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  #1  
Old 04-30-18, 03:26 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Youth tackle football participation linked to earlier onset of cognitive and emotiona

Public Release:

(Boston)--Starting to play tackle football before age 12 could lead to earlier onset of cognitive and emotional symptoms among athletes who were diagnosed with CTE and other brain diseases postmortem, according to a new study.

The findings, from researchers at VA Boston Healthcare System (VABHS) and Boston University (BU) School of Medicine, found that among 211 football players who were diagnosed with the neurodegenerative disease CTE after death, those who began tackle football before age 12 had an earlier onset of cognitive, behavior, and mood symptoms by an average of 13 years.

Every one year younger that the individuals began to play tackle football predicted earlier onset of cognitive problems by 2.4 years and behavioral and mood problems by 2.5 years. This study included 246 deceased football players who were part of the UNITE (Understanding Neurologic Injury and Traumatic Encephalopathy) study and who had donated their brains for neuropathological examination to the VA-BU-CLF (Concussion Legacy Foundation) Brain Bank. Of those 246, 211 were diagnosed with CTE (with several having evidence of additional brain diseases, such as Alzheimer's) and 35 had no evidence of CTE, though several had evidence of other neuropathology. Of the 211 with CTE, 76 were amateur football players and 135 played at the professional level.

"Youth exposure to repetitive head impacts in tackle football may reduce one's resiliency to brain diseases later in life, including, but not limited to CTE," said corresponding author Ann McKee, MD, chief of Neuropathology at Boston VA Healthcare System, and Director of BU's CTE Center. "It makes common sense that children, whose brains are rapidly developing, should not be hitting their heads hundreds of times per season."

It is noteworthy that, although age of first exposure to tackle football was associated with early onset of cognitive and emotional problems, it was not associated with worse overall severity of CTE pathology, Alzheimer's disease pathology or other pathology. In addition, earlier symptom onset was not restricted to those diagnosed with CTE. The relationship was similar for the former football players without CTE who had cognitive or behavioral and mood changes that may have been related to other diseases.

"Younger age of first exposure to tackle football appears to increase vulnerability to the effects of CTE and other brain diseases or conditions. That is, it influences when cognitive, behavioral, and mood symptoms begin. It is comparable to research showing that children exposed to neurotoxins (e.g., lead) during critical periods of neurodevelopment can have earlier onset and more severe long-term neurological effects. While participation in sports has important health and social benefits, it is important to consider contact and collision sports separately and balance those benefits against potential later life neurological risks," said Michael Alosco, PhD, an assistant professor of Neurology at BU School of Medicine and an investigator at the BU Alzheimer's Disease Center and the BU CTE Center.

The study extends research from the BU CTE Center that previously linked youth tackle football with worse later-life cognitive, emotional, and behavioral disturbances in living former amateur and professional tackle football players, as well as changes in brain structures (determined by MRI scans) in former NFL players.

Data were collected by conducting telephone interviews with family members and/or friends to determine the absence or presence, and age of onset, of cognitive, behavior and mood symptoms. The interviewers did not know the neuropathological findings and the neuropathologists did not know the individuals' histories.

Although this study supports the idea that there may be long-term consequences associated with experiencing repeated hits to the head during childhood, the researchers stress that it is unclear if their findings generalize to the broader tackle football population and that much more research, particularly prospective longitudinal studies, is needed to understand the association between youth football and long-term consequences. The findings appear online in the journal Annals of Neurology.

###

Funding for this study was provided by the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (1U01NS086659-01, U01NS093334, R01NS078337, R56NS078337), Department of Defense (W81XWH-13-2-0064), Department of Veterans Affairs, the Veterans Affairs Biorepository (CSP 501), the National Institute of Aging Boston University Alzheimer's Disease Center (P30AG13846; supplement 0572063345-5), Department of Defense Peer Reviewed Alzheimer's Research Program (DoD- PRARP #13267017), the National Institute of Aging Boston University Framingham Heart Study (R01AG1649), the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment and the Concussion Legacy Foundation. This work was also supported by unrestricted gifts from the Andlinger Foundation, the WWE and the NFL. Michael L. Alosco is supported by the National Institutes of Health under grant number F32NS096803 and a Pilot Grant from the Boston University Alzheimer's Disease Center (AG013846).
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  #2  
Old 05-01-18, 01:00 PM
fussandfeathers fussandfeathers is offline
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I think CTE is a big problem that football needs to deal with. But my only concern here is the samples for these studies. The brains that are being examined are most certainly going to have evidence of CTE because they already think they do...hence their participation in many of these studies. Think about the thousands and thousands of men who played football and stopped after high school or college that are not being examined. The samples used are so specific to the condition of CTE that we don't really know, in my opinion, the actual impact.

See the article linked here regarding causation and the samples used for many of these studies. Again, CTE is real. Football should face it. But it's hard to believe that it is the epidemic that many make it out to be.

http://m.startribune.com/does-cte-ca...ection=opinion
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Old 05-01-18, 04:15 PM
shoprat2 shoprat2 is offline
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Any high school program should really try to get ahead of this issue. No full contact until high school. Change your youth and middle school to flag. This is already inplace at several districts around the state including districts with successful high school programs. If football does not make some changes on their own someone might do it for them. It has happened before.
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Old 05-01-18, 07:19 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by fussandfeathers View Post
I think CTE is a big problem that football needs to deal with. But my only concern here is the samples for these studies. The brains that are being examined are most certainly going to have evidence of CTE because they already think they do...hence their participation in many of these studies. Think about the thousands and thousands of men who played football and stopped after high school or college that are not being examined. The samples used are so specific to the condition of CTE that we don't really know, in my opinion, the actual impact.

See the article linked here regarding causation and the samples used for many of these studies. Again, CTE is real. Football should face it. But it's hard to believe that it is the epidemic that many make it out to be.

http://m.startribune.com/does-cte-ca...ection=opinion
Unfortunately, like many things, emotion will rule the day. So despite some really smart people saying, "slow down", people have already decided that playing football has to bad for you. Great article, thanks for posting.
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  #5  
Old 05-01-18, 07:29 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I know that football equipment is lighter and stronger today compared to years past. I also know that football players are willing to forego certain equipment to gain an edge. It's time the NFL and other leagues start to slow down the players' speed in the game. Increase the weight for the players. Stop making/authorizing equipment that makes the players faster.

I always think of pictures of the giant shoulder pads that Herschel Walker wore and compare it to the tiny (nearly weightless) shoulder pads that players today are wearing. It's time for the NFL to take the big step and move toward drastic changes.

Like Hammerdrill alluded to, their are two views of football right now; it needs to be safer or stop playing it altogether. Unfortunately, the stop playing crowd is winning the battle.
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  #6  
Old 05-01-18, 08:03 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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...and with each of these stories yet another group of parents decides Junior will never play football. The system will decay from the bottom up.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-18, 08:10 PM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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yet kids ride bikes, skateboards, 4 wheelers, motorcycles....

have a greater chance of being seriously injured in a car accident than anything else

they play soccer without head gear

maybe numbers do dip, relatively speaking maybe they don't - football remains the second most attended team sport for males....behind softball (due to all the adult males playing rec leagues - stats came from a sports illustrated article)
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Old 05-02-18, 06:37 AM
LM Panthers LM Panthers is offline
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Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
yet kids ride bikes, skateboards, 4 wheelers, motorcycles....

have a greater chance of being seriously injured in a car accident than anything else

they play soccer without head gear

maybe numbers do dip, relatively speaking maybe they don't - football remains the second most attended team sport for males....behind softball (due to all the adult males playing rec leagues - stats came from a sports illustrated article)
Exactly right, when I got my kids a trampoline and a 4 wheeler people freaked out. It's called let them live and be a kid. Also, educate them on safety. I've told people for years about the new rules of barely tackle and or no contact in practice is getting more kids hurt. They go into games not knowing how to tackle properly and the first thing they do is lower their heads. These same people have never played football and have watched the concussion movie with Will Smith, then think they know everything. These studies are crazy, like someone said test everyone that has ever played football before.
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Old 05-02-18, 08:02 AM
Philos_Finest Philos_Finest is offline
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Football_101,

You're right they do play soccer without headgear. But, they do offer it. Also, USSF has outlawed intentional heading of the ball until age 11.

I'm sure this has been asked but has there been any studies like this with Rugby? or other heavy-contact sports?
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Old 05-02-18, 08:41 AM
FootballFan1795 FootballFan1795 is offline
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Originally Posted by Philos_Finest View Post
Football_101,

You're right they do play soccer without headgear. But, they do offer it. Also, USSF has outlawed intentional heading of the ball until age 11.

I'm sure this has been asked but has there been any studies like this with Rugby? or other heavy-contact sports?
A little off-topic, but there was an interesting University of Birmingham study being conducted this past rugby season to see if a device could be developed that could instantly diagnose a concussion during a match and could be used across sports (i.e. football, soccer, hockey, etc.).

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/la...jor-study.aspx
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Old 05-02-18, 11:23 AM
Rusty Anchor Rusty Anchor is offline
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Anyway that we can weed out the mentally weak at an early age, I am all on board. There is no place for those people in football.
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Old 05-02-18, 01:16 PM
Bigscarletandgrey Bigscarletandgrey is offline
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Youth football should go away. And stop comparing it to using your head in soccer. It's a STUPID argument. Can you get a concussion? Yep, but no where near the damage done in football.
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Old 05-02-18, 01:39 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by LM Panthers View Post
These studies are crazy, like someone said test everyone that has ever played football before.
What's crazy about these studies?
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Old 05-02-18, 02:34 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
...and with each of these stories yet another group of parents decides Junior will never play football. The system will decay from the bottom up.
And then you'll see the lawsuits against the schools and school systems... Then you'll see School Boards cancelling the sport because it's an insurance risk... You don't need a crystal ball to see what is heading down the track here...
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Old 05-02-18, 02:36 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
What's crazy about these studies?
It was bad science at best. I don't see how it vetted, let alone anyone could be so unprofessional to say

Quote:
Although this study supports the idea that there may be long-term consequences associated with experiencing repeated hits to the head during childhood

That was someone begging for the next funding. All that was necessary was the qualifiers on the research (data collection really) that followed the statement.

They didn't study "repeated hits to the head." They didn't study kids. The didn't study whether kids who play football at a young age are more likely to play football longer, increasing exposure to an activity that they PRESUME to have CTE consequences.

It's not even close to credible research. I don't have a dog in the "football vs. CTE" fight. If football went away because of conclusive evidence, eh. If they find conclusive evidense there is NO connection, eh. But bad research? That should be everyone's concern.
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Old 05-02-18, 04:54 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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It was bad science at best. I don't see how it vetted, let alone anyone could be so unprofessional to say
So where is the science that refutes the findings?
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Old 05-02-18, 08:20 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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So where is the science that refutes the findings?
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Old 05-02-18, 08:45 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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So the NFL, NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA, and the NFHS has all been duped by "bad science"?
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Old 05-02-18, 09:35 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Any high school program should really try to get ahead of this issue. No full contact until high school. Change your youth and middle school to flag. This is already inplace at several districts around the state including districts with successful high school programs. If football does not make some changes on their own someone might do it for them. It has happened before.
Great post. Big time football guy, even been known to coach. Entire family played/plays at a high level and I do not like the way we do youth football. Young kids with undeveloped necks who believe you lead with your head or do it naturally because they are wearing a helmet.

Yappi, many people have talked about taking the helmet away from the game. They cite rugby. Once the helmet evolved from leather to hardened plastic it has been utilized as a weapon. Take it away and it forces you to tackle with shoulders and wrap.

eastisbest is spot on. This is a poor study. Of the 246 who donated their brains how many of them were daredevils growing up? Usually the kid who was really good at football was also the one who would dive off a 30 ft. cliff into a quarry on a dare and ride a dirt bike recklessly. Lots to factor in an especially small sample group.

Football has always been a tough physical sport which is why I respect some of those leaving the game before their days playing are over in the name of their health. With that said, people know what they are getting into and get compensated for it. Free college and millions of dollars. These guys are not coal miners.

Ban youth tackle football and much would be solved and the sport would actually grow. So many youth programs have coaches that never played past 6th grade themselves and cannot nor understand the emphasis of teaching proper tackling technique. Sorry, but we do not let a 5'8" gut with an NFL jersey and a towel over his shoulder be a lifeguard without a certification so why do we allow him to coach pee-wee football? The kid who grew faster than everyone, the same kid who will never play a down of HS football gets 30 pitch tosses a game with some reverses to the second fastest kid drawn up on a napkin. Let kids play flag with 4 wide and chuck the ball around to develop skill. End tackle pee-wee football.
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Old 05-03-18, 05:33 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
So the NFL, NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA, and the NFHS has all been duped by "bad science"?

Did I refer to ANYTHING other than the methodology of the specific "research" mentioned in the opening post?

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Old 05-03-18, 05:47 AM
foreword foreword is offline
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"So many youth programs have coaches that never played past 6th grade themselves and cannot nor understand the emphasis of teaching proper tackling technique."

That's why there are organizations like USA Football and such. Make sure your kids play for a organization that makes it's coaches be certified to coach.
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Old 05-03-18, 06:12 AM
Wahoo Sam Wahoo Sam is offline
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Originally Posted by shoprat2 View Post
Any high school program should really try to get ahead of this issue. No full contact until high school. Change your youth and middle school to flag. This is already inplace at several districts around the state including districts with successful high school programs. If football does not make some changes on their own someone might do it for them. It has happened before.
I don't know the answers but the trend toward not playing or practicing tackling is causing the problem of poor tackling technique.
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Old 05-03-18, 06:12 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Did I refer to ANYTHING other than the methodology of the specific "research" mentioned in the opening post?

Got it....

Because you don't like it, all the others that have analyzed this (and more, as changes aren't being made based on this study).....

.....have been duped.....


Last edited by AllSports12; 05-03-18 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 05-03-18, 06:43 AM
VVTommyBoy VVTommyBoy is offline
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ALLSPORTS 12, I think that works both ways. People come onto a high school football forum and expect to convince people that like high school football that it should be done away with because "they" have decided what is best for everyone.

If a kid doesn't want to play or his parents won't allow it then find another option.

I think some suggestions are worth discussing but, the last time I watched kids under 12 playing there was a weight limit and it was more equipment and padding than kid. Anyway, I remember trying touch on the kickoffs and tackle after that. After I just got touched to stop the kickoff return, I forgot about the tackling part and really got clocked on the first play from scrimmage. That experiment was quickly forgotten.

Certify the coaches, make sure you have proper equipment and are taught proper technique. I didn't read the study. How old were the subjects? When did they play? What did they play? What kind of life did they have after football and for how long?

I'm sure there were coaches in the last 100 years that probably thought a good neck exercise would be to hit your head against a wall.

Personally I think the NFL has gone down hill with all of the changes and is boring to me but, I still love high school and college.
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Old 05-03-18, 07:13 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by VVTommyBoy View Post
ALLSPORTS 12, I think that works both ways. People come onto a high school football forum and expect to convince people that like high school football that it should be done away with because "they" have decided what is best for everyone.
And those people who think that way are no better than those who come on here and refute that point of view by simply saying "they're wrong" or "the wussifying of America"....

I'll go out on a limb and assume (rarely do I do this) that nobody on this page has been privy to a national rules committee meeting or the information presented in those meetings, in any sport, that included a presentation by a research body centered on a safety related matter. Whether it be a study and it's findings about ACL injury rates and differences between male and female athletes, Dr. James Andrews and a presentation about pitching injuries, or the current focus in athletics, concussions, you have no idea about what data was presented and reviewed by these sport commissions. These are years in the making and they do not rely or make decisions off one study or finding.......

To dismiss the actions by the rules committees, (multiple committees at that) based on "I don't like it or believe it" attitudes is silly.... Just as those who endorse those actions just because they don't like the sport or don't understand that there are inherent risks in specific sports are silly....

That's my point here
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Old 05-03-18, 07:15 AM
bop bop is offline
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I have never been a fan of youth tackle football. In most communities there are no checks and balances in place to ensure it is about the kids. Often these teams are coached by men who do not have the qualities of a good coach. If they did, they would be coaching for the local school district. It subjects kids to behavior that borders on abuse by some of these men, burns kids out early and apparently also is affecting their brains.
Ban youth tackle football, start them in 7th grade.
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Old 05-03-18, 07:47 AM
VVTommyBoy VVTommyBoy is offline
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I don't have a problem with starting tackle football with junior high. I don't have a problem with not throwing a curveball until the 7th grade.

I do wonder if a concussion is always helmet-to-helmet over if bouncing your head off the ground can't figure into it, as well. Linemen seem to have contact on every play but, how many of them get concussions? ( Or, do we just fuss if it is a skill player? ).

I could see umpires and catchers getting concussions more than a first baseman but, people can run into each other. Anyway, there was a player on WSU basketball that had to quit about 5 years ago from concussions. There are different degrees and this guy finally quit after about the 6th or 7th.

Think during the recent draft, I heard a talking head say the current stats show more concussions in soccer than football. If that is true is it because of boys and girls playing at younger ages?

Also a big fan of playing multiple sports since it helps with development of different muscles.
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Old 05-03-18, 08:01 AM
VVTommyBoy VVTommyBoy is offline
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Another thing that I noticed is that varsity football can be top heavy with medical attention on Friday nights. I'd like to know someone can be there for JV and Jr High, too. While we have a couple of emergency squads on a Friday night, a kid hurt in a soccer game on Thursday has to wait for a squad ( and if only volunteers are on-call then that takes extra time, too ).
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Old 05-03-18, 09:02 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Did I refer to ANYTHING other than the methodology of the specific "research" mentioned in the opening post?

I certainly don't want to put words into your mouth, but I'd agree that the research method leaves a lot to be desired. They took a SMALL sample of 211 players and chose one of 1,000 factors (did the person play youth football) into account and tried to extrapolate that information across an entire population. I think any researcher would tell you this is not the "best" method. It tells you something, but it certainly doesn't tell you as much as a larger sample of athletes, with the research starting at the youth level and following them through their careers, whether that be in athletics or otherwise. However, the problem is those types of studies take years (decades) to complete. And we can't wait that long when youth safety is at issue. To me, this is why the NFL should be condemned; because they had CTE information available and they suppressed it. Had they taken the lead and started serious research into it this early on, then we would have more legitimate answers to many of the questions we are asking today. So the science is racing to catch up with the problem. While we await the more complete studies, we are left to rely on these less formal studies. Again, these studies are valid and they give us some answers, but they can also be questioned because of the limited scope of the studies.
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Old 05-03-18, 09:04 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by foreword View Post
"So many youth programs have coaches that never played past 6th grade themselves and cannot nor understand the emphasis of teaching proper tackling technique."

That's why there are organizations like USA Football and such. Make sure your kids play for a organization that makes it's coaches be certified to coach.
I wish they were everywhere but they are not. Make your way over to a Mid-City League game in Toledo. The gambling and the fighting is enough entertainment.

In all honesty, why risk it? Flag football until 14.
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