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  #1  
Old 02-21-19, 08:53 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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WCPO Spotlight on DA Impact on HS sports

Interesting spotlight here with an interview of David Robertson on the DA and impact on high school sports:

https://www.wcpo.com/sports/high-sch...-join-the-club
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  #2  
Old 02-21-19, 09:29 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Question I have from this article is: how does a Sophomore commit to a D1 school (Auburn, in this case) when coaches aren't even allowed to talk to them until they are Juniors?
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Old 02-21-19, 09:41 AM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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if high schools have such an issue with it why are they practicing on a high school field
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  #4  
Old 02-21-19, 10:03 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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What stood out to me was the interviews of the DA Director and West's AD. If you listen, the overall theme of each was the individual player vs the group (school). One spent the entire interview touting what they strive to do to help the individual, while the other spent the interview talking about what that individual can do for the school. Interesting dichotomy on direct display.

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  #5  
Old 02-21-19, 11:53 AM
jed the fish show jed the fish show is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
Question I have from this article is: how does a Sophomore commit to a D1 school (Auburn, in this case) when coaches aren't even allowed to talk to them until they are Juniors?
The actual rule states that college coaches cant talk DIRECTLY to a player until Sept. 1st of junior year......DIRECTLY. Offers happen all the time before then, and it could be argued that offers are happening even MORE now that the rules have changed for a number of reasons. I'm NOT saying I agree with that philosophy as I recently had an 8th grader receive an offer (which is insane) but it is what it is.
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Old 02-21-19, 12:20 PM
cincysports4 cincysports4 is offline
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The news reporter sounded so uninterested and almost like she did no homework. Was hard to hear her talk/ask questions.
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  #7  
Old 02-21-19, 12:26 PM
cincysports4 cincysports4 is offline
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What was the point of the interview, just curious? Will their now be a ECNL interview LOL
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  #8  
Old 02-21-19, 12:30 PM
Sports_Fan_ Sports_Fan_ is offline
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This is such an ongoing topic in high school sports. I have always stated it is a pipe dream for the DA to say the have "all the best players', because many excellent players cannot afford the travel, cost etc. that has not allowed them to play. The DA sells a pipe dream to these players that the best way for a scholarship is through the DA, and that is terribly false narrative. I have watched high school girls soccer for the past 10yrs exclusively and there is a ton of top talent in Cincinnati area. The DA has hurt as that AD was stating, but there still is a huge number of great players in this area they miss out on. I also believe these "soccer guru's" as I say think they are the best trainers, coaches whatever and they know the game better than anyone, again terribly false narrative they sell to these players as well. There are tons of excellent high school soccer coaches out there that would accomplish the exact same wins if they were coaching those DA teams, give me 15-20 top players and I'll win as well. In contrary, put this top CUP/Kings coach with an average high school program they have to build lets see how they do. I can answer that, they would not be as successful, build a program or take a program that is not successful and put the time in with kids that aren't as good, and these 'guru's" think they are above that of team/player to coach.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-19, 12:50 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
This is such an ongoing topic in high school sports. I have always stated it is a pipe dream for the DA to say the have "all the best players', because many excellent players cannot afford the travel, cost etc. that has not allowed them to play. The DA sells a pipe dream to these players that the best way for a scholarship is through the DA, and that is terribly false narrative. I have watched high school girls soccer for the past 10yrs exclusively and there is a ton of top talent in Cincinnati area. The DA has hurt as that AD was stating, but there still is a huge number of great players in this area they miss out on. I also believe these "soccer guru's" as I say think they are the best trainers, coaches whatever and they know the game better than anyone, again terribly false narrative they sell to these players as well. There are tons of excellent high school soccer coaches out there that would accomplish the exact same wins if they were coaching those DA teams, give me 15-20 top players and I'll win as well. In contrary, put this top CUP/Kings coach with an average high school program they have to build lets see how they do. I can answer that, they would not be as successful, build a program or take a program that is not successful and put the time in with kids that aren't as good, and these 'guru's" think they are above that of team/player to coach.
Riddle me this Batman... why are many good HS also very good club coaches if it's just about inheriting good players but many unsuccessful HS that coach club are not successful there either??
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  #10  
Old 02-21-19, 01:11 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Wow that was a joke. I bet the Kroger by the house of the diminutive ego maniac ran out of lotion and tissue watching himself on TV.
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  #11  
Old 02-21-19, 01:27 PM
Sports_Fan_ Sports_Fan_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Riddle me this Batman... why are many good HS also very good club coaches if it's just about inheriting good players but many unsuccessful HS that coach club are not successful there either??
Sounds good Robin...You're telling me these top DA coaches are coaching HS soccer? If they do, please tell me what HS they coach at. I was talking about the DA coaches, not just "club coaches". This is an absolute FACT, you put the top 15-20 "best" on one team and then tell me how good your DA team is. Again, not sure where you are confused Robin, but these top DA guys are not going coach any program they have to build up....not gonna happen.
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  #12  
Old 02-21-19, 01:31 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
This is such an ongoing topic in high school sports. I have always stated it is a pipe dream for the DA to say the have "all the best players', because many excellent players cannot afford the travel, cost etc. that has not allowed them to play. The DA sells a pipe dream to these players that the best way for a scholarship is through the DA, and that is terribly false narrative. I have watched high school girls soccer for the past 10yrs exclusively and there is a ton of top talent in Cincinnati area. The DA has hurt as that AD was stating, but there still is a huge number of great players in this area they miss out on. I also believe these "soccer guru's" as I say think they are the best trainers, coaches whatever and they know the game better than anyone, again terribly false narrative they sell to these players as well. There are tons of excellent high school soccer coaches out there that would accomplish the exact same wins if they were coaching those DA teams, give me 15-20 top players and I'll win as well. In contrary, put this top CUP/Kings coach with an average high school program they have to build lets see how they do. I can answer that, they would not be as successful, build a program or take a program that is not successful and put the time in with kids that aren't as good, and these 'guru's" think they are above that of team/player to coach.
I dont think I've ever seen it written or stated by anyone within the DA that they offer "the best way for a scholarship." If anything they will consistently state that they offer the best environment for development. And if the comparison is between the DA and any high school (minus IMG) that isn't even an argument.

You are correct that simply by having A cost, let alone an expensive cost, you limit the pool of players you will get. But with that said, there are many fully funded DA clubs, meaning it is free to play for them. Either way, while they may not get every single elite player in an area, it's very disingenuous to say they don't take the vast majority of them away.

You are also being disingenuous with the coaching and the training environment differences between DA and high school. For starters, you leave out the fact that while they are getting the "best" 15 kids in an area they are using those players to play against teams that are also the best 15 kids in an area. So it's not as if having top level talent automatically means they win everything (though I would also point to winning and losing being less of a factor in the DA environment as well). They go against mostly equal talent in competitions, making player talent less of a factor in results. In high school the level of competition for almost every team can vary drastically over the course of a season.

Ultimately, your last point on the coaching is an apples and oranges comparison. High school coaching is mainly about just as you said, building a program with the goal in mind to win as much as possible. While the DA is more about building a program with the goal in mind of developing the players within the program to their highest abilities as possible. Two very different missions involving very different coaches, trainers, competition, and training environments.

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  #13  
Old 02-21-19, 02:05 PM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
I dont think I've ever seen it written or stated by anyone within the DA that they offer "the best way for a scholarship." If anything they will consistently state that they offer the best environment for development. And if the comparison is between the DA and any high school (minus IMG) that isn't even an argument.

You are correct that simply by having A cost, let alone an expensive cost, you limit the pool of players you will get. But with that said, there are many fully funded DA clubs, meaning it is free to play for them. Either way, while they may not get every single elite player in an area, it's very disingenuous to say they don't take the vast majority of them away.

You are also being disingenuous with the coaching and the training environment differences between DA and high school. For starters, you leave out the fact that while they are getting the "best" 15 kids in an area they are using those players to play against teams that are also the best 15 kids in an area. So it's not as if having top level talent automatically means they win everything (though I would also point to winning and losing being less of a factor in the DA environment as well). They go against mostly equal talent in competitions, making player talent less of a factor in results. In high school the level of competition for almost every team can vary drastically over the course of a season.

Ultimately, your last point on the coaching is an apples and oranges comparison. High school coaching is mainly about just as you said, building a program with the goal in mind to win as much as possible. While the DA is more about building a program with the goal in mind of developing the players within the program to their highest abilities as possible. Two very different missions involving very different coaches, trainers, competition, and training environments.

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The goal of the DA is to identify players to promote to the National Team -- hence all the insane rules about substitution and not playing on any other teams. They nearly trip over themselves ignoring the 99.5% of players who are more interested in playing in the NCAA and won't step foot on a field internationally...
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  #14  
Old 02-21-19, 02:16 PM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Interesting that they chose to only interview large public schools. I would challenge the comments of the AD who stated that his coaches have better training than club coaches. Maybe this is true in basketball or volleyball, but as far I know the DA and top local soccer clubs have pretty strict licensing requirements and require ongoing training as well. High school coaches for the most part simply need a pulse and maybe a teaching license.

At the end of the day, it's a very personal decision that can only be made by the player. This whole sense of community that they kept harping on is pretty much BS. It's not 1950. The DA, ECNL, and club teams have their own sense of community that spans a greater geographic area while the high school is a much smaller, limited community. One could argue that being a part of larger, regional, and even national community will make these young people more well rounded at the end of the day.
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  #15  
Old 02-21-19, 02:39 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
The goal of the DA is to identify players to promote to the National Team -- hence all the insane rules about substitution and not playing on any other teams. They nearly trip over themselves ignoring the 99.5% of players who are more interested in playing in the NCAA and won't step foot on a field internationally...
That's one of the goals, not the goal. And if they are ignoring players on their roster that is news to me. I've never witnessed anything close to that. If you are on a DA roster you are not being ignored by anyone in your club. If that were the case instead of ignoring you they would move you down and replace you with a different player that is a better fit for that environment. Making sure they have each player at the proper level within their club is a priority. I can't see how that wouldn't be the case.

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  #16  
Old 02-21-19, 02:40 PM
Sports_Fan_ Sports_Fan_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
The goal of the DA is to identify players to promote to the National Team -- hence all the insane rules about substitution and not playing on any other teams. They nearly trip over themselves ignoring the 99.5% of players who are more interested in playing in the NCAA and won't step foot on a field internationally...
I agree! The DA hates HS, and college soccer nothing compares to the pipe dream they sell. The way to the national team blah blah, out of the the thousands of girls playing with only a handful making the team. The DA is a money maker, I have seen plenty of HS girls get D-1 scholarships w/o the DA.
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Old 02-21-19, 02:46 PM
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[QUOTE=fearthekeeper;7259723]Interesting that they chose to only interview large public schools. I would challenge the comments of the AD who stated that his coaches have better training than club coaches. Maybe this is true in basketball or volleyball, but as far I know the DA and top local soccer clubs have pretty strict licensing requirements and require ongoing training as well. High school coaches for the most part simply need a pulse and maybe a teaching license.

A license doesn’t make you a good coach! That’s like saying everyone with drivers license is an “excellent driver”. Because Waldo goes spends his weekends paying for a license, wears man capree shorts, and uses the expression “well done, unlucky” does not equal a great soccer coach. Any clown can sit through a class and write practice plan...not a successful coach. Soccer is the only sport that makes a dumb requirement for a license! I guess Bill Belichick is a crap coach because he never got a license..that’s a joke. Coaching is more than a piece of paper.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-19, 02:48 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
I agree! The DA hates HS, and college soccer nothing compares to the pipe dream they sell. The way to the national team blah blah, out of the the thousands of girls playing with only a handful makkngbthe team. The DA is a money maker, I have seen plenty of HS girls get D-1 scholarships w/o the DA.
Again, you're projecting you're own beliefs into the DA. Getting D1 scholarships is nowhere in their mission statement. I could see if the DA had a monopoly on youth soccer, but that is far from the case. There is a plethora of choices out there for kids to find their way through top level soccer. Why so much hate for one of the choices? Don't like it? Just don't choose it, and move on.

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  #19  
Old 02-21-19, 02:48 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
I agree! The DA hates HS, and college soccer nothing compares to the pipe dream they sell. The way to the national team blah blah, out of the the thousands of girls playing with only a handful makkngbthe team. The DA is a money maker, I have seen plenty of HS girls get D-1 scholarships w/o the DA.
I will continue to say, as long as this statement (bolded/underlined) is said, HS hates outside competition.

It has BEFORE the DA existed. And it continues. Why do people support NFHS (and state associations) banning outside competition? But, when the DA does it, all of a sudden there is an uproar?

Insert regular club, ECNL, AAU, AYSO, etc. in instead of DA. All are banned by NFHS (and state associations) too. Hypocrisy all around from HS.
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Old 02-21-19, 02:50 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
A license doesn’t make you a good coach! That’s like saying everyone with drivers license is an “excellent driver”. Because Waldo goes spends his weekends paying for a license, wears man capree shorts, and uses the expression “well done, unlucky” does not equal a great soccer coach. Any clown can sit through a class and write practice plan...not a successful coach. Soccer is the only sport that makes a dumb requirement for a license! I guess Bill Belichick is a crap coach because he never got a license..that’s a joke. Coaching is more than a piece of paper.
I'd argue that youd get more quality coaching in other sports at the youth level of they required licensing. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Ohio requiring NFHS licensing for all high school coaches in all sports?

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Old 02-21-19, 02:54 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
Question I have from this article is: how does a Sophomore commit to a D1 school (Auburn, in this case) when coaches aren't even allowed to talk to them until they are Juniors?
Coaches can communicate with athletes when the athlete is on campus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
I'd argue that youd get more quality coaching in other sports at the youth level of they required licensing. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Ohio requiring NFHS licensing for all high school coaches in all sports?
Ohio does require an NFHS course (maybe multiple?). All done online.
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Old 02-21-19, 02:56 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Ohio does require an NFHS course (maybe multiple?). All done online.
Damn OHSAA and them edumacated thinking. They don't care about real coaches.

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Old 02-21-19, 03:05 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Damn OHSAA and them edumacated thinking. They don't care about real coaches.
I'm not quite sure what the course actually educates though. If I'm not mistaken, much of it is general sports information. I do believe a concussion course is required too.
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Old 02-21-19, 03:13 PM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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dagnabit i missed it when did nfhs ban kids from playing club thats restrictive
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Old 02-21-19, 03:14 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sports_Fan_ View Post
A license doesn’t make you a good coach! That’s like saying everyone with drivers license is an “excellent driver”. Because Waldo goes spends his weekends paying for a license, wears man capree shorts, and uses the expression “well done, unlucky” does not equal a great soccer coach. Any clown can sit through a class and write practice plan...not a successful coach. Soccer is the only sport that makes a dumb requirement for a license! I guess Bill Belichick is a crap coach because he never got a license..that’s a joke. Coaching is more than a piece of paper.
There is coaching education for nearly all sports. US Track and Field offers courses. Volleyball has courses.

I've seen major baseball, basketball, and football organizations (clubs, schools, leagues, etc.) offering coaching education. If someone wants to be good at something, they'll continue to do professional development. Soccer just happens to have one built in that is a FIFA standard. That's not a bad thing.
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Old 02-21-19, 03:17 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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dagnabit i missed it when did nfhs ban kids from playing club thats restrictive
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not?

I'll go with not. But, many state associations (NFHS affiliated) do not permit any competition within the HS sport -- no matter the sport. So, in Ohio, a HS soccer player cannot play AAU basketball during the fall (or club soccer in the fall). These HS players aren't even allowed to go to college ID camps once their season starts (even if there are no games, just training).

It's not present in all states, but many of the states do ban outside competition within the NFHS structure.
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Old 02-21-19, 03:28 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not?



I'll go with not. But, many state associations (NFHS affiliated) do not permit any competition within the HS sport -- no matter the sport. So, in Ohio, a HS soccer player cannot play AAU basketball during the fall (or club soccer in the fall). These HS players aren't even allowed to go to college ID camps once their season starts (even if there are no games, just training).



It's not present in all states, but many of the states do ban outside competition within the NFHS structure.
This rule applies to junior high as
well. There's also the restrictions put on clubs with the amount of kids they can have on a team from any one school.

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  #28  
Old 02-21-19, 04:51 PM
jed the fish show jed the fish show is offline
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"Coaches can communicate with athletes when the athlete is on campus." - BD


WRONG. As of last April, college soccer coaches can NOT communicate with athletes while on campus. Those kooky facts again...…..
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Old 02-21-19, 05:28 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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dagnabit i missed it when did nfhs ban kids from playing club thats restrictive
Banned more than 5 from one schools program. The program is every soccer team a school has.
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  #30  
Old 02-21-19, 05:29 PM
HowardWebb HowardWebb is offline
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College coaches don’t give a rats what high school you play for, they want to know what your club experience is
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