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  #2791  
Old 12-08-18, 09:04 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Am I missing something or is BR arguing that their defense was helped by the offense turning the ball over and putting them in bad field position?
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  #2792  
Old 12-08-18, 09:55 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Crusaders said Browns had a top 15 defense. BR said that was for yardage given up and that in scoring defense they were dead last. BR said they gave up fewer yards than they probably should have bc they gave the opposition short fields due to turnovers and 3 and outs, thus making it look like they werent giving up a lot of yards. He said if they didnt give the opposition such short fields the defense would have given up even more yards. Crusaders thinks the Browns defense was good last year, BR took exception to that.

BR's point is the yardage given up stats were aided by a poor offense.
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  #2793  
Old 12-08-18, 04:12 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
Crusaders said Browns had a top 15 defense. BR said that was for yardage given up and that in scoring defense they were dead last. BR said they gave up fewer yards than they probably should have bc they gave the opposition short fields due to turnovers and 3 and outs, thus making it look like they werent giving up a lot of yards. He said if they didnt give the opposition such short fields the defense would have given up even more yards. Crusaders thinks the Browns defense was good last year, BR took exception to that.

BR's point is the yardage given up stats were aided by a poor offense.

I admire your diligence in not turning off that p!$$!ng contest weeks ago.
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  #2794  
Old 12-08-18, 05:04 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
Crusaders said Browns had a top 15 defense. BR said that was for yardage given up and that in scoring defense they were dead last. BR said they gave up fewer yards than they probably should have bc they gave the opposition short fields due to turnovers and 3 and outs, thus making it look like they werent giving up a lot of yards. He said if they didnt give the opposition such short fields the defense would have given up even more yards. Crusaders thinks the Browns defense was good last year, BR took exception to that.

BR's point is the yardage given up stats were aided by a poor offense.
BR thinks the defense was bad judging by their PPG allowed. He wants to put a lot of blame on the offense for the teams' struggles but doesn't seem to want to extend that to having a causal affect on overall performance of the defense, preferring to think the defense was bad regardless.

I said the defense was better than its PPG allowed.

The 2017 Browns' defense was:
- 6th in punts per drive
- 13th in FGs per drive
- 15th in yards per drive
- 16th in 3 and outs per drive
- 18th in plays per drive
- 19th in drive success rate

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...vestatsdef2017

To me, those stats do not indicate a defense that should've been historically bad in PPG. It seems like they were a middling unit (which is I think isn't bad considering its youth) thrown into a lot of bad situations.

The Browns' defense was also:
- 25th in points per drive
- 29th in average beginning line of scrimmage


I think it all goes back to his obsession with the QB; he doesn't want to admit Mayfield walked into a good situation as it would be, in some way, a concession against his QB-first theory. And since he's argued with me for years over this, he'd rather dog his own team than give any ground.
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  #2795  
Old 12-09-18, 10:44 AM
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BR1986FB BR1986FB is offline
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This whole STUPID argument was started because most Browns fans preferred Mayfield, Ward & Chubb over drafting Barkley at 1, which you NEVER do unless you have your QB and can win now, and ending up with Rosen or Allen handing him the ball. In Crusaders little "world", he's going to be right, regardless of the argument. He'll keep jamming that square peg (GUARANTEE Mayfield would've been there at 4 argument) into a round hole.

Why this has him so riled up, as a Steeler fan, when his own GM couldn't find a legit defensive back in the draft if it slapped him in the face, is amusing.
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  #2796  
Old 12-09-18, 11:24 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR1986FB View Post
This whole STUPID argument was started because most Browns fans preferred Mayfield, Ward & Chubb over drafting Barkley at 1, which you NEVER do unless you have your QB and can win now, and ending up with Rosen or Allen handing him the ball. In Crusaders little "world", he's going to be right, regardless of the argument. He'll keep jamming that square peg (GUARANTEE Mayfield would've been there at 4 argument) into a round hole.

Why this has him so riled up, as a Steeler fan, when his own GM couldn't find a legit defensive back in the draft if it slapped him in the face, is amusing.
I like Ward, but Mayfield, Chubb and Chubb would have been better. Never pass up a legit pass rusher.
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  #2797  
Old 12-09-18, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
I like Ward, but Mayfield, Chubb and Chubb would have been better. Never pass up a legit pass rusher.
I meant of the guys we got versus Crusaders proposed draft. Before the draft, I wanted Mayfield, Chubb and Chubb/Michel. TBH, the day of the draft I'd heard rumblings that they were targeting Ward at 4 and when the pick came I was screaming to take Chubb at 4. Happy with the pick goes.

Even if Barkley somehow fell to 4, I bet Dorsey would've passed on him.
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  #2798  
Old 12-09-18, 11:53 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR1986FB View Post
This whole STUPID argument was started because most Browns fans preferred Mayfield, Ward & Chubb over drafting Barkley at 1, which you NEVER do unless you have your QB and can win now, and ending up with Rosen or Allen handing him the ball. In Crusaders little "world", he's going to be right, regardless of the argument. He'll keep jamming that square peg (GUARANTEE Mayfield would've been there at 4 argument) into a round hole.

Why this has him so riled up, as a Steeler fan, when his own GM couldn't find a legit defensive back in the draft if it slapped him in the face, is amusing.
It is clear. If there is a QB whom you believe can lead your franchise for 10 plus seasons, and you need a QB, you get him no matter how good a RB may be.


The browns picking Mayfield was the right choice. My only question was this...could they have taken Barkley number one and then Mayfield at 4? So much mis information to know who really was wanting who.

But if theyreally thought BM was THE guy, and best QB in the draft which looks like they were right, you take him and see how the next few picks pan out.


Mayfield is EXACTLY what the browns needed. They needed a QB with that swagger to go aginst the big bad squeelers and ratbirds.
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  #2799  
Old 12-09-18, 12:05 PM
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BR1986FB BR1986FB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
It is clear. If there is a QB whom you believe can lead your franchise for 10 plus seasons, and you need a QB, you get him no matter how good a RB may be.


The browns picking Mayfield was the right choice. My only question was this...could they have taken Barkley number one and then Mayfield at 4? So much mis information to know who really was wanting who.

But if theyreally thought BM was THE guy, and best QB in the draft which looks like they were right, you take him and see how the next few picks pan out.


Mayfield is EXACTLY what the browns needed. They needed a QB with that swagger to go aginst the big bad squeelers and ratbirds.
If you are locked in on your franchise QB, which Doresy was, you don't take the chance of having to settle. A GM who rolls the dice "hoping" his guy will fall is an idiot.

Crusaders is cocksure Mayfield would've dropped to 4 where I was hearing right up to the pick that both the Giants & Jets were locked in on him.
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  #2800  
Old 12-09-18, 01:37 PM
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Browns defense is awful.
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  #2801  
Old 12-09-18, 02:41 PM
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BR1986FB BR1986FB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1227 View Post
Browns defense is awful.
For once we agree.

Thank god for Baker and the offense. Deep ball open all day. I'd go to Callaway deep on this opening drive.
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  #2802  
Old 12-09-18, 02:48 PM
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BR1986FB BR1986FB is offline
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And before you post your weekly Barkley stats, Crusader... save it. Posting them here is just showing you're a closet Browns fan.
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  #2803  
Old 12-09-18, 04:13 PM
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BR1986FB BR1986FB is offline
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Nice!
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