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  #61  
Old 05-31-14, 01:49 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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Originally Posted by Nelson Van Alden View Post
There's diff't degrees of wrong. I'd say covering up child raping for decades is about the largest degree of wrong there is, but apparently the diocese doesn't think it's as bad as supporting your gay child. That makes sense. I know ppl say the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, but doesn't also say people who are left handed are spawns of the devil? A book written thousands of years ago by a grab bag of barely literate men doesn't hold up in modern society with what we know now.

Anyway, don't take my word for it:


http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/30/living...lity/?c&page=2
Please let me know where it says lefties are spawn of the devil. I am glad to have many non-Catholics at Elder. My locker partner freshman year was Jewish and was a great guy.

What's the big deal? We all come up short. We all sin. When one broadcasts that they are living a sin and are proud of it, that is where the Church needs to draw the line. Abusing alcohol is a sin. We have all most likely overdone it at times. Living as a habitual public drunk is a sinful lifestyle which should get you kicked out of teaching at a Catholic school.

Being the parent of a gay child is no problem under the contract. Publicly petitioning for gay marriage is. It is against the teaching of the Church you are supposed to be a minister of.

This has always been the case. The contract changes only one thing. It clarifies matters such that it will avoid costly law suits. As a member of the Catholic community, I appreciate them wanting to cut down on law suits. That is my money they are spending.

I love my gay friends and family. One of my gay cousins does not support gay marriage himself. I have several gay friends who attend Mass on a regular basis. If you do not want to support the teachings of the Catholic Church, in how you present yourself publicly, then you should really look for another job.

Its no big deal. "Thanks for your past service. Sorry you feel the need to publicly flaunt the teachings of the Church. May God bless you and yours. Amen."
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  #62  
Old 05-31-14, 02:17 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
Please let me know where it says lefties are spawn of the devil. I am glad to have many non-Catholics at Elder. My locker partner freshman year was Jewish and was a great guy.

What's the big deal? We all come up short. We all sin. When one broadcasts that they are living a sin and are proud of it, that is where the Church needs to draw the line. Abusing alcohol is a sin. We have all most likely overdone it at times. Living as a habitual public drunk is a sinful lifestyle which should get you kicked out of teaching at a Catholic school.

Being the parent of a gay child is no problem under the contract. Publicly petitioning for gay marriage is. It is against the teaching of the Church you are supposed to be a minister of.

This has always been the case. The contract changes only one thing. It clarifies matters such that it will avoid costly law suits. As a member of the Catholic community, I appreciate them wanting to cut down on law suits. That is my money they are spending.

I love my gay friends and family. One of my gay cousins does not support gay marriage himself. I have several gay friends who attend Mass on a regular basis. If you do not want to support the teachings of the Catholic Church, in how you present yourself publicly, then you should really look for another job.

Its no big deal. "Thanks for your past service. Sorry you feel the need to publicly flaunt the teachings of the Church. May God bless you and yours. Amen."
Pretty absurd if your gay child wants to get married you can't attend the ceremony. If you can go to Elder as non-Catholic, you should be able to teach at the school as a non-Catholic. Last I checked, whether a teacher had a gay son, got pregnant via invitro or was divorced and re-married without an annulment had no impact on how well they taught, math, science, English, etc. The Catholic Church is out of touch. The Bible is mostly fictional stories, it has no place as a moral guide in society. As time evolves, so does society. They probably do think homosexuality was an ungodly abomination when the Bible was written. However, modern science has proven it's a psychological proclivity, which the person does not choose. Pretty absurd to think these people can't act in the way God created them.
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  #63  
Old 05-31-14, 02:31 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Rosen is 100% right. A good man.
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  #64  
Old 05-31-14, 10:32 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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Originally Posted by Nelson Van Alden View Post
Pretty absurd if your gay child wants to get married you can't attend the ceremony. If you can go to Elder as non-Catholic, you should be able to teach at the school as a non-Catholic. Last I checked, whether a teacher had a gay son, got pregnant via invitro or was divorced and re-married without an annulment had no impact on how well they taught, math, science, English, etc. The Catholic Church is out of touch. The Bible is mostly fictional stories, it has no place as a moral guide in society. As time evolves, so does society. They probably do think homosexuality was an ungodly abomination when the Bible was written. However, modern science has proven it's a psychological proclivity, which the person does not choose. Pretty absurd to think these people can't act in the way God created them.
What's absurd is your understanding of Church teachings and the contract. First of all there are no gay weddings in Ohio, so your premise is unreasonable and absurd to begin with. No one is getting kicked out because they have a gay son or get pregnant using invitro. It would never happen. No one would even get kicked out for attending an Ohio gay "commitment ceremony". What they would get kicked out for, would be publicly supporting gay marriage or publicly supporting invitro pregnancies. No one is forcing married couples to announce the manner by which they got pregnant, and, quite frankly, it is no one's business, however, if one chooses to make a public issue of it, in a way contrary to Church teaching, then you are either a activist for a position contrary to the teachings of the Church (your employer) or you are terminally stupid. Either way it would be time to go.

PBoy, you are obviously not Catholic by any reasonable definition and that is ok. I don't dislike you for being a fallen away Catholic, however, there are plenty of other reasons. I believe non-Catholics like you should be welcome at Elder, as long as they do not undermine Church teachings of the Church which is providing the education and maintaining the community they are attempting to be a part of.

Think of it this way, any protestant, Jew or non-believer can apply to attend Elder and would be vary much welcome there. They are not required to follow the Church's teachings in their personal lives, however, if they publicly attempt to undermine the teachings of the Church, then they no longer belong at Elder or any other Catholic institution. What is true for students, should be even more the case for teacher's/ministers, who are charged with and hired to give a living example of leading a Catholic life, regardless as to what subject they are teaching. It really is not that complicated.

Last edited by Purplemojo; 05-31-14 at 10:45 PM.
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  #65  
Old 05-31-14, 10:56 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
What's absurd is your understanding of Church teachings and the contract. First of all there are no gay weddings in Ohio, so your premise is unreasonable and absurd to begin with. No one is getting kicked out because they have a gay son or get pregnant using invitro. It would never happen. No one would even get kicked out for attending an Ohio gay "commitment ceremony". What they would get kicked out for, would be publicly supporting gay marriage or publicly supporting invitro pregnancies. No one is forcing married couples to announce the manner by which they got pregnant, and, quite frankly, it is no one's business, however, if one chooses to make a public issue of it, in a way contrary to Church teaching, then you are either a activist for a position contrary to the teachings of the Church (your employer) or you are terminally stupid. Either way it would be time to go.

PBoy, you are obviously not Catholic by any reasonable definition and that is ok. I don't dislike you for being a fallen away Catholic, however, there are plenty of other reasons. I believe non-Catholics like you should be welcome at Elder, as long as they do not undermine Church teachings of the Church which is providing the education and maintaining the community they are attempting to be a part of.

Think of it this way, any protestant, Jew or non-believer can apply to attend Elder and would be vary much welcome there. They are not required to follow the Church's teachings in their personal lives, however, if they publicly attempt to undermine the teachings of the Church, then they no longer belong at Elder or any other Catholic institution. What is true for students, should be even more the case for teacher's/ministers, who are charged with and hired to give a living example of leading a Catholic life, regardless as to what subject they are teaching. It really is not that complicated.
That's not true. I know of a friend whose aunt is a teacher in the diocese and could not attend her niece's Baptism because the couple were lesbians. And what is considered "public support?" I would think attending any gay function constitutes as public support. It's all right there in Rosen's interview, it's not right what the Diocese is doing. It's even more wrong people will support this simply because they are the Diocese. They're a bunch of clowns using the Catholic faith as a guise for their own personal incompetence. A true person of god understands morality is not black and white. I just can't get over the fact you preach about church teachings, but the cover up is about the most heinous thing there is. Just bc a person dedicates their life to the church doesn't make them a good person. For you guys over 50, what about nuns who would physically beat kids for chewing gum in class or passing notes. You hear these stories and it sounds like these nasty people get a break bc they're nuns or priests. I don't care, in my book if you act that way, you're a terrible person. I remember my principal at Dominic was a nun and she was a mean, bitter hag. Her "nun hood" didn't give her a pass for treating kids in an abrupt and rude manner .

TBH, that's the thing that gets me the most is the complete gall it takes to act like they have any true moral authority. If the diocese had a track record of exemplary Catholic behavior, then I could see their point. However, after the scandal they should just shut their mouths and work on not screwing up.

Last edited by Nelson Van Alden; 06-01-14 at 02:10 AM.
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  #66  
Old 06-01-14, 09:41 AM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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Originally Posted by Nelson Van Alden View Post
TBH, that's the thing that gets me the most is the complete gall it takes to act like they have any true moral authority. If the diocese had a track record of exemplary Catholic behavior, then I could see their point. However, after the scandal they should just shut their mouths and work on not screwing up.
Ok, so because some priests sinned twenty years ago, all of whom have been punished in one way or another, under civil law or the laws of the Church, then the Church has forfeited the right to insist that its own religious institutions and their employees promote the teachings and principles of the Church. Alright, close the doors and sell the schools (including your beloved Elder), churches, hospitals, social service organizations, missions, international relief efforts and everything else the church does, because the faith is no longer, welcome, relevant, or appropriate, due to the fact that time has expired and some people in the Church were down right evil.

It is ok that you abandoned your faith. You do not have to justify it or make excuses for it. Just like you leaving the westside for the eastside, because the westside is just not cool enough for a hipster like you, while always stating your love and support for the neighborhood you abandoned, your support for Elder sports while at the same time undermining its core mission is hypocritical and hollow.

Grow up boy. Find what is important. Do something to help others from time to time.
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  #67  
Old 06-01-14, 10:24 AM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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Ok, so because some priests sinned twenty years ago, all of whom have been punished in one way or another, under civil law or the laws of the Church, then the Church has forfeited the right to insist that its own religious institutions and their employees promote the teachings and principles of the Church. Alright, close the doors and sell the schools (including your beloved Elder), churches, hospitals, social service organizations, missions, international relief efforts and everything else the church does, because the faith is no longer, welcome, relevant, or appropriate, due to the fact that time has expired and some people in the Church were down right evil.

It is ok that you abandoned your faith. You do not have to justify it or make excuses for it. Just like you leaving the westside for the eastside, because the westside is just not cool enough for a hipster like you, while always stating your love and support for the neighborhood you abandoned, your support for Elder sports while at the same time undermining its core mission is hypocritical and hollow.

Grow up boy. Find what is important. Do something to help others from time to time.
I'll address your personal questions via PM. But don't downplay what happened, these guys did the most deplorable thing you can do, and I don't think Kiffy or Stritty saw the inside of a jail, so no, they didn't pay for their sins. And my issue isn't entirely with the faith, it's the Diocese thinking they have a shred of credibility, they simply don't. They had a chance to stop all if this and do the right thing, they didn't. They're just like the admin at Penn State, only on a bigger scale. I don't want the diocese to disband, but they need to go in a corner and shut up. When you cover up what they did, you don't get any moral leverage.
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  #68  
Old 06-01-14, 07:55 PM
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PantherVOR PantherVOR is offline
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Ok, so because some priests sinned twenty years ago, all of whom have been punished in one way or another, under civil law or the laws of the Church, then the Church has forfeited the right to insist that its own religious institutions and their employees promote the teachings and principles of the Church. Alright, close the doors and sell the schools (including your beloved Elder), churches, hospitals, social service organizations, missions, international relief efforts and everything else the church does, because the faith is no longer, welcome, relevant, or appropriate, due to the fact that time has expired and some people in the Church were down right evil.

It is ok that you abandoned your faith. You do not have to justify it or make excuses for it. Just like you leaving the westside for the eastside, because the westside is just not cool enough for a hipster like you, while always stating your love and support for the neighborhood you abandoned, your support for Elder sports while at the same time undermining its core mission is hypocritical and hollow.

Grow up boy. Find what is important. Do something to help others from time to time.
It's not just the priest scandle that makes me question the new teacher contract, in fact that is a completely different subject all together.

There are priests and nuns in the archdiocese that openly support some of the same issues covered in that contract and nothing is done about it. But the archdiocese sees nothing wrong with bullying their lay employees and volunteers. That is the issue I have with the new contract.
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  #69  
Old 06-01-14, 08:00 PM
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PantherVOR PantherVOR is offline
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Not under those circumstances. Pretty obvious he's upset
I agree. Mr. Rosen was visibly upset that he sold out his principles to sign that contract. I really felt bad for Mr Rosen when I saw that clip.
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  #70  
Old 06-01-14, 09:40 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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There are priests and nuns in the archdiocese that openly support some of the same issues covered in that contract and nothing is done about it. But the archdiocese sees nothing wrong with bullying their lay employees and volunteers. That is the issue I have with the new contract.
Not true. The Vatican pushed the Jesuits in line about ten years ago and a doctrinal audit of nuns and sisters has been going on for about four years now. I can't believe you haven't heard about the crackdown on rogue nuns as there has been much press and I even see a few bumper stickers from time to time. A church must protect its orthodoxy or it is not a church at all.
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  #71  
Old 06-01-14, 09:41 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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I agree. Mr. Rosen was visibly upset that he sold out his principles to sign that contract. I really felt bad for Mr Rosen when I saw that clip.
I saw this on FB from Mrs Rosen, sums everything up perfectly:

"I am speaking for MYSELF. I retired from teaching in Catholic schools in 2011. I don't think the "legalese" of the contract should be on the shoulders of the teachers. In all the years I taught in Catholic schools (more than 35), I was never asked to initial specific behaviors in a contract signing. I devoted my life and almost lost my health mentoring, caring, MINISTERING, and giving my all to my students. Now that I'm old and my students reveal to me on Facebook what they most remember about me, it turns out to be my smile and the fact that I was interested in them. I'm thinking that must be "support"! Not knowing what can constitute "support" is troubling. I was happy to give up the role of "marketer" when I left teaching because I was never and will never be a "marketer". I don't remember ever feeling that my role was that of lawyer while teaching. I was never and will never be a lawyer. I was a minister and a teacher and, I hope, a kind person in the life of many students. I tried every day to treat each student with kindness and understanding. I would have gladly put my initials next to that mandated behavior in my contract. Why isn't that demanded of our teachers when they sign their contracts?"
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  #72  
Old 06-01-14, 09:44 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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I don't want the diocese to disband, but they need to go in a corner and shut up.
Yes, just as I had thought, you want the Church to cease being a church. No preaching, no dogma, no principles, just schools and football. How very sad.
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  #73  
Old 06-01-14, 10:30 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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Yes, just as I had thought, you want the Church to cease being a church. No preaching, no dogma, no principles, just schools and football. How very sad.
They have no credibility to preach. Just bc they're the dioceses means nothing. Actions speak louder than words. I find few things sadder than protecting child rapists for decades. IMO, they need to put in 30-40 yrs of scandal free work before any Catholic with a mind of their own listens to them. I'd personally be ok with just schools and football, Elder is what is bc of the students, faculty, alumni, not bc of the diocese. A lot of the times they're nothing more than shakedown artists, any donation Elder gets, the diocese wants a piece of, like kicking money up the chain to Tony Soprano. I have nothing against the faith itself, but the people running the show dilute the true meaning of being a Catholic.

I guarantee you, the majority of faculty and alumni either don't agree with this contract, and I do not believe the Pope himself would agree to the contract or the tactics being used, reeks of bullying. Again, the signing of this contract reminds me of the scene in Goodfellas where they twist the guys arm behind his back until he signs over his store. Signing this piece of paper is not a show of support, it's out of fear of losing your livliehood.
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  #74  
Old 06-02-14, 04:56 AM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Yes, just as I had thought, you want the Church to cease being a church. No preaching, no dogma, no principles, just schools and football. How very sad.
The really sad part is that a lot of people on here arguing against the Teacher contract believe this. What they don't realize with out the church teaching, Elder will turn into just another public school.
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  #75  
Old 06-02-14, 07:37 AM
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Not true. The Vatican pushed the Jesuits in line about ten years ago and a doctrinal audit of nuns and sisters has been going on for about four years now. I can't believe you haven't heard about the crackdown on rogue nuns as there has been much press and I even see a few bumper stickers from time to time. A church must protect its orthodoxy or it is not a church at all.
You can believe this if you want to. And it's not just the Jesuits...........
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  #76  
Old 06-02-14, 09:18 AM
Don Flamenco Don Flamenco is offline
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Elder is what is bc of the students, faculty, alumni, not bc of the diocese. A lot of the times they're nothing more than shakedown artists, any donation Elder gets, the diocese wants a piece of, like kicking money up the chain to Tony Soprano..
I have to agree completely with this part. All they seem to do anymore is take from the schools, especially the few left out there who are still in good shape for reasons that have nothing to do with the Archdiocese.
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Old 06-02-14, 10:18 AM
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There are many things over the past 40 years that the Archdiocese has done for good Catholics to be critical about, but this contract is not one of them. The people complaining are all either fallen away Catholics, or cafeteria Catholics. People want the name Catholic, but don't want to live Catholic lives in all things.
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Old 06-02-14, 10:56 AM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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There are many things over the past 40 years that the Archdiocese has done for good Catholics to be critical about, but this contract is not one of them. The people complaining are all either fallen away Catholics, or cafeteria Catholics. People want the name Catholic, but don't want to live Catholic lives in all things.
Then the majority of people in the Elder community are cafeteria catholics. Only you, PM, and V&R are in support of it, at least on here. I can tell you the majority of people I know outside of here are against it as well. If you want to apply these standards to people who teach Religion classes, I could see that, as you expect them above everyone else to uphold the traditional Catholic beliefs. However, if you can attend Elder as a non-Catholic, you should be able to teach as a non-Catholic. Do you really think any decent science teacher believes in Creationism? Hell no.
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Old 06-02-14, 11:10 AM
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Then the majority of people in the Elder community are cafeteria catholics. Only you, PM, and V&R are in support of it, at least on here. I can tell you the majority of people I know outside of here are against it as well. If you want to apply these standards to people who teach Religion classes, I could see that, as you expect them above everyone else to uphold the traditional Catholic beliefs. However, if you can attend Elder as a non-Catholic, you should be able to teach as a non-Catholic. Do you really think any decent science teacher believes in Creationism? Hell no.
100% agree.
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Old 06-02-14, 11:16 AM
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So to be a decent science teacher one has to believe in Evolution Theory? What a bunch of bull!
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Old 06-02-14, 11:29 AM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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However, if you can attend Elder as a non-Catholic, you should be able to teach as a non-Catholic.
Does the contract say you cannot teach at Elder if you're not Catholic? Or does it say you cannot teach and advocate for positions contrary to those of the Roman Catholic church?
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  #82  
Old 06-02-14, 12:12 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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So to be a decent science teacher one has to believe in Evolution Theory? What a bunch of bull!
To answer your question, yes. Evolution isn't meant to disprove the existence of god, but it's scientifically proven.
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Old 06-02-14, 12:30 PM
Don Flamenco Don Flamenco is offline
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Does the contract say you cannot teach at Elder if you're not Catholic? Or does it say you cannot teach and advocate for positions contrary to those of the Roman Catholic church?
This is the key difference some people are missing on here. This is the problem I have with some of these "teachers" who are causing all the problems (ie the Purcell teachers and the HF teacher). It's pretty apparent based on interviews and such that they were using their teaching profession as a platform to push their own private agenda and beliefs (which go against catholic teachings), onto the students. That absolutely should not be allowed IMO.
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Old 06-02-14, 01:20 PM
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To answer your question, yes. Evolution isn't meant to disprove the existence of god, but it's scientifically proven.
Just a few catholic priest/scientist from history, wouldn't mind them teaching my kids science. probable weren't evolutionist wouldn't have cut it for you I guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...0%93scientists

I guess you probably think that the Dark Ages were terrible also.

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Old 06-02-14, 02:27 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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That's not true. I know of a friend whose aunt is a teacher in the diocese and could not attend her niece's Baptism because the couple were lesbians.
Another wild story that does not hold up in the hysteria against the contract. OK so this child is being baptized. Was it a Catholic parish at which the baptism was going to take place? If it was, then how can a person be punished for attending a sacramental occasion sanctioned by the Church? Even if it were not Catholic but still Christian (Mormons are not considered "Christians" for baptismal purposes) then it is a bonafide sacrament accepted and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church. Also, if at a Catholic parish or any other Christian church, such an event is always open to the faithful at large. We do not allow secret baptisms just as the Church does no allow secret weddings.

By the way, no child would ever be denied baptism due to the manner by which they come into this world.

Finally, can I ask how anyone would know:

a) the child's parents were a lesbian couple
b) that the child was being baptized
c) who attended the baptism

unless they were told by this "aunt" herself.

So, to be true, this friend of your's aunt would have had to announce to everyone that 1) she had a lesbian sister, 2) who was having a baby with her lesbian partner, 3) that the child was going to be baptized and 4) that she was threatening to attend the baptism no matter what her superiors (who would not have known any of this information to begin with had this "aunt" not decided to share it, for no apparent reason except to make a statement) said. You would also then have to believe that the Church, which sanctions the very baptism itself, would then bar people from attending the very act they were sanctioning.

Please, please, please, give us the name of the school or parish so that we can get the real scoop. Either it is totally bogus (which is my suspicion) or this woman went way overboard in making the matter a cause celebre.

This is the kind of made-up BS people come up with to support their position.
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  #86  
Old 06-02-14, 02:31 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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Join Date: 11-13-11
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Posts: 13,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
Another wild story that does not hold up in the hysteria against the contract. OK so this child is being baptized. Was it a Catholic parish at which the baptism was going to take place? If it was, then how can a person be punished for attending a sacramental occasion sanctioned by the Church? Even if it were not Catholic but still Christian (Mormons are not considered "Christians" for baptismal purposes) then it is a bonafide sacrament accepted and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church. Also, if at a Catholic parish or any other Christian church, such an event is always open to the faithful at large. We do not allow secret baptisms just as the Church does no allow secret weddings.

By the way, no child would ever be denied baptism due to the manner by which they come into this world.

Finally, can I ask how anyone would know:

a) the child's parents were a lesbian couple
b) that the child was being baptized
c) who attended the baptism

unless they were told by this "aunt" herself.

So, to be true, this friend of your's aunt would have had to announce to everyone that 1) she had a lesbian sister, 2) who was having a baby with her lesbian partner, 3) that the child was going to be baptized and 4) that she was threatening to attend the baptism no matter what her superiors (who would not have known any of this information to begin with had this "aunt" not decided to share it, for no apparent reason except to make a statement) said. You would also then have to believe that the Church, which sanctions the very baptism itself, would then bar people from attending the very act they were sanctioning.

Please, please, please, give us the name of the school or parish so that we can get the real scoop. Either it is totally bogus (which is my suspicion) or this woman went way overboard in making the matter a cause celebre.

This is the kind of made-up BS people come up with to support their position.
I can't say I know the church. I believe her fear was social media photos showing her at the event. It alludes to the very vague definition of "support."
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  #87  
Old 06-02-14, 06:53 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Join Date: 08-13-08
Posts: 2,064
Vincent and Regina is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideline89 View Post
There are many things over the past 40 years that the Archdiocese has done for good Catholics to be critical about, but this contract is not one of them. The people complaining are all either fallen away Catholics, or cafeteria Catholics. People want the name Catholic, but don't want to live Catholic lives in all things.
Best post on this thread. The Archdiocese is not perfect, but this isn't one of the things they have screwed up.
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  #88  
Old 06-02-14, 06:57 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Join Date: 08-13-08
Posts: 2,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplemojo View Post
Another wild story that does not hold up in the hysteria against the contract. OK so this child is being baptized. Was it a Catholic parish at which the baptism was going to take place? If it was, then how can a person be punished for attending a sacramental occasion sanctioned by the Church? Even if it were not Catholic but still Christian (Mormons are not considered "Christians" for baptismal purposes) then it is a bonafide sacrament accepted and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church. Also, if at a Catholic parish or any other Christian church, such an event is always open to the faithful at large. We do not allow secret baptisms just as the Church does no allow secret weddings.

By the way, no child would ever be denied baptism due to the manner by which they come into this world.

Finally, can I ask how anyone would know:

a) the child's parents were a lesbian couple
b) that the child was being baptized
c) who attended the baptism

unless they were told by this "aunt" herself.

So, to be true, this friend of your's aunt would have had to announce to everyone that 1) she had a lesbian sister, 2) who was having a baby with her lesbian partner, 3) that the child was going to be baptized and 4) that she was threatening to attend the baptism no matter what her superiors (who would not have known any of this information to begin with had this "aunt" not decided to share it, for no apparent reason except to make a statement) said. You would also then have to believe that the Church, which sanctions the very baptism itself, would then bar people from attending the very act they were sanctioning.

Please, please, please, give us the name of the school or parish so that we can get the real scoop. Either it is totally bogus (which is my suspicion) or this woman went way overboard in making the matter a cause celebre.

This is the kind of made-up BS people come up with to support their position.
Facts and Reason won't work on him.
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  #89  
Old 06-02-14, 07:35 PM
ElderHockeyDad ElderHockeyDad is offline
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Join Date: 09-15-03
Location: Delhi
Posts: 120
ElderHockeyDad
Since we are keeping count, I 100% agree with the contract. My wife signed it with no issues.
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  #90  
Old 06-02-14, 08:34 PM
Purplemojo Purplemojo is offline
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Join Date: 11-20-08
Posts: 3,314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderHockeyDad View Post
Since we are keeping count, I 100% agree with the contract. My wife signed it with no issues.
Oh, but what about your wife's cousin's college roomate who has the gay sister that you ran into at the grocery store and you got a can of beans off the top shelf for her vertically challenged lesbian partner. Would that be support of the gay agenda? That is how silly some of these arguments are.
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