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  #2281  
Old 04-17-18, 11:25 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
Do you even understand the difference between fact and opinion? this is not about innocence or guilt. its about trying to present a opinion as a fact.
Since the Democrats are going to use any malicious findings to try and impeach Trump it very much is about guilt or innocence.

Whether it's your opinion or just stating facts, it doesn't change how burden of proof works.
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  #2282  
Old 04-17-18, 12:15 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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if Trump is impeached it wont be soley on the democrats, the investigation is led by republicans, furthermore if the findings are true does it matter if they are malicious? what Trump backers fail to realize is that Trump made his own bed. but its funny you bring up how burden of proof works. does that apply to Hillary Clinton who conservatives whine about ad nauseam is supposedly guilty of a host of charges even though she hasnt been proven guilty or convicted of any. is she innocent until proven guilty or does the conservative double standard apply? is that how it works?
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  #2283  
Old 04-17-18, 12:31 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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The lies are fact. All the indictments thus far are facts. The burden of proof to get warrants are facts. You just don't like those facts. And the Cohen situation should be alarming, though again we don't know what investigators know.

Pubs keep pushing the "collusion" or nothing narrative. Sorry. The investigation is first and foremost a counter-intelligence op against Russian interference. And also includes conspiracy, obstruction, and/or other crimes discovered, by the campaign or anyone else, not just Trump.

I have also heard little to nothing from Dem leadership regarding impeachment. Nor from the caucus overall. Really funny coming from the party who went after the Clintons with no shame whatsoever, and still do.

I definitely do not want Trump impeached. Unless crimes are so evident and egregious they can't be ignored even by both republican houses.
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  #2284  
Old 04-17-18, 12:34 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
if Trump is impeached it wont be soley on the democrats, the investigation is led by republicans, furthermore if the findings are true does it matter if they are malicious? what Trump backers fail to realize is that Trump made his own bed. but its funny you bring up how burden of proof works. does that apply to Hillary Clinton who conservatives whine about ad nauseam is supposedly guilty of a host of charges even though she hasnt been proven guilty or convicted of any. is she innocent until proven guilty or does the conservative double standard apply? is that how it works?
I guess you have a short memory. The FBI, House Oversight Committee, and State Department Inspector General all concluded that Hillary Clinton sent classified material to an unsecured private server. Nobody disputes that as a fact. No one disputes this is a crime.

James Comey saved her skin by claiming she was too stupid to be a criminal and the AG under Obama took that as an invitation to not bring charges.

So no, it's not the same, at all
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  #2285  
Old 04-17-18, 12:56 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/re...d-information/ (Clinton & classified info).

I know I know deep state. Looking back at that scandal by today's standards makes it almost laughable.
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  #2286  
Old 04-17-18, 01:22 PM
Gulliotine Gulliotine is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
James Comey saved her skin by claiming she was too stupid to be a criminal and the AG under Obama took that as an invitation to not bring charges.
In defense of Comey, stupid Hillary was using the "I just made a mistake" excuse long before the email scandal.

That's why I laugh out loud every time one of her supporters tell me how smart she is. lol
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  #2287  
Old 04-17-18, 01:28 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/re...d-information/ (Clinton & classified info).

I know I know deep state. Looking back at that scandal by today's standards makes it almost laughable.
Cool story. Unfortunately mishandling any classified material is a crime. Not even limited to when you are in office. Any violation of the non-disclosure agreement you must sign to get access to classified at any point during your lifetime is also a crime. At the very least it's certainly a reason to not give someone a promotion to POTUS.
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  #2288  
Old 04-17-18, 02:14 PM
toledomansfield toledomansfield is online now
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There are people who believe that the mueller investigation has been professional, tight lipped, and devoid of leaks of what the investigation has learned. These people tend to be democrats.

these same people also believe that the mueller investigation has evidence that Cohen traveled to Prague in 2016 based on reporting of sources close to the investigation.

this is a strange set of "facts" to believe in.
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  #2289  
Old 04-17-18, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledomansfield View Post
There are people who believe that the mueller investigation has been professional, tight lipped, and devoid of leaks of what the investigation has learned. These people tend to be democrats.

these same people also believe that the mueller investigation has evidence that Cohen traveled to Prague in 2016 based on reporting of sources close to the investigation.

this is a strange set of "facts" to believe in.
Oh the irony of it all.
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  #2290  
Old 04-17-18, 03:48 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is online now
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I think the Prague trip is interesting because of the way Cohen has tried really hard to make people think he has never gone to Prague.

The vapid appearance of Cohen on the Hannity show where he and Sean made a huge deal of recounting Trump asking Cohen for his passport to prove he didn't go to Prague.

Well once you are in Europe and travel to another European nation they don't stamp your passport again .

I don't know or really care for that matter if Cohen went to Prague, but I do that when people try a bit too hard to offer an explanation going out of their way to prove something and then in Cohen's case trying to a use evidence{ The passport} that doesn't have anything to do with proving he was never there , my ears perk up .



If I had to bet whether Cohen has ever been in Prague? I would say yes , not because he's a friend and Lawyer of Trump , and he has run for office as a Democrat actually , but rather what I see as he and his trying a bit too hard here, he isn't that believable and that passport stuff was irrelevant .


I also have seen many of Trump's men lie about merely ever speaking to Russians and foreign agents only to be found out later, this may be another one of those instacnes of a faulty memory lol
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  #2291  
Old 04-17-18, 03:55 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is online now
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Cohen also hasn't accounted for most of the tiMe that he could have been there. May be he isn't lying and was really in a Suburb of Prague LOL
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  #2292  
Old 04-17-18, 06:18 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Hey Happy, Harry, BJF, TP & Golden Tornado there is another investigation chugging along that is looking at the actions of the FBI & DOJ during the run up to the election and during the transition to the Trump administration. This investigation is being conducted by the Internal Affairs department within the DOJ and it has already claimed one scalp - Andrew McCabe.

https://amgreatness.com/2018/04/17/t...-an-appetizer/

Still, reading Michael Horowitz’s meticulously researched report is a bracing experience. And who knows, perhaps Andrew McCabe was prudent to assemble a $500,000 GoFundMe legal defense fund. “It is not easy,” Jonathan Turley noted at The Hill, “to transform oneself from a once-powerful public official terminated for cause to the equivalent of a late-night, mud-splattered stray seeking shelter. However, McCabe had the media, which portrayed him as a noble civil servant viciously and unfairly targeted by Trump operatives.”

Thanks to Michael Horowitz, however, we now know that, far from “noble.” Instead, he was a lying, partisan hack. What we’ll find out next, I predict, is that he was also part of the largest political scandal in U.S. history: a concerted effort by operatives in the Department of Justice, the FBI, and other intelligence agencies to influence the course of a presidential election and then, when that didn’t work, to sabotage the people’s choice.
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  #2293  
Old 04-17-18, 06:40 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
Cool story. Unfortunately mishandling any classified material is a crime. Not even limited to when you are in office. Any violation of the non-disclosure agreement you must sign to get access to classified at any point during your lifetime is also a crime. At the very least it's certainly a reason to not give someone a promotion to POTUS.
but you dont have a problem with Jared Kushner using a private email server. where is the outrage?
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  #2294  
Old 04-17-18, 06:43 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Hey Happy, Harry, BJF, TP & Golden Tornado there is another investigation chugging along that is looking at the actions of the FBI & DOJ during the run up to the election and during the transition to the Trump administration. This investigation is being conducted by the Internal Affairs department within the DOJ and it has already claimed one scalp - Andrew McCabe.

https://amgreatness.com/2018/04/17/t...-an-appetizer/

Still, reading Michael Horowitz’s meticulously researched report is a bracing experience. And who knows, perhaps Andrew McCabe was prudent to assemble a $500,000 GoFundMe legal defense fund. “It is not easy,” Jonathan Turley noted at The Hill, “to transform oneself from a once-powerful public official terminated for cause to the equivalent of a late-night, mud-splattered stray seeking shelter. However, McCabe had the media, which portrayed him as a noble civil servant viciously and unfairly targeted by Trump operatives.”

Thanks to Michael Horowitz, however, we now know that, far from “noble.” Instead, he was a lying, partisan hack. What we’ll find out next, I predict, is that he was also part of the largest political scandal in U.S. history: a concerted effort by operatives in the Department of Justice, the FBI, and other intelligence agencies to influence the course of a presidential election and then, when that didn’t work, to sabotage the people’s choice.
more right wing nonsense.
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  #2295  
Old 04-17-18, 06:45 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
I guess you have a short memory. The FBI, House Oversight Committee, and State Department Inspector General all concluded that Hillary Clinton sent classified material to an unsecured private server. Nobody disputes that as a fact. No one disputes this is a crime.

James Comey saved her skin by claiming she was too stupid to be a criminal and the AG under Obama took that as an invitation to not bring charges.

So no, it's not the same, at all
so what actually was Hillary convicted of?
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  #2296  
Old 04-17-18, 07:13 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is online now
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She's going to indicted any day now , now all go hold your breath until she is
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  #2297  
Old 04-17-18, 08:32 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
but you dont have a problem with Jared Kushner using a private email server. where is the outrage?
I have a problem with anyone mishandling classified information. They shouldn't have access to it. Is Jared Kushner running for President?
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  #2298  
Old 04-17-18, 08:34 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
so what actually was Hillary convicted of?
She was found guilty of wrongdoing by multiple different investigators, again not disputed, just because they didn't have the balls to bring criminal charges on her doesn't mean she didn't do something wrong that should immediately disqualify her from being POTUS. But I'm sure you still voted for her.
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  #2299  
Old 04-17-18, 09:00 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is online now
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Your party has a helluva leader , a guy we al can be proud of and if he merely had a D after his name you would be howling daily
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  #2300  
Old 04-17-18, 09:16 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
She was found guilty of wrongdoing by multiple different investigators, again not disputed, just because they didn't have the balls to bring criminal charges on her doesn't mean she didn't do something wrong that should immediately disqualify her from being POTUS. But I'm sure you still voted for her.
since when is wrong doing a crime?
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  #2301  
Old 04-17-18, 09:22 PM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
I have a problem with anyone mishandling classified information. They shouldn't have access to it. Is Jared Kushner running for President?
no he is working in the white house as a senior advisor in charge of,reforming the criminal justice system, diplomacy with China,diplomacy with Mexico, negotiating peace in the Middle East. to name a few.
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  #2302  
Old 04-18-18, 06:52 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
since when is wrong doing a crime?
She was found guilty of mishandling classified information which is a crime. It's not my job to prosecute her, unfortunately the people who have that job elected not to do it.

Stop deflecting. You and no other liberal have the stones to defend her in this. You all know very well why there was no investigation.
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  #2303  
Old 04-18-18, 06:57 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by goldentornado View Post
no he is working in the white house as a senior advisor in charge of,reforming the criminal justice system, diplomacy with China,diplomacy with Mexico, negotiating peace in the Middle East. to name a few.
His access was restricted and he wasn't put up for a promotion to POTUS. Thanks for making my point
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  #2304  
Old 04-18-18, 07:08 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Comey's message that the president may be compromised on Russia is playing out now as WH backtracks on tough Russian sanctions.

Haley doesn't deny it either as she refused to cover for Trump when he changed his mind in the sanctions
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  #2305  
Old 04-18-18, 07:21 AM
toledomansfield toledomansfield is online now
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Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Your party has a helluva leader , a guy we al can be proud of and if he merely had a D after his name you would be howling daily
and if he had a "D" after his name you would be defending daily.
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  #2306  
Old 04-18-18, 08:26 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Comey's message that the president may be compromised on Russia is playing out now as WH backtracks on tough Russian sanctions.

Haley doesn't deny it either as she refused to cover for Trump when he changed his mind in the sanctions
Or maybe Trump is working the back channels with Putin to deescalate our confrontation over Syria? And he doesn't have time for the likes of Lindsey Graham and others who seem to want to get into a full blown war in Syria. I guess Iraq wasn't enough for this group.

Now here's an example that the Trump administration is a lot more sophisticated in it's international dealings than Barrack "red line" Obama ever was. BTW, did you hear about this Happy? It sure seems like a more mature bit of diplomatic activity then handing a Russian diplomat a plastic toy with the word "reset button" misspelled in Russian!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-say...001402724.html

Seems like over the Easter Weekend, CIA director (and soon to be Secretary of State) Mike Pompeo met secretly with North Korea's Rocket Man to discus denuclearizing the Korean peninsula. Sure it may go nowhere but on the other hand this could be a HUGE breakthrough. So it seems very likely that right now we are in secret talks with Russia about Syria and that imposing new sanctions on them at the very moment we're negotiating might be seen as PROVOCATIVE.

Of course Trump has to deal with his ignorant and largely disloyal GOP Senate that wants to remove Assad come hell or high water - or nuclear war. But hey, neo-cons are going to neo-con! Maybe we can spill a whole bunch of American blood and tax dollars in Syria until they agree to embrace "democracy" and solve their differences through Vermont style town-hall meetings. Yea, that's the ticket!
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  #2307  
Old 04-18-18, 08:49 AM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
His access was restricted and he wasn't put up for a promotion to POTUS. Thanks for making my point
do you expect to us believe that?
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  #2308  
Old 04-18-18, 09:04 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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We just spent hundreds of millions bombing absolutely nothing. Even Trump ally Israel mocked it. "Mission Accomplished!" He actually said that - really. Mattis advised seeking congressional approval, Trump overruled him. Haley announced sanctions and got thrown under the bus like some stupid b****. (She was confused). We support Assad we don't support Assad nobody knows. We almost doubted for a split-second but Trump still loves Putin. Congress came out of the meeting yesterday alarmed and confused.

Or as lotr10 would describe - 3D chess.
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  #2309  
Old 04-18-18, 09:37 AM
goldentornado goldentornado is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
She was found guilty of mishandling classified information which is a crime. It's not my job to prosecute her, unfortunately the people who have that job elected not to do it.

Stop deflecting. You and no other liberal have the stones to defend her in this. You all know very well why there was no investigation.
who found her guilty?
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  #2310  
Old 04-18-18, 09:53 AM
Altor Altor is online now
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The 9% of Obama voters that voted for Trump and arguably the additional 4.4 million Obama voters who did not vote in 2016.
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