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  #1  
Old 05-13-18, 08:36 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Do we have a problem with officials?

A few concerns arose recently about officials.

1. Missing calls because they aren't paying attention
2. Being very subjective when deciding to do anything.
3. Running field events so slowly that they interfere with athletes in other events.
4. Inn some cases not even having rule books or appeal forms with them at meets.

Last edited by ccrunner609; 05-15-18 at 08:51 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-13-18, 09:02 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Meet Director
Rules Committee
Head Referee

There is a chain of command and proper format to voice concerns and get correctable errors fixed. Not sure how officials can determine how fast a field event runs when there are time limits on how long a competitor can take once they are called as "up". The officials can't make them go faster than the time they are allowed.

The issue I have is that League meets, Districts, Regionals and State are officiated much differently than Dual meets and regular season Invites and it causes problems with athletes that are used to doing something and then not being able to do that now. I had a thrower that wore the same undergarment every meet and then at the league the official would not allow it because of the logo's. I actually agreed with the official but the logo's are black on black Under Armor and every other official so far this year has allowed it. No big deal. It was handled appropriately.

Everything should be gone over before the meets start.
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Old 05-14-18, 06:20 AM
fanofrunning fanofrunning is offline
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I would agree consistency is an issue. But early in the season I would rather an official allow a kid with a uniform infraction to participate and explain "when you get to your league meet or state tournament this (infraction) will not be allowed." The kid is allowed to run and gets educated and hopefully fixes the issue the next meet. Sometimes these minor things can balloon into time-wasting discussions/arguments that lead to 5 hour meets. Uh, wait, that's another discussion.
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Old 05-14-18, 08:42 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofrunning View Post
"when you get to your league meet or state tournament this (infraction) will not be allowed."
This is something that should never be said. It gives the impression that we don't care about the rules or the meets until league week.

Usually, early in the season everybody is still in their sweats until right before race time. I often won't see uniform violations until after the event has begun. I simply give them their warning for the day and tell them there is no disqualification for now, but they need to correct it before their next race. The rules are followed and everybody is happy.
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Old 05-14-18, 09:30 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
This is something that should never be said. It gives the impression that we don't care about the rules or the meets until league week.

Usually, early in the season everybody is still in their sweats until right before race time. I often won't see uniform violations until after the event has begun. I simply give them their warning for the day and tell them there is no disqualification for now, but they need to correct it before their next race. The rules are followed and everybody is happy.
This is the way to handle it.
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Old 05-14-18, 08:10 PM
fanofrunning fanofrunning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
This is something that should never be said. It gives the impression that we don't care about the rules or the meets until league week.
Actually, I can't disagree with this. But who, besides me, heard this or a similar statement at some point in their careers?

"Because it's so cold today, we're not worried about uniform violations." Direct quote from meet director during coaches meeting prior to first meet of 2017 season. And not one coach or official disagreed. Can't say I blame them. It was darn cold and rainy to boot.

It is very hard to be 100% consistent. Reference a few years back at the state 3200 when the young lady helped another competitor across the finish line and neither competitor was dq'd. "Well, it didn't affect the scoring." A rule's a rule, right?
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Old 05-14-18, 08:32 PM
Run4Life Run4Life is offline
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1, if the issue is a uniform issue, I blame the coaches for most of the issue. We are supposed to know the current uniform rules, and WE should be making sure we emphasis this to our athletes from meet one on. I have asked an official to disqualify one of my athletes in a race he won and set a school record because he refused to follow the uniform rules I stressed for the 1st couple of races. This respected official offered to take the runner aside and let him know he needed to change his uni for his next event but I stressed he needed this because he said no official had told him prior. He didn't try to do this again.

2, on the other hand, at our league meet last Tuesday the clerk (a licensed official btw) told our 4x8 guys there team shorts were not conforming because 2 had spandex and 2 had track shorts. All were same color, no piping. We told him his interpretation was incorrect, but he would not change his decision. We put the kids all in the track shorts, but it is hard to understand that he didn't know it was color, not style.
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Old 05-14-18, 08:41 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run4Life View Post
1, if the issue is a uniform issue, I blame the coaches for most of the issue. We are supposed to know the current uniform rules, and WE should be making sure we emphasis this to our athletes from meet one on. I have asked an official to disqualify one of my athletes in a race he won and set a school record because he refused to follow the uniform rules I stressed for the 1st couple of races. This respected official offered to take the runner aside and let him know he needed to change his uni for his next event but I stressed he needed this because he said no official had told him prior. He didn't try to do this again.

2, on the other hand, at our league meet last Tuesday the clerk (a licensed official btw) told our 4x8 guys there team shorts were not conforming because 2 had spandex and 2 had track shorts. All were same color, no piping. We told him his interpretation was incorrect, but he would not change his decision. We put the kids all in the track shorts, but it is hard to understand that he didn't know it was color, not style.


This is exactly why this thread started. Completely wrong call on a subject that has been kicked around for years.
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Old 05-15-18, 12:05 AM
Run4Life Run4Life is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
[/B]

This is exactly why this thread started. Completely wrong call on a subject that has been kicked around for years.
I am not an official, so I don't know what happens in their meetings...but I am sure they don't spend a fraction of the time on this issue that is delve by the coaches at the rules meetings at the clinic. I agree, this needs to be interpreted the same way at every meet.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:13 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
[/B]

This is exactly why this thread started. Completely wrong call on a subject that has been kicked around for years.
Unfortunately in officialdom, understanding of rules and why they exist in the first place can't always be taught or learned by going to "official" school. There are things that can't be understood unless one has been an athlete for sometime themselves in the particular event they are officiating. Too many officials appear to be interested in the "process" of officiating instead of the "outcome" of officiating. The aforementioned official appears not to understand that "difference" of clothing does not extend beyond color. Reminds me of the old bra-strap issues of years gone by. Complete non-sense.

I once almost had to go to-the-mat with an official in a regional final in the high jump. My athlete and the other athlete were duking-it-out in the high jump for a spot to the state meet. The other athlete, a fine athlete and good person, was also busy competing in a running event at the time the bar was raised to a competitive level where a clearance would make the decision. When the athlete returned to the competition, they were told they would get 5 minutes to jump FOR EACH attempt, instead of the then rule (I don't know what it is now) of you get 5 minutes to make the INITIAL attempt once you returned from an event and only a few competitors were left. This official DID give the person 5 minutes for each their 3 attempts, while holding everyone else to 1 minute per! Unbelievable! Unfortunately for that athlete, but fortunately for mine, that athlete missed all 3 attempts and my athlete went through to state.

Yes, proper officiating REQUIRES understanding why a rule exists and its applications instead of just that the rule exists. Too much is left to interpretation too many times. This is not necessarily a reflection on the official themselves as many are dedicated and love their work, but more on the need to educate just beyond rule 1, rule 2, rule 3, etc.

Last edited by JAVMAN83; 05-15-18 at 08:15 AM.. Reason: Update
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  #11  
Old 05-15-18, 06:20 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run4Life View Post
I am not an official, so I don't know what happens in their meetings...but I am sure they don't spend a fraction of the time on this issue that is delve by the coaches at the rules meetings at the clinic.
If that were only true.

The running joke at our meetings is that we can't call it a rules meeting if somebody doesn't bring up a uniform question. We spend entirely too much time on rules that really don't affect the athletes' ability to perform and it drives many of us up a wall.

And we blame the clothing manufacturers who know darn well what the NFHS rules are regarding logos (it's the same rule in every sport), yet constantly try to find ways around them.
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Old 05-15-18, 09:15 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Very simple solution. We have never had a uniform issue because we order all uniforms alike. No Choice. No problem. Coaches want to push it for some reason. Not worth the headache. If our team is too big, JV's get old uniforms and we switch them out once tournament starts if a JV moves up to varsity.

I'll be more critical about officiating once coaches start knowing some of the rules. Worst sport in the world for coaches not knowing the rules.
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Old 05-16-18, 06:44 AM
runnerboy1510 runnerboy1510 is offline
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Only if it was that simple psycho_dad. Try outfitting a team of 250+ kids each season. It's very expensive and when your school doesn't allow coaches to hold grades till uniforms are turned in, it makes it even more difficult to ensure you get each uniform back every season.
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Old 05-16-18, 07:29 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Seems to be additional new officials this year. At our league meet in the long jump a teams kid jumped and butt scooped the sand about 18" behind the feet. The marking people went for the foot marking while the official just watched. I said something along with another coach and the official and marking team did nothing.

Didn't impact my kids finishes, but did bump a few other kids down.

But they really want the uniform tops tucked in, priorities.



Overall though, been happy with the officials this year.
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Old 05-16-18, 08:49 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnerboy1510 View Post
Only if it was that simple psycho_dad. Try outfitting a team of 250+ kids each season. It's very expensive and when your school doesn't allow coaches to hold grades till uniforms are turned in, it makes it even more difficult to ensure you get each uniform back every season.
Starting at the District meet, 17 events per gender. If no one doubles you only have to have 34 uniforms. So, say between 26 and 42 uniforms per gender to account for sizes. Not that bad. Rest of the season can use different look uniforms. We have 70 boys and 50 girls. It's that simple. Never have had a problem and we have plenty of kids not turn in uniforms. Unless they are seniors, not a big problem.
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