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  #1  
Old 05-03-18, 08:59 PM
WalshBacker WalshBacker is online now
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For Track Coaches, controversy in North Canton, is it safe to pole vault in the rain?

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/2018...in-eligibility

Article from the Canton Rep. Your thoughts?
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Old 05-03-18, 09:15 PM
Ts1960 Ts1960 is offline
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http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/2018...ing-for-hoover
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Old 05-03-18, 09:19 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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So why is he banned from pole vaulting for not practicing one day? That sounds a little ridiculous on North Canton’s part
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Old 05-03-18, 09:35 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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To my reading, IF everything is as it appears from these two articles, the reaction by the coach and the school district is completely out-of-whack. While it is possible, and doable, to vault in the rain of a light nature, it takes skill and the resources to keep pole and hands dry in retaining the grip.

Word to the family and their lawyer - There is precedent for action against the school district. OHSAA itself moved the State meet pole vault and high jump competitions INDOORS for parts of the 1979 and 1986 competitions DUE TO RAIN and the associated dangers with not only slipping hands in the vault, but slipping feet in the high jump take off. The family's lawyers probably didn't know those facts, but I'm stating them here for their benefit.
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Old 05-03-18, 09:38 PM
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I highly doubt the kid stays at Hoover. Unless the family can meet one of the OHSAA's exceptions (moving would be the most likely one), he would have to transfer within the next 2 weeks to beat the date when the new transfer rule (2nd half of the season plus the postseason) would go into effect, assuming it passes. As of now, it seems like the new rule will pass.

That said, it seems that the kid was willing to accept not being allowed to vault at that weekend's invitational (which may have been cancelled, or they may have elected to not attend anyway because of the weather on April 7), but his father couldn't leave well enough alone.
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Old 05-03-18, 11:04 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Not nearly enough information to conclude anything from those articles. There are a lot of things you can do in the vault in the rain that are not dangerous. If you can run a sprinters workout, then it is not unreasonable that there are some things that can be worked on at the vault.

As far as first amendment rights being violated, that's sort of funny. You can't just say anything or be insubordinate and break a team rule and not suffer some consequences.

I had to deal with a kid that went to private coaching over the winter. I encouraged him as he needed the work. All of a sudden, I didn't know as much as I had the years before and one of his private coaches from the club should be at the meets and maybe we should send him to this or that meet alone. It was like breaking him out of a cult. (not kidding even a little) I had to tell him that I coached for the school and if he wanted to participate on the school team, he had me as a coach and he had to come to every practice and every meet the team went to, It was not pleasant for a while. He is more than welcome to have stayed with the club, but the club is not in the OHSAA.

Last edited by psycho_dad; 05-04-18 at 05:46 AM..
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Old 05-03-18, 11:58 PM
Ts1960 Ts1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I highly doubt the kid stays at Hoover. Unless the family can meet one of the OHSAA's exceptions (moving would be the most likely one), he would have to transfer within the next 2 weeks to beat the date when the new transfer rule (2nd half of the season plus the postseason) would go into effect, assuming it passes. As of now, it seems like the new rule will pass.

That said, it seems that the kid was willing to accept not being allowed to vault at that weekend's invitational (which may have been cancelled, or they may have elected to not attend anyway because of the weather on April 7), but his father couldn't leave well enough alone.
You nailed it about the father, he has been ripping NC for years now from the Super to the Board to the coaches.
Typical helicopter parent who thinks his kid doesn’t have to listen to anyone but his “club” coaches.
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Old 05-04-18, 07:34 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Not nearly enough information to conclude anything from those articles. There are a lot of things you can do in the vault in the rain that are not dangerous. If you can run a sprinters workout, then it is not unreasonable that there are some things that can be worked on at the vault.

As far as first amendment rights being violated, that's sort of funny. You can't just say anything or be insubordinate and break a team rule and not suffer some consequences.

I had to deal with a kid that went to private coaching over the winter. I encouraged him as he needed the work. All of a sudden, I didn't know as much as I had the years before and one of his private coaches from the club should be at the meets and maybe we should send him to this or that meet alone. It was like breaking him out of a cult. (not kidding even a little) I had to tell him that I coached for the school and if he wanted to participate on the school team, he had me as a coach and he had to come to every practice and every meet the team went to, It was not pleasant for a while. He is more than welcome to have stayed with the club, but the club is not in the OHSAA.
We have had this problem with PV before. When a kid's private coach was literally behind the fence telling them to do different things than our PV coach was telling them to do at the meet. It lead to a long series of tense interactions between the parents and the coaching staff (not so much with the athlete, who was mostly caught in the middle) and I had to make clear that the athlete would not vault if our PV coach, who along with me was responsible for the athlete's safety, was not the one in charge.
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Old 05-04-18, 11:31 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I highly doubt the kid stays at Hoover. Unless the family can meet one of the OHSAA's exceptions (moving would be the most likely one), he would have to transfer within the next 2 weeks to beat the date when the new transfer rule (2nd half of the season plus the postseason) would go into effect, assuming it passes. As of now, it seems like the new rule will pass.

That said, it seems that the kid was willing to accept not being allowed to vault at that weekend's invitational (which may have been cancelled, or they may have elected to not attend anyway because of the weather on April 7), but his father couldn't leave well enough alone.
The bolded part seems to be the biggest issue. There are literally 1000s of parents that think their son's (or daughter's) coaches do not know what they are doing. MOST of them keep their mouth shut or only complain to people close to them.

If what the paper reported is true that the parent suggested the kid would practice at a private facility and only show up for meets, you can't blame the coach for choosing different athletes to compete that would represent the team and the school better.
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  #10  
Old 05-04-18, 12:55 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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So why was he kicked off the team for missing one practice? I’m guessing there has been past dislike between the dad and the school and the school is taking it out on the kid
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Old 05-04-18, 01:01 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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The kid wasn't kicked off the team. He was suspended from vaulting for one meet. Then suspended from vaulting for the rest of the season when parents got involved. Now, he can run and do all other events except for the PV.
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  #12  
Old 05-05-18, 05:54 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/2018...-be-reinstated

The magistrate is recommending to the judge that he be reinstated and be allowed to participate in the pole vault. But she also suggested denying the motion that he participate "without complying with the directives and decisions of his coach."

I'm glad he was reinstated, but I can't believe they tried to essentially say he should be reinstated AND do whatever he wants.

The proper channel for this is the school board. It's more than a rubber stamp for a Super. Run for it and change the situation in the district if there's so much bad blood developing.
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Old 05-05-18, 07:38 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
The kid wasn't kicked off the team. He was suspended from vaulting for one meet. Then suspended from vaulting for the rest of the season when parents got involved. Now, he can run and do all other events except for the PV.
So he was kicked off the team for nothing. God North Canton must have some idiots running that school
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  #14  
Old 05-05-18, 07:46 PM
hitme hitme is offline
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Raider your reading comprehension needs some work
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  #15  
Old 05-06-18, 11:08 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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The young athlete competed in events at the Hornet relays on Saturday (according to the results - LJ, 4 x100, 4 x 200). Seemed like a good kid and contributed to his team. He was never "kicked Off" the team.

It seems like a situation where an outside influence - Outside the school team/coaches (ie. parent, peers, AAU coach, summer league coach, ect. - or a couple of these) has the kid doubting the the coaches. It is my experience, that once one kid does this, others will follow if it is not "nipped in the bud". i'm not saying that Hoover did everything like I would, but it needed to be adressed. I have had similar issues, and Have told kids that if they did want to do it our way that "the baseball or softball team" may benifit from their services. This includes things like: practicing in cold/wet weather; the way we do relay exchanges, various technique issues, what event they do to help the team and even what they do after school (especially during Prom week).
I beleive that Hoover coaches did and will continue to do what they feel is best for the all their kids and the program.
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Old 05-06-18, 11:22 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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as far as the original question: is it safe to polevault in the rain?
Sometimes, sometime not. Same goes for windy conditions.
I know one young man that is glad the our school practiced in poor conditions as when he went the college and it was cold, windy and spitting rain at the Big Ten championships he was able to defeat guys that may have not been used to NE ohio weather in April. As ohter vaulters were shivering and no heighting, he just did what he did in high school about 10 times a season and defeated guy who had PR's 2 feet higher that his.

If you make adjustments (use the 3-4 step approach, hold lower, etc.) it can not only be safe, but a very benificial pactice.
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Old 05-06-18, 12:20 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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I still have the question to be resolved: was it raining (heavy, medium, light, misting) or was it not at the time the coach requested that he vault in practice? I've not seen sufficient information with regard to this. Do I think it is reasonable for a coach of a HS kid, particularly a less experienced one, to vault in either a medium or heavy rain? Absolutely not and I would expect any kid or parent to question the sanity of such a coach, and also that of any school district administrators that would back up the coach on any such decision. Such conditions are absolutely one accidental slip away from complete disaster, not only for the kid, but for the coach and school district, and the sport, from happening. There's already been too many accidents in the past. I had my own share of them back in the day when we had NO coaches to speak of and had to learn-by-doing on our own.

If it was raining, but of a very light or misting nature, then it should be a judgment call between coach & athlete. I don't know the coach in question or his/her experience. I can tell you this, though, school districts should seek vault coaches that not only get certification, but also have a personal vaulting history of their own to work from. All the difference in the world between knowledge of an event and having one's own practical experiences to work from. I hope such is the case for all the young vaulters out there.

Lastly, as I stated earlier, OHSAA felt strongly enough about the safety of young athletes to move the 1979 & 1986 vault & high jump competitions indoors to French Field House at the State meet DUE TO THE RAIN.
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  #18  
Old 05-09-18, 04:24 AM
Purple66 Purple66 is offline
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During the outdoor season if it is raining and the school has a indoor Pole vault,Long jump and throwing area are they aloud to be used?
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Old 05-09-18, 11:17 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple66 View Post
During the outdoor season if it is raining and the school has a indoor Pole vault,Long jump and throwing area are they aloud to be used?
Yes. You are allowed to practice anywhere the school district says you can practice.
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Old 05-09-18, 01:36 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple66 View Post
During the outdoor season if it is raining and the school has a indoor Pole vault,Long jump and throwing area are they aloud to be used?
If you are referring to competition, I don't know that it has ever been addressed. The times it was done for the State meet is because it rained practically the entire weekend and there just wasn't any alternative. I wasn't around, but I heard they did it quite reluctantly.
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Old 05-09-18, 05:32 PM
Purple66 Purple66 is offline
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I was referring to competition.

I have been to meets this spring where the PV/Discus were called off because of rain for the vault and mud for the discus.
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Old 05-09-18, 07:18 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple66 View Post
I was referring to competition.

I have been to meets this spring where the PV/Discus were called off because of rain for the vault and mud for the discus.
The problem with mud in the discus & shot rings is primarily due to the fact that when schools (including some colleges) install throwing pads, they think because they have a 10' x 10' concrete pad, they're good-to-go. NO. You need plenty of concrete around the throwing pad, or at least plenty of rock/gravel in order to allow for a non-muddy approach to the throwing pad prior to entering the ring. This is the done because of the lack of knowledge on the part of whoever is installing the facilities.

RULE-OF-THUMB: THE MORE CONCRETE, THE BETTER. AT LEAST 10-20 FEET AROUND THE BACK AND SIDES OF THE 10' X 10' PAD AS A MINIMUM!!!
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Old 05-10-18, 10:14 AM
Purple66 Purple66 is offline
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The meet I went to where the Discus was not held had to do with the area it lands. Throwing area was okay. Low spot where it lands will hold water for a while. Seems like they could fix the problem with doing one of two things. Building the area up or move it to a high area, which they have.
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Old 05-10-18, 09:58 PM
FossyWriter8 FossyWriter8 is offline
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The OHSAA delayed the pole vault in 2012, I believe, because of the rain. Officials discussed moving it indoors, but decided not to do that. Apparently, some of the coaches complained about moving it because a few athletes had already started competing before it was delayed and some of the coaches felt moving it would be too much of an advantage for the athletes who had not yet competed.
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Old 05-11-18, 06:47 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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It seems like at least one of the pole vault competitions at the State meet every year gets delayed for weather at some point.

I don't recall what year it was, my guess is 2008 or 2009, when they were still using one runway for all six events. That was the last year I remember serious consideration about moving it indoors. But, then the weather broke, and Upper Arlington brought their pit over and they used two runways to get all the vaulting done in time. They've used two runways ever since, and I don't recall any serious talks about moving indoors since we've gone to two runways.
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Old 05-11-18, 08:03 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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In 2010, the meet was delayed for about 45 minute during the D1 Women's Pole Vault. I saw the storm cell moving in on my phone and knew there'd be a delay. It was another 25 minutes or so after the end of the delay that the women's vault resumed as there was an agreed-to 2-vault re-warm-up that the ladies were given.
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Old 05-11-18, 11:49 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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That one I remember, but there was never serious consideration of moving it inside.
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Old 05-11-18, 12:58 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
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That one I remember, but there was never serious consideration of moving it inside.
Yes, that's because we all knew that it was a small storm cell and not a front that would last any length of time.
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Old 05-11-18, 09:47 PM
Purple66 Purple66 is offline
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Does anyone one know if they cam move it inside during the regular season?
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  #30  
Old 05-20-18, 07:13 AM
WhatsupDoc WhatsupDoc is offline
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I saw where the judge ruled in favor of the school. IMO is the right thing.
But I've I also saw where Hoover was either last or next to last in the League at the Boys and Girls track meet. It seems like over the last 4 or 5 years track and Cross Country at Hoover has been in a decline. Are kids just not going out for track?
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