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  #1  
Old 03-08-17, 07:00 AM
Pantherontheporch Pantherontheporch is offline
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Attracting more students-and therefore a few more athletes-to attend Elder

I started this thread because the discussion in the Mercy-McAuley merger thread drifted off-topic to this subject, so I thought I would ask some basic questions here. Being down there, you guys know what is going on in this area, I donít.
It has been about ten years since the Archdiocese of Cincinnati told its high schools to go forth and recruit (within OHSAA rules, of course). During that time, Iím sure all the high schools have tried a number of ways to advertise and market themselves. A while back, I drove down for an Elder game, pretty sure it was basketball, and I saw a billboard advertising LaSalle. I donít remember exactly where it was, it may have been somewhere along I-75, but I do remember thinking to myself, ďHmm . . . thatís interesting, the location of that sign is not really that close to LaSalle.Ē
Putting aside the issue of vouchers, what steps has Elder been taking to entice parents and their sons-and therefore maybe a few good athletes here and there-to at least consider checking out Elder? Is there a person within the administration whose job is the marketing of Elder, whether it be a full-time or part-time position? If Elder is taking some marketing steps, are they being taken outside the territory covered by Elderís former feeder schools? If so, to what extent? I realize it may not be worth the cost to put up a billboard near Moeller due to distance but what about one on the periphery of what used to be LaSalle or maybe Bacon territory in order to poach a few kids each year from them, including an athlete or two? Or is Elder limiting its marketing efforts, of whatever type (billboards, direct mailings, ads in parish bulletins, etc.), to the territory covered by its traditional feeder schools? If that is the case, I think it is a mistake unless there are legitimate reasons for doing so; Iím just not sure what those reasons could be.
I have no problem with a kid, athlete or nonathlete, from what used to be LaSalle or Bacon territory or even from anywhere else, deciding to go to Elder instead; and if he happens to be an athlete, so much the better. (If he happens to play a mean trumpet instead of being an athlete, thatís a good thing, too, but this is a sports site). And if he happens to be good enough to earn a starting position, even a varsity starting position eventually, so be it.
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  #2  
Old 03-08-17, 07:44 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Right now Elder has a huge billboard on Glenway in front of Panera and another on I-74. Elder absolutely wants students from non-traditional schools to be a part of the Elder experience.

What they have been reluctant to do is target athletes, attend their grade school games, wine/dine the parents, or accept vouchers, because of the entitlement which can come attached with those situations. This does not mean black. Heck, quite a few members of the extremely successful wrestling team are black. I'd guess more black kids are at Elder and on its teams now than ever before.

As I have said, Elder wants kids who want to be at Elder for the right reasons and would welcome all students with open arms.
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  #3  
Old 03-08-17, 08:31 AM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Right now Elder has a huge billboard on Glenway in front of Panera and another on I-74. Elder absolutely wants students from non-traditional schools to be a part of the Elder experience.
There is also a third billboard along I-75 near the Norwood Lateral.
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Old 03-08-17, 08:43 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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To get more athletes within the rules is simple: find the kids who are studs, have the marketing/admin reach out to him to get him to shadow. It's not breaking the rules unless coaches talk with him.

It may push the boundaries of the rules, but that's what successful programs do.
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  #5  
Old 03-08-17, 08:50 AM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Right now Elder has a huge billboard on Glenway in front of Panera and another on I-74. Elder absolutely wants students from non-traditional schools to be a part of the Elder experience.

What they have been reluctant to do is target athletes, attend their grade school games, wine/dine the parents, or accept vouchers, because of the entitlement which can come attached with those situations. This does not mean black. Heck, quite a few members of the extremely successful wrestling team are black. I'd guess more black kids are at Elder and on its teams now than ever before.

As I have said, Elder wants kids who want to be at Elder for the right reasons and would welcome all students with open arms.

There are currently 473 private schools in the state that accept vouchers including Moeller, Mercy, McCauley, St Xaiver, Ursula etc. Besides Elder it appears that McNick and Ursuline do not accept vouchers.

Vouchers provide disadvantaged students the opportunity to attend a school that may offer many more advantages then the school in their neighborhood.

Does anyone have insight as to why Elder has chosen not to accept vouchers?
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Old 03-08-17, 08:56 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
There are currently 473 private schools in the state that accept vouchers including Moeller, Mercy, McCauley, St Xaiver, Ursula etc. Besides Elder it appears that McNick and Ursuline do not accept vouchers.

Vouchers provide disadvantaged students the opportunity to attend a school that may offer many more advantages then the school in their neighborhood.

Does anyone have insight as to why Elder has chosen not to accept vouchers?
I've been told that Elder explored the option but chooses instead to offer significant and comparable amounts of financial aid. So instead of a $5000 voucher. Elder will offer $5000 in financial aid. Again, this is only what I've been told.
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Old 03-08-17, 09:04 AM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I've been told that Elder explored the option but chooses instead to offer significant and comparable amounts of financial aid. So instead of a $5000 voucher. Elder will offer $5000 in financial aid. Again, this is only what I've been told.
It would seem if they were willing to offer significant financial aid, then they could have combined that with the voucher money to make it that much more accessible to low income students. Currently the state pays the lesser of $6,000 or the schools full tuition. Even at $6,000 parents have to come up with another $5-6,000, which is probably very difficult for most low income families.
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Old 03-08-17, 09:18 AM
ogealbhain ogealbhain is offline
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Can you turn voucher kids away?
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  #9  
Old 03-08-17, 09:21 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
It would seem if they were willing to offer significant financial aid, then they could have combined that with the voucher money to make it that much more accessible to low income students. Currently the state pays the lesser of $6,000 or the schools full tuition. Even at $6,000 parents have to come up with another $5-6,000, which is probably very difficult for most low income families.
Elder's fin aid is extremely generous. I don't want them taking vouchers bc then you become the state gov't's puppet.
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Old 03-08-17, 09:22 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by ogealbhain View Post
Can you turn voucher kids away?
I'm not sure. My initial thought was no, but if X is taking them, I imagine they have to "pass" the entrance exam.
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Old 03-08-17, 09:26 AM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Originally Posted by ogealbhain View Post
Can you turn voucher kids away?
Yes. The state of Ohio's web site actually instructs parents to apply to the school and wait on admission before applying for the vouchers. Once the student has been accepted the school submits the voucher education on behalf of the student.

.
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Old 03-08-17, 09:34 AM
ogealbhain ogealbhain is offline
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Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
Yes. The state of Ohio's web site actually instructs parents to apply to the school and wait on admission before applying for the vouchers. Once the student has been accepted the school submits the voucher education on behalf of the student.

.
Interesting.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-17, 09:37 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Accepting vouchers wouldn't create this windfall of enrollment and culture problems that everyone thinks. If the admin thinks that, then they must think they're not very good at their jobs, because they would be the stewards of protecting that culture. But it would certainly allow them to grab additional academic and athletic kids to the school.

There are still perceptions of not being accommodating to diversity at the school, as well as these voucher kids taking roster spots and playing time from the traditional feeder kids. These would be two obstacles that would require a lot of work to dismiss...I don't know that they want to tackle them.

Last edited by trey2k; 03-08-17 at 10:09 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-17, 10:10 AM
Visitation_Football Visitation_Football is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
I don't want them taking vouchers bc then you become the state gov't's puppet.
The reality is that is simply not true. The schools are at their own discretion as to who they will accept and how they will be disciplined. I'm not sure where that whole puppet argument came from but there is no truth to it.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:12 AM
Visitation_Football Visitation_Football is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I've been told that Elder explored the option but chooses instead to offer significant and comparable amounts of financial aid. So instead of a $5000 voucher. Elder will offer $5000 in financial aid. Again, this is only what I've been told.
I've been told this as well but the argument has never made any sense to me. If they took vouchers that $5000 financial aid they would get instead is freed up and could be used for other families who wouldn't have the option of applying for a voucher.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:14 AM
Visitation_Football Visitation_Football is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Accepting vouchers wouldn't create this windfall of enrollment and culture problems that everyone thinks.
I agree. It never made much sense to me, especially considering where the school is located and the feeder schools they draw from who also take part in the voucher program. This is yet another example of why there are certain perceptions out there about Elder.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:16 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Visitation_Football View Post
The reality is that is simply not true. The schools are at their own discretion as to who they will accept and how they will be disciplined. I'm not sure where that whole puppet argument came from but there is no truth to it.
How can you take tax payer $ with no strings attached?
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Old 03-08-17, 10:21 AM
Visitation_Football Visitation_Football is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
How can you take tax payer $ with no strings attached?
No idea, but is there even anyone to enforce them if there are? If Moeller and St X have been accepting them for 10 years now when they have no need to, then obviously there aren't any real issues. It's clearly stated the schools are free to use their own discretion when it comes to the voucher program.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:30 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Visitation_Football View Post
I've been told this as well but the argument has never made any sense to me. If they took vouchers that $5000 financial aid they would get instead is freed up and could be used for other families who wouldn't have the option of applying for a voucher.
Would that $5000 in financial aid be there if they accepted vouchers? Would Elder lose out on donor money if they accepted vouchers?

Honestly I think they don't accept vouchers because they don't need to. Enrollment has been steady.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:33 AM
Jteegardner Jteegardner is offline
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I know this will not be very popular but I really don't give a damn. It you really want to send your kids to catholic schools, you will find a way. For 8 years, I worked two jobs so I could send my kids to Visi and Seton. No one gave me sh^t nor did I ask for it.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:42 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Visitation_Football View Post
No idea, but is there even anyone to enforce them if there are? If Moeller and St X have been accepting them for 10 years now when they have no need to, then obviously there aren't any real issues. It's clearly stated the schools are free to use their own discretion when it comes to the voucher program.
I need to do more research but there has to be more to it. The gov't isn't going to give away "free $" without wanting something in return.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:44 AM
CincyHSfootball CincyHSfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
How can you take tax payer $ with no strings attached?
Visi Footballs comments are valid that the school has the discretion regarding admissions and discipline.

The only "strings attached" that I know of is that a religious based school like Elder/Catholic grade schools can not make them take religion classes. There are guidelines what those students can do during those bells.
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Old 03-08-17, 10:48 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by CincyHSfootball View Post
Visi Footballs comments are valid that the school has the discretion regarding admissions and discipline.

The only "strings attached" that I know of is that a religious based school like Elder/Catholic grade schools can not make them take religion classes. There are guidelines what those students can do during those bells.
Last week you said schools couldn't expel voucher students, what changed?
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Old 03-08-17, 10:53 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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And back to the original point, Elder doesn't need the massive amount of voucher kids LS has bc they've got a stronger feeder system. Again, they need maybe 2-3 true studs on top of the feeders in order to win. You can look at the '15 team and say if they had a lockdown Corner, stud pass rusher, and an athletic OLB, they have a chance at a state title. They're not far off, but they need to work harder to get over that hill.
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Old 03-08-17, 11:02 AM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Would that $5000 in financial aid be there if they accepted vouchers? Would Elder lose out on donor money if they accepted vouchers?

Honestly I think they don't accept vouchers because they don't need to. Enrollment has been steady.
Accepting vouchers is not about needing more students. It is about opening your school to those who cannot afford to attend on their own. Do you think St X needs more students?

Why would donors stop contributing to the school if they accepted vouchers?

There seems to be negative connotations from some people towards vouchers. It is my understanding that vouchers are simply a redirect of tax money from a public school to a private school, that allows families who otherwise would have no way to afford a private school to attend one.

I am not suggesting that Elder should accept vouchers, simply pointing out that doing so is less about the need of the school and more about the need of some in the community.

Elder may feel that their financial aid offerings are more than sufficient to allow people from lower income levels to attend Elder. I certainly would not take exception to that mind set
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Old 03-08-17, 11:10 AM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
How can you take tax payer $ with no strings attached?
In 2015 Elder received at least $108,000 in state funds for state mandated administrative purposes (at least thats how I understand it)

http://education.ohio.gov/getattachm...-SCHN.pdf.aspx
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Old 03-08-17, 11:13 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
Accepting vouchers is not about needing more students. It is about opening your school to those who cannot afford to attend on their own.
I would disagree.

In many cases, one of the reasons catholic schools are accepting vouchers is because they need students in the building or they will close.

Lawrence, Holy Family, William, Dominic, etc. are all still around primarily because they accept vouchers. For these and many others, they've been wonderful and saved the schools. Hardly any students in these areas willing/able to pay the actual tuition.

Last edited by PURPLE REIGN; 03-08-17 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 03-08-17, 11:16 AM
CincyHSfootball CincyHSfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Last week you said schools couldn't expel voucher students, what changed?
Where did I say that. Show me.
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Old 03-08-17, 11:31 AM
sbutler sbutler is offline
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[QUOTE=Jteegardner;6720550] It you really want to send your kids to catholic schools, you will find a way.

JT, I would agree with you. But that is also a big part of the whole enrollment problem. Parents these days seem to want to have a bigger house (more toys etc )over sending their kid to Catholic HS.
I ,for one, question myself as to why i sent my kids to Catholic school all of the time. Was it really worth it? Going in debt to send my kids to Grade school and High School. Not having any money to assist them with College. If I were to ask my kids if it was worth it, i believe they would all say yes. But if i were to have a deeper discussion with them about finances, they may see it differently.
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Old 03-08-17, 11:52 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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[QUOTE=sbutler;6720627]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jteegardner View Post
It you really want to send your kids to catholic schools, you will find a way.

JT, I would agree with you. But that is also a big part of the whole enrollment problem. Parents these days seem to want to have a bigger house (more toys etc )over sending their kid to Catholic HS.
I ,for one, question myself as to why i sent my kids to Catholic school all of the time. Was it really worth it? Going in debt to send my kids to Grade school and High School. Not having any money to assist them with College. If I were to ask my kids if it was worth it, i believe they would all say yes. But if i were to have a deeper discussion with them about finances, they may see it differently.
And as the costs continue to escalate, more and more parents are beginning to question this where in the past it felt "worth it".
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