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  #1  
Old 10-03-16, 06:24 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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How Many Athletes are Needed for a Track & Field Team?

How Many Athletes are Needed for a Track & Field Team?
http://runohio.com/index.php/feature...k-a-field-team
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  #2  
Old 10-04-16, 11:07 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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This wont change until the OHSAA has people making decisions in Columbus that are pro track
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  #4  
Old 10-04-16, 07:34 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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The proposal made by the coaches association was for up to 6 divisions
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  #5  
Old 10-04-16, 08:38 PM
long time coach long time coach is offline
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Do you really think they will go to 6 Division? 4 Divisions is a realistic proposal...
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  #6  
Old 10-04-16, 09:00 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by long time coach View Post
Do you really think they will go to 6 Division? 4 Divisions is a realistic proposal...
If you were in the room when the proposal was done you would see that the ohsaa loses money on 4 divisions. 5 divisions isn't much better.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-16, 09:11 PM
long time coach long time coach is offline
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No I was not in any room when this was discussed - So 6 is Better?!

In my opinion it would be hard to turn down 4.

Does the OHSAA make money in other Championships - field hockey, swimming, golf??
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  #8  
Old 10-04-16, 09:47 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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I really don't see a problem keeping it at 3 divisions.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-16, 06:04 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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If the ohsaa needed to make money one on track and field, it could and would.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-16, 06:41 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by long time coach View Post
Do you really think they will go to 6 Division? 4 Divisions is a realistic proposal...
I've heard of the 6 division proposal, but am I a fan? I am all for making the state meet more competitive and more profit. I like what they are doing for cross country this year. It makes dollar sense and brings more bodies into the state meet. With all of the mega meets throughout the state.... a 16 team state meet is a very small meet for many teams.

For track 6 divisions seems like they are bulging from the waist instead of bulging into the correct direction of making money. I would think that opening up the state meet for more earlier rounds in the sprints would make money. I would also be in favor of expanding the state meet in the 1600 to 27- 3 per lane and 36 in the 3200 with two cut lines. I believe this would allow for $$ to rise without more time and money in other areas.

If the state truly wants to make more money without expanding the divisions or the time schedule more, I would think expanding the distance races would be easiest. Next on the list would to expand the relays. It would be very easy to put in a Distance Medley and/or shuttle hurdle race at the state meet.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-16, 07:14 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
I really don't see a problem keeping it at 3 divisions.
the proposal highlighted that the ohio school kids have the smallest % of a chance to qualify for the state meet. Ohio ranks in the top 5 in kids participating but we are 48th of 50 states in participating at the state level. That is ridiculous. Even with 6 divisions Ohio doesnt move into the top 20 states in the % of runners at the state meet.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-16, 11:16 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Do they consider the district and regionAL as part of the state tournament?

I never walk away from the state meet thinking it could have been better if only more kids were there. I don't even give a thought to that good 5th place kid at the regional sitting it out.

I would like to see a 4th division. I think that's fair. I don't know howhy yet, but I'd like to see more time between distance events to allow more doubles and tripples, but not sure it's realistic. Would not hurt my feelings to lose the 4x200...I can't stand that race.
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  #13  
Old 10-05-16, 12:18 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Do they consider the district and regionAL as part of the state tournament?

I never walk away from the state meet thinking it could have been better if only more kids were there. I don't even give a thought to that good 5th place kid at the regional sitting it out.

I would like to see a 4th division. I think that's fair. I don't know howhy yet, but I'd like to see more time between distance events to allow more doubles and tripples, but not sure it's realistic. Would not hurt my feelings to lose the 4x200...I can't stand that race.
HaHa. Agree 100%. They should have dropped the girls 4x200 when they added girls pole vault. The last thing we needed was another sprint event.
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  #14  
Old 10-05-16, 01:16 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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I like the 4*200, I along with many track enthusiasts that I know,love the 4*200. Between that and the 4*400, but yeah. And most of the guys that I know run it say it's their favorite event as well. Naw, if I could have one entry on my wish list, I'd just like to see a slight change in the order of events in track. Most of it centers around the 300Hurdles/400, and how those events probably shouldn't be right next to each other, because think about it, for smaller teams with less depth, especially in d2, and d3, 300m hurdle guys also suffice quite well for 400's and vice versa. But they are hurt by having one right after the other so oftentimes, they are forced to choose one event over the other. So I would propose switching the 300m hurdles with the 110 hurdles. I know, in track, not everyones gonna be pleased, but this is such a minor change imho, and one that would probably improve the sport overall. I can't think of how this might hurt very many people, The only possible point of conflict I could see is a 4*800m runner also doing 300 hurdles, plausible, but he could just as easily run the 1st or second leg of the relay anyways, no harm, no foul, it's win/win.

Not complaining of course, I'm not that invested in one side or the other on this, just if there was a change I wouldn't mind seeing, this would be my suggestion, that's all.

Last edited by CoventryTrackXCguy; 10-05-16 at 01:33 PM..
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  #15  
Old 10-05-16, 01:45 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
the proposal highlighted that the ohio school kids have the smallest % of a chance to qualify for the state meet. Ohio ranks in the top 5 in kids participating but we are 48th of 50 states in participating at the state level. That is ridiculous. Even with 6 divisions Ohio doesnt move into the top 20 states in the % of runners at the state meet.
I agree with Psychodad, how many states have a 3 tiered system, of everyone races at districts (well top two per school), top 4 to regionals, top 4 from regionals to states? And each of those levels have prelims/finals. So, while it is tougher to get to states in Ohio, it is far easier to advance at least to somewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that many states, In order to qualify to states, you have to run a qualifying time/reach a qualifying mark at a district meet or even just throughout the season, and that's how you go. If you aren't quite state caliber, see you again next year. Here it's simple. You advance by simply beating enough people in your own race. It's more graduated. Places are all that matters, not times. I quite like the status quo. Although I might be ok with 4 divisions. But no more than that.
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  #16  
Old 10-05-16, 03:33 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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I would like to see a 4th division for Track (and CC) but make the 4th division just be the top 100 or so schools (same idea they do with football) and then divide the remaining schools by 3. This would help balance out the number of participating athletes in each division. I would also be ok with something along the lines of 100 in D1, 150 in D2, 225 in D3 and rest in D4.
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  #17  
Old 10-05-16, 07:44 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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The biggest difficulty with 4 divisions in track and putting the really big schools in a division of like 50 to 100 is that the really big schools are bunched and putting together the district /regional /state format will be very difficult.

And I'm not sure, but this might be the first time yj_runfan and I have agreed on anything. Not often anyway. But come on, who wants to watch a race where the stagger is 100 meters and you have no idea who is in any place at any point? Worst race on the track.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-16, 08:05 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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I am not a fan of the 4x2.

The problem with 4 divisions is that the state meet can't be 2 days. Renting Jesse Owen's and hiring officials for 3 days loses the money.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-16, 05:24 AM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Six divisions? Why stop there? Let's do 250 divisions. Then we can guarantee EVERYONE will get a trophy!

In all seriousness, let's do away with the 4x2. Stupid race.

I wouldn't mind putting the 3200 on Friday night as it would open up the 3200-1600 double a bit more, but in the end it probably wouldn't benefit that many kids and for the smaller schools it would often hurt their 4x8 team.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-16, 07:51 AM
madman madman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
The biggest difficulty with 4 divisions in track and putting the really big schools in a division of like 50 to 100 is that the really big schools are bunched and putting together the district /regional /state format will be very difficult.

And I'm not sure, but this might be the first time yj_runfan and I have agreed on anything. Not often anyway. But come on, who wants to watch a race where the stagger is 100 meters and you have no idea who is in any place at any point? Worst race on the track.
In the early 80s when I started coaching in Michigan, the 4x200 was run with a 2-turn stagger and I loved it - it was like a 4x4 only faster. The 4-turn stagger is stupid.
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  #21  
Old 10-06-16, 08:11 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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It's probably been 10 years or so now, but I had a JH meet on a limestone track where they didn't paint starting lines or exchange zones for either a three or four turn stagger. I tried to explain to the kids how the exchange zones worked for the 4x2 (3rd runner can cut, 3rd exchange would be California). They didn't get it.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-16, 08:24 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
I like the 4*200, I along with many track enthusiasts that I know,love the 4*200. Between that and the 4*400, but yeah.
Are you really comparing the 4x2 to the 4x4? For me the 4x4 is one of the best events in track and there is absolutely no comparison between the two events.
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  #23  
Old 10-06-16, 10:03 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Are you really comparing the 4x2 to the 4x4? For me the 4x4 is one of the best events in track and there is absolutely no comparison between the two events.
pay attention....he is comparing to the 4x4 because they cut in to lane 1 during the 3rd leg. If that was the case it would of been a sweet.
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  #24  
Old 10-06-16, 10:23 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
pay attention....he is comparing to the 4x4 because they cut in to lane 1 during the 3rd leg. If that was the case it would of been a sweet.
Pay attention....it's Altor that is making that comparison, not CoventryTrackXCguy.
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  #25  
Old 10-06-16, 11:51 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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4 x 200 has value... for some

Personally, As a coach, I do not like the 4 x 200. However, my athletes who run it often love it, so I use that to my advantage.
- a great way for the 4 x 400 guys and girls to get used to moving through the zone with an open exchange as often they (outgoing runners) are just jogging or hopping at the exchange. So all potential 4 x 4 runners run the 4 x 200.
- for those sprinters who think they are not able to go 400 (mainly young girls and jumpers), they run the 4 x 200 as a stepping stone to the 4 x 400 (and even 4 x 800).
- a great event to help the meet move along if you have many sprinters/jumpers/thowers. You can run 3 or 4 relays at a tri meet with the some directions form the official rather he is talking to 8 kids or 28 kids. I hate a middle school or HS tri-meet that has 12 heats of the 200 meters as some coaches put all their kids run a running event, and the 200 gets often picked. Putting those kids in groups of 4 and let them carry a baton can be fun for them.... and they may give more effort as part of a team. Once a team we hosted had 13 kids in the 200 yet did not have a 4 x 200 foursome...that irked me.

Those are the purposes for the 4 x 2 in the regular season. As far as league meets, district and beyond goes, I have used the event for younger kids to have a chance to run those meets unless we have a potentially "real good" 4 x 200. if that is the case, I may decide to go with a "good" 4 x 2 instead of a 4 x 100.
Again, I think a 4 x 200 at Districts is a good chance for "next year's" 4 x 400 relay.

I would not be very upset if the 4 x 200 went away other than lost chances for some athletes to compete at meets. But, since it's part of a track meet, I will try to "coach" it and use it for the benefit of my team and my athletes.
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  #26  
Old 10-06-16, 12:28 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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I've always liked all the relays the best, which partly explains my reluctance to take out a relay event. My experience with the track athletes with the team I support, the athletes always prefer to race in relays. Our team in fact emphasizes relays over individual events, emphasis on relays = emphasis on team depth. Which is why we do more relay meets than run of the mill invitationals, like the ones at Hoover, Lakeview, and Dalton(Toby Grimm)- I love the Toby Grimm relays by the way, they sell great range fed chicken, very good. But yeah, relays have a lot more appeal, so If we take out the 4*200, what do we replace it with? I wouldn't mind replacing 4*200 w/ a sprint medley. Then again, don't mind me, I'm very conservative, and reluctant for change.
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  #27  
Old 10-06-16, 03:22 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
Personally, As a coach, I do not like the 4 x 200. However, my athletes who run it often love it, so I use that to my advantage.
- a great way for the 4 x 400 guys and girls to get used to moving through the zone with an open exchange as often they (outgoing runners) are just jogging or hopping at the exchange. So all potential 4 x 4 runners run the 4 x 200.
- for those sprinters who think they are not able to go 400 (mainly young girls and jumpers), they run the 4 x 200 as a stepping stone to the 4 x 400 (and even 4 x 800).
- a great event to help the meet move along if you have many sprinters/jumpers/thowers. You can run 3 or 4 relays at a tri meet with the some directions form the official rather he is talking to 8 kids or 28 kids. I hate a middle school or HS tri-meet that has 12 heats of the 200 meters as some coaches put all their kids run a running event, and the 200 gets often picked. Putting those kids in groups of 4 and let them carry a baton can be fun for them.... and they may give more effort as part of a team. Once a team we hosted had 13 kids in the 200 yet did not have a 4 x 200 foursome...that irked me.

Those are the purposes for the 4 x 2 in the regular season. As far as league meets, district and beyond goes, I have used the event for younger kids to have a chance to run those meets unless we have a potentially "real good" 4 x 200. if that is the case, I may decide to go with a "good" 4 x 2 instead of a 4 x 100.
Again, I think a 4 x 200 at Districts is a good chance for "next year's" 4 x 400 relay.

I would not be very upset if the 4 x 200 went away other than lost chances for some athletes to compete at meets. But, since it's part of a track meet, I will try to "coach" it and use it for the benefit of my team and my athletes.
I agree with Ena about meet length. In our home duals and tris we will often have our JV sprinters run the 200 and 4x200 or the 100 and 4x100 or even both relays rather than two open races. We still have a lot of heats of the 100 and 200, but this means we can have half of the total number of sprinters in each open sprint. When we run a larger team like Davidson there can be 15-16 heats of the open sprints even when both teams are running 4 relays teams in each event.

As for the 4x200 in general, I like it when we have and not as much when we don't. In general I am not in favor of taking out any events because that means fewer chances for kids to participate. I also like being able to alternate A 4x200, B 4x100 with B 4x200, A 4x100 each weekend at invitationals. It lets us develop depth and keeps kids fresher late in the season.
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  #28  
Old 10-06-16, 04:50 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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4 divisions? Plenty of time and makes more money!

There IS plenty of time to contest 4 divisions at the State Meet in 2 days.
I will NOT cost much more money and would bring in a lot more $.

Just Start the meet(s) an hour or so earlier and End it an hour later. Then take only 30-40 minute break between divisions instead of over an hour like they do now.
Example:

Division III starts at 8:30 am and would end at 11:00 am
Division II starts at 11:30 and ends at 2:00 pm
Division IV starts at 2:30 and ends at 5:00 pm
Division I starts at 5:30 and ends at 8:00 pm

You could also start at 8:00 am and take 40 minutes between each meet.

Field Events could be at 9:00 am, 1:00 pm, and 5:00 pm at times when your division is not doing running events.

I know some will say "waht about when a storm (lightning) come in". It would be exactly like it is now... you delay the meet. Have another division does not increase the chance of a delay or the length of a delay.... the day will still be 24 hours.

Note: I was in the Stands in 2006 when Grey Horn won the DIII pole vault at almost 10:00 pm. The lights at Jesse Owens stadium are out standing and the track facility was great.
**The problem would be that Everyone would want to go last to run their 4 x 4 under the lights.
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  #29  
Old 10-06-16, 07:13 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Question, what does people think about my other suggestion, the one where I mentioned a little adjustment in the order of events? If you think it's horsesh*t, don't be afraid to say so, I'm not that attached to that idea, Just a change I wouldn't mind seeing, and I just want to know if any of you older, more experienced track fans, think it would be a reasonable idea or not, and your reasoning behind it. I just think my idea, it would be great for so many amazing and hardworking athletes that are trying to multi-event.
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  #30  
Old 10-06-16, 08:31 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
Question, what does people think about my other suggestion, the one where I mentioned a little adjustment in the order of events? If you think it's horsesh*t, don't be afraid to say so, I'm not that attached to that idea, Just a change I wouldn't mind seeing, and I just want to know if any of you older, more experienced track fans, think it would be a reasonable idea or not, and your reasoning behind it. I just think my idea, it would be great for so many amazing and hardworking athletes that are trying to multi-event.
I think that meet managers would be a little leery of having hurdles in position for the 100s/110s for prelims, then moving them to the 300 spots for the start of finals, then back for the 100s/110s finals. While I was primarily a steeplechaser/5000 guy in college, I did do the 110 & 400 double a few times. I don't think I would have wanted to do the 400s first, even if there were five events between them. That said I am sure there are some athletes who would like to do the 400 & 300H double.
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