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  #1  
Old 05-02-18, 01:45 PM
OVTC OVTC is offline
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Climbing Mt. Everest vs. Running a 4:00 minute mile

Sir Edmund Hillary was first recorded person to climb Mt. Everest in 1953 while Roger Bannister was the first person to break the 4:00 mile in 1954. Since then approximately 5,000 person have climbed Mt. Everest while only approximate 1,400 people have broken the four minute mile barrier. Does anyone know why that is?

Last edited by OVTC; 05-02-18 at 01:58 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-02-18, 01:58 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Running a sub 4 minute mile is an individual accomplishment that requires hundreds if not thousands of hours of training. Climbing Mt. Everest today is something of a joke. If you have the money and do a little training you can do it. You can actually hire a team of sherpas to carry you to the top. They have even installed ladders in the the most difficult places. True, a lot of people have died climing Everest, mostly from altitude sickness which wobbles your mind. And they die mostly on the way down, the euphoria of having reached the top leaves the climber and the altitude suckness takes over.
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Old 05-02-18, 02:14 PM
OVTC OVTC is offline
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The connection between the two is oxygen debt. The Kenyans are excelling in distance races because they live at high altitudes. In the human body, red blood cells carry oxygen to the body. The Kenyans have higher counts of red blood calls because they live at high altitudes and the body makes the adjustment by producing more red blood cells. Now evidently the higher number of people successfully climbing Mt. Everest is due to training to increase the number of red blood cells in their bodies. The question I'm posing is can this technology be applied to runners also.
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Old 05-03-18, 01:35 PM
blahblah4everything blahblah4everything is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVTC View Post
The connection between the two is oxygen debt. The Kenyans are excelling in distance races because they live at high altitudes. In the human body, red blood cells carry oxygen to the body. The Kenyans have higher counts of red blood calls because they live at high altitudes and the body makes the adjustment by producing more red blood cells. Now evidently the higher number of people successfully climbing Mt. Everest is due to training to increase the number of red blood cells in their bodies. The question I'm posing is can this technology be applied to runners also.
If technology is the answer, why have only 12 people walked on the moon? Why doesn't an apple taste like and orange
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Old 05-03-18, 02:04 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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You really believe men walked on the moon?
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Old 05-03-18, 03:57 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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...The Kenyans are excelling in distance races because they live at high altitudes...
And because they dope like crazy.
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Old 05-03-18, 08:29 PM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Diamox is your friend.
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Old 05-03-18, 09:37 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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You really believe men walked on the moon?
I hope you're really not serious with that statement!
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  #9  
Old 05-03-18, 10:35 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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You really believe men walked on the moon?
Uh Oh, your not one of those people are you?
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  #10  
Old 05-03-18, 11:44 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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There was an interview done with a mountain climber by Terry Gross on WVXU in which the mountain climber claimed that the increase in climbers who have made it to the top of Mt. Everest was due to training with something called a low oxygen tent. When the human body is exposed to low oxygen air, it responds by making new red blood cells to increase oxygen delivery. More red blood cells in your body means more oxygen to your muscles when you need it, resulting in increased speed, endurance, and power. You reap the benefits regardless of whether you are performing at sea level or at high altitude. Those who have tried it talk about how their hematocrit increased by 10-20% The higher your hematocrit, the more oxygen can be delivered per volume of blood. Hematocrit is a blood test that measures how much of a person's blood is made up of red blood cells. This measurement depends on the number of and size of the red blood cells.

Here is the question that has been raised about this type of training. Is simulated altitude taining legal in sports and is it fair and ethical?
​Altitude simulation is legal in all sports. The World Anti-Doping Agency has examined the issue and declared altitude training legal, reasoning that altitude training levels the playing field for athletes not able to live or train in elevated locations.

Last edited by Lancermania; 05-04-18 at 12:44 AM..
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Old 05-04-18, 08:46 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Here is the question that has been raised about this type of training. Is simulated altitude taining legal in sports and is it fair and ethical?
​Altitude simulation is legal in all sports. The World Anti-Doping Agency has examined the issue and declared altitude training legal, reasoning that altitude training levels the playing field for athletes not able to live or train in elevated locations.
Lancer, yes, simulated altitude training is legal in sports and it has been declared to be legal by WADA. The ethics of it are rather complex but IMHO, at the level that most of it is occurring (i.e., high level athletes), it is ethical. The majority of the athletes that would be using this training technique are competing against athletes that would also be using it. It is used most often in cycling, a sport that is known to be rife with questionable ethics and cheating.

I find the physiology of all of this to be fascinating and if I had more time, I would write more about it all. The occurrences of cerebral and pulmonary edema and how pharmacology is utilized in these situations at high altitude - nifedipine for pulmonary edema, what diamox does, steroids, etc. It's all fascinating stuff.
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Old 05-04-18, 01:46 PM
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Northern Arizona has won back to back NCAA Cross Country national titles. They're doing it with local talent too. Two of their top four runners grew up in Arizona and went to Arizona high schools. Flagstaff is around 7,000 feet elevation. Coach Smith took the team for six weeks to live at a much higher altitude. Flagstaff is located adjacent to Mount Elden, just south of the San Francisco Peaks, the highest mountain range in the state of Arizona. Humphreys Peak, the highest point in Arizona at 12,633 feet (3,851 m), is located about 10 miles (16 km) north of Flagstaff in Kachina Peaks Wilderness. This is what high elevation training can do for you. Here is a news flash about their top guys running track this spring.

STANFORD, Calif. - Tyler Day recorded the best time in the country in the men's 5000-meter event and Matt Baxter added the third-best mark in the NCAA in the 10,000-meter as the Northern Arizona University track and field program competed at Stanford University's Payton Jordan Invitational on Thursday, May 3.

Day posted a time of 28:04.44 to finish fifth overall and as the top collegiate athlete in the 10,000-meter invitational race. In the same section of the event, Matt Baxter posted a new personal best of 28:10.05 to finish eighth. The time slots as the third-best mark in the nation this season

Here are Tyler Day's best times at Mesquite high school in Arizona: School record holder for 1600m (4:20.98) and 3200m (9:28.02)

Last edited by Lancermania; 05-04-18 at 02:56 PM..
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  #13  
Old 05-06-18, 11:08 AM
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The mountain climber who Terry Gross interviewed on WVXU tv only talked about how people were using the stimulated high atltitude training in a tent to successfully prepare for climbing Mt. Everest. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this type of training in a tent for runners?. Because Horter's times have dropped so dramaticly, I asked Horter's coach about it. He said he was aware of the training and had heard about it, but he was not using it with Dustin. Anyone ever hear of Ryan Hall. On April 18, 2011, Hall ran the fastest marathon ever by an American, 2:04:58, to finish fourth. Kenya's Geoffrey Mutai ran 57 seconds under the recognized world record at the time, in winning in 2:03:02, and credited Hall with setting - and maintaining - a fast early pace. Hall has testified he was using simulated high altitude training at the time.

Last edited by Lancermania; 05-06-18 at 11:37 AM..
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  #14  
Old 05-06-18, 12:16 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
The mountain climber who Terry Gross interviewed on WVXU tv only talked about how people were using the stimulated high atltitude training in a tent to successfully prepare for climbing Mt. Everest. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this type of training in a tent for runners?. Because Horter's times have dropped so dramaticly, I asked Horter's coach about it. He said he was aware of the training and had heard about it, but he was not using it with Dustin. Anyone ever hear of Ryan Hall. On April 18, 2011, Hall ran the fastest marathon ever by an American, 2:04:58, to finish fourth. Kenya's Geoffrey Mutai ran 57 seconds under the recognized world record at the time, in winning in 2:03:02, and credited Hall with setting - and maintaining - a fast early pace. Hall has testified he was using simulated high altitude training at the time.
I'm too lazy to look for any studies, but I know some endurance athletes, namely pro cyclists, have been using altitude tents for at least a decade. Of course pro cycling has always been a rather dirty sport, and it's always possible that the use of altitude tents is bogus, and their usage is simply a way to mask other activities.
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Old 05-06-18, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I'm too lazy to look for any studies, but I know some endurance athletes, namely pro cyclists, have been using altitude tents for at least a decade. Of course pro cycling has always been a rather dirty sport, and it's always possible that the use of altitude tents is bogus, and their usage is simply a way to mask other activities.
I have read that using a low oxygen tent can mask doping which may be why Armstrong wasn't caught for years.
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Old 05-06-18, 02:21 PM
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I have read that using a low oxygen tent can mask doping which may be why Armstrong wasn't caught for years.
Armstrong had far more help than that. He was always a step ahead of the testers. Also, I don't believe he was tested nearly as often as he claimed.
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