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  #31  
Old 07-08-17, 03:59 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Eastisbest...

Catholic schools were once concentrated in the inner cities because that was where the Catholic population lived...then the population moved to the inner-ring burbs as Catholics as a group became more upwardly mobile. Now, a large portion of the Catholic population lives in the suburbs and exurbs, so the schools and parishes move there with them.

The need for Catholic schools in the inner cities to serve, and possibly evangelize, the inner city population has been reduced to a minimum in some cities due to the cost of competing with the public schools. Staffing has especially been a problem since there are no longer enough nuns, priests and brothers to act as faculty...and the cost of attracting lay teachers is very high, due to having to compete against very well paid public school teachers. Still, the schools are there. In Cleveland, you still have St. Ignatius, VASJ, Benedictine, Cleveland Central Catholic, Saint Martin DePorres, and St. Joseph Academy (girls) sitting largely among non-Catholic inner city neighborhoods and serving those communities for those who wish to attend. They also assist the other Catholic social services in those neighborhoods who largely serve non-Catholics. There are four elementary schools, and two preschools in Cleveland. The schools are there. The social services are there. The communities are largely non-Catholic.
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  #32  
Old 07-08-17, 10:45 PM
St.X fan2 St.X fan2 is offline
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I am not sure if you understand that diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty but priests from religious orders do take a vow of poverty.

You seem to make generalizations because no inner city Catholic schools have closed in my diocese. Some diocese are strapped for cash and not doing well depending where that diocese is located and if there are many jobs in that area.
Some diocese are closing churches because of low attendance and they cannot afford to keep the church buildings maintained. There are many parishes closing in Pittsburgh because they have too many buildings that they cannot afford to maintain. There are other dioceses that are not closing schools or churches.
Some schools have merged in some cities because Catholic grade school tuition is high and people can't afford it since there are not as many priests and religious sisters teaching as there used to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I don't think the accounting, or savings is going to be as straightforward as some might presume? Joining Clergy is not the vow of poverty some think. Teaching Priest (note: "Priest") can make some good cash on top of no soc sec payments, medical, even housing and food may be in the mix. Even third world, I've seen some living pretty high on the hog.

As the private schools do not generally address the high costs of Special Ed in anyway near the levels mandated by a public system, I doubt there would be a hugh savings if they could somehow magically find (cough had succeeded in their mission cough) enough clergy to fill the teaching and administrative positions.

People don't want to consider the possibility that these schools have failed. For at least five decades the private Catholic (run) schools have actively poached and cherry picked from the primary public system in order to feed the diminishing populations of their over-built secondaries. For at least three decades they have been closing elementaries to the deference of the higher profile secondaries


These schools have failed to generate a self sustainable clergy. They have sacrificed mission at the developmental ages for the more high profile secondary. They have failed to keep their alums, Catholic or not, vested in the supposed mission. They have failed to generate endowment.

They have failed.
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  #33  
Old 07-08-17, 11:13 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St.X fan2 View Post
1)I am not sure if you understand that diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty but priests from religious orders do take a vow of poverty.

2) You seem to make generalizations because no inner city Catholic schools have closed in my diocese. Some diocese are strapped for cash and not doing well depending where that diocese is located and if there are many jobs in that area.
3) Some diocese are closing churches because of low attendance and they cannot afford to keep the church buildings maintained. There are many parishes closing in Pittsburgh because they have too many buildings that they cannot afford to maintain. There are other dioceses that are not closing schools or churches.
Some schools have merged in some cities because Catholic grade school tuition is high and people can't afford it since there are not as many priests and religious sisters teaching as there used to be.
1) How does that pertain to the economics? I think that was the question being addressed, hypothetically if all lay positions were replaced by Priests in teaching and Administrative positions. I think there's a perception that Priests in American Catholic run schools work for meals and housing, lol. They don't.

2) I stated several times that I was speaking generally.

3) Yes. They are failing. That again, was my point. No debatable point there unless you are defining "success" as not bringing people to God, not bringing customers to the school, not raising funds required to operate, not being there to educate....

I'm presuming you believe there is a need for Catholic based education? If so, how can a case be made that if a Catholic run school closes and is no longer availabe to serve, that it didn't "fail?"
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  #34  
Old 07-08-17, 11:26 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Eastisbest...

Catholic schools were once concentrated in the inner cities because that was where the Catholic population lived...then the population moved to the inner-ring burbs as Catholics as a group became more upwardly mobile. Now, a large portion of the Catholic population lives in the suburbs and exurbs, so the schools and parishes move there with them.
.
Disagree, it's not chicken and eggs cjb. These aren't clubhouses. Christ didn't say, "Hey, there's a bunch of Catholics in Jersey, let's build a "Church" and some schools and give it to those people. The people belong to the Church, not the other way around. If they are still calling themselves "Catholic," their job is to leave those resources where they do the work. They can drive back to it. They can build new. But first priority is to keep the original, viable. Their job is to create the need. If they don't, then they have "failed." JMHO.

I think your reasoning forgets where "Catholics" come from. They're not born from the womb. God's Church fullfills it's mission by building resources where there are no Christians. This is not in dispute is it? If the Church builds in an impovershed Amazon village, it seems normal. But the idea that churches and schools should be built in the US where there are few or no (longer) Catholics seems anathema. To ME, it appears that the idea of "winning" at any costs has outweighed for many, the purpose of the Church.
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  #35  
Old 07-09-17, 08:10 AM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Disagree, it's not chicken and eggs cjb. These aren't clubhouses. Christ didn't say, "Hey, there's a bunch of Catholics in Jersey, let's build a "Church" and some schools and give it to those people. The people belong to the Church, not the other way around. If they are still calling themselves "Catholic," their job is to leave those resources where they do the work. They can drive back to it. They can build new. But first priority is to keep the original, viable. Their job is to create the need. If they don't, then they have "failed." JMHO.

I think your reasoning forgets where "Catholics" come from. They're not born from the womb. God's Church fullfills it's mission by building resources where there are no Christians. This is not in dispute is it? If the Church builds in an impovershed Amazon village, it seems normal. But the idea that churches and schools should be built in the US where there are few or no (longer) Catholics seems anathema. To ME, it appears that the idea of "winning" at any costs has outweighed for many, the purpose of the Church.

There are different missions within the church; some of them are missionary work, apostolic missions and parishes. Missionary would be your Amazon example, apostolic would be the efforts to administer to the inner city residents[In Cincinnati as an example, there are several Apostolic churches that serve the inner city], parishes are a "stable community of the faithful"
"Motu proprio"[issued by Pope Paul VI] directs that parishes in which apostolic activity can be performed only with difficulty or less effectively because of the excessive number of the faithful or too vast a territory or for any other reason, be suitably divided or dismembered according to the various circumstances. Likewise parishes which are too small should be united insofar as the situation demands it and circumstances permit. This directive is the reason why some churches close and others are built.
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  #36  
Old 07-09-17, 08:32 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Disagree, it's not chicken and eggs cjb. These aren't clubhouses. Christ didn't say, "Hey, there's a bunch of Catholics in Jersey, let's build a "Church" and some schools and give it to those people. The people belong to the Church, not the other way around. If they are still calling themselves "Catholic," their job is to leave those resources where they do the work. They can drive back to it. They can build new. But first priority is to keep the original, viable. Their job is to create the need. If they don't, then they have "failed." JMHO.

I think your reasoning forgets where "Catholics" come from. They're not born from the womb. God's Church fullfills it's mission by building resources where there are no Christians. This is not in dispute is it? If the Church builds in an impovershed Amazon village, it seems normal. But the idea that churches and schools should be built in the US where there are few or no (longer) Catholics seems anathema. To ME, it appears that the idea of "winning" at any costs has outweighed for many, the purpose of the Church.
Is the Church failing worldwide? No. It is as large as ever, with a lot of growth in Africa and Asia, due to missionary work in previously non-Catholic/Christian areas.

Is it failing in Europe and America? Yes, but organized religion has always done best with a poorer populace who have little to cling to but their faith. As Europe and America become more wealthy and more socialized, organized religion participation has diminished in many sects. To that end, yes...the Church has failed to reach the faithful as the standard of living status of the faithful has risen. Some believe a lot of Vatican 2 and the ecumenical movement has not helped in many ways. I don't know the answer, unfortunately. I do know the Church continues its social work and educational mission within most inner-cities.

I'm not in the private vs public school war. I believe there is a place for all schools...good schools...but we need to get all parents and households involved in stressing a good, solid education for their kids. It starts in the home. I realize the challenges in some environments, inner-city and rural poor, present more challenges, but I'd like to think we can bridge the gap if we can get bright people with ideas and initiative together to not just problem solve...but to actually do something. Plus, we need more folks to step up in some of these communities and stress the importance of family, work, education. Not easy stuff, but fortunately there are many good private and public schools and educators doing their part to help.

Now, if you are talking mostly about recruiting abuses at some private schools...some Catholic schools...yes, I believe some of them do abuse the system as it is set up. Some publics do, as well. I'm more of a school choice guy, so I'm in favor of parents sending their kid to whatever school they wish, for whatever reason. I would hope that most reasons are sound, of course.
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  #37  
Old 07-09-17, 03:11 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
There are different missions within the church;..This directive is the reason why some churches close and others are built.
Should be apparent by my interest in the topic, that you're not telling me anything new but thanks anyhow. You're mostly just confirming they are failing their mission with purpose. That's better to you? "Missions" are to go where there are few or no converts. Now all those who seem to find it impossible to say St Anthony "failed," are saying it is because there are no longer any Catholics there. lol. The school failed. The Church fails when it closes an elementary in a struggling part of the city or a small town and opens one up in the burbs.You can say it, it won't burn. "They are failing."


Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Is the Church failing worldwide? No. It is as large as ever, with a lot of growth in Africa and Asia, due to missionary work in previously non-Catholic/Christian areas..
I don't think inner-city Ohio gives a crap and why should they? And don't bring that information to the Debate Forum because the republi-clonces are pretty convinced Islam is taking over. But fair point, the number of people in the world is growing at a pretty good rate, particularly in 3rd world so about every philosophy I imagine is growing. No pats on the back to be had there. That's easy growth. Importing "converts" to the US and claiming "growth," isn't growth.

Not of interest. My interest would be them returning to downtown Ohio or to at least have enough class to stop promoting they are doing something superior.

Yes I have been to some of those missions. Mostly they are providing economic boom, it's a pay to play system for the targeted converts like most of the 3rd World Missions I've come across. You throw around cheap dollars and jobs in places that do not have any, it's pretty easy to get "converts." The Communists do it too.

The Missionaries seem to me mostly genuine, using what they think they can use to attract attention, be it schools or jobs or both. Some impressively talented people in the field. But if they can do it there, they can do it here. Bexley and Mount Lookout can take care of it's own.

But we were talking about Ohio. The Church and the Church run schools are failing here. Don't you have ANY concern when the Church vacates small town and inner city America for the burbs?

Last edited by eastisbest; 07-09-17 at 03:24 PM.
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  #38  
Old 07-09-17, 06:29 PM
Eagle112 Eagle112 is offline
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Termite2,
Please define the special needs that these schools provide. Public Schools place and pay for kids on IEPs along with all services inclusive of Counseling, PT, ST, and OT. Privates don't place kids on IEPs that I know of and youre telling us that they provide and pay for Speech, Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy to the Special needs Students? Please tell us about this population they serve?

Last edited by Eagle112; 07-09-17 at 06:40 PM.
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  #39  
Old 07-09-17, 06:36 PM
Eagle112 Eagle112 is offline
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It looks like St Anthony's closed due to lack of paying customers. Because of the high level of recruiting going on with basketball I'll take a guess they lost 10 kids per class who could have paid the tuition. That's 40 kids, but just average basketball players who would have never got to play. So they went elsewhere. Sometimes be careful what you wish for. I realize it's more complicated than that but you do chase away a lot of average athletes when they realize they will never have a chance to play.
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  #40  
Old 07-09-17, 08:00 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle112 View Post
Termite2,
Please define the special needs that these schools provide. Public Schools place and pay for kids on IEPs along with all services inclusive of Counseling, PT, ST, and OT. Privates don't place kids on IEPs that I know of and youre telling us that they provide and pay for Speech, Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy to the Special needs Students? Please tell us about this population they serve?

First, the Feds and the state pay for the majority of the cost through the public school district for public school special need students.
When a public school student is placed by the public school district with a private school; it is generally the result of the public school district not meeting the IEP and the private school has a program to address the particular situation of a student.
As a general rule, private schools are not required to provide an IEP, but they basically use something similar. When needed, the private school do have Speech, Physical therapy & OT; it depends on the specialty of the private school.
Some of the catholic schools in the area:
St Rita - speech
Linden Grove - autism spectrum disorder
The Springer school -learning disabilities
Summit Academy - AD/HD, Autism Spectrum Disorders, and related disorders
St Joseph Villa - mental health
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  #41  
Old 07-09-17, 09:12 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Looks like this thread took a turn. As for the basketball team, maybe some other school from the area could graciously allow these poor kids to come to their school and even let them tryout for their basketball team. If they are lucky enough to find a school without 10 other D1 recruits, they might just make the team.
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  #42  
Old 07-10-17, 11:15 AM
St.X fan2 St.X fan2 is offline
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1) Priests from religious orders do not get to keep any of the money for teaching as that money goes to their religious order. That is why tuition was much more cheaper decades ago when there were more religious sisters and priests from religious orders teaching as their salaries were lower than the laity. The numbers have gone down for religious vocations and mostly the laity are teaching and they demand a higher salary as many of them have families.

2) Yes, this particular school failed but there is still a need for Catholic education in order to teach Catholic kids about the faith and allow them to pray and attend Mass so they can grow in faith. There are Catholic schools that are doing well and others are struggling due to financial problems. Some parents can't afford Catholic schools since the tuition is high due to not as many priests and religious sisters teaching anymore.

The Catholic Church saves the government billions of dollars according to the figures that I have heard by operating schools all across the country. If every Catholic school closed think of all the kids from Catholic schools that would then be going to public schools. The number of new students attending the publics if this happened would be gigantic and many more schools would need to be built across the country, many more teachers hired, and many books would need to be ordered. These costs would be extraordinary also taking into account with more buildings that would mean more money to maintain all of these additional buildings. The parish I am at has 580 kids in K-8 and it is doing well. However, I realize that some schools are struggling and having difficulties making ends meet for a lot of reasons. There are good public schools which some Catholic parents send their kids to in order to save money or because they can't afford the local Catholic school. Also, our secular society does not encourage religion and is even hostile towards it in some regards. Some Christians have lost their faith and no longer come to church or send their kids to Catholic schools because they have fallen into the ways of our secular society that views religion as unnecessary or superstitious. The Catholic Church needs to do better at evangelization.



Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
1) How does that pertain to the economics? I think that was the question being addressed, hypothetically if all lay positions were replaced by Priests in teaching and Administrative positions. I think there's a perception that Priests in American Catholic run schools work for meals and housing, lol. They don't.

2) I stated several times that I was speaking generally.

3) Yes. They are failing. That again, was my point. No debatable point there unless you are defining "success" as not bringing people to God, not bringing customers to the school, not raising funds required to operate, not being there to educate....

I'm presuming you believe there is a need for Catholic based education? If so, how can a case be made that if a Catholic run school closes and is no longer availabe to serve, that it didn't "fail?"
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  #43  
Old 07-11-17, 02:29 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St.X fan2 View Post
The Catholic Church saves the government billions of dollars according to the figures that I have heard by operating schools all across the country. If every Catholic school closed think of all the kids from Catholic schools that would then be going to public schools. The number of new students attending the publics if this happened would be gigantic and many more schools would need to be built across the country, many more teachers hired, and many books would need to be ordered. These costs would be extraordinary also taking into account with more buildings that would mean more money to maintain all of these additional buildings. The parish I am at has 580 kids in K-8 and it is doing well. However, I realize that some schools are struggling and having difficulties making ends meet for a lot of reasons. There are good public schools which some Catholic parents send their kids to in order to save money or because they can't afford the local Catholic school. Also, our secular society does not encourage religion and is even hostile towards it in some regards. Some Christians have lost their faith and no longer come to church or send their kids to Catholic schools because they have fallen into the ways of our secular society that views religion as unnecessary or superstitious. The Catholic Church needs to do better at evangelization.
I'd be curious to see those estimates and what information they're based on. Unfortunately, despite a few notable outliers that in many cases are actually taking large sums of government money to provide education, most Catholic schools are not really taking students with anything more than mild special needs, therefore not taking on the most costly or most difficult to educate students.

Another factor that no one has brought up, but that I have read about, is the expansion of charter schools nationwide. In many ways, charter schools are similar in offering just about everything that urban Catholic schools have traditionally offered to low-income students, except of course the religious component. Jersey City has about a dozen charter schools.
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  #44  
Old 07-11-17, 09:12 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Just wait until the next Bob Hurley figures out the charter school loophole and puts together a school of 15 kids winning national championships.
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  #45  
Old 07-12-17, 10:55 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Just wait until the next Bob Hurley figures out the charter school loophole and puts together a school of 15 kids winning national championships.
I'm actually surprised this hasn't happened yet, especially in Ohio. Charter schools are open-enrollment and tuition-free and can oftentimes operate very independently. Think Glenville but with even more autonomy.
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  #46  
Old 07-12-17, 11:02 AM
St.X fan2 St.X fan2 is offline
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[QUOTE=Bennies'01;6788679]I'd be curious to see those estimates and what information they're based on. Unfortunately, despite a few notable outliers that in many cases are actually taking large sums of government money to provide education, most Catholic schools are not really taking students with anything more than mild special needs, therefore not taking on the most costly or most difficult to educate students.

/QUOTE]

http://www.pacatholic.org/catholic-s...-2-28-billion/

I will find more information later but here is one for now.
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  #47  
Old 07-13-17, 09:08 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by St.X fan2 View Post

http://www.pacatholic.org/catholic-s...-2-28-billion/

I will find more information later but here is one for now.
Thank you for that information. Unfortunately, that organization makes a mistake I assume many calculations like that contain. When discussing per pupil expenditures for public schools, we must remember that we're talking about an average. So when you see a report that says that Ohio districts spend $11,354 per student, it's important to consider that most students actually cost much less to educate because that number is being pulled upward by the ~15% of special needs students who cost two or three times that to educate (as well as the small percentage of outliers who are much more expensive to educate).

A Catholic school might think to say, "Hey, we have an enrollment of 100 students, so we're saving the public schools $1,135,400," but that's not an accurate claim because of the inflated per pupil expenditure number and the fact that most typical Catholic schools aren't educating the most costly students. That's not to say that Catholic education doesn't provide some savings by educating these students with private tuition and donation dollars, but with the expansion of vouchers that savings is quickly diminishing. And in some places the value of a voucher is greater than the cost to educate the leaving student (again these are usually students without costly special needs), which actually then costs the public schools. Taxpayers make up the difference because students with special needs are protected by Federal and state laws and must receive a free and appropriate education someplace, which is more often than not the local public school district or on the public school district's dime.
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  #48  
Old 07-13-17, 04:03 PM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I don't think the accounting, or savings is going to be as straightforward as some might presume? Joining Clergy is not the vow of poverty some think. Teaching Priest (note: "Priest") can make some good cash on top of no soc sec payments, medical, even housing and food may be in the mix. Even third world, I've seen some living pretty high on the hog.

As the private schools do not generally address the high costs of Special Ed in anyway near the levels mandated by a public system, I doubt there would be a hugh savings if they could somehow magically find (cough had succeeded in their mission cough) enough clergy to fill the teaching and administrative positions.

People don't want to consider the possibility that these schools have failed. For at least five decades the private Catholic (run) schools have actively poached and cherry picked from the primary public system in order to feed the diminishing populations of their over-built secondaries. For at least three decades they have been closing elementaries to the deference of the higher profile secondaries.

Speculation but I think it's a fair question to ask the alums of these inner city private schools that for so long have poached, why they did not become vested in the mission? Maybe the simple asking of the question will get a few of those alums to rethink and remember their values. What is more important, a fifth McMansion and gold lame baby seats for their own kids or the religious and public OR private academic education of a 7 year old living without Winter heat in the old neighborhood?


Instead of increased efforts towards proselytization and sharing the word, private schools attempted to complete rosters by poaching and cherry picking from the public systems and raise revenue by politicing public money. They seriously and selfishly harmed the synergy in their feeder schools and in the public systems, particularly in the inner cities with their high rate of special ed, counseling and vocational training needs (all the higher cost aspects of education not addressed by secondary "Catholic" schools).

To pick a decade, I'd say 50s-60s would be about the time the private Catholics began to over build and move out of the Central ethnic cities and abandoned their mandates. It's killing both systems, when by now, the private Catholic, if they had indeed succeeded in their mission, would be fully endowed, nearly free schools serving the neighborhoods that gave them birth. So it's still on my mind, where's the money going? Is the revenue generated by the high schools being used for other means and when a school hits a diminishing return, is it abandoned for higher returns? The economics of these schools, do not make sense. Hell, one good basketball player, let alone a few CEOs could boost a school into economic security. Why do the alums not value the education supplied by their alma maters or is it the changed diversity of the neighborhoods in which the schools lie?


These schools have failed to generate a self sustainable clergy. They have sacrificed mission at the developmental ages for the more high profile secondary. They have failed to keep their alums, Catholic or not, vested in the supposed mission. They have failed to generate endowment.

They have failed.
Wow.....where do I begin.

To begin with you are assessing Catholic schools through the very narrow prism of athletics. Contrary to what you may believe Catholic schools were not opened with the primary purpose of fielding athletic teams.

Catholic grade schools outnumbered Catholic high schools because they have been parish based schools. Looking at Cincinnati the majority of Catholic parishes at some point started a primary school. These grade schools then fed into either a smaller number of Catholic high schools, either diocesan or private. In the past 25 years their have been declining number of students attending Catholic schools, hence the need to consolidate (or simply close) some of the Catholic grade schools. That trend has also impacted the Catholic high schools, although it is not as pronounced simply because there are significantly fewer Catholic high schools compared to grade schools.

You imply that the decline in the number of religious (priests and nuns) is because the Catholic schools stopped "proselytizing" because they were so focused on "poaching" kids from public schools. If that ridiculous statement were true, there would not be declining enrollments in Catholic schools.

It is true there are significantly less religious but I believe that is due in large part to the declining Catholic population, coupled with the fact that parents of today are not as anxious to see their kids enter the religious life compare to parents 30 or so years ago.

I am certainly not defending all Catholics, or even every Catholic school that might overemphasize sports, but your rant shows your hatred for Catholic schools and apparently the affluent as well.
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  #49  
Old 07-14-17, 10:47 AM
St.X fan2 St.X fan2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
Thank you for that information. Unfortunately, that organization makes a mistake I assume many calculations like that contain. When discussing per pupil expenditures for public schools, we must remember that we're talking about an average. So when you see a report that says that Ohio districts spend $11,354 per student, it's important to consider that most students actually cost much less to educate because that number is being pulled upward by the ~15% of special needs students who cost two or three times that to educate (as well as the small percentage of outliers who are much more expensive to educate).

.
Thank you for your post as well.
Here is one more link
http://catholiccourier.com/in-depth/...leFormat=false
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  #50  
Old 07-16-17, 10:30 PM
ringer2 ringer2 is offline
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I really don't feel like taking the time to respond point by point to eastisbest. I am just registering that his posts are full of inaccuracies, lack of understanding when he thinks he knows it all, , absurd assumptions and half truths. All sprinkled with a healthy amount of bias.
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Old 07-17-17, 11:31 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Originally Posted by ringer2 View Post
I really don't feel like taking the time to respond point by point to eastisbest. I am just registering that his posts are full of inaccuracies, lack of understanding when he thinks he knows it all, , absurd assumptions and half truths. All sprinkled with a healthy amount of bias.
I don't know if he's biased against all Catholic schools, but I've seen enough over the years to believe Toledo St. John's Jesuit is not a favorite of his.

I like him as a poster, though. He's one of the Toledo guys that has a good handle on the football and basketball in his area when we meet up in the D2/R6 and regional D1 basketball threads.
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Old 07-29-17, 01:47 PM
sehs sehs is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
I'm sure that is what Oak Hill, Findlay Prep and the other basketball factories think about their schools too.

IMO, the worst thing happening in HS sports is the growth of the sports factories. St Anthony was one of the very first to embrace this concept.
1) I think you are right, sports factories are ruining high school athletics, especially in basketball

2)St. Anthony's is a difficult example of this. While I'm sure the mission of the school was good and the intent was as well, private schools sometimes let their athletic programs run wild. In most schools, private or public, a majority of students are involved in some athletic activity, so of course they will cater a bit to that side and in private school cases, it can become a powerful marketing tool to bring in more students. The problem with St. Anthony's is while it did well for many of those basketball players, basketball did not bring in more students from outside of that world. Catholic schools only work if there is a community that invites the whole group and they clearly failed at that which is why they closed.
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