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  #61  
Old 05-04-18, 07:40 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by voiceoreaso View Post
Descartes

You are correct that Elder sports have definitely been sub par. When a kid and his family enroll for Elder they aren't guaranteed by Elder to have good sports. I wouldn't count on Elder administration making any changes. Elder doesn't work that way. I dont see that changing. BTW, I do believe in the next 3-4 years Elder football and basketball will be better.
They don’t “work that way”, but let a kid who violently assaulted a classmate walk on Sr Night and play baseball. You don’t see the hypocrisy? If you’re going to take the “soap box” stance they do, you better apply the rules to EVERYONE, not mostly everyone.

I’m not saying they need to cheat, but they’ve got to market the school to more non feeders. The Feeder system just isn’t very good and you can’t wait for the non feeder kids to come to you, it doesn’t work that way.

Last edited by Descartes; 05-04-18 at 07:53 AM.
  #62  
Old 05-04-18, 07:50 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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And if they have proof other schools are breaking the rules, turn them into the OHSAA. The GCL Brotherhood is a myth, f*** the other schools. The problem is they’ve created a culture of excuse making and you’ll never be successful with that attitude
  #63  
Old 05-04-18, 07:57 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoreaso View Post
Descartes

You are correct that Elder sports have definitely been sub par. When a kid and his family enroll for Elder they aren't guaranteed by Elder to have good sports. I wouldn't count on Elder administration making any changes. Elder doesn't work that way. I dont see that changing. BTW, I do believe in the next 3-4 years Elder football and basketball will be better.
Actually, a large part of why kids and their parents would send their kids there is because of guaranteed athletic success. That's not the case anymore, and one of the reasons why enrollment is down.

I understand there are various reasons to send your kid to Elder, but sports is most definitely a factor in the decision for many families. I'm not sure why people dispute this.

I do agree that the next few years should see some success.

Last edited by trey2k; 05-04-18 at 09:42 AM.
  #64  
Old 05-04-18, 08:31 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Your kid is still riding the bench.
  #65  
Old 05-04-18, 09:07 AM
ElderHSfan02 ElderHSfan02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoreaso View Post
Descartes

You are correct that Elder sports have definitely been sub par. When a kid and his family enroll for Elder they aren't guaranteed by Elder to have good sports. I wouldn't count on Elder administration making any changes. Elder doesn't work that way. I dont see that changing. BTW, I do believe in the next 3-4 years Elder football and basketball will be better.
I think a good sports program helps enrollment numbers. It would be foolish for the admin to ignore what's going on with the athletic program in the big sports. A stretch comparison I know, but there is a reason colleges are willing to lose millions on their athletic programs. Sports can be a reflection good or bad on a school.

Moeller, Lasalle, St. Xavier are doing things legally to improve their sports programs and are kicking Elder's butt. Some fresh ideas would be a step in the right direction. The current status is not good.
  #66  
Old 05-04-18, 10:56 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by ElderHSfan02 View Post
I think a good sports program helps enrollment numbers. It would be foolish for the admin to ignore what's going on with the athletic program in the big sports. A stretch comparison I know, but there is a reason colleges are willing to lose millions on their athletic programs. Sports can be a reflection good or bad on a school.

Moeller, Lasalle, St. Xavier are doing things legally to improve their sports programs and are kicking Elder's butt. Some fresh ideas would be a step in the right direction. The current status is not good.
Again, failure is ok. What’s unacceptable is not learning from that failure. I’ll give credit, there’s a few coaches trying new things to draw in these non feeder kids, but it needs to be a school wide initiative. Anyone who only wants Feeder kids doesn’t care about the school’s survival, they only care about preserving the outdated image of what they think the school should be.

It’s not asking a lot for them to promise the Alumni/fans, that they’ll work to get better. I’m sure they’re not happy with how unsuccessful this athletic yr was, but I need to hear them say it. From my perspective, and a lot of others, it just seems like they don’t care about winning.

They should never give out comped tuition for athletes or show them favored treatment (including Feeder kids with noteable last names). However, you have to reach the kids, bc they’re not going to reach out to you.

Last edited by Descartes; 05-04-18 at 11:09 AM.
  #67  
Old 05-04-18, 01:01 PM
Ehs 2005 Ehs 2005 is offline
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Saw this article today and figured I'd share since it has a refreshingly contrarian outlook on the athletic program and life than that of this thread:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/el...0th-career-win

Quote:
“Sean’s success can be attributed to a lot of things,” Elder Athletic Director Kevin Espelage said. “He is intelligent and very meticulous with offseason training, practice plans and game management. However, his greatest attribute might be his unwavering faith in God. He is a heart transplant survivor. I really can’t put into words how his outlook and approach to life has touched so many lives since 2007.”
Quote:
Every season, a day after the teams are selected, Tierney emphasizes what the priorities should be for each student-athlete. God, family, school and then volleyball are the order.
  #68  
Old 05-04-18, 01:13 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Ehs 2005 View Post
Saw this article today and figured I'd share since it has a refreshingly contrarian outlook on the athletic program and life than that of this thread:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/el...0th-career-win
It’s volleyball. What Coach Tierney has done is great, but it doesn’t let the other sports off the hook. It’s crap like this that gets old, like you can “shame” us into thinking winning 20% of the GCL games in the Big 3 sports is ok as long as you make it about god. GTFOH with that weak garbage.

And god wasn’t too important when they let a violent thug walk for Sr Night and play baseball. I think they must have thought that kid’s dad was god? Seriously, you can win games and still love god, ask every Pro athlete ever.
  #69  
Old 05-04-18, 02:08 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
It’s volleyball. What Coach Tierney has done is great, but it doesn’t let the other sports off the hook. It’s crap like this that gets old, like you can “shame” us into thinking winning 20% of the GCL games in the Big 3 sports is ok as long as you make it about god. GTFOH with that weak garbage.

And god wasn’t too important when they let a violent thug walk for Sr Night and play baseball. I think they must have thought that kid’s dad was god? Seriously, you can win games and still love god, ask every Pro athlete ever.
I've said it to you in PMs already, but you really need to let this go. It's much more pathetic that you keep referencing an incident from several years ago as your 'proof' that the administration doesn't care about doing things the right way. Much more pathetic than your usual rants.
  #70  
Old 05-04-18, 02:12 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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I've said it to you in PMs already, but you really need to let this go. It's much more pathetic that you keep referencing an incident from several years ago as your 'proof' that the administration doesn't care about doing thing the right way. Much more pathetic than your usual rants.
It’s indicative of them bending the rules for certain ppl. If you’re going to be all preachy about “doing things the right way”, then you better start with yourself.


And this is only an incident we know about, imagine all of the other stuff that goes on w/o us knowing.
  #71  
Old 05-04-18, 02:26 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I've been getting yelled at for years saying certain segments get specialized treatment. Yet the guy yelling at me says that certain people get specialized treatment.

Confused.
  #72  
Old 05-04-18, 02:28 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
It’s indicative of them bending the rules for certain ppl. If you’re going to be all preachy about “doing things the right way”, then you better start with yourself.


And this is only an incident we know about, imagine all of the other stuff that goes on w/o us knowing.
And now there's more conspiracy theories.
  #73  
Old 05-04-18, 02:52 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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And now there's more conspiracy theories.
Not to the point of corruption. Point is, you can’t claim to do things the right way after that debacle.
  #74  
Old 05-04-18, 02:54 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Trey, your opinion means nothing. You piggybacked off all my criticisms to build up a case for your kid to get PT. You’re scum.
  #75  
Old 05-04-18, 03:11 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Not to the point of corruption. Point is, you can’t claim to do things the right way after that debacle.
Of course you can. It's called giving the kid a 2nd chance. Not sure why you can't wrap your head around that.
  #76  
Old 05-04-18, 03:12 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Anyway, the Coach Tierney story is a great story. But the sentence after sharing his ideals, it pointed to how much they've won over the last how many years he's been there. Pretty sure that article doesn't get written without the wins.

Both creating a quality person and striving for your best success are important. Both can be achieved - and both are worth striving for. There are plenty of lessons along the way when you win (and lose). But there's also a formula for winning. It's not a given. Pretty sure God wasn't putting in all of that time, energy, and accountability into the off-season volleyball program. He and his staff were - and their success followed. It takes that discipline and investment to compete at the highest level - from everyone.

It's not contradictory to this discussion - it proves it.
  #77  
Old 05-04-18, 03:55 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Of course you can. It's called giving the kid a 2nd chance. Not sure why you can't wrap your head around that.
His 2nd chance was not ending up in jail. Attending Elder and participating in athletics is a privilege. And you’re on drugs if you think that 2nd chance is granted to every student under the same circumstances.

Circling back, this bs excuse they’ve been feeding us about not being able to compete bc they “do things the right way” is a lie. They don’t have a problem breaking that code for someone with the right last name.

Last edited by Descartes; 05-04-18 at 04:07 PM.
  #78  
Old 05-04-18, 03:56 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Trey, nobody GAF what you have to say. Send your kid somewhere else and be done with it.
  #79  
Old 05-04-18, 04:01 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Ehs 2005 View Post
Saw this article today and figured I'd share since it has a refreshingly contrarian outlook on the athletic program and life than that of this thread:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/el...0th-career-win
But seriously this is weak BS. This is the same tactic Mick Cronin used to dodge questions after the Nevada Loss. Nobody is making the claim this is life and death, but it doesn’t absolve you of being held accountable for your failures. You must think I’m some dumb MF’er who can’t see what you’re trying to do.
  #80  
Old 05-04-18, 04:11 PM
ElderHSfan02 ElderHSfan02 is offline
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I'm all for the "real importance" of athletics, but at the same time I think we need to start winning, heck, start competing. Elder has a rich sports history yet here we sit unable to compete with the other 3 big GCL schools. Elder is not adapting to the changing culture. We are digging our own grave here.
  #81  
Old 05-04-18, 04:15 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by ElderHSfan02 View Post
I'm all for the "real importance" of athletics, but at the same time I think we need to start winning, heck, start competing. Elder has a rich sports history yet here we sit unable to compete with the other 3 big GCL schools. Elder is not adapting to the changing culture. We are digging our own grave here.
It’s a total lie that winning and the “real importance” of sports are exclusive. It’s a bs excuse that might work on dumb ppl, but not anyone with a functional brain. Whatever is within the rules, Elder should do. These past 2 athletic seasons have been horrrendous. And that wouldn’t be so bothersome if they had any kind of plan to get better. Instead it’s the same garbage Yr after Yr. It’s not acceptable, and ppl either need to pay closer attention or stop burying their head in the sand.
  #82  
Old 05-04-18, 06:25 PM
bocilevu bocilevu is offline
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Look at how many times you have posted on this board in the last 24 hours. Do you realize that 99% of healthy individuals move on from high school sports when they graduate? I wish you could channel this passion into something that would make the world a better place instead of turning you into a bitter and hateful old man. You can also refrain from private messaging me and calling me names. It just reinforces my opinion.
  #83  
Old 05-04-18, 06:54 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Look at how many times you have posted on this board in the last 24 hours. Do you realize that 99% of healthy individuals move on from high school sports when they graduate? I wish you could channel this passion into something that would make the world a better place instead of turning you into a bitter and hateful old man. You can also refrain from private messaging me and calling me names. It just reinforces my opinion.
What makes Elder unique is the Alumni do care. And I put this same level of energy into everything I do.

A better Athletics program is better for Elder. More students, more donations, it’s simple. You’re one of those buttheads that thinks just because a kid grew up wanting to play for Elder that entitles him to play over some other kid.

The bottom line is the Athletic Program isn’t winning at the level it should be. What life lesson are these kids taught? A 20% success rate is ok if you can make enough excuses?
  #84  
Old 05-05-18, 12:33 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by voiceoreaso View Post
Descartes

You are correct that Elder sports have definitely been sub par. When a kid and his family enroll for Elder they aren't guaranteed by Elder to have good sports. I wouldn't count on Elder administration making any changes. Elder doesn't work that way. I dont see that changing. BTW, I do believe in the next 3-4 years Elder football and basketball will be better.
Football is built to be very good the next few yrs, depending on how the Frosh class pans out. Bball is going to be pretty awful next Yr. 2 yrs from now could be a turning point.

And I wouldn’t count on the Admin making changes by themselves, they’re going to have to be pressured. All you Big swingin’ dik donors need to realize, you’ve wasted a lot of $ on a Program that doesn’t care about winning. If you want to pay for a kid’s Life Lessons, send him to therapy or be a better parent.
  #85  
Old 05-05-18, 12:41 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
And I wouldn’t count on the Admin making changes by themselves, they’re going to have to be pressured. All you Big swingin’ dik donors need to realize, you’ve wasted a lot of $ on a Program that doesn’t care about winning. If you want to pay for a kid’s Life Lessons, send him to therapy or be a better parent.
I hope I live long enough to see the day that PBoy realizes "Big swingin’ dik donors" don't read Yappi.
  #86  
Old 05-05-18, 01:25 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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I hope I live long enough to see the day that PBoy realizes "Big swingin’ dik donors" don't read Yappi.
Are you calling Final Word a liar? Regardless, they should stop wasting $. If Elder wants to put up this “holier than thou” facade as a justification for taking it up the rear in the GCL, they should drop sports and become a Seminary.
  #87  
Old 05-05-18, 03:00 PM
ElderHockeyDad ElderHockeyDad is offline
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Did you happen to notice that Elder baseball won the last two games 10-0 and 11-1? This gives them a record of 17-8. This is .680, better than any National League team. Seems pretty successful to me. But you want Elder to win every game in every sport every day. Ain't going to happen.
  #88  
Old 05-05-18, 03:20 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Did you happen to notice that Elder baseball won the last two games 10-0 and 11-1? This gives them a record of 17-8. This is .680, better than any National League team. Seems pretty successful to me. But you want Elder to win every game in every sport every day. Ain't going to happen.
Both of those teams they beat suck. This is more hyperbolic bs to distract from my point. They still finished Last in the GCL, with a 2-7 record in League play. As it’s been described to me by others, Elder’s “good”, but they’re not GCL good.

3rd place in football, last in bball and baseball is TERRIBLE, stop trying to put any kind of spin on it. Hold the Admin and coaches accountable for their failures.
  #89  
Old 05-05-18, 03:26 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Seriously, if they want to keep preaching about “doing things the right way”, get rid of all of the athletic teams and turn the school into a Seminary. That’s less embarrassing than being the League’s punching bag.

I’ll say it again, if they have proof the other schools are breaking the rules, turn them in. However, if they’re operating within the rules and you happy to find it distasteful, tough tiddies. Step up or step aside. The culture is so bad, you’ve got idiot parents bragging about how the Frosh gave Trinity their closest game, even though they got blown out. Is that what Elder’s about?

Last edited by Descartes; 05-05-18 at 04:53 PM.
  #90  
Old 05-06-18, 08:02 AM
ElderHockeyDad ElderHockeyDad is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Both of those teams they beat suck. This is more hyperbolic bs to distract from my point. They still finished Last in the GCL, with a 2-7 record in League play. As it’s been described to me by others, Elder’s “good”, but they’re not GCL good.

3rd place in football, last in bball and baseball is TERRIBLE, stop trying to put any kind of spin on it. Hold the Admin and coaches accountable for their failures.
So is it you who decides which games "count" when they win or lose? Should they only schedule teams that don't suck so the wins are up to your standards? What if they won the GCL but lost every other non-league game, would that be acceptable for you? Probably not, your standard is they win the state title in every sport each year. And the 99.9% of people who don't agree with that deserve to be called a name. Maybe you should start a campaign to picket and block traffic around the houses of the admin and coaches, that would show them! BTW, you might want to start ripping on the Tennis team, there is no reason they can't win state in a game as easy as hitting the ball over a net.
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