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  #3091  
Old 07-26-17, 01:48 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Yea, you're right. THAT group of people never ask for special treatment. LOL. Good stuff.

Some people in "THAT group" may seek special treatment just like some people in any group may seek special treatment. That doesn't mean you ban the whole group. Also, I genuinely think as a whole transgender people just want equal treatment, not special treatment.

I'll ask again, though. If a transgender person can pass all the required tests and does not seek special treatment, why do they not deserve to serve in the military?
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  #3092  
Old 07-26-17, 01:48 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
The military spends a *** ton on unneeded erectile disfunction medication (10X what they pay for trans services)
I don't agree with that either.
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  #3093  
Old 07-26-17, 01:50 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
A weapon that can fire more than 1 round with 1 pull of the trigger would not be considered semi-automatic.
Again, why are you ok with transgender people owning personally owning a firearm and not ok with them having one under the supervision of the military?
sorry...some things that are drilled in your head are hard to get out....shoulder fired, gas powered, air cooled....capable of firing in semi-automatic or three round bursts....so now that we are finished with the semantics of the standard issue of the US military....

I'm fine with mentally ill people not having weapons. I mean, history would probably say that is a good thing right?
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  #3094  
Old 07-26-17, 01:51 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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BTW, Trans shouldn't exist. Isn't the entire point to TRANSition into another gender, not to middle in some weird existence having a dick and .
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  #3095  
Old 07-26-17, 01:53 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Some people in "THAT group" may seek special treatment just like some people in any group may seek special treatment. That doesn't mean you ban the whole group. Also, I genuinely think as a whole transgender people just want equal treatment, not special treatment.

I'll ask again, though. If a transgender person can pass all the required tests and does not seek special treatment, why do they not deserve to serve in the military?
if they can pass all the requirements for their sex and are mentally stable then ok. They also have to sleep in the quarters of their biological sex, use the correct restrooms and showers, etc. This means if they are biologically men they have to pass those physical standards and not get to hit from the "women's tee".
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  #3096  
Old 07-26-17, 01:55 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
A person who is so messed up they don't know what sex they are I sure as hell don't want them running missions with me. Plus when they go through their change they are combat ineffective. Costs are costs and it's relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things but there are many things that keep people out of the military and I am glad to seethe CiC pushing this throug.
A person as bigoted and ignorant as yourself I would not want running missions with me. But you know what, we share the same training, qualifications, and leadership, we do our jobs and the system works. Muslims serve with Christians. Gays and straight. Men and Women. Etc.
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  #3097  
Old 07-26-17, 02:01 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
sorry...some things that are drilled in your head are hard to get out....shoulder fired, gas powered, air cooled....capable of firing in semi-automatic or three round bursts....so now that we are finished with the semantics of the standard issue of the US military....
I wouldn't call it semantics, but whatever.

Quote:
I'm fine with mentally ill people not having weapons. I mean, history would probably say that is a good thing right?
So back to my original point, which you adamantly denied, you are in fact advocating gun control. Thanks for clearing that up.
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  #3098  
Old 07-26-17, 02:41 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Thanks POTUS! Ship all the deviants out of here! MAGA
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  #3099  
Old 07-26-17, 02:47 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
I wouldn't call it semantics, but whatever.



So back to my original point, which you adamantly denied, you are in fact advocating gun control. Thanks for clearing that up.
TD tearing it up itt............or not
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  #3100  
Old 07-26-17, 03:09 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
The military spends a *** ton on unneeded erectile disfunction medication (10X what they pay for trans services)
Not sure what you point is. I'm not a fan of ANY elective procedure being paid for by Taxpayers. Although, I can say that if the problem is service related I can see the military paying for it. I just think proving that being in the service made you want a vagina might be a little tougher to prove.
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  #3101  
Old 07-26-17, 03:10 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
I wouldn't call it semantics, but whatever.



So back to my original point, which you adamantly denied, you are in fact advocating gun control. Thanks for clearing that up.
I see you're having an off-day. I hope things turn around for you.
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  #3102  
Old 07-26-17, 03:10 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
TD tearing it up itt............or not
LOL. I know right.
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  #3103  
Old 07-26-17, 04:17 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Somewhere between $2.4 million - $8.4 million. A literal drop in the bucket of the $49.3 BILLION in total health care expenditures.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html
I suspect that this decision goes way beyond the costs of funding sex change operations.
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  #3104  
Old 07-26-17, 04:20 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
I don't think ADD or eating disorders is on the same level as someone that is biologically one sex but thinks they are another.
It's called "normalization" winbypin. Progressives advance their cultural agenda by forcing the rest of us to accept that there is NO difference between these conditions. And who the hell are we to even say Trans folks even have a mental illness.
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  #3105  
Old 07-26-17, 04:30 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Wow the Trumpmeister has sure stirred up a hornets nest.

Stick with your guns WinbyPin, you're one of the only posters on this topic making any sense.

BTW, Trump is actually doing the military a HUGE favor here. From what I've heard both the rank & file and the officers clearly wanted this ban in place. But given the PC times we live in they have been browbeat into silence. Then a POTUS comes along who doesn't have a PC bone in his body and asks the military whether it's a good idea to have transgendered folks in the armed forces. They overwhelmingly tell him NO and so he defers to their expertise and issues his order. Refreshing isn't it.

But hey, the 2018 & 2020 elections can be dominated by the great debate of letting Trans folks into the military. That should doom Trump and the republicans in the voting booth!
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  #3106  
Old 07-26-17, 04:34 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
It's called "normalization" winbypin. Progressives advance their cultural agenda by forcing the rest of us to accept that there is NO difference between these conditions. And who the hell are we to even say Trans folks even have a mental illness.
I don't know that I've seen many on here claiming that thinking you belong to the opposite sex is normal. Where are you getting this?
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  #3107  
Old 07-26-17, 04:36 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
So back to my original point, which you adamantly denied, you are in fact advocating gun control. Thanks for clearing that up.
I don't get your point here beyond a goofy "Gotcha" that's rattling around in your head. For crying out loud, even the staunchest NRA supporters believe in some level of "Gun Control". I doubt they would be okay with four year old kids running around with shot guns or seriously mentally ill people carrying AR-15's down the road. And no, binge eating is NOT a serious mental disorder!
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  #3108  
Old 07-26-17, 04:37 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
I see you're having an off-day. I hope things turn around for you.
It could be worse. I could be making an argument based on emotion, using catch-phrases to illicit fear, advocating gun control, speaking about guns in a manner that shows I don't really know what I'm talking about...you know, typical leftie stuff.
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  #3109  
Old 07-26-17, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
I don't know that I've seen many on here claiming that thinking you belong to the opposite sex is normal. Where are you getting this?
Normalization is the process by which society is manipulated into accepting everything that deviates from the norm. It is a fundamental pillar of Political Correctness. It's not a question of whether you view something as "normal" or not it's that ultimately there will no such thing as "normal" which means there will be no such thing as "abnormal".
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  #3110  
Old 07-26-17, 04:39 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I don't get your point here beyond a goofy "Gotcha" that's rattling around in your head. For crying out loud, even the staunchest NRA supporters believe in some level of "Gun Control". I doubt they would be okay with four year old kids running around with shot guns or seriously mentally ill people carrying AR-15's down the road. And no, binge eating is NOT a serious mental disorder!
So are lumping transgender folks in with 4 year olds and in the seriously mentally ill bucket? Because if not I don't get your point. Is there evidence to support that they are a greater risk to society and therefore should have their 2nd amendment rights stripped?
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  #3111  
Old 07-26-17, 04:43 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
It's called "normalization" winbypin. Progressives advance their cultural agenda by forcing the rest of us to accept that there is NO difference between these conditions. And who the hell are we to even say Trans folks even have a mental illness.

I think the word you are looking for is actually "discrimination". Not sure how you confused the two. Their meanings are not even remotely alike.
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  #3112  
Old 07-26-17, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
Thanks POTUS! Ship all the deviants out of here! MAGA
The thing is Zeeman my guess is that Trump could have gone either way here based on the recommendation he got from the military. He's an old school NY City "liberal" and probably has no issues with trans gender folks. But he also promised to listen to the military on these matters and defer to their judgement in what makes for a superior fighting force. Trump is simply following through on this promise.
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  #3113  
Old 07-26-17, 04:44 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Normalization is the process by which society is manipulated into accepting everything that deviates from the norm. It is a fundamental pillar of Political Correctness. It's not a question of whether you view something as "normal" or not it's that ultimately there will no such thing as "normal" which means there will be no such thing as "abnormal".
I'm aware of the point you were making, I just didn't see a lot of what you were claiming in this thread.
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  #3114  
Old 07-26-17, 04:45 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
The thing is Zeeman my guess is that Trump could have gone either way here based on the recommendation he got from the military. He's an old school NY City "liberal" and probably has no issues with trans gender folks. But he also promised to listen to the military on these matters and defer to their judgement in what makes for a superior fighting force. Trump is simply following through on this promise.

What promise? The promise to fight for the LGBT community?
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  #3115  
Old 07-26-17, 04:48 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is online now
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
I think the word you are looking for is actually "discrimination". Not sure how you confused the two. Their meanings are not even remotely alike.
Nope. One of the goals of "normalization" is of course to eliminate what the progressives believe is "discrimination" by eliminating the cultural basis for believing whether something is normal or abnormal (right or wrong).

There is no logical argument that can be made that allowing trans folks to serve openly in the military improves the fighting ability of the US armed forces. There are numerous arguments that could be made how this foray into cultural activism could weaken American military power. Net, the logical decision would be to ban trans folks from serving in the military at this time. That the Social Justice Warrior world is exploding in anger indicates that it's probably the right choice.
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  #3116  
Old 07-26-17, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
What promise? The promise to fight for the LGBT community?
No, the promise to let the military decide what's best for them in fulfilling their mission to wage war in the name of the United States of America.

As you've noted though Trump is sympathetic to this community and is generally supportive of Trans rights. But it's a privilege to serve in the US military and in cases like this where an individual's opportunity to serve must be limited in order to preserve the optimum capability of the Armed Forces then the President must make a tough decision and Trump has.
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  #3117  
Old 07-26-17, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
I'm aware of the point you were making, I just didn't see a lot of what you were claiming in this thread.
Fair enough, my comment is more appropriately aimed at the wider world where this forms the basis of the "narrative".
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  #3118  
Old 07-26-17, 04:55 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Nope. One of the goals of "normalization" is of course to eliminate what the progressives believe is "discrimination" by eliminating the cultural basis for believing whether something is normal or abnormal (right or wrong).

There is no logical argument that can be made that allowing trans folks to serve openly in the military improves the fighting ability of the US armed forces. There are numerous arguments that could be made how this foray into cultural activism could weaken American military power. Net, the logical decision would be to ban trans folks from serving in the military at this time. That the Social Justice Warrior world is exploding in anger indicates that it's probably the right choice.
I don't even know where to begin...

Normal and abnormal isn't the same as right and wrong. That is a logical fallacy to the nth degree and any conclusion you come to based on that assumption will end up being wrong.

You are making the same arguments as those who opposed women, blacks, and gays to serve. If someone is qualified to serve in the military they deserve to serve. Not allowing them to do so because of their gender, their race, or their sexual identity is discrimination plain and simple.
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  #3119  
Old 07-26-17, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
I don't even know where to begin...

Normal and abnormal isn't the same as right and wrong. That is a logical fallacy to the nth degree and any conclusion you come to based on that assumption will end up being wrong.

You are making the same arguments as those who opposed women, blacks, and gays to serve. If someone is qualified to serve in the military they deserve to serve. Not allowing them to do so because of their gender, their race, or their sexual identity is discrimination plain and simple.
I agree that "normal" & "abnormal" are not the same as right & wrong but they often are treated in that way. My point was that in the progressive mind the goal is to eliminate ALL differences including normal/abnormal. And for the record, society's can, with caution, declare abnormal behavior to be "wrong".

As far as your last paragraph goes you are throwing out a tired old argument in defense of using the military as some kind of grand social experiment. There was never a logical or physiological basis to bar blacks from the armed forces. It was stupid and weakened America's military. Women on the other hand should not be serving in ground combat units or special forces where clear physiological differences negatively impact their performance. In addition there are unit cohesion issues that must be addressed and the minuscule number of women who could meet the standards to function in front line units are not worth the effort to place them there. Of course that still leaves a whole lot of jobs in the military that women can do well.

Now flame away.
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  #3120  
Old 07-26-17, 05:15 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I agree that "normal" & "abnormal" are not the same as right & wrong but they often are treated in that way. My point was that in the progressive mind the goal is to eliminate ALL differences including normal/abnormal. And for the record, society's can, with caution, declare abnormal behavior to be "wrong".

As far as your last paragraph goes you are throwing out a tired old argument in defense of using the military as some kind of grand social experiment. There was never a logical or physiological basis to bar blacks from the armed forces. It was stupid and weakened America's military. Women on the other hand should not be serving in ground combat units or special forces where clear physiological differences negatively impact their performance. In addition there are unit cohesion issues that must be addressed and the minuscule number of women who could meet the standards to function in front line units are not worth the effort to place them there. Of course that still leaves a whole lot of jobs in the military that women can do well.

Now flame away.
In your previous post you equated normal and abnormal with right and wrong. Why did you do that if you don't believe it?

Why a total ban then? There is no logical or tactical reason for a total transgender ban. If women are allowed despite their differences why not transgender people?

I've qualified my arguments many times in this conversation with "if they are qualified". Of course there are physiological differences between men and women. But denying someone the chance based solely on their gender, race, or sex is discrimination. If a transgender person can meet the requirements without special treatment why should they be denied?
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