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  #1  
Old 04-20-18, 05:36 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Chagrin Valley Conference (CVC) adds teams, shifts alignment

Per reporting from John Kampf of the News-Herald, the CVC is going to be adding six new teams and going to three divisions for football starting with the 2019-20 season.

The two division alignment at eight teams each has one more season, with 2018-19 being the first year of Hawken and Wickliffe flipping places in football. The current two division alignment was facing significant battle with teams towards the bottom of the upper division all wishing to get out of the upper division.

The upper division in football (Chagrin):
Ashtabula Lakeside, Chagrin Falls, Perry (Lake County), Geneva, Painesville Harvey, West Geuaga, Orange, Ashtabula Edgewood

The middle division (Valley):
Beachwood, Berkshire, Wickliffe, Grand Valley, Kirtland, Cardinal, and Hawken

The lower division (Metro):
Cuyahoga Hts, Independence, Richmond Hts, Fairport, Trinity, Brooklyn, and Lutheran West

The Chagrin teams have no crossovers in football. The Valley and Metro teams will play one rival in a crossover. The result is all 22 teams have weeks 4-10 of their schedules filled each year.

New to the conference are Ashtabula Lakeside, Ashtabula Edgewood, Grand Valley, Trinity, Brooklyn, and Lutheran West

For Ashtaubla Lakeside and Ashtabula Edgewood they get out of a Mahoning/Trumbull County based league and at least have geographically close-ish games with each other, Harvey, Perry, and Geneva. I think Lakeside was battling competitive issues as well in their league, not sure if this new league helps that, but it's better

Grand Valley moves from the NAC where they were the biggest school by far into an alignment where they are middle of the road. They have played some of their new league rivals as non-league games in the recent past. The last three years in the NAC they were undefeated in league play.

As far as Brooklyn and Lutheran West go, they were without a home after being abandoned by the Patriot Athletic. Outside of the trip to Fairport this is a terrific geography for them. In terms of Trinity, the restructuring of the NCL seemed to leave them with some long distances for games, along with some issues with consistently winning; it's a great league travel wise.

From an existing team perspective, the issues for Beachwood, Berkshire, Wickliffe, and Hawken about two of them having to be part of the upper division no longer exist; they're with each other. The only existing team IMO unhappy for football is Fairport, as they're traveling a decent distance for their 3 or 4 league road games.

The other sports will have different alignments, i.e. basketball is going to have four divisions of 5 or 6 teams each. Those happen to be rather geographically compact.
*Lake: Perry, Lakeside, Edgewood, Geneva, Painesville Harvey
*Chagrin: Chagrin, Beachwood, West G, Orange, Hawken
*Metro: Cuyahoga Hts, Independence, Lutheran West, Brooklyn, Trinity, Richmond Hts
*Valley: Berkshire, Cardinal, Kirtland, Grand Valley, Fairport, Wickliffe

I have no idea if there's going to be crossover obligation in for example basketball, though normally there isn't because teams generally can fill a basketball schedule easier than a football schedule.
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Old 04-20-18, 09:25 PM
Mathews99 Mathews99 is offline
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I am suprised Grand Valley moved without Pymatuning Valley, last I heard the Valley's would not split, and would move to a league together...
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Old 04-20-18, 10:39 PM
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What gets me excited about this move is all the dominos that could fall from this.

First lets start with the AAC (All-American Conference) who is set lose a whole bunch to a new league (Northeast 8). But will still have 1 division left over after that realignment. They will now have 7 teams (since Edgewood just joined the CVC) Newton Falls, Champion, Campbell, LaBrae, Liberty, Brookfield & Crestview. So that leaves an open spot and I think Warren JFK would love to join these other 7. It would give them a league that is much closer to them unlike the revolving door that is Small school division in the North Coast League.

Which brings me to the North Coast League. What do they do now that they lose Trinity? They seem to add and lose a team all the time. So if they want to keep that division around I think they go after someone like Lutheran East. Maybe not the ideal fit but its really the only team left that they could take.

Next up...Fairview. Their former league mates (Brooklyn & Lutheran West) just found a home in the CVC. So what do they do? My best guess is the Great Lakes Conference. Which is kinda a hodgepodge league anyway so they would fit right in. Since it seems Medina Buckeye is set on trying to join the Ohio Cardinal Conference instead of the Great Lakes Conference this bodes well for Fairview to the GLC.

Next up the NAC. Losing Grand Valley puts them in an odd situation of having 5 teams. I expect them to invite Ashtabula St John who used to be in a league with these current teams.

Lastly back to the CVC. Will they stick with the 7 team divisions? Obviously there is room to expand by 2 more. So if they ever reach the point they want to add more teams I think teams like Gilmour or maybe even VASJ could be on their radar. Like I said earlier the North Coast small division is really close to losing its team based the distance they are apart.

Can't wait to see what takes place!
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Old 04-21-18, 06:23 AM
Lex Luger Lex Luger is offline
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CVC upper got rid of wickliffe and beachwood and replaced them with Ashtabula lakeside and Ashtabula Edgewood. UGLY UGLY Football. Especially to have to drive that far. But what choice did they have. CVC schools better schedule better non-conference games if they want to get points to make playoffs.
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Old 04-21-18, 07:01 AM
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The Ashtabula Star Beacon is reporting Edgewood will be in the Lake Division (Top tier) for most sports, but football. Seems like some clarifying info is needed.

"Edgewood will be placed in the Lake Division, consisting of teams of Perry, Lakeside, Geneva and Harvey for most sports with the exception of football. The football tier will consist of the above mentioned schools, as well as West Geauga, Orange and Chagrin Falls."

http://www.starbeacon.com/sports/loc...8dd127bb3.html

The expansion is certainly interesting. I think most of the schools accepted were expected to apply. I was surprised by Grand Valley and Trinity. Grand Valley left the CVC before due to travel concerns and wanting to build rivalries with schools closer/more similar to them. Reading the Star Beacon article, it seems like Grand Valley outgrew the NAC across the board (enrollment, competition, and sports they offer). I'm a big fan of the CVC and wish it well. But, I'm afraid they will have too many schools to keep everyone happy. This has historically been a problem with other leagues this large in Northeast Ohio (i.e. ACC and the now defunct Northeast Ohio Conference). Although Lakeside fits the bill for the Chagrin/Lake competitively (or may actually struggle to compete in some sports), they are twice the size of some of the schools. So, if their programs change too quickly they may be forced out as Kenston and Aurora were. I guess it's a better temporary option for them if anything than the ACC.

Last edited by BlackandGold; 04-21-18 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 04-21-18, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dhs22p View Post
What gets me excited about this move is all the dominos that could fall from this.

First lets start with the AAC (All-American Conference) who is set lose a whole bunch to a new league (Northeast 8). But will still have 1 division left over after that realignment. They will now have 7 teams (since Edgewood just joined the CVC) Newton Falls, Champion, Campbell, LaBrae, Liberty, Brookfield & Crestview. So that leaves an open spot and I think Warren JFK would love to join these other 7. It would give them a league that is much closer to them unlike the revolving door that is Small school division in the North Coast League.

Which brings me to the North Coast League. What do they do now that they lose Trinity? They seem to add and lose a team all the time. So if they want to keep that division around I think they go after someone like Lutheran East. Maybe not the ideal fit but its really the only team left that they could take.

Next up...Fairview. Their former league mates (Brooklyn & Lutheran West) just found a home in the CVC. So what do they do? My best guess is the Great Lakes Conference. Which is kinda a hodgepodge league anyway so they would fit right in. Since it seems Medina Buckeye is set on trying to join the Ohio Cardinal Conference instead of the Great Lakes Conference this bodes well for Fairview to the GLC.

Next up the NAC. Losing Grand Valley puts them in an odd situation of having 5 teams. I expect them to invite Ashtabula St John who used to be in a league with these current teams.

Lastly back to the CVC. Will they stick with the 7 team divisions? Obviously there is room to expand by 2 more. So if they ever reach the point they want to add more teams I think teams like Gilmour or maybe even VASJ could be on their radar. Like I said earlier the North Coast small division is really close to losing its team based the distance they are apart.

Can't wait to see what takes place!
Is Windham is going to look at the PTC with Grand Valley leaving
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Old 04-21-18, 08:01 AM
dhs22p dhs22p is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackandGold View Post
The Ashtabula Star Beacon is reporting Edgewood will be in the Lake Division (Top tier) for most sports, but football. Seems like some clarifying info is needed.

"Edgewood will be placed in the Lake Division, consisting of teams of Perry, Lakeside, Geneva and Harvey for most sports with the exception of football. The football tier will consist of the above mentioned schools, as well as West Geauga, Orange and Chagrin Falls."
Actually if you read it carefully you will see that they will be in the Chagrin Division for football. The Lake Division seems to only exist in every sport except football.
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Old 04-21-18, 08:38 AM
bmss17 bmss17 is offline
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Chagrin Valley Conference (CVC) adds teams, shifts alignment

This is a really, really interesting expansion. It seems that the new teams to the expansion got a much better deal than the existing teams.

In my opinion, Fairport definitely got the short end of the stick, especially when it comes to football. I know it’s mostly Friday nights, but to be grouped with a bunch of west side schools is just so peculiar. There are only three existing teams that I think really benefit from these additions: Cuyahoga Heights, Independence, and that Wickliffe/Hawken “8th team in the Chagrin division” split. You could make the argument it benefits Berkshire/Cardinal too. I think it’s a wash for Perry; better geographically, but I feel they’re losing some of those rivalries they’ve really developed in the CVC.

In my opinion, it seems like you have a lot of “leagues within a league” with this new format: the west side league, the Eastern Lake/Ashtabula league, and then some of the traditional CVC members. I’m almost wondering if they would be better off looking for two additional teams and making it an even 24. I’m super curious who the other 8 teams were who applied but denied admission.


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Old 04-21-18, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dhs22p View Post
Actually if you read it carefully you will see that they will be in the Chagrin Division for football. The Lake Division seems to only exist in every sport except football.
Got it! Thanks!
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Old 04-21-18, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bmss17 View Post
This is a really, really interesting expansion. It seems that the new teams to the expansion got a much better deal than the existing teams.

In my opinion, Fairport definitely got the short end of the stick, especially when it comes to football. I know it’s mostly Friday nights, but to be grouped with a bunch of west side schools is just so peculiar. There are only three existing teams that I think really benefit from these additions: Cuyahoga Heights, Independence, and that Wickliffe/Hawken “8th team in the Chagrin division” split. You could make the argument it benefits Berkshire/Cardinal too. I think it’s a wash for Perry; better geographically, but I feel they’re losing some of those rivalries they’ve really developed in the CVC.

In my opinion, it seems like you have a lot of “leagues within a league” with this new format: the west side league, the Eastern Lake/Ashtabula league, and then some of the traditional CVC members. I’m almost wondering if they would be better off looking for two additional teams and making it an even 24. I’m super curious who the other 8 teams were who applied but denied admission.


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I agree with a lot of your points. I'm confused by the alignment of the Valley and Metro divisions for football. Mostly, I'm not sure why Cuyahoga Heights, Kirtland, and Independence are not in the same division. Maybe because of geography? Because the divisions are certainly not aligned based on enrollment. I get Fairport placed with most of the schools in the Metro will allow for easier competition. It appears the alignment is a mixture of competitive balance and geography. The crossover games will be interesting.

Last edited by BlackandGold; 04-21-18 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 04-21-18, 09:30 AM
itzme itzme is offline
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Originally Posted by dhs22p View Post
What gets me excited about this move is all the dominos that could fall from this.

First lets start with the AAC (All-American Conference) who is set lose a whole bunch to a new league (Northeast 8). But will still have 1 division left over after that realignment. They will now have 7 teams (since Edgewood just joined the CVC) Newton Falls, Champion, Campbell, LaBrae, Liberty, Brookfield & Crestview. So that leaves an open spot and I think Warren JFK would love to join these other 7. It would give them a league that is much closer to them unlike the revolving door that is Small school division in the North Coast League.
JFK would love to join those other 7 but the majority wouldn't love for them to join. They already play LaBrae, Crestview, and Champion. They scrimmage Campbell. Now that Edgewood has moved on, I'd look for the remaining schools to try to steal Jefferson away from their new conference.
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Old 04-21-18, 11:10 AM
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JFK would love to join those other 7 but the majority wouldn't love for them to join. They already play LaBrae, Crestview, and Champion. They scrimmage Campbell. Now that Edgewood has moved on, I'd look for the remaining schools to try to steal Jefferson away from their new conference.
I was thinking the same about Jefferson. Does adding Edgewood also open a door for the possibility of Conneaut? They have an average drive of an hour in PA. As another poster mentioned, it's many different leagues in one big one.

Last edited by BlackandGold; 04-21-18 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 04-21-18, 11:49 AM
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I was thinking the same about Jefferson. Does adding Edgewood also open a door for the possibility of Conneaut? They have an average drive of an hour in PA. As another poster mentioned, it's many different leagues in one big one.
That could be possible. Conneaut is about the same distance from all of those schools as Edgewood was. Jefferson just came to mind first because they were a part of the old AAC setup that branched off and shuffled around.
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Old 04-21-18, 12:53 PM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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JFK would love to join those other 7 but the majority wouldn't love for them to join. They already play LaBrae, Crestview, and Champion. They scrimmage Campbell. Now that Edgewood has moved on, I'd look for the remaining schools to try to steal Jefferson away from their new conference.
The other schools in the league probably wouldn't accept Kennedy into their conference, that is why we are in the NCL to begin with. BTW this is the last year we play Labrae, Valley Christian takes their place next season, and if I'm not mistaken the Champion deal was just a home and home. Trinity leaving is interesting, I am curious as to who will replace them.
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Old 04-21-18, 01:22 PM
SteelValley SteelValley is offline
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I think this league makes a lot of sense for Lakeside. I could never figure them joining the AAC. It was far away and they weren’t remotely competitive in just about any sport in the top tier of the AAC.

It will be interesting to see what happens for football in top tier of AAC. I don’t think Canfield and Howland have any option other than joining Boardman, Fitch and Warren Harding unless they are just going to go independent or join a league an hour away. Both of which seem like dumb alternatives.
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Old 04-21-18, 02:28 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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FOOTBALL in the "new" CVC has one division of eight and two divisions of seven. The two divisions of seven will have one crossover game (since the schools are similar enough), so all 22 teams have weeks four through ten of their schedules filled.

The upper division is an enrollment based grouping of the big schools.
The "middle" division is has slightly bigger enrollment schools than the "lower" division but it leans to the east geographically
The "lower" division has slightly smaller enrollment and leans to the west geographically. Richmond Hts and most significantly Fairport are probably east-leaning schools but their enrollment (Fairport) and combo enrollment/location (Richmond Hts) makes them fit in this goup

Divisions were released for baseball, fast-pitch, and both genders of basketball ... and there are four divisions in those sports. The other sports have not had their divisions set, but I figure it's probably going to be the four division set up.

All six new schools gain something from this conference in comparison to their previous situation:
-Lakeside -- (1) competitiveness (2) geography
-Edgewood -- geography
-Grand Valley -- (1) medium-term football scheduling concerns (2) not being way bigger than their conference peers
-Trinity -- (1) geogaphy (2) competitiveness
-Brooklyn & Lutheran West -- being in a conference

For the incumbent teams
-Beachwood, Berkshire, Hawken, Wickliffe: no longer have to beg every enrollment cycle to get the Valley division compared to the Chagrin for football
-Geneva and Painesville Harvey: the conference leans more "east"
-Cuyahoga Hts and Independence: the trips out east are basically eliminated (except once every other year in football) ... and I'd say for Cardinal it's the same thing in reverse

For the sports that aren't football, the geographical compactness of the groups is a significant benefit. There are no "forced" far trips in every season.
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Old 04-21-18, 02:52 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is online now
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Originally Posted by itzme View Post
JFK would love to join those other 7 but the majority wouldn't love for them to join. They already play LaBrae, Crestview, and Champion. They scrimmage Campbell. Now that Edgewood has moved on, I'd look for the remaining schools to try to steal Jefferson away from their new conference.
Please. Take them
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Old 04-21-18, 03:15 PM
OneBadOmbre OneBadOmbre is offline
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Is Windham is going to look at the PTC with Grand Valley leaving
Perfect fit for the PTC County... sign em up!
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Old 04-21-18, 04:15 PM
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I think this league makes a lot of sense for Lakeside. I could never figure them joining the AAC. It was far away and they weren’t remotely competitive in just about any sport in the top tier of the AAC.

It will be interesting to see what happens for football in top tier of AAC. I don’t think Canfield and Howland have any option other than joining Boardman, Fitch and Warren Harding unless they are just going to go independent or join a league an hour away. Both of which seem like dumb alternatives.
It is a better situation for Lakeside than the AAC. But, if Lakeside football becomes competitive they will not get a lot of computer points from D3-D4 schools. It's the reason Riverside and Madison left the old NEC with some of these schools in '98. It would be an ideal situation for Lakeside to join the WRC with same size schools.
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Old 04-22-18, 10:20 AM
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Completely surprised that Trinity will be ditching the NCL for the CVC


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Old 04-22-18, 10:31 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is online now
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You really got to feel for Edgewood. They have no chance in any league.
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Old 04-22-18, 01:33 PM
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It will be interesting to see what happens for football in top tier of AAC. I don’t think Canfield and Howland have any option other than joining Boardman, Fitch and Warren Harding unless they are just going to go independent or join a league an hour away. Both of which seem like dumb alternatives.
Canfield is not going to join up with Boardman, Austintown Fitch and Warren Harding for football, and the other schools either don't field all the sports that Canfield has a team for or have non-competitive teams that aren't even worth playing. Canfield might agree to play them in anything but football but the current playoff system does not allow for Canfield to schedule them all. Canfield is a better fit in other Akron/NEO area leagues for both football and other sports such as hockey and lacrosse.
Howland however is more likely to just schedule more local teams than join a league further away, plus they are not as good of a fit otherwise in most sports and other considerations.
Canfield's main problem for joining an Akron area league is geography/logistics, it would be 30 minutes to an hour for most trips in those leagues. If Canfield was situated 15 or 20 minutes further west (closer to Akron) on I-76/I-80 then it would likely be an easy decision for Canfield and the other league members.


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Old 04-22-18, 04:33 PM
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Completely surprised that Trinity will be ditching the NCL for the CVC


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I'd speculate Trinity is leaving the NCL because they are dissatisfied with their competitive situation (football) AND/OR they are dissatisfied with the amount of travel involved for their teams (all sports). For instance, do they really want the trips to Warren JFK and St. Thomas Aquinas from an all-sports perspective?
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Old 04-22-18, 06:32 PM
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I'd speculate Trinity is leaving the NCL because they are dissatisfied with their competitive situation (football) AND/OR they are dissatisfied with the amount of travel involved for their teams (all sports). For instance, do they really want the trips to Warren JFK and St. Thomas Aquinas from an all-sports perspective?
I doubt this league last more than 5 years. I potentially see a league consisting of Cuy Hts, Indy, Brooklyn, Luth. West, Rich Hts, Luth. East, Trinity and Columbia.
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Old 04-22-18, 06:48 PM
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Who will be the cross over rivals? I assume Kirtland vs Cuy. Hts and Beachwood vs Rich. Hts, maybe Indy vs Wickliffe, Hawken vs Luth. West, Berkshire vs Fairport, Cardinal vs Brooklyn and GV vs Trinity
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Old 04-22-18, 06:57 PM
Macman Macman is offline
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This is a really, really interesting expansion. It seems that the new teams to the expansion got a much better deal than the existing teams.

In my opinion, Fairport definitely got the short end of the stick, especially when it comes to football. I know it’s mostly Friday nights, but to be grouped with a bunch of west side schools is just so peculiar. There are only three existing teams that I think really benefit from these additions: Cuyahoga Heights, Independence, and that Wickliffe/Hawken “8th team in the Chagrin division” split. You could make the argument it benefits Berkshire/Cardinal too. I think it’s a wash for Perry; better geographically, but I feel they’re losing some of those rivalries they’ve really developed in the CVC.

In my opinion, it seems like you have a lot of “leagues within a league” with this new format: the west side league, the Eastern Lake/Ashtabula league, and then some of the traditional CVC members. I’m almost wondering if they would be better off looking for two additional teams and making it an even 24. I’m super curious who the other 8 teams were who applied but denied admission.


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Fairport according to the new plans will be in a division with only 2 schools that are considered from the West side. Lutheran West and Brooklyn
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Old 04-22-18, 07:13 PM
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I don't see Windham leaving the NAC, because Grand Valley left. Actually Windham would stay now, they will be the favorites in football now along with Mathews. If Mathews ever left, that's when Windham leaves. The NAC is actually a perfect fit for Windham, Windham isn't that far from the schools. Windham is right on the Portage/Trumbull county line.

What about Jackson Milton to replace Grand Valley? They also play everyone in the NAC in all sports.
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Old 04-23-18, 10:17 AM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
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You really got to feel for Edgewood. They have no chance in any league.
Have your squad forefeet for them then
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Old 04-23-18, 04:42 PM
SteelValley SteelValley is offline
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Canfield is not going to join up with Boardman, Austintown Fitch and Warren Harding for football, and the other schools either don't field all the sports that Canfield has a team for or have non-competitive teams that aren't even worth playing. Canfield might agree to play them in anything but football but the current playoff system does not allow for Canfield to schedule them all. Canfield is a better fit in other Akron/NEO area leagues for both football and other sports such as hockey and lacrosse.
Howland however is more likely to just schedule more local teams than join a league further away, plus they are not as good of a fit otherwise in most sports and other considerations.
Canfield's main problem for joining an Akron area league is geography/logistics, it would be 30 minutes to an hour for most trips in those leagues. If Canfield was situated 15 or 20 minutes further west (closer to Akron) on I-76/I-80 then it would likely be an easy decision for Canfield and the other league members.


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Boardman would also be a better fit in Federal League but travel costs and time wasted are just not worth it. Especially will alllocal public schools tight on funding.

Canfield is going to have to realize they are essentially in the same class or back/forth being same class in every sport but football.

The other thing re: football is if they can’t take 1 or 2 games out of 3 from WGH, Boardman and Fitch most years, they aren’t winning a D-3 title so not sure why it matters. You can schedule those 3 and play your usual mix of D-3 through D-5.

Boardman isn’t D-1 but plays 3-4 of them each year and still has made the playoffs. Not sure the difference. We’re not talking about playing up and taking on Mentor, Ignatius and Hoban.
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Old 05-05-18, 06:16 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelValley View Post
Canfield is going to have to realize they are essentially in the same class or back/forth being same class in every sport but football.

The other thing re: football is if they can’t take 1 or 2 games out of 3 from WGH, Boardman and Fitch most years, they aren’t winning a D-3 title so not sure why it matters. You can schedule those 3 and play your usual mix of D-3 through D-5.

Boardman isn’t D-1 but plays 3-4 of them each year and still has made the playoffs. Not sure the difference. We’re not talking about playing up and taking on Mentor, Ignatius and Hoban.
Canfield is weird in that in some sports they are better than all the area D-I schools some years and then can't compete at all other years. Canfield's teams in most sports don't have a great deal of depth and rely on one or two key players to carry the team.
If Canfield had more depth in football then playing Boardman, WGH, & Fitch every year would be a non-issue, but as you saw this past year Canfield's QB got banged up pretty bad and they lost to SVSM.
Further Canfield does not schedule any D-V schools in football and only played two lower division schools in D-IV Struthers (7-4) and Poland (8-3). They played four D-II schools, four D-III schools and the two aforementioned D-IV schools.

At the end of the day Boardman and Fitch belong in a league like the Federal League and at the end of the day Canfield belongs in a league like the Suburban League American Division, except for the obvious logistical problems. The enrollment disparity between Fitch and Canfield keeps on growing and the disparity between Boardman and Harding isn't getting any smaller anytime soon.
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