perhaps you messed up your life too much to move out of your parents house or to reproduce.
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  #35  
Old 01-17-19, 04:40 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Education has nothing to do with the realities of $8/hr. Full-time, that's ~$16k/year whether you have a PhD or dropped out in the 8th grade. That money is good for teenagers, people in college, or housewives who just want some spending money. It's not something that enables one to live well or gain skills. This doesn't excuse living off the government, either. But the reality is, if you want people to work, you have to incentivize it as much as anything else.
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  #36  
Old 01-17-19, 10:32 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Education has nothing to do with the realities of $8/hr. Full-time, that's ~$16k/year whether you have a PhD or dropped out in the 8th grade. That money is good for teenagers, people in college, or housewives who just want some spending money. It's not something that enables one to live well or gain skills. This doesn't excuse living off the government, either. But the reality is, if you want people to work, you have to incentivize it as much as anything else.
Jobs pay what they're worth. If you are educated and experienced and can't find anything to do that pays more than minimum wage you are probably being paid too much for whatever you are doing.

If nothing else, an adult that can't get a job paying more than $8/hour is a cautionary tail about their failure.
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  #37  
Old 01-17-19, 10:35 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by arizonawildcat View Post
One of the segments focused on a Chinese IT businessman recognized as the world's leading expert in the IT field. The one thing he said that struck me was that in 20 years 40% of the current jobs would be done by robots. Most of the lost jobs would hit the middle class: anything involving driving any type of vehicle, wait staff, barristas, etc. The question is, "Where will the new jobs come from?"
Increase in lawyers defending all of Trump Jr's Presidential Campaign.
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  #38  
Old 01-17-19, 10:36 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Jobs pay what they're worth. If you are educated and experienced and can't find anything to do that pays more than minimum wage you are probably being paid too much for whatever you are doing.

If nothing else, an adult that can't get a job paying more than $8/hour is a cautionary tail about their failure.
You want people to work for $8/hr without even attempting to understand the problems with it and why few people want those jobs. How people got there is irrelevant.

If you want people to work instead of get on welfare, you have to offer them a good alternative. Your solution is really nothing but malice and contempt.
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  #39  
Old 01-17-19, 10:38 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
You want people to work for $8/hr without even attempting to understand the problems with it and why few people want those jobs. How people got there is irrelevant.

I feel for those who have to work for that.

My first job in HS paid me 1.80/hour.

Aside of that, the last time I was paid 8/hr, Actually 8.50, was Part time at UPS in the early 90s!
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  #40  
Old 01-18-19, 05:35 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Education has nothing to do with the realities of $8/hr. Full-time, that's ~$16k/year whether you have a PhD or dropped out in the 8th grade. That money is good for teenagers, people in college, or housewives who just want some spending money. It's not something that enables one to live well or gain skills. This doesn't excuse living off the government, either. But the reality is, if you want people to work, you have to incentivize it as much as anything else.
According to the BLS 542,000 out of 80.4 million workers over the age of 16 who were paid hourly made minimum wage. That's. 007% of the hourly wage workforce.

Businesses have shown they are willing to pay for workers with even some skills.

The "minimum wage" isn't a problem.
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  #41  
Old 01-18-19, 05:38 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
I feel for those who have to work for that.

My first job in HS paid me 1.80/hour.

Aside of that, the last time I was paid 8/hr, Actually 8.50, was Part time at UPS in the early 90s!
At age 14 several of my kids started working as grocery baggers and carry outs at the local grocery. Starting pay was $9/hr.

It is really difficult to find anyone working for minimum wage right now.
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  #42  
Old 01-18-19, 09:28 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
You want people to work for $8/hr without even attempting to understand the problems with it and why few people want those jobs. How people got there is irrelevant.

If you want people to work instead of get on welfare, you have to offer them a good alternative. Your solution is really nothing but malice and contempt.
We pay taxes so that everyone can get a free education for 13 years, and that includes job specific skills if they are interested. And we pay more taxes to subsidize the education of anyone who want to continue beyond that. At what point in time does it become an individual's responsibility to make their own way in the world? When am I allowed to stop feeling sorry for other people's really bad decisions?

Or is that too malicious and contemptible for you?
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  #43  
Old 01-18-19, 09:49 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
We pay taxes so that everyone can get a free education for 13 years, and that includes job specific skills if they are interested. And we pay more taxes to subsidize the education of anyone who want to continue beyond that. At what point in time does it become an individual's responsibility to make their own way in the world? When am I allowed to stop feeling sorry for other people's really bad decisions?

Or is that too malicious and contemptible for you?
You must feel really sorry for billionaires to give them a $trillion plus break on YOUR back.

We pay taxes so YOU can get a public education and YOU can continue beyond that and YOU can live in a civilized society. This is what I love about poor uneducated red state republicans.
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  #44  
Old 01-18-19, 09:59 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
We pay taxes so YOU can get a public education and YOU can continue beyond that and YOU can live in a civilized society. This is what I love about poor uneducated red state republicans.
What? What American do my words not apply to?
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  #45  
Old 01-18-19, 10:12 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
You must feel really sorry for billionaires to give them a $trillion plus break on YOUR back.

We pay taxes so YOU can get a public education and YOU can continue beyond that and YOU can live in a civilized society. This is what I love about poor uneducated red state republicans.
I'm not a billionaire and I got a tax break last year. I know that some friends of mine that make less than me received tax breaks. I do know a few billionaires and they got tax breaks too. But we all continue to pay federal taxes, a lot of federal taxes, more than people that make less than we do.

Some people that I know that don't make much, they don't pay federal taxes, in fact they get rebates back on taxes that they didn't pay so they are not even contributing to their Social Security.

What was the point you were trying to make?
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  #46  
Old 01-18-19, 10:41 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
At age 14 several of my kids started working as grocery baggers and carry outs at the local grocery. Starting pay was $9/hr.

It is really difficult to find anyone working for minimum wage right now.
Yeah, no doubt.


Most places realize that if they want a worker who is worth a damn they wont pay them min wage.

Even when they do get a good worker they will leave for more money elsewhere.
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  #47  
Old 01-18-19, 11:09 AM
m14brian m14brian is offline
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So automation takes over a huge chunk of the workforce in 10 years.

Think deeply what that means before you jump to the conclusion that we are going to starve for the lack of work.

It means nothing of the sort. It means that goods and services will get cheaper as time goes on if indeed a automated computer/robot is producing this service. That means less time in the work week of humans. There will be work just not the kind everyone is used too and there will be plenty.

I challenging people too look at history in automation from the start of the industrial revolution this same argument/fear is made over and over.

Just think how better off the poorest amoug us in the USA in terms of the standard of living VS the richest person just a couple hundred years ago.
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  #48  
Old 01-18-19, 11:16 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by m14brian View Post
So automation takes over a huge chunk of the workforce in 10 years.

Think deeply what that means before you jump to the conclusion that we are going to starve for the lack of work.

It means nothing of the sort. It means that goods and services will get cheaper as time goes on if indeed a automated computer/robot is producing this service. That means less time in the work week of humans. There will be work just not the kind everyone is used too and there will be plenty.

I challenging people too look at history in automation from the start of the industrial revolution this same argument/fear is made over and over.

Just think how better off the poorest amoug us in the USA in terms of the standard of living VS the richest person just a couple hundred years ago.
Income disparity is rising - middle class wages stagnant for a decade.
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  #49  
Old 01-18-19, 11:20 AM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Income disparity is rising - middle class wages stagnant for a decade.
Let me guess, you think it's all Trumps fault!
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  #50  
Old 01-18-19, 12:12 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
Let me guess, you think it's all Trumps fault!
Not at all...I do think the tax cut made it worse, but it is a trend that goes back a couple decades. Many reasons. Global competition, automation/technology, wage pressure, executive compensation etc. The autonomous vehicle change coming in the next decade is potentially huge. Amazon alone will kill millions of jobs in retail/warehouse/shipping and delivery drivers. For example, FedEx views amazon as a threat to their business.
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  #51  
Old 01-18-19, 01:35 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
You're comparing machines built to do a specific job to AI and robots deliberately built to replace humans in the work force. This is straight stupidity.
Because power looms put weavers out of work and the spinning jenny did the same thing to spinsters? That's not exactly the same thing?

Oh I get it. You thought that string and cloth did not previously exist. You thought that in the mid-18th century Europeans still ran around in furs and leather like "cavemen."

Maybe you didn't know that reapers and threshers were specifically built to replace manpower wielding scythes and flails. Or maybe you believed no one ate bread made from wheat flour before the mid-19th Century.

Because I compare machines built to do a specific job to robots built to do a specific job I am straight stupid?

Maybe you're not stupid, maybe just ignorant.
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  #52  
Old 01-18-19, 01:54 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Because power looms put weavers out of work and the spinning jenny did the same thing to spinsters? That's not exactly the same thing?

Oh I get it. You thought that string and cloth did not previously exist. You thought that in the mid-18th century Europeans still ran around in furs and leather like "cavemen."

Maybe you didn't know that reapers and threshers were specifically built to replace manpower wielding scythes and flails. Or maybe you believed no one ate bread made from wheat flour before the mid-19th Century.

Because I compare machines built to do a specific job to robots built to do a specific job I am straight stupid?

Maybe you're not stupid, maybe just ignorant.
Again, you're comparing a machine replacing one line of work to technology aimed at replacing all work; AI and robotics are not limited to specific jobs but are aimed at all human work. It is an entirely different thing. It is not capitalist efficiency, it is techno-fascist and it will be an absolute disaster for humanity.
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  #53  
Old 01-18-19, 01:59 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by m14brian View Post
So automation takes over a huge chunk of the workforce in 10 years.

Think deeply what that means before you jump to the conclusion that we are going to starve for the lack of work.

It means nothing of the sort. It means that goods and services will get cheaper as time goes on if indeed a automated computer/robot is producing this service. That means less time in the work week of humans. There will be work just not the kind everyone is used too and there will be plenty.

I challenging people too look at history in automation from the start of the industrial revolution this same argument/fear is made over and over.

Just think how better off the poorest amoug us in the USA in terms of the standard of living VS the richest person just a couple hundred years ago.
This is moronic. If few people can't find work because automation, AI, and robotics have made much of human work obsolete, where are they going to get money from to buy things? It doesn't matter if a new product costs 1/4 the price it used to if people are operating from near 0. People who think about this stuff have understood this for a long time, hence the talk of UBIs. But as we've seen in places where UBIs have been tried, it makes people lazy. So our future on this path is one where there's no work, people are given small stipends to buy ultra-cheap goods, and everyone wants to die because there's nothing to do.
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  #54  
Old 01-18-19, 02:02 PM
Qcity Qcity is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Income disparity is rising - middle class wages stagnant for a decade.


Talking point # 2 this week.
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  #55  
Old 01-18-19, 02:04 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Income disparity is rising - middle class wages stagnant for a decade.
You must really hate Obama!
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  #56  
Old 01-18-19, 02:11 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is online now
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
The Romans thought that once too.
Today is far better than the past. Only old people say the past was better because they were young. They hate today because they are old.
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  #57  
Old 01-18-19, 02:23 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
Today is far better than the past. Only old people say the past was better because they were young. They hate today because they are old.
Truest statement on Yappi. EVERYTHING is better when you are young!

Except maybe senior discounts. Nothing like a 4:30pm early bird dinner.
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  #58  
Old 01-18-19, 02:32 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
So our future on this path is one where there's no work, people are given small stipends to buy ultra-cheap goods, and everyone wants to die because there's nothing to do.
And meechigan still sucks.

JHC Crusaders go out and get laid. Before robots take that over too.

Should actually help some of you.
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  #59  
Old 01-18-19, 02:43 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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What?
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  #60  
Old 01-18-19, 03:33 PM
JJBulldog JJBulldog is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
You must feel really sorry for billionaires to give them a $trillion plus break on YOUR back.

We pay taxes so YOU can get a public education and YOU can continue beyond that and YOU can live in a civilized society. This is what I love about poor uneducated red state republicans.


Ever time I come to this forum and watch these knuckleheads regurgitate the same nonsense, I feel the need to say to them:

There are only 2 kinds of people who vote Republican - The very wealthy and fools. Check your wallet to see which one you are.
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