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  #1351  
Old 01-04-18, 02:27 PM
TitanBall4 TitanBall4 is offline
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GAME Clock clarification after Penalties (resetting)

Can someone clear up Time Clock running after a penalty being enforced and prior to the snap on next play. On more than one occasion I witnessed what appeared to be excessive time coming off the clock after a penalty was enforced. In one instance the team that was winning had possession of the ball - after a short run play- they lined up and the play clock ran down to final seconds, the ball was snapped- offensive illegal procedure was called immediately- the GAME clock stopped for the referees to move the ball back and reset 5 yards, upon resetting the referee circled his arm for the clock to run- at which time BOTH the play clock and the GAME clock began to run... the winning team allowed another 44 seconds to run off the REAL. I turned to the people around me and observed the fact that the winning team RAN a full minute and 30 seconds OFF the game clock without costing them a down (only the 5 yards from the penalty)- I insisted that the GAME CLOCK should not have ran - only the PLAY clock after the ball resetting 5 yards back on the penalty. A couple of experienced fans around me disagreed... I told them IF that's the case- you could run out the clock by committing penalties- moving backwards but not losing downs. I also saw this at the beginning of a game in which it was in the teams best interest to keep other offense off the field, Is this correct? I thought after a penalty is enforced (accepted) the GAME CLOCK should remain stopped until the next play is run.
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  #1352  
Old 01-04-18, 02:50 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanBall4 View Post
Can someone clear up Time Clock running after a penalty being enforced and prior to the snap on next play. On more than one occasion I witnessed what appeared to be excessive time coming off the clock after a penalty was enforced. In one instance the team that was winning had possession of the ball - after a short run play- they lined up and the play clock ran down to final seconds, the ball was snapped- offensive illegal procedure was called immediately- the GAME clock stopped for the referees to move the ball back and reset 5 yards, upon resetting the referee circled his arm for the clock to run- at which time BOTH the play clock and the GAME clock began to run... the winning team allowed another 44 seconds to run off the REAL. I turned to the people around me and observed the fact that the winning team RAN a full minute and 30 seconds OFF the game clock without costing them a down (only the 5 yards from the penalty)- I insisted that the GAME CLOCK should not have ran - only the PLAY clock after the ball resetting 5 yards back on the penalty. A couple of experienced fans around me disagreed... I told them IF that's the case- you could run out the clock by committing penalties- moving backwards but not losing downs. I also saw this at the beginning of a game in which it was in the teams best interest to keep other offense off the field, Is this correct? I thought after a penalty is enforced (accepted) the GAME CLOCK should remain stopped until the next play is run.
In general, the status of the clock remains the same after the penalty enforcement as it was prior to the enforcement. (there are some fouls that mandate the clock starting at the snap after enforcement)

However, a rule change prior to this season provided for the offended team to have the option of having the clock start on the snap if that penalty enforcement occurs inside the final two minutes of either half.
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  #1353  
Old 01-04-18, 03:38 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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I have no comment for the present discussion, but what I would like to say is that I have gotten a wealth of information from this thread during the past year and I thank you for that.
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  #1354  
Old 01-04-18, 05:17 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
I have no comment for the present discussion, but what I would like to say is that I have gotten a wealth of information from this thread during the past year and I thank you for that.
That's what we were hoping for when we set this up. Hope to continue educating going forward.
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  #1355  
Old 01-06-18, 11:54 AM
TitanBall4 TitanBall4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
In general, the status of the clock remains the same after the penalty enforcement as it was prior to the enforcement. (there are some fouls that mandate the clock starting at the snap after enforcement)

However, a rule change prior to this season provided for the offended team to have the option of having the clock start on the snap if that penalty enforcement occurs inside the final two minutes of either half.
OK, That might explain some of what I saw- but I think there was some human error involved as well. In one game over 2 minutes ran off the clock and though penalty yardage was lost- NO PLAY was recorded- seems like a great way to win time possession of the ball!! Especially if you can make up for lost yardage.
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  #1356  
Old 01-06-18, 01:09 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanBall4 View Post
OK, That might explain some of what I saw- but I think there was some human error involved as well. In one game over 2 minutes ran off the clock and though penalty yardage was lost- NO PLAY was recorded- seems like a great way to win time possession of the ball!! Especially if you can make up for lost yardage.
A couple of things....

1) If this happened inside of two minutes remaining of either half, then the offended team had the option of starting the clock on the snap. Fi they didn't, that's on them.

2) It has always been illegal to intentionally foul for the purpose of consuming time.... that said, in over 5 decades of working this sport, I have yet to see a team (or even hear of a team) attempt this, particularly in the first or third periods..... It rarely happens, therefore, no need for a special rule outside the current 2 minutes.
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  #1357  
Old 01-08-18, 09:44 PM
TitanBall4 TitanBall4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
A couple of things....

1) If this happened inside of two minutes remaining of either half, then the offended team had the option of starting the clock on the snap. Fi they didn't, that's on them.

2) It has always been illegal to intentionally foul for the purpose of consuming time.... that said, in over 5 decades of working this sport, I have yet to see a team (or even hear of a team) attempt this, particularly in the first or third periods..... It rarely happens, therefore, no need for a special rule outside the current 2 minutes.
It didnt happen inside of 2 minutes... Whether it was intentional or not - I witnessed about 2:30 come of the clock and NO down was recorded. Had to be human error or some type of oversight- like when a MLB hitter gets a 4th strike!
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  #1358  
Old 01-08-18, 10:55 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanBall4 View Post
It didnt happen inside of 2 minutes... Whether it was intentional or not - I witnessed about 2:30 come of the clock and NO down was recorded. Had to be human error or some type of oversight- like when a MLB hitter gets a 4th strike!
You previously mentioned that "penalty yardage was lost". What were the fouls that caused the loss of yardage?

Last edited by AllSports12; 01-09-18 at 07:30 AM.
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  #1359  
Old 01-15-18, 11:45 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Point after T.D.

Just a History question.
I though a long time ago I though you needed time on the clock to try the Point after T.D. ?

Do you know when this rule was changed ?
Maybe it was just college .
just wondering......
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  #1360  
Old 01-15-18, 12:42 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
Just a History question.
I though a long time ago I though you needed time on the clock to try the Point after T.D. ?

Do you know when this rule was changed ?
Maybe it was just college .
just wondering......
Under NFHS and NCAA rules the game is over if the PAT will not alter the outcome.

The NFL is different for a couple of reasons...

In the regular season, even if the PAT would not change the outcome of the game, either by the offense or defense scoring, the PAT could have affect the point differential formulas for playoff tiebreakers.

The other reason......... gambling. Millions of dollars hinged on that PAT yesterday. The NFL decided some time ago (for some reason, 2008 sticks in my brain) that since they will snap the ball during the regular season, they'll do it in the post-season as well. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't........

That said, after taking almost 10 minutes to snap the ball and take a knee, they need to revisit the reason why they would do this in the post-season..... which is another damned if they do/don't situation because they will never admit publicly that their reason was linked to gambling.
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  #1361  
Old 02-04-18, 09:52 PM
Wadz06 Wadz06 is offline
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Is the number “0” or “00” allowed in HS football?


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  #1362  
Old 02-04-18, 10:22 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadz06 View Post
Is the number “0” or “00” allowed in HS football?


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No

1-99
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  #1363  
Old 04-25-18, 10:14 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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This might be the most Youngstown question ever:

Has anyone ever had to deal with a player that has to wear an ankle bracelet so their whereabouts are always known?

I imagine as long as the referee is notified and the device is secured and padded it would be no big deal, similar to a hearing aid or an insuline pump?
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  #1364  
Old 04-25-18, 01:24 PM
RB22 RB22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
This might be the most Youngstown question ever:

Has anyone ever had to deal with a player that has to wear an ankle bracelet so their whereabouts are always known?

I imagine as long as the referee is notified and the device is secured and padded it would be no big deal, similar to a hearing aid or an insuline pump?


I am an official and I work within the Federal Court System. A person on bond and wearing an ankle bracelet may only leave their house to attend school, church, and medical appointments. I checked with those in the know and attending and playing in extracurricular sports is not authorized by the court. Of course the officials wouldn’t know that unless they had specific knowledge.


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  #1365  
Old 04-26-18, 10:39 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB22 View Post
I am an official and I work within the Federal Court System. A person on bond and wearing an ankle bracelet may only leave their house to attend school, church, and medical appointments. I checked with those in the know and attending and playing in extracurricular sports is not authorized by the court. Of course the officials wouldn’t know that unless they had specific knowledge.


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The officials have no authority to rule whether or not this player can participate based on the bracelet alone. (even if they know)

If presented to the officials, they should have the item padded, just as it was a brace. Afterwards, they should file a game report with the State Association advising of the situation and let the Association handle things from there.
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  #1366  
Old 04-27-18, 09:52 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
The officials have no authority to rule whether or not this player can participate based on the bracelet alone. (even if they know)

If presented to the officials, they should have the item padded, just as it was a brace. Afterwards, they should file a game report with the State Association advising of the situation and let the Association handle things from there.
That's what I was looking for.Thank you.
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  #1367  
Old 05-02-18, 10:56 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
That's what I was looking for.Thank you.
Not too different than when about a dozen or so years ago a young man who had no legs played for a Dayton school. The first crew that encountered him had issues with whether or not he could play, as it wasn't specifically mentioned in any rule book that he could participate with no legs...

They finally determined that he could not play using the rationale of "not legally equipped" (no shoes)... the next week the player came out with his shoes tied to his belt loops, which was priceless........

Ultimately, the state office got involved and issued a bulletin outlining the circumstances that allowed him to play.

Same thing here....... Find a way to safely allow the kids to participate. Let the judges determine whether or not he can legally play.
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  #1368  
Old 07-02-18, 07:15 PM
ICBM ICBM is offline
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Question on spotting the ball. I realize the ball is now generally spotted to the closest yard line after play. Is that a general rule even when you approaching the goal line. After a second down play with the line to gain being the defending teams twenty yard line, the ball was spotted half a yard short of a first down. 3rd down on the box. Ball marked ready to play by linesman who originally marked the spot. Offense comes up to prepare to run the next play. Referee stops play, picks up the ball and moves it the 20 and signals first down. Apparently he had already signaled first down even though it was never achieved and took it upon himself to correct his mistake by just over ruling the rest of the crew. Kinda cuts at the integrity of the game. Any justification for this. I’ve worked the chains for thirty years and never saw an action like that.
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  #1369  
Old 07-03-18, 07:23 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBM View Post
Question on spotting the ball. I realize the ball is now generally spotted to the closest yard line after play. Is that a general rule even when you approaching the goal line. After a second down play with the line to gain being the defending teams twenty yard line, the ball was spotted half a yard short of a first down. 3rd down on the box. Ball marked ready to play by linesman who originally marked the spot. Offense comes up to prepare to run the next play. Referee stops play, picks up the ball and moves it the 20 and signals first down. Apparently he had already signaled first down even though it was never achieved and took it upon himself to correct his mistake by just over ruling the rest of the crew. Kinda cuts at the integrity of the game. Any justification for this. I’ve worked the chains for thirty years and never saw an action like that.
Pure speculation as to why the R killed the play and had the ball moved. There's nothing from a normal standpoint that would allow this.
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  #1370  
Old 07-23-18, 05:31 PM
chito chito is offline
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Can you explain the new kickoff out of bounds procedure? Previously if a kickoff went out of bounds you could either take the ball 25 yards from the spot of the kick, take the ball where it went out or accepta 5 yard penalty and choose a re-kick. Now there is an added option to accept a 5 yard penalty added to where the ball went out? Have any of the previous options been removed or is this just a new fourth option?
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  #1371  
Old 07-23-18, 05:50 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chito View Post
Can you explain the new kickoff out of bounds procedure? Previously if a kickoff went out of bounds you could either take the ball 25 yards from the spot of the kick, take the ball where it went out or accepta 5 yard penalty and choose a re-kick. Now there is an added option to accept a 5 yard penalty added to where the ball went out? Have any of the previous options been removed or is this just a new fourth option?
The new rule keeps the three previous options available and adds a fourth.

The three previous options were....

1) Accept a 5-yard penalty from the previous spot and have K rekick

2) Put the ball in play at the inbounds spot 25 yards beyond the previous spot

3) Decline the penalty and put the ball in play at the inbounds spot

The new option is....

4) Accept a 5yd penalty at the succeeding spot (spot where the kicked ball, untouched by R, went of bounds)

This change was made to reduce the amount of re-kicks (reducing risk) and to ensure that appropriate penalties are in place for all fouls.
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  #1372  
Old 07-23-18, 09:17 PM
chito chito is offline
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Thanks, clear now.
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  #1373  
Old 07-24-18, 08:28 AM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
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What is the difference between the "Spot" that someone would choose #3 over the new #4
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  #1374  
Old 07-24-18, 05:15 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
What is the difference between the "Spot" that someone would choose #3 over the new #4
very simply, #4 places the ball 5 yards closer to the opponent's goal line than if they chose #3.
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  #1375  
Old 07-24-18, 06:17 PM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
very simply, #4 places the ball 5 yards closer to the opponent's goal line than if they chose #3.


That’s what I thought, but I was wondering if I was missing something as I see no reason why you would choose 3 over 4.

So from a practical standpoint 4 replaces 3, though 3 still exists in the rules.

And I am sure a coach will say “take it at the spot” forgetting he can get a 5 yards.


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  #1376  
Old 07-25-18, 05:16 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
That’s what I thought, but I was wondering if I was missing something as I see no reason why you would choose 3 over 4.

So from a practical standpoint 4 replaces 3, though 3 still exists in the rules.

And I am sure a coach will say “take it at the spot” forgetting he can get a 5 yards.


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It maintains consistency in penalty enforcement across all rules. A team always has the option of declining the penalty, just as they have the option of accepting the penalty, but declining the penalty distance.
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  #1377  
Old 08-06-18, 08:31 AM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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I have heard this before and think I know there is no such thing as an "uncatchable ball". Watching replays of some of the best games from last season I still hear announcers refer to an uncatchable ball and why there should be no PI called.

Is it the same at all levels? HS, college and NFL.
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  #1378  
Old 08-06-18, 08:40 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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High school is the only level of the three which does not have the rule. A lot of officials will try to use common sense when it comes to these calls but it is not specifically laid out in the rule book.
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  #1379  
Old 08-06-18, 12:11 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
And I am sure a coach will say “take it at the spot” forgetting he can get a 5 yards.
No crew (I hope) is going to allow a coach to make that mistake.

To save time and to avoid unnecessary confusion, we're only going to give the coach two choices e.g.,

If the ball rolls out of bounds at the 22 yard line we'll ask "Do want the ball on the 35, or a 5 yard penalty and rekick?

If the ball rolls out of bounds at the 33 yard line we'll ask "Do want the ball on the 38, or a 5 yard penalty and rekick?
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  #1380  
Old 08-12-18, 06:07 AM
BigK72 BigK72 is offline
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Question on jersey eligibility numbers.

I know in college/pro, #77 can report as eligible and be a legal TE. Is that the case in HS? Can a lineman be eligible and be able to go out for a pass from a TE or RB position? If so, do they have to report to the referee or just line up and play?
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