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  #1  
Old 08-15-18, 08:07 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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Court Rules Against OHSAA’s Use of Competitive Balance

Court Rules Against OHSAA’s Use of Competitive Balance
Hamilton County court targets use of Tier 1 factor as it applies to GCL coed division schools, but ruling has statewide implications

The court’s TRO ruling was specific to the Tier 1 factor and specifically to St. Bernard Roger Bacon High School and the other members of its league – the Cincinnati Greater Catholic League’s coed division. However, OHSAA member schools voted to have the Competitive Balance process apply to all member schools, both public and non-public.

“We were advised this afternoon of the court’s TRO,” said OHSAA Executive Director Jerry Snodgrass. “Although the court’s ruling was specific to one conference, the OHSAA is an organization that emphasizes treating all of our member schools fairly and consistently, so we will work diligently with our staff, Board of Directors and general counsel to determine the best course of action in light of the TRO.”

The ruling has no affect on regular season schedules or contests, however the OHSAA had already announced the tournament divisional breakdowns for 2018-19 using Competitive Balance for the sports that it affects – soccer, volleyball, football, basketball, baseball and softball

Last edited by runohio; 08-15-18 at 08:48 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-15-18, 08:41 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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OK, y'all are going to have to bring me up-to-speed on this one. I had heard years ago that OHSAA wanted to cut out the successful Catholic & private schools from OHSAA tournaments. Is this Tier 1 all about that? What's going on?
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  #3  
Old 08-15-18, 08:47 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
OK, y'all are going to have to bring me up-to-speed on this one. I had heard years ago that OHSAA wanted to cut out the successful Catholic & private schools from OHSAA tournaments. Is this Tier 1 all about that? What's going on?
Open the link and read the box outlined in green in the bottom left corner. That explains what Tier 1 means better than I can.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...Balance101.pdf

Incidentally, track and cross country are not subject to the OHSAA's Competitive Balance legislation anyway. Competitive balance adjustments only apply to: football, volleyball, soccer, basketball, baseball, and softball.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 08-15-18 at 11:39 PM..
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Old 08-15-18, 09:29 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Open the link and read the box outlined in green in the bottom left corner. That explains it better than I can.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...Balance101.pdf

Incidentally, track and cross country are not subject to the OHSAA's Competitive Balance legislation anyway. Competitive balance adjustments only apply to: football, volleyball, soccer, basketball, baseball, and softball.
Thanks. I'll doing some reading on it.
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Old 08-16-18, 03:11 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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So this is something that actually takes up time and money in the court system? Doesn't that seem a bit insane? Are there kids dying as a result of this "rule" or policy by the OHSAA? I want to say I want to know more about the situation and the details of the whole matter, but I don't want to know. Nothing about any of this is so important that it should have ever made it into a court room. This is the cause that someone decided they needed to take up? This actually made someones list and then made it to the top of that list. I need the little referee to pop up and blow his whistle and yell "Time Out"! "This is a teachable moment." My brain hurts.
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Old 08-16-18, 07:39 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
So this is something that actually takes up time and money in the court system? Doesn't that seem a bit insane? Are there kids dying as a result of this "rule" or policy by the OHSAA? I want to say I want to know more about the situation and the details of the whole matter, but I don't want to know. Nothing about any of this is so important that it should have ever made it into a court room. This is the cause that someone decided they needed to take up? This actually made someones list and then made it to the top of that list. I need the little referee to pop up and blow his whistle and yell "Time Out"! "This is a teachable moment." My brain hurts.
Exactly. This just make the CGC schools look like entitled wieners.
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Old 08-16-18, 07:44 AM
charlemurphy charlemurphy is offline
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If I read the article correctly, this case was in common pleas court. Which the majority of cases are a waste of time. Secondly, did you read the article? It changes enrollment figures which, in turn, changes the division a school is competing in. To you and I, meaningless. To the coach, AD, and other members of a schools athltic program, important. I am assuming that is the reasoning for the case.
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Old 08-16-18, 05:53 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Basically a way to level the playing field for all schools. The OHSAA cant kick out or seperate private and pubkic schools.....if they did the private schools wouldn't follow any rules.
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Old 08-16-18, 06:02 PM
Altor Altor is online now
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Originally Posted by charlemurphy View Post
To you and I, meaningless. To the coach, AD, and other members of a schools athltic program, important. I am assuming that is the reasoning for the case.
The OHSAA is a private organization. Roger Bacon and every other member school chose to be a member and to play by the rules passed through majority votes of the membership.

I fail to see their standing here that would make a judge say that Roger Bacon would be irreparably harmed by playing in a different division. Unless their argument is that the further they go in a tournament, the better their recruitment is the next year and the more money they make. In which case, I think that proves the need for competitive balance rules.
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Old 08-16-18, 06:58 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Their standing would be the same as the NCAA vs US title nine. The Ncaa is also a private organization like the Ohsaa, but it’s members do receive money from the state. NCAA members also receive money from the federal government. That would be a very compelling argument, it held up against the NCAA.
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Old 08-16-18, 09:00 PM
Altor Altor is online now
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AFAIK, Roger Bacon's argument is not Title IX related. Also, I don't believe it was member schools filing suit against the NCAA for Title IX issues.
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Old 08-16-18, 09:15 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
The OHSAA is a private organization. Roger Bacon and every other member school chose to be a member and to play by the rules passed through majority votes of the membership.

I fail to see their standing here that would make a judge say that Roger Bacon would be irreparably harmed by playing in a different division. Unless their argument is that the further they go in a tournament, the better their recruitment is the next year and the more money they make. In which case, I think that proves the need for competitive balance rules.
I would suggest that while they call themselves a "private" organization, the fact that the majority support for their organization's goings-on comes from publicly-supported schools would suggest that they are not so private. I am more than certain that they are subject to litigation, and rightfully so.
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Old 08-16-18, 09:52 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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True this is not a title 9 argument....but the same rules could apply....the ohsaa is supported by members who receive state funds. Just like the NCAA is supported by members who receive federal funds. The Ohsaa very well could be in this case subject to the jurisdiction of the common pleas court. I’m not a lawyer but I have testified. In court over a thousand times and I have written hundreds of affidavits. I do understand how the system works just a little. I’m just much to handsome to be an attorney. Lol
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  #14  
Old 08-17-18, 05:50 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I'm sorry, but this is not a lawsuit or court ruling thing. This is a write up a proposal, come up with an alternate and better solution, present it and get other member schools to vote it in thing. Cross county had a situation where boys and girls enrollments were combined. It was a joke and it got overturned internally and not through the courts. It's a bit irritating to me the schools involved in this too. These aren't inner city schools that struggle for resources and just want some sort of break. Just one thing in their favor for once.
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  #15  
Old 08-17-18, 07:47 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
.if they did the private schools wouldn't follow any rules.
Yes they would if they wanted to still play regular season games/meets against public schools.

Take cross county meets if privates could not go to a public schools invitationals and vice versa. Some privates only have a handful of private schools even remotely close to them in size w/i 100 miles. So would those few schools just race against each other every weekend.

The privates certainly help OHSAA money but the private schools need the public schools more than than the public's need the private's.
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Old 08-17-18, 11:09 AM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Private schools will follow what ever Ohsaa comes up with....or they will be penalized/removed. The new system is not horrible as it stands. The next step should be to add a super division in all sports to level out the playing field for the Masons, St, X’s , Ignatius and the like. Because any kind of multiplier will not work against those schools.
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Old 08-17-18, 11:43 AM
Altor Altor is online now
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Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
I would suggest that while they call themselves a "private" organization, the fact that the majority support for their organization's goings-on comes from publicly-supported schools would suggest that they are not so private. I am more than certain that they are subject to litigation, and rightfully so.
My point about the private organization was not that they couldn't be sued. They certainly can, especially if they are doing something illegal or discriminating against a protected class in some way.

My point was that I don't see RB's standing in this. How are they irreparably harmed? How is this policy illegal or discriminatory? This is exacerbated by the fact that RB chose to become a member of the OHSAA and play by the rules that the member schools voted for. There is no law requiring RB or any other school (public or private) be a member school. Heck, if RB doesn't like the division they've been placed in for a particular sport, they don't even have to play in the tournament. As long as they tell the OHSAA they don't plan to participate in the tournament before the deadline, there isn't a penalty.
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Old 08-17-18, 02:30 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by cvctrackfan View Post
Private schools will follow what ever Ohsaa comes up with....or they will be penalized/removed. The new system is not horrible as it stands. The next step should be to add a super division in all sports to level out the playing field for the Masons, St, X’s , Ignatius and the like. Because any kind of multiplier will not work against those schools.
I'd agree on that. A fourth division in track & field for the super-sized schools would be more appropriate. It has been 47 years since the old two-class AA/A system became the 3-class AAA/AA/A system. That is just a couple years short of the length of when the single, no class system became Class A & B in 1921. That system lasted from 1921-1970. Ohio may very well be ready for a fourth division.
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Old 08-17-18, 06:50 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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The Ohio High School Athletic Association announced Friday that Cincinnati-based law firm Keating, Muething and Klekamp PLL (KMK) will assist the OHSAA in defense of the lawsuit filed Wednesday in Hamilton County by Roger Bacon High School and the Greater Catholic League Coed.

KMK will join OHSAA general counsel Steve Craig, Esq., in defense of the process that OHSAA member schools voted into place in 2014 that determines how schools are assigned to postseason divisions in football, soccer, volleyball, basketball, softball and baseball.

“We look forward to vigorously defending the OHSAA’s position,” said Joe Callow, partner at KMK. “We believe that the case has no merit and we are in the process of exploring all defenses and legal options.”

“We will aggressively pursue defense of the bylaws that our member schools adopted,” said Jerry Snodgrass, OHSAA Executive Director. “Membership in the OHSAA, which is renewed annually by each school, is voluntary. By being a member, our schools make an agreement with each other to follow their constitution and bylaws that they adopt for themselves. We have a referendum voting process in place that permits member schools to propose and vote for changes to the bylaws and constitution and feel that any change should come about through this established process.”

On Wednesday, the OHSAA was informed that the Court of Common Pleas in Hamilton County granted a temporary restraining order (TRO) that prohibits the OHSAA from utilizing a component of the Competitive Balance process against St. Bernard Roger Bacon High School and the other seven members of the GCL coed division.

However, since OHSAA bylaws apply equally to all member schools, both public and non-public, the TRO has statewide implications. The court’s TRO was specific to the Tier 1 factor, which addresses how non-public schools designate their official feeder schools.
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Old 08-17-18, 08:28 PM
lane4 lane4 is offline
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As noted earlier, irrelevant to track so I'm not sure why this is posted here.

That said, OHSAA and it's lawdogs will swat this down without breaking a sweat. Important to remember this was voted on and approved by the member schools, not the OHSAA officials. Only thing this suit will serve to do is put Roger Bacon tuition money in the pockets of it's lawyers.
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  #21  
Old 08-23-18, 08:22 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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OHSAA Files Complaint and Emergency Motion with Ohio Supreme Court

Complaint submitted regarding Judge Robert Ruehlman’s order in Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas concerning Competitive Balance process
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Old 08-27-18, 09:49 PM
lane4 lane4 is offline
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Predictably, Ohio Supreme Court sets aside the TRO. Round 1 to OHSAA.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...ce/1116806002/


Just a matter of time now...
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  #23  
Old 08-28-18, 07:33 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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Too bad the OHSAA didn’t follow their bylaws when the Commissioner decided to treat cross country different than all other sports when they went to combined enrollment for 3 years. Or last year when they found they made a mistake counting the teams that ran in the District Championships two years ago and made no adjustment to divisional assignments last year after they found their mistake...
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Old 08-29-18, 06:46 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by runohio View Post
Too bad the OHSAA didn’t follow their bylaws when the Commissioner decided to treat cross country different than all other sports when they went to combined enrollment for 3 years. Or last year when they found they made a mistake counting the teams that ran in the District Championships two years ago and made no adjustment to divisional assignments last year after they found their mistake...
Or back a decade ago when we were over the threshold for a 4th division and they didnt add one.
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