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  #31  
Old 09-13-17, 11:51 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
Can't even call it "track on grass".
At least the NDCL kid on the left has proper asphalt running shoes on!
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  #32  
Old 09-13-17, 01:17 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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OHSAA Rule Book

2.3) Road racing is interpreted as a different sport than cross country. If the entire race is run on a road, participation is not a violation of the non-interscholastic competition bylaw.

This is regarding only to kids who run road races during the xc or track season. OHSAA does not define what XC is but it can be understood that if only 20 feet of the race is on grass then it is considered a cross country race due to the wording "ENTIRE RACE IS RUN ON A ROAD."
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  #33  
Old 09-13-17, 05:26 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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That race was at Garfield Park, with a lot of pavement...and looking at the results there is no doubt they used the race as a tempo workout...
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  #34  
Old 09-13-17, 09:42 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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So is the Akron half marathon a violation? I ask because parts of it, in the past have been run on the towpath for a half mile. Also, I believe the course goes onto the concrete paths on the akron u campus.

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  #35  
Old 09-14-17, 10:49 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
So is the Akron half marathon a violation? I ask because parts of it, in the past have been run on the towpath for a half mile. Also, I believe the course goes onto the concrete paths on the akron u campus.

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I don't know the technical answer to that question but I sure hope a high school CC runner is not trying race 1/2 marathon in the middle of the CC season.
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  #36  
Old 09-14-17, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
So is the Akron half marathon a violation? I ask because parts of it, in the past have been run on the towpath for a half mile. Also, I believe the course goes onto the concrete paths on the akron u campus.

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I don't know that the Akron Marathon would be a problem, but something like a Warrior Dash or a Spartan Race would.
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  #37  
Old 09-14-17, 12:15 PM
jakeburg jakeburg is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I don't know that the Akron Marathon would be a problem, but something like a Warrior Dash or a Spartan Race would.
I can't imagine how a Warrior Dash or a Spartan Race could be confused with a cross country race. Terrain isn't the only issue, I would argue.

Not having read the bylaws for all the other sports, my hunch is that they took the language and intent for soccer, volleyball, basketball, baseball, etc., and just applied it to cross country.
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  #38  
Old 09-14-17, 05:31 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
I don't know the technical answer to that question but I sure hope a high school CC runner is not trying race 1/2 marathon in the middle of the CC season.
Yeah, not sure it would matter much to Coventry. At least they would be running.
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  #39  
Old 09-14-17, 05:58 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
I don't know the technical answer to that question but I sure hope a high school CC runner is not trying race 1/2 marathon in the middle of the CC season.
None of my folks have that in mind. I was just asking that out of shear morbid curiosity. As I pulled that stunt years ago whsn I was in high school xc. We had a bye week that Saturday, and I had already ran 10-12 miles longer mileage during summer training. And according to the wording by ohsaa, it was legal. Although a small segment was on the towpath. That was a few years ago though. Coventry's schedule is a little bit more filled out on saturdays in this day and age. Of course the combination of sickness, soccer and an injury, means weve been struggling to run everybody in the meets we are in. So we probably should steer clear of half marathons.

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Last edited by CoventryTrackXCguy; 09-14-17 at 06:10 PM..
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  #40  
Old 09-14-17, 07:56 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
So we probably should steer clear of half marathons.
Ever. I can't think of a single positive that would come from it for a HS runner. At any point in any training cycle.

In all seriousness, I'd like to know what your training program looks like at Coventry. See if some of us here on yappi could give some constructive suggestions.
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  #41  
Old 09-15-17, 08:12 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Ever. I can't think of a single positive that would come from it for a HS runner. At any point in any training cycle.

In all seriousness, I'd like to know what your training program looks like at Coventry. See if some of us here on yappi could give some constructive suggestions.
Some long runs for "top" runners might be around a half-marathon length, but certainly not at race pace.
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  #42  
Old 09-15-17, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Running Man 101 View Post
Some long runs for "top" runners might be around a half-marathon length, but certainly not at race pace.
That was my thought. That said, I certainly wouldn't tell a top runner to plop down $30, $40, $50 to do a long recovery run (i.e. enter a half marathon). If they can spare that kind of dough, they should be giving it to me.
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  #43  
Old 09-16-17, 12:55 AM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Ever. I can't think of a single positive that would come from it for a HS runner. At any point in any training cycle.

In all seriousness, I'd like to know what your training program looks like at Coventry. See if some of us here on yappi could give some constructive suggestions.
Our training program is as follows:

July; practice is a couple days a week until first day of official practice, in keeping with ohsaa regulation that only allows 10 days of coaching contact.

August; Heideman race series- a series of 3 5k's run on Thursdays at Goodyear. During August, Mondays are 4-5 miles base mileage. Tuesdays are speed work (reps, fartleks, etc) Wednesdays are like Mondays. Fridays are 25-30 minutes easy then ultimate Frisbee.

Once Saturday invitationals starts, our basic weekly workout schedule looks the same, except longer mileage is on Thursday.

In august and September, our top guys are getting 30-35 miles a week, or slower guys are getting 20-25.



As for my thoughts on how we could improve:

1st: Because we advertise july conditioning as optional, our rank and file does not take it seriously as a whole. Not everyone shows up to every workout. July mileage is pretty key to a runners success in a season. The only guys that really understood the importance of that at Coventry were Brad Holmgren and Tucker Pearce, one of whom went to states in 2015, the other who might have if he joined the team sooner than his junior year.

2nd: We should separate our boys and girls teams more at practice. In theory we have a boys coach and a girls coach. In practice, they more or less merge the teams together such that both coaches coach both. The result: the Girls team is not getting the attention it needs. I've not see evidence that Coventry has talent for strong girls team. But surely we can do better than this. Coventry girls deserve better.

3rd. In the coming seasons, we should increase the weekly mileage to 40 miles a week for our top guys, 30 for the slower ones.

4th: mileage days/tempo days, we do not have a set course, everyone is at liberty to choose where they want to run their 4-5 miles. everyone is running everywhere, and the coaching is not able to keep track of what everyone is doing effectively. Have everyone run the same course. We can help our athletes better.

5th. Stretching. We need better discipline there. Stretching decreases risk of bad injury bugs.


Now with these thoughts, I do not mean to belittle the coaching in any way shape or form. I think Coach Shoe is doing a fine job, this is just his second year of coaching, so if any of the coaching is to blame, its inexperience, not incompetence. He is willing to learn and make adjustments. So I will continue to fully support him.

I believe that this Coventry boys team has potential going forward. I think they had potential this year. They are getting greater numbers out. I believe the roster these days has more talent than it has ever had in the past. They have a teacher-coach, whom the students all respect, and are willing to let him coach them. They have an AD now who is also the track coach, and ran XC in hs. AD/district support is no longer an issue, we get whatever we want from them. Coventry has exhausted its serviceable excuses. We have everything we need to build a program here. All our successes and failings are entirely on us now. And yet so far this season, we have just fallen so so short. It is frustrating. Glen Oak, and Hoover we were doing ok. But since then, things have gone poorly. Edit...even boardman, a place we traditionally run well at, has been a poor showing. Somethings got to change. Because at the rate were going...only Ray gets past districts. If we are looking like this; we don't even deserve to go.

My final thoughts.

Last edited by CoventryTrackXCguy; 09-16-17 at 11:32 AM..
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  #44  
Old 09-16-17, 06:58 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
Our training program is as follows:

July; practice is a couple days a week until first day of official practice, in keeping with ohsaa regulation that only allows 10 days of coaching contact.

August; Heideman race series- a series of 3 5k's run on Thursdays at Goodyear. During August, Mondays are 4-5 miles base mileage. Tuesdays are speed work (reps, fartleks, etc) Wednesdays are like Mondays. Fridays are 25-30 minutes easy then ultimate Frisbee.

Once Saturday invitationals starts, our basic weekly workout schedule looks the same, except longer mileage is on Thursday.

In august and September, our top guys are getting 30-35 miles a week, or slower guys are getting 20-25.



As for my thoughts on how we could improve:

1st: Because we advertise july conditioning as optional, our rank and file does not take it seriously as a whole. Not everyone shows up to every workout. July mileage is pretty key to a runners success in a season. The only guys that really understood the importance of that at Coventry were Brad Holmgren and Tucker Pearce, one of whom went to states in 2015, the other who might have if he joined the team sooner than his junior year.

2nd: We should separate our boys and girls teams more at practice. In theory we have a boys coach and a girls coach. In practice, they more or less merge the teams together such that both coaches coach both. The result: the Girls team is not getting the attention it needs. I've not see evidence that Coventry has talent for strong girls team. But surely we can do better than this. Coventry girls deserve better.

3rd. In the coming seasons, we should increase the weekly mileage to 40 miles a week for our top guys, 30 for the slower ones.

4th: mileage days/tempo days, we do not have a set course, everyone is at liberty to choose where they want to run their 4-5 miles. everyone is running everywhere, and the coaching is not able to keep track of what everyone is doing effectively. Have everyone run the same course. We can help our athletes better.

5th. Stretching. We need better discipline there. Stretching decreases risk of bad injury bugs.


Now with these thoughts, I do not mean to belittle the coaching in any way shape or form. I think Coach Shoe is doing a fine job, this is just his second year of coaching, so if any of the coaching is to blame, its inexperience, not incompetence. He is willing to learn and make adjustments. So I will continue to fully support him.

I believe that this Coventry boys team has potential going forward. I think they had potential this year. They are getting greater numbers out. I believe the roster these days has more talent than it has ever had in the past. They have a teacher-coach, whom the students all respect, and are willing to let him coach them. They have an AD now who is also the track coach, and ran XC in hs. AD/district support is no longer an issue, we get whatever we want from them. Coventry has exhausted its serviceable excuses. We have everything we need to build a program here. All our successes and failings are entirely on us now. And yet so far this season, we have just fallen so so short. It is frustrating. Glen Oak, and Hoover we were doing ok. But since then, things have gone poorly. Edit...even boardman, a place we traditionally run well at, has been a poor showing. Somethings got to change. Because at the rate were going...only Ray gets past districts. If we are looking like this; we don't even deserve to go.

My final thoughts.
A couple of things to consider. Maybe varying mileage based on age/how long the athlete has been running rather than on how fast they run? In my experience there is a much stronger correlation between how many seasons an athlete has run and their ability to handle higher mileage without injury than how fast they are.

The runs in June and July have to be optional. You can't require them. I have found the key is to get the kids to encourage each other. Have a set time (or two different set times) each day when kids will meet and run.

Having at least some of the distance runs be particular routes is a good idea. It helps to make sure kids are running at appropriate paces.

We have the boys and girls do their warm ups separately, but on workout days we generally run together, with the groups determined by pace rather than gender. For example, next Tuesday we are doing a race pace intervals workout with 1000s and 1200s. The number of intervals is determined by mileage group, 30-50, and the type of interval is determine by what each athlete's race pace is. Faster kids running 1200s, slower kids running 1000s.
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