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  #1  
Old 09-05-17, 12:43 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Later School Start Times in the US could save $9 billion a year, study finds

Quote:
Key Findings
  • The study suggested that delaying school start times to 8:30 a.m. is a cost-effective, population-level strategy which could have a significant impact on public health and the U.S. economy.
  • The study suggested that the benefits of later start times far out-weigh the immediate costs. Even after just two years, the study projects an economic gain of $8.6 billion to the U.S. economy, which would already outweigh the costs per student from delaying school start times to 8:30 a.m.
  • After a decade, the study showed that delaying schools start times would contribute $83 billion to the U.S. economy, with this increasing to $140 billion after 15 years. During the 15 year period examined by the study, the average annual gain to the U.S. economy would about $9.3 billion each year.
  • Throughout the study's cost-benefit projections, a conservative approach was undertaken which did not include other effects from insufficient sleep, such as higher suicide rates, increased obesity and mental health issues — all of which are difficult to quantify precisely. Therefore, it is likely that the reported economic benefits from delaying school start times could be even higher across many U.S. states.
Read more:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_r...adbpr=22545453
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  #2  
Old 09-05-17, 07:40 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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I'm all for it unless it results in kids staying up later than normal.

I would love to see a study in regards to kids ages 6-17 average bedtimes for today as opposed to 2007, 1997, 1987, 1977, 1967, etc...
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  #3  
Old 09-05-17, 08:19 AM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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With respect in particular to high school students being exhausted and not functioning well at 7:20 AM (or whatever the average high school start time is., it may be that parents simply have allowed their kids to develop poor habits in going to bed late.

My senior year (1975-76), I was hitting the sack no later than 11 PM. I remember classmates talking about some joke Johnny Carson had told the night before, and I'd be amazed they would have stayed up that late to find out. I needed my sleep to get up at 6 AM each day, especially since I realized I needed time to blow-dry my new hair-do and pick out an outfit before heading to school. Fashion and style sense came late to the young Zunardo, LOL.

My wife and I were adamant that our sons were in bed at a decent hour - 8 PM when the first few years, then 9 PM - middle school and high school, it was 10 PM. The older one decided to push it his senior year, and we gave him a little breathing room during his last few months, but we showed no mercy during the wake-up call. The younger one kept a decent bedtime schedule, woke himself up like clockwork every morning, and was always ready to face the day.

I suspect that elementary school kids are pushing late bed-time envelope by now - to midnight or even later.

IMO, changing to an 8:30 school day start is not going to have a significant effect. It's what goes on the evening before that has a greater impact. The outcomes predicted by this study are nothing more than wishful thinking.
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  #4  
Old 09-05-17, 08:32 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Did anyone actually read the article to see what they are basing this on?

hilarious
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  #5  
Old 09-05-17, 10:19 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Did anyone actually read the article to see what they are basing this on?

hilarious
never read internet articles. could be fake news
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  #6  
Old 09-05-17, 11:39 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I'm all for it unless it results in kids staying up later than normal.

I would love to see a study in regards to kids ages 6-17 average bedtimes for today as opposed to 2007, 1997, 1987, 1977, 1967, etc...
My kids never go to bed before midnight, up at 6. Not sure how they pull that off as I always needed 8-9 hours when I was in high school. I went to sleep a full three hours earlier than my kids and their friends. I think technology of all types is the difference, be it cell phones, internet surfing, video games etc.

I'm with you, I would love to see a study of sleep times going back 75 years or so.
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  #7  
Old 09-05-17, 12:12 PM
Myron Myron is offline
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Zunardo is on the money with his analysis.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-17, 01:38 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Not being silly here, but isn't the start of school times kind of where they are so Mom and Dad can get to work by 8? I mean, are we going to have a crush of parents who don't come to work until 9-9:30 now?
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  #9  
Old 09-05-17, 01:42 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
never read internet articles. could be fake news
the article is mostly about car crashes and less sleep.....
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  #10  
Old 09-05-17, 02:14 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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"Numerous studies have shown that later school start times are associated with positive student outcomes, including improvements in academic performance, mental and physical health, and public safety. While the benefits are well-documented in the literature, there is opposition against delaying school times across the U.S. A major argument is the claim that delaying school start times will result in significant additional costs due to changes in transportation, such as rescheduling bus routes. This study investigates the economic implications of later school start times by examining a policy experiment and its subsequent state-wide economic effects of a state-wide universal shift in school start times to 8:30 a.m.

Using a novel macroeconomic modelling approach, the study estimates changes in the economic performance of 47 U.S. states following a delayed school start time, which includes the benefits of higher academic performance of students and reduced car crash rates. The benefit-cost projections of this study suggest that delaying school start times is a cost-effective, population-level strategy which could have a significant impact on public health and the U.S. economy. From a policy perspective, the study's findings demonstrate the significant economic gains resulting from the delay in school start times over a relatively short period of time following the adoption of the policy change.

Key Findings

•The study suggested that delaying school start times to 8:30 a.m. is a cost-effective, population-level strategy which could have a significant impact on public health and the U.S. economy.
•The study suggested that the benefits of later start times far out-weigh the immediate costs. Even after just two years, the study projects an economic gain of $8.6 billion to the U.S. economy, which would already outweigh the costs per student from delaying school start times to 8:30 a.m.
•After a decade, the study showed that delaying schools start times would contribute $83 billion to the U.S. economy, with this increasing to $140 billion after 15 years. During the 15 year period examined by the study, the average annual gain to the U.S. economy would about $9.3 billion each year.
•Throughout the study's cost-benefit projections, a conservative approach was undertaken which did not include other effects from insufficient sleep, such as higher suicide rates, increased obesity and mental health issues — all of which are difficult to quantify precisely. Therefore, it is likely that the reported economic benefits from delaying school start times could be even higher across many U.S. states."


I read the article the first time. Did you? The entire thing is about the cost benefit analysis to moving the day back. Sleep being a large portion of that. The article mentions car crash rates, JUST ONCE, for a multitude of reasons (one of which is sleep). To say it is more about car crashes than sleep is ridiculous.
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  #11  
Old 09-05-17, 02:46 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunardo View Post
With respect in particular to high school students being exhausted and not functioning well at 7:20 AM (or whatever the average high school start time is., it may be that parents simply have allowed their kids to develop poor habits in going to bed late.

My senior year (1975-76), I was hitting the sack no later than 11 PM. I remember classmates talking about some joke Johnny Carson had told the night before, and I'd be amazed they would have stayed up that late to find out. I needed my sleep to get up at 6 AM each day, especially since I realized I needed time to blow-dry my new hair-do and pick out an outfit before heading to school. Fashion and style sense came late to the young Zunardo, LOL.

My wife and I were adamant that our sons were in bed at a decent hour - 8 PM when the first few years, then 9 PM - middle school and high school, it was 10 PM. The older one decided to push it his senior year, and we gave him a little breathing room during his last few months, but we showed no mercy during the wake-up call. The younger one kept a decent bedtime schedule, woke himself up like clockwork every morning, and was always ready to face the day.

I suspect that elementary school kids are pushing late bed-time envelope by now - to midnight or even later.

IMO, changing to an 8:30 school day start is not going to have a significant effect. It's what goes on the evening before that has a greater impact. The outcomes predicted by this study are nothing more than wishful thinking.
I think you are spot on here Zunardo, the other thing to consider here is how many of these kids, even as young as 4-5 years old, have televisions in their rooms and / or smart phones/ I-pads that they have "access" to after Mom/ Dad has put them to bed??
We have to stop changing the rules to fit irresponsible people. We give kids school supplies/ lunch/ breakfast/ even dinner and weekend meals in some places because we use the excuse that hungry kids can't learn. How about placing the responsibility to feed and properly rest their kids at the feet of their parents!!! If they don't make it, it's not the school's or the teacher's fault. We'll always have manufacturing and service jobs for people who don't care about education. Don't try to fit every kid into a high level curriculum, it's not necessary.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-17, 04:25 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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reducing car crash rates by pushing new drivers into the rush hour. What brain surgeon came up with this?


For farm kids, 8am is a late start. They're wide awake. For city and burb kids, as I mentioned, you're now mixing them in with the rush hour traffic. That's murder right there.
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  #13  
Old 09-05-17, 04:35 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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What if it actually saves $9b a year?
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  #14  
Old 09-05-17, 05:03 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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What if it saves 9B a year and can be shown to cost lives? Who gets to do that cost-benefit analysis for .05% (granting their numbers) of the US economy?

No true research study uses the word "could." They don't use words like "far outweigh," as if .05% is far anything. They give the methodology, the numbers and let popular magazine quotations do the subjective blathering. They're selling something. Its not the .05% that's got them excited. It's where that .05% would go, so, where would it go? Who gets it? Find that and find the bias.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-17, 11:01 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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It's been long enough, that I forget when exactly school started when I was in school. I think elementary and middle school was around 8:15-8:30, while High School started around 7:45. They weren't exact quarter-hour marks, it was always something odd like 7:48 or 7:42 or something.

I know part of the decision there was busing. The buses picked up the high school kids and took them to school. Then went back out on their routes to pick up the grade school kids. Repeat the process in reverse in the afternoon. However, for a high schooler, the first hour of school was pointless. Plus, my school got the bright idea to move 'home room' from before first period and sandwich it between 2nd and 3rd periods. I guess even they realized we weren't coherent before 8am for announcements.

That just meant your first class of the day was brutal.

As for me, my natural clock has never really let me be tired before 2am. Going as far back as junior high. Even before then, I just couldn't sleep. 2am to 10am or 3-11 is about my natural sleep habit. I'm a natural night person. If I go to sleep any earlier, I'm still not waking up until about 10-11am unless I have an alarm.

My father is the complete opposite. He grew up on a farm, and he sleeps from 8pm to 4am. My entire life as a child, that was his schedule. In his older years, he stays awake a bit later, but he's still up very early in the morning.
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  #16  
Old 09-06-17, 08:00 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
reducing car crash rates by pushing new drivers into the rush hour. What brain surgeon came up with this?


For farm kids, 8am is a late start. They're wide awake. For city and burb kids, as I mentioned, you're now mixing them in with the rush hour traffic. That's murder right there.
Thank you
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  #17  
Old 09-06-17, 08:01 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
What if it actually saves $9b a year?
thank you
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  #18  
Old 09-06-17, 08:02 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
"Numerous studies have shown that later school start times are associated with positive student outcomes, including improvements in academic performance, mental and physical health, and public safety. While the benefits are well-documented in the literature, there is opposition against delaying school times across the U.S. A major argument is the claim that delaying school start times will result in significant additional costs due to changes in transportation, such as rescheduling bus routes. This study investigates the economic implications of later school start times by examining a policy experiment and its subsequent state-wide economic effects of a state-wide universal shift in school start times to 8:30 a.m.

Using a novel macroeconomic modelling approach, the study estimates changes in the economic performance of 47 U.S. states following a delayed school start time, which includes the benefits of higher academic performance of students and reduced car crash rates. The benefit-cost projections of this study suggest that delaying school start times is a cost-effective, population-level strategy which could have a significant impact on public health and the U.S. economy. From a policy perspective, the study's findings demonstrate the significant economic gains resulting from the delay in school start times over a relatively short period of time following the adoption of the policy change.

Key Findings

•The study suggested that delaying school start times to 8:30 a.m. is a cost-effective, population-level strategy which could have a significant impact on public health and the U.S. economy.
•The study suggested that the benefits of later start times far out-weigh the immediate costs. Even after just two years, the study projects an economic gain of $8.6 billion to the U.S. economy, which would already outweigh the costs per student from delaying school start times to 8:30 a.m.
•After a decade, the study showed that delaying schools start times would contribute $83 billion to the U.S. economy, with this increasing to $140 billion after 15 years. During the 15 year period examined by the study, the average annual gain to the U.S. economy would about $9.3 billion each year.
•Throughout the study's cost-benefit projections, a conservative approach was undertaken which did not include other effects from insufficient sleep, such as higher suicide rates, increased obesity and mental health issues — all of which are difficult to quantify precisely. Therefore, it is likely that the reported economic benefits from delaying school start times could be even higher across many U.S. states."


I read the article the first time. Did you? The entire thing is about the cost benefit analysis to moving the day back. Sleep being a large portion of that. The article mentions car crash rates, JUST ONCE, for a multitude of reasons (one of which is sleep). To say it is more about car crashes than sleep is ridiculous.
this is hilarious

KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK
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  #19  
Old 09-06-17, 06:12 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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In all my years this has to be the biggest back up boogaloo I've ever seen.


A couple cheap "thank yous" after trying to call people out for not reading the article AND saying it was more about car crashes than sleep.
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  #20  
Old 09-06-17, 06:33 PM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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We're not out of the woods yet. Now we've got to hash out whether banning cellphones for drivers will contribute $83 million to the economy.
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  #21  
Old 09-08-17, 07:31 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by Zunardo View Post
We're not out of the woods yet. Now we've got to hash out whether banning cellphones for drivers will contribute $83 million to the economy.
billion with a B most likely
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  #22  
Old 09-08-17, 07:31 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
In all my years this has to be the biggest back up boogaloo I've ever seen.


A couple cheap "thank yous" after trying to call people out for not reading the article AND saying it was more about car crashes than sleep.
thank you
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