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  #1  
Old 02-07-16, 02:41 PM
long time coach long time coach is offline
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Winning/Runner Up in the State with only 1 or 2 athletes?

Does anyone know if a school having only 1 or 2 athletes competing in the State Track & Field Championships either Won or took home the Runner Up trophy. I think Warren JFK had two athletes and won Division III last Spring.

What others and the year?
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  #2  
Old 02-07-16, 07:32 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Gilmour in 1971 won the AA state title with one athlete, Eric Penick in the 100,220, and 440. In 1999 or 2000, Lorain Clearview won the D3 with two athletes they ran the sprints and maybe the 110 hurdles.
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  #3  
Old 02-07-16, 09:57 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is offline
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Ryan Wilson at Westerville North in the mid-late 90's? The meet was still in Ohio Stadium. I can't recall if the team won or were second.
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Old 02-07-16, 10:37 PM
tmk tmk is offline
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Trotwood Madison did it twice (1983-84) behind Olympic silver medalist Lavonna Martin. (100 H, 300 H, 200, and a runner up in the 100 in '84)

Pettisville also, in 1991 with Lincoln Cobb (100, LJ, 2nd in the 200)
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Old 02-08-16, 05:38 AM
effit effit is offline
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Houston was runner-up in 92 girls D3.

Stacy Ritter finished 2nd in the 100m, and won the 200m and long jump.
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Old 02-08-16, 07:29 AM
ENA ENA is offline
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include Sara DeWolfe from Ayersville in the group.

there have been quiet a few, but the Difference is that most of these did have more on the "team" Than Lorain Clearview (in 01 I think) and JFK last year. Each of these teams had less thatn 9 on their roster, so did not classify as having a track "team".
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Old 02-08-16, 08:44 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Not sure if '95 Woodridge girls had 9. I recall 8, but they might have had one or two others. I do know they finished most if not all dual meets in the same place they finished at the state meet.
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Old 02-08-16, 09:25 AM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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I, remember competing against the 1971 Gilmour team, that had a good 2 miler and without a doubt they had a full track squad...
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  #9  
Old 02-09-16, 03:48 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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What is the point of this thread?
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  #10  
Old 02-09-16, 07:17 AM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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I don't know what the point is but the irony of OHSAA giving a TEAM trophy to a school that OHSAA says does not have a team is beautiful.
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  #11  
Old 02-10-16, 04:16 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
I don't know what the point is but the irony of OHSAA giving a TEAM trophy to a school that OHSAA says does not have a team is beautiful.
I agree. I actually would like to see them say- 'if you can't field a full team then your points don't count.'

It's similar to the old college football mythical national championship. Let's vote on the best team. In track the state meet is not a true state championship.

I have always felt they should take the 16 TEAM District Champions from each division and have a TRUE state meet for them. Where every team can enter 2 kids. The score would be completely different, but would point to a true team rather than 1-5 studs.
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Old 02-10-16, 05:14 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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^^^nice idea.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-16, 09:35 PM
CC34 CC34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
I agree. I actually would like to see them say- 'if you can't field a full team then your points don't count.'

It's similar to the old college football mythical national championship. Let's vote on the best team. In track the state meet is not a true state championship.

I have always felt they should take the 16 TEAM District Champions from each division and have a TRUE state meet for them. Where every team can enter 2 kids. The score would be completely different, but would point to a true team rather than 1-5 studs.
Not sure I understand your point system.

Couldn't you win a district with four sprinters or four distance runners.

With four people on a team you could fill most events. Add a few big kids for throws and you are almost there. They might be very talented and win, but the team is still small.

They could compete in events they were very good at and in events they were terrible in, at the state meet, because the team qualified.

Not sure if this is what you want to see at a team state meet.


This might be tough on a tiny DIII. You might have enough for one in each event, but two?

Can you really make it like CC, where individuals go AND teams?? The individuals in track might beat the teams in points.

Or do you mean separate meets? (team and individual-like wrestling) Now you really do have state(s)

Would this be hard on distance kids, to have two tournament meets to run in during the season? Could you qualify/win in both?

Can you explain your idea a bit more.

Last edited by CC34; 02-10-16 at 09:53 PM..
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  #14  
Old 02-10-16, 10:32 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Yeah, the state meet is a true championship. If it isn't, then every invitational we all go to is not a true track meet. Every single team in the state starts at the District meet (prelims) then they qualify through to the Regionals (Semi's) then onto the State (Finals)

So, you honestly don't think that the team of 1-5 studs will not also do well? Do just a little bit of research and you will find that the teams that finish high at the State Finals most often finish high at their Regional and Districts.

That little team from JFK was second in their Regional to Maplewood by only 4. and were 3rd by only 1 at the District. Their studs were that good.
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  #15  
Old 02-11-16, 10:02 AM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Actually I, have never given it a lot of thought about the number of athletes that are on a track team. Now, if I had to choose between having the JFK team of the last two seasons and 60 to 70 athletes who are competing to fulfill a PE requirement. Give me the Zallow brothers and company anytime.
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  #16  
Old 02-11-16, 10:13 AM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Please answer this: How can OHSAA tell a school they don't have a track team if they have fewer than 9 athletes but they can still win the state team championship???

If they don't enter 9 at district they are not a team. That's it. No team. They should not win any team trophy from that point forward.
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  #17  
Old 02-11-16, 10:24 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvctrackfan View Post
Actually I, have never given it a lot of thought about the number of athletes that are on a track team. Now, if I had to choose between having the JFK team of the last two seasons and 60 to 70 athletes who are competing to fulfill a PE requirement. Give me the Zallow brothers and company anytime.
And you can't complain when your 6 state qualifying athletes are beaten by 3 with only 2 scoring. Maplewood had a team there that could have beaten JFK, but JFK got it done.

We got beat by a team that qualified less guys than we did. But we had our chances to beat them. More places to score than they did.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-16, 10:34 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
Please answer this: How can OHSAA tell a school they don't have a track team if they have fewer than 9 athletes but they can still win the state team championship???

If they don't enter 9 at district they are not a team. That's it. No team. They should not win any team trophy from that point forward.
just like in basketball, you have to have 5 on a team. If a player fouls out and you only have 4 left....shouldnt you have to forfeit the game right there?
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  #19  
Old 02-11-16, 12:21 PM
Altor Altor is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
just like in basketball, you have to have 5 on a team. If a player fouls out and you only have 4 left....shouldnt you have to forfeit the game right there?
Nope. I've watched games where the team with eight players had four foul out. They played the last minute with four players.
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  #20  
Old 02-11-16, 01:48 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Pyschodad, the year before we also got beat by Lima CC with 4 athletes scoring, we had 10 events...another time we had 4 athletes and won the whole thing...it will be what it will be....once in XC we only had 7 athletes running.....oops that's another story......
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  #21  
Old 02-11-16, 02:19 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
just like in basketball, you have to have 5 on a team. If a player fouls out and you only have 4 left....shouldnt you have to forfeit the game right there?
No. You started the game with a team.

We can't get a 4th division because OHSAA won't count hundreds of teams that don't have 9 athletes at district but any one of those are eligible to win the TEAM state title.

I give up.
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  #22  
Old 02-11-16, 05:42 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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A representative of The National Federation of High School Associations in Indianapolis told me they leave the requirement for determining the number of athletes on a team up to each State Association.

Representatives from Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan and West Virginia high school associations told me since 1 athlete can score and have a team score they only require 1 athlete for their association to count that school has having a track & field program.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-16, 08:03 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
No. You started the game with a team.

We can't get a 4th division because OHSAA won't count hundreds of teams that don't have 9 athletes at district but any one of those are eligible to win the TEAM state title.

I give up.
So, why get on the OHSAA? I disagree that 9 is the number that should be used as the number, but that's the number. Get upset with the schools/coaches that don't get 9 to the District. There are teams that I know have 9 kids that just decide not to take 9 to the District. If that is the case, they don't deserve to be counted as a team. It's up to the coaches association to impress upon coaches that it's important to be counted as a team. Even Warren JFK had 7 at the District. Take 2 more kids and have one run down the LJ runway 3 times. Knock the bar off the HJ 3 times. JFK also only has like 200 kids in the school boys and girls. How about giving the OHSAA some credit here for not being jerks about not letting a team with less than 9 at the District count in the state finals like some here are proposing.

So, we either get 9 to the District meet, or come up with a well thought out proposal and argument of why it should be 1 or 4 or 5 or whatever and have a solid proposal on how Districts, Regionals and the State Meet will be handled so as to not add cost and hassle. Then, we need to get ENA to get it pushed through.
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  #24  
Old 02-12-16, 10:21 AM
ENA ENA is offline
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There are, indeed, many schools who have 9 or more kids on their roster, but chose to enter less than 9 at the district. there are various reasons for this.
-some schools only have the coaching contract/season through the league meet or to a certain date in mid may. So only kids that can advance go or, sadly, no one goes.
-some coaches feel putting in "lower level" kids in will embarrass them (or the coach)
-some schools do not want to get a bus (cost) for kids that have no chance to move on. So only "good" kids get out of school and take a van to save money.
-Some coaches have no idea that this is the rule, so they only take kids with a chance to score or move on.
-Some kid's do not want to go to districts (or even conference) as they are only doing track to fulfill a PE waiver.

I have heard of all of these "excuses" for not having 9 at Districts.

Another problem is that many schools just do not have the kids. Two schools in our district only graduate 20 or so kids a year, so if they have 6 guys (or girls) on the team, that is 15% of the possible kids...if the school has a softball/baseball team then it's more like 50% of available kids and the coach should be commended. I know Heritage Christian is just trying to get some kids going and their 6 girls considered themselves a track TEAM last year and they were at the district and should be encouraged.

I'm not sure I like being known as a "pusher".... but I guess it's better than a "user". I may try to write a proposal to use the number that are on the eligibility forms that the OHSAA makes us fill out. Why do we need to fill this out, if we are not using them? But I would think that another number could be used. I like 4 or 5.
4 because it takes 4 to make a relay TEAM and enter a majority of events
5 because that's how many you need to enter most of the events and potentially win a dual meet (I think)

Still, if a team has 100 kids on the team, 30 are entered at the District, 15 advance to State, one can win 4 events and be the only scorer at State and the 40 points will likely earn a TEAM trophy.

I will work on a proposal to both move the number for considering a school (boys or girls program) to have a Track & Field TEAM From 9 to 4 AND to have that number taken from the eligibility sheet instead of the participants at Districts.
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  #25  
Old 02-12-16, 11:25 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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You need 4 to win a Dual meet. 68.5 points can't lose.
(13 individual events = 117 points) + (4 relays =20) total 137 points/2 = 68.5 points. 3 athletes can score 60 points max, so you need 4 to be able to win the meet. To me, that is a track team.


You need 7 to cover every event except the pole vault. (Some schools do not contest it.)


8 to cover every single event.

1 to win the state meet or any hugely large invitational.

5 to have a pick up basketball game with another team.
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  #26  
Old 02-13-16, 06:52 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
So, why get on the OHSAA? I disagree that 9 is the number that should be used as the number, but that's the number. Get upset with the schools/coaches that don't get 9 to the District. There are teams that I know have 9 kids that just decide not to take 9 to the District. If that is the case, they don't deserve to be counted as a team. It's up to the coaches association to impress upon coaches that it's important to be counted as a team. Even Warren JFK had 7 at the District. Take 2 more kids and have one run down the LJ runway 3 times. Knock the bar off the HJ 3 times. JFK also only has like 200 kids in the school boys and girls. How about giving the OHSAA some credit here for not being jerks about not letting a team with less than 9 at the District count in the state finals like some here are proposing.

So, we either get 9 to the District meet, or come up with a well thought out proposal and argument of why it should be 1 or 4 or 5 or whatever and have a solid proposal on how Districts, Regionals and the State Meet will be handled so as to not add cost and hassle. Then, we need to get ENA to get it pushed through.
I don't care what the number is but if OHSAA says you don't have a team then you should not be able to score team points. What is so difficult about that?
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Old 02-13-16, 08:52 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
I don't care what the number is but if OHSAA says you don't have a team then you should not be able to score team points. What is so difficult about that?
Because no matter what you do short of not letting the kids participate at the District level to start with, every kid that is good enough to score points will affect the team score and have an impact on crowning the state champions.

So, because of some number that has been assigned as a technicality or book keeping item, you think kids should be harmed by it?

What is difficult about it is that it makes no sense to punish kids/schools that are already at a disadvantage because of an accounting method.

After the District meet more teams than not are cut down to below the 9 man team number. Each year, there are under a handful of schools that actually qualify at least 9 to the state meet per gender per division. The State meet would suck if only the teams that qualified 9 kids to it could contend. And, you are at am advantage if you come out of a weaker Region.

I personally think top athletes should determine the state champions.
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  #28  
Old 02-17-16, 02:39 PM
the123kidz the123kidz is offline
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In the late 1990's I believe LeBrea won the state title and Bobby Cruse was the only participant that qualified for the state meet.
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