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  #1  
Old 04-27-18, 06:26 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Athletic Program

I was told Elder “reviews” their Athletic program every yr. if that’s the case, they either don’t care or aren’t paying attention. The athletic program is mediocre, and it will stay mediocre until some of you sack up and put pressure on the Admin to win. Here’s my cursory “review”

Football- mediocre

Soccer- sub Par

Basketball- sub par

Wrestling- excellent

Hockey- very good

Baseball- Mediocre

Volleyball- excellent

LAX- terrible

This is awful and Elder s/b embarrassed they’ve allowed their athletic program to sink so badly. They’ve told me, “Elder will never be what you want us to be.” And my response to that is “you’ll never be good?” Stop with this fake morality bs. First, you have no moral high ground after Gramke, and secondly, you’re losing bc of your own doing, not bc other schools “recruit.” We should be embarrassed by all of the excuse making that goes on

Last edited by Descartes; 04-27-18 at 06:53 PM.
  #2  
Old 04-27-18, 08:32 PM
bocilevu bocilevu is offline
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priorities

I have read these forums for a number of years, mostly to find out scores or see what is being built or going out of business on the west side thread. For the most part I am amused and sometimes saddened by the comments here and while tempted, I have never really felt like writing. It amazes me how much of your life is wrapped around the success of a particular high schoolís sports record. My son recently graduated from Elder and I was pleased with the school. This first job of an educational institution is to educate. A Catholic institution should also strive to produce graduates that are decent human beings who are called to serve those less fortunate than themselves. I believe that Elder did an excellent job at both of those things. Is the won loss record for any particular year more important than the life lessons a young man may learn from spending time with someone like Coach Schoenfeld or Coach Ramsey? Ninety nine percent of the athletes who graduate from Elder are not going to continue to participate in their sports on the next level. All of the graduates of Elder are going to go on to live lives where they need to learn to be responsible, successful adults. That should be Elderís focus and it has been. It is sad that some old men have to live their lives through the athletic exploits of 17 and 18 year old young men. I really think you need to spend some time volunteering at a homeless shelter or working with the poor. Something to put your priorities in proper perspective. When I think of the ideal Elder man I think of someone like Mr. Klusman. Elder should be more concerned about producing more Mark Klusmans than firing coaches and winning at all costs, consequences be damned.
  #3  
Old 04-27-18, 09:17 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by bocilevu View Post
I have read these forums for a number of years, mostly to find out scores or see what is being built or going out of business on the west side thread. For the most part I am amused and sometimes saddened by the comments here and while tempted, I have never really felt like writing. It amazes me how much of your life is wrapped around the success of a particular high school’s sports record. My son recently graduated from Elder and I was pleased with the school. This first job of an educational institution is to educate. A Catholic institution should also strive to produce graduates that are decent human beings who are called to serve those less fortunate than themselves. I believe that Elder did an excellent job at both of those things. Is the won loss record for any particular year more important than the life lessons a young man may learn from spending time with someone like Coach Schoenfeld or Coach Ramsey? Ninety nine percent of the athletes who graduate from Elder are not going to continue to participate in their sports on the next level. All of the graduates of Elder are going to go on to live lives where they need to learn to be responsible, successful adults. That should be Elder’s focus and it has been. It is sad that some old men have to live their lives through the athletic exploits of 17 and 18 year old young men. I really think you need to spend some time volunteering at a homeless shelter or working with the poor. Something to put your priorities in proper perspective. When I think of the ideal Elder man I think of someone like Mr. Klusman. Elder should be more concerned about producing more Mark Klusmans than firing coaches and winning at all costs, consequences be damned.
Spare me your moralistic bs. You know what an important life lesson is? Winning. The focus of Elder athletics should be winning. Your a parent, it’s your responsibility to teach your kid “life lessons”, it’s the coach’s responsibility to win.

And producing more Mark Klusmans doesn’t preclude you from having a succesful Athletic program. That’s a weak azz excuse. That’s all I hear is excuses and I’m sick of it. Elder athletics are not performing to the level they should. The culture in the program is built on excuses and you have guys like this trying to make it about life lessons? F- that.
  #4  
Old 04-27-18, 09:31 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by bocilevu View Post
Is the won loss record for any particular year more important than the life lessons a young man may learn from spending time with someone like Coach Schoenfeld or Coach Ramsey?
Yes. And it's dumb for anyone to think otherwise. The only life lessons they're learning now is to blame everyone else for your shortcomings. It's a terrible culture they've built, this is major D1 athletics. Enough with this Ned Flanders-esque garbage.

I know I come off looking like the bad guy, but I don't care. Their athletic program needs to be stripped down top to bottom, bc right now it's pathetic.
  #5  
Old 04-28-18, 11:22 AM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is online now
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Originally Posted by bocilevu View Post
My son recently graduated from Elder and I was pleased with the school. This first job of an educational institution is to educate. A Catholic institution should also strive to produce graduates that are decent human beings who are called to serve those less fortunate than themselves. I believe that Elder did an excellent job at both of those things.
Thank you for sending your son to Elder. I agree that the athletic program needs to do a better job but I also agree that is secondary to giving young men a good Christian education.

Thanks again and Altiora!
  #6  
Old 04-28-18, 12:49 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
Thank you for sending your son to Elder. I agree that the athletic program needs to do a better job but I also agree that is secondary to giving young men a good Christian education.

Thanks again and Altiora!
When did it become doctrine that one prevents the other? Thatís a mosquito dik excuse, that the Admin and Staff have brainwashed feeble minded ppl into believing.
  #7  
Old 04-28-18, 04:10 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is online now
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
When did it become doctrine that one prevents the other? Thatís a mosquito dik excuse, that the Admin and Staff have brainwashed feeble minded ppl into believing.
Never said it. I agree the athletic department needs to make improvement. You have to be more sensitive to those who have made the sacrifice to send their sons to Elder and the reason they do so, and it isn't sports.
  #8  
Old 04-28-18, 07:05 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Never said it. I agree the athletic department needs to make improvement. You have to be more sensitive to those who have made the sacrifice to send their sons to Elder and the reason they do so, and it isn't sports.
Youíre trying to play both sides. Weíre not talking about ďwhyĒ people send their kid to Elder. Itís the Athletic Program isnít held to the standard it should be. Wins and Losses are more important than life lessons. If thatís the only metric we judge coaches by, they should be counselors instead.

Iím so tired of hearing about how Elder does things ďthe right way.Ē Itís all bs. If theyíve got proof other schools are breaking the rules, turn them in, otherwise stop complaining.

All I want them to do is acknowledge the past few yrs arenít up to the standard at Elder. I know it wonít happen bc theyíre either too sensitive or egotistical to admit anything is wrong.

Iím tired of being the only person putting my neck out there bc you guys are either too cowardly or too much of a kiss azz to point out whatís wrong.
  #9  
Old 04-28-18, 07:32 PM
bocilevu bocilevu is offline
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You write that wins are loses are more important than life lessons. That is the part of you that scares me. You really should step back and take a look at your life. It is high school athletics. With all that is going on in the world and in your own personal development, is this where you are going to place your passion?
  #10  
Old 04-28-18, 08:10 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by bocilevu View Post
You write that wins are loses are more important than life lessons. That is the part of you that scares me. You really should step back and take a look at your life. It is high school athletics. With all that is going on in the world and in your own personal development, is this where you are going to place your passion?
Did you forget this is a HS Sports site? This isn’t a life site. And the point is, coaches are there to win games, they aren’t there to pick up the parenting slack for you. Maybe you should get better at parenting?
  #11  
Old 04-28-18, 08:45 PM
polar panther polar panther is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Did you forget this is a HS Sports site? This isnít a life site. And the point is, coaches are there to win games, they arenít there to pick up the parenting slack for you. Maybe you should get better at parenting?
Maybe you should just go away. Apparently Elder has told you they are not going to do what you want them to do. Save yourself the trouble, just stop. There's no point in going on.
  #12  
Old 04-28-18, 09:01 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by polar panther View Post
Maybe you should just go away. Apparently Elder has told you they are not going to do what you want them to do. Save yourself the trouble, just stop. There's no point in going on.
I want them to win. If they donít want to win, why even have an athletic program?
  #13  
Old 04-28-18, 10:21 PM
polar panther polar panther is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
I want them to win. If they donít want to win, why even have an athletic program?
Again, if you don't think they WANT to win, go get involved with something else.
  #14  
Old 04-28-18, 11:02 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Again, if you don't think they WANT to win, go get involved with something else.
No. I actually care about Elder and itís athletics and I canít stand by while this descent into mediocrity continues to go unchallenged.
  #15  
Old 04-29-18, 09:20 AM
beeman beeman is offline
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Originally Posted by polar panther View Post
Maybe you should just go away. Apparently Elder has told you they are not going to do what you want them to do. Save yourself the trouble, just stop. There's no point in going on.
You know the easiest way to make pboy go away...stop responding to him.


What's the old saying? "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
  #16  
Old 04-29-18, 10:53 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Iím tired of being the only person putting my neck out there bc you guys are either too cowardly or too much of a kiss azz to point out whatís wrong.
Because posting on an anonymous message board is really sticking your neck out there. Even though most people do know you, I wouldn't say it's "putting your neck out there." Based on some of your previous comments, you don't have much of a good a reputation to live up to anyways.
  #17  
Old 04-29-18, 10:55 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
No. I actually care about Elder and itís athletics and I canít stand by while this descent into mediocrity continues to go unchallenged.
So you're going to raise hell on a HS sports message board, that'll show 'em.
  #18  
Old 04-29-18, 11:00 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by beeman View Post
You know the easiest way to make pboy go away...stop responding to him.
At this point I'm not sure that would work either. I'd love to see Pboy try to coach any of these kids/sports and see his results. My guess he wouldn't last a full season in any sport. He would either lose the kids or cross the line by saying or doing something stupid and get himself fired.
  #19  
Old 04-29-18, 11:22 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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At this point I'm not sure that would work either. I'd love to see Pboy try to coach any of these kids/sports and see his results. My guess he wouldn't last a full season in any sport. He would either lose the kids or cross the line by saying or doing something stupid and get himself fired.
Did I say I could do a better job coaching? Where did I say that? The point is, there needs to be a bigger push for talent. They canít just sit around and hope kids come to Elder. And in the meantime, they need to stop feeding us BS about why theyíre constantly losing to the other GCL schools. Those of us who arenít dumb or kids azzes know Elder can do better, but the Admin has created a toxic culture centered around excuse making.

Every sport at Elder should be modeled like the Wrestling Program. Itís no coincidence that hiring someone outside the Elder coterie pushed the program to new heights. Then look at LAX and what a disaster that hire was, hard to imagine there werenít more qualified external candidates, but at least they didnít hire that dip sh** sbutler.
  #20  
Old 04-29-18, 11:25 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Because posting on an anonymous message board is really sticking your neck out there. Even though most people do know you, I wouldn't say it's "putting your neck out there." Based on some of your previous comments, you don't have much of a good a reputation to live up to anyways.
Thatís the thing, I donít care about MY reputation. If you havenít figured this out, none of this is about me. Itís Elder needing to take its Athletic Rep more seriously. Right now, theyíre a joke. And anytime this subject gets brought up, itís cast aside with an excuse that the other GCL schools ďrecruit.Ē Again, if Elder has proof, they should turn in the other schools, otherwise they should focus on getting their act together.
  #21  
Old 04-29-18, 11:28 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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So you're going to raise hell on a HS sports message board, that'll show 'em.
Better than sitting around doing nothing. Youíre an agent of mediocrity, so for you the past decade is probably fine. However, IMO, itís embarrassing that the only sport theyíve won a state title in is really a girlís sport. Not that Iím not proud of what vball has done, but football, bball, baseball are just more important
  #22  
Old 04-29-18, 01:33 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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As reminder, last outright GCL Title in each of the big 3:

Football- 2008
Basketball- 2006
Baseball- 2014

That’s doing things the “right” way? Bull s***. They’ll bend the rules if your kid had the right last name. He can violently assault a classmate as long as he has the right name. Hell, they’ll even let him walk out for Sr Night, play baseball and do the coin flip at a FB game a few yrs later.

I harp on this point bc it shows how phony this “morality” claim Elder uses to justify their mediocre athletic program is. Morality isn’t selective, regardless of the kid’s dad has you in his back pocket. And that isn’t to say every other school doesn’t have those kind of alumni, Elder just needs to step off the soap box

Last edited by Descartes; 04-29-18 at 02:39 PM.
  #23  
Old 04-30-18, 07:36 AM
TheDude TheDude is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Every sport at Elder should be modeled like the Wrestling Program. Itís no coincidence that hiring someone outside the Elder coterie pushed the program to new heights.
Side note: the Volleyball program's coaching staff is 100% Elder grads. Seems to be working pretty well for them.
  #24  
Old 04-30-18, 07:39 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Side note: the Volleyball program's coaching staff is 100% Elder grads. Seems to be working pretty well for them.
You canít compare those teams. The depth of competition in VBALL is far less than wrestling.
  #25  
Old 04-30-18, 11:22 AM
TheDude TheDude is offline
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Who cares about the depth of competition? Isn't the goal winning?
  #26  
Old 04-30-18, 01:08 PM
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There doesn't seem to be much politics going on with volleyball. Maybe there is, but if there is, you don't hear about it. That's a testament to the coaches. And they continue to win.

I think most of Elder's athletic difficulties are self-inflicted...but I also see alot of positives in developing kids and instilling hard working attitudes that lead to success. I've said from the beginning that Elder has great coaches...I just think many of them let personal relationships and certain cliques have some influence that keeps things status quo. But they do get the most out of the kids. Sometimes, however, it's the wrong kids.
  #27  
Old 04-30-18, 01:10 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Did I say I could do a better job coaching? Where did I say that? The point is, there needs to be a bigger push for talent. They canít just sit around and hope kids come to Elder. And in the meantime, they need to stop feeding us BS about why theyíre constantly losing to the other GCL schools. Those of us who arenít dumb or kids azzes know Elder can do better, but the Admin has created a toxic culture centered around excuse making.
No but your expert hindsight analysis certainly makes it seem like you could and would do better. How has ESPN not hired you? Better yet the Bengals?

Quote:
Every sport at Elder should be modeled like the Wrestling Program. Itís no coincidence that hiring someone outside the Elder coterie pushed the program to new heights. Then look at LAX and what a disaster that hire was, hard to imagine there werenít more qualified external candidates, but at least they didnít hire that dip sh** sbutler.
Much easier said than done, but a fair argument to be made. They've had a lot of success, though I don't think it is absolutely necessary to hire outside the Elder tree. Some may disagree and I'm sure they have their reasons for thinking that way. But for you to say it because wrestling has had success is being completely narrow-minded.
  #28  
Old 04-30-18, 01:17 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Thatís the thing, I donít care about MY reputation. If you havenít figured this out, none of this is about me. Itís Elder needing to take its Athletic Rep more seriously. Right now, theyíre a joke. And anytime this subject gets brought up, itís cast aside with an excuse that the other GCL schools ďrecruit.Ē Again, if Elder has proof, they should turn in the other schools, otherwise they should focus on getting their act together.
You're the one claiming to be the only person putting their neck out there. If you're claiming to be the only one who cares then I'd say you're clueless, but most of us already knew that.
  #29  
Old 04-30-18, 01:20 PM
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Both are important.

They should be instilling all of the great things sports and great coaches instill in developing a successful person. I would say they are doing that.

But they should also be striving for excellence as well. How can they expect this from the kids if the administration is not doing the same for the sports programs? The school's motto is to strive for the higher things. It's OK to strive for excellence in sports too. Sure, it's not as important as being a quality individual, but it's an important part of the fabric of the school that should line up with its values. I would say they are not doing some of that.

I think most of us agree with pboy in some respects, just not the way he portrays it.
  #30  
Old 04-30-18, 01:29 PM
WorkRoadSammy WorkRoadSammy is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
As reminder, last outright GCL Title in each of the big 3:

Football- 2008
Basketball- 2006
Baseball- 2014

Thatís doing things the ďrightĒ way? Bull s***. Theyíll bend the rules if your kid had the right last name. He can violently assault a classmate as long as he has the right name. Hell, theyíll even let him walk out for Sr Night, play baseball and do the coin flip at a FB game a few yrs later.

I harp on this point bc it shows how phony this ďmoralityĒ claim Elder uses to justify their mediocre athletic program is. Morality isnít selective, regardless of the kidís dad has you in his back pocket. And that isnít to say every other school doesnít have those kind of alumni, Elder just needs to step off the soap box
The Big Three. This is not good. Changes are needed
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