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  #31  
Old 01-04-18, 10:32 PM
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I paid my car off in 6 years after 0% financing and my mortgage rate is <4%. I’m in no hurry to pay off anything. Congrats on using that money to pay off your cheap debt early though, I guess. It probably cost you a lot of money.
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  #32  
Old 01-05-18, 08:09 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
You mean you assume you’re seeing people make the same mistakes, you don’t know.
No, I know what many people make and I see how they spend. The same ones who lost houses and vehicles after 2008. Then there are the younger kids who were too young to know any better. Same thing. It becomes a double edged sword. On one hand we are told to invest and save, which many people do, and on the other hand we are told to spend and buy, which many people do. When the economy is booming like it is now it becomes really EASY to spend. It is encouraged. Just sign here. The Dow hit 25,000 points and yet wage growth is sluggish and new jobs are usually in the low paying service sector.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-18, 08:11 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I paid my car off in 6 years after 0% financing and my mortgage rate is <4%. Iím in no hurry to pay off anything. Congrats on using that money to pay off your cheap debt early though, I guess. It probably cost you a lot of money.
Not really. I have the money so why not? Do you suggest I spend on more "things"? Pay off a loan at 3.5% or have it in my bank account?

Paid your car off in 6 years? You had a 7 or 8 year loan? On a car? Congrats.
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  #34  
Old 01-05-18, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Not really. I have the money so why not? Do you suggest I spend on more "things"? Pay off a loan at 3.5% or have it in my bank account?

Paid your car off in 6 years? You had a 7 or 8 year loan? On a car? Congrats.
Well, if you havenít learned about opportunity cost, Iím not going to teach you. But if your best idea for your money is to ďhave it in my bank accountĒ, then I agree you made a better decision paying off your cheap debt.

Btw, it was a 72-month interest free auto loan. It was a no-brainer to not pay it off early, even if my only idea was to leave it in a savings account.
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  #35  
Old 01-05-18, 09:23 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Can you rent a car without a credit card? Donít they hold a crazy amount of you use your debit card?
I had no Credit card for a time. Car rental (at least Enterprise) will accept a current Duke, Water bill etc that shows you are paid up to date. I think they hold $200 on a Debit card.
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  #36  
Old 01-05-18, 09:33 AM
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Thanks. I think there is a minimum they hold or 20-25% of the estimated amount, which ever is higher.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-18, 09:35 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Btw, it was a 72-month interest free auto loan. It was a no-brainer to not pay it off early, even if my only idea was to leave it in a savings account.
Haven't had a case yet where I couldn't significantly bargain down the price of a car, with a quicker pay-off or cash but if 72 months is what it took to get the payments down to where a buyer can make them, who am I to say.

With car biz, I think it's not only about who gets the money but how. With sales incentives and all, might get a better deal taking the load than cash. Hope it worked out for you.

Lose the money now, lose the money slowly. Each situation different I guess. You probably racked the numbers before agreeing but if a kid came to ME and asked whether they should take a 72 month auto loan.....

Being honest, I'm just not that patient. Not the best $ decision maker but I get those things out of my way and have found the price to drop very nicely when I held out cash. A car bought when you did? Turns out your route probably better if that upfront cash was instead thrown into a safe market.
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  #38  
Old 01-05-18, 09:39 AM
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Studies have shown you actually get a worse deal offering to pay cash or negotiating a shorter loan. I have a feeling the auto saleman is conning you into believing you are a shrewd dealmaker.
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  #39  
Old 01-05-18, 09:41 AM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Congrats on using that money to pay off your cheap debt early though, I guess. It probably cost you a lot of money.
Risk tolerance is a subjective matter. Pretty phallusish on your part.
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  #40  
Old 01-05-18, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
Risk tolerance is a subjective matter. Pretty phallusish on your part.
Lol, well you’re the phallus expert. Hilarious how a phallus expert like you believes it’s not dickish to accuse people of living above their means by not paying off cheap debt, but dickish to point out the obvious opportunity cost of doing so.
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  #41  
Old 01-05-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Studies have shown you actually get a worse deal offering to pay cash or negotiating a shorter loan. I have a feeling the auto saleman is conning you into believing you are a shrewd dealmaker.
Link ?
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  #42  
Old 01-05-18, 12:40 PM
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It’s widely available on google.com.
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  #43  
Old 01-05-18, 01:42 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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People still think paying cash gets you a better deal? That makes the dealership less money than you paying a loan, why would they give you a deal for them making less?
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  #44  
Old 01-05-18, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Pay off a loan at 3.5% or have it in my bank account?
There's a 3rd option that's usually better than either of the two you considered. Learning how to use debt to your advantage is a big thing that a lot of people don't get.
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  #45  
Old 01-05-18, 02:46 PM
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I should probably distinguish between new and used car sales. If you are buying a new car, you should never try to leverage cash for a better deal, because that’s not how they make money off you (the higher margins dealers get in finance deals incents them to push for financing by cutting a more attractive deal) and you will most likely get a worse deal in fact. If you are buying a used car, you will likely get at least a comparable deal and used car rates reduce the opportunity costs, which means you are likely better off paying as much upfront as you can afford. Hope this helps.
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  #46  
Old 01-05-18, 03:45 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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^^^^ Ever sell cars?

No car lot wants you either buying the car outright with cash or putting much of anything down. If they could they would always take 0 down and finance everything. The banks get in the way of that though.
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  #47  
Old 01-05-18, 04:17 PM
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^lol, god no, have you?
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  #48  
Old 01-05-18, 04:19 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Lol, well youíre the phallus expert. Hilarious how a phallus expert like you believes itís not dickish to accuse people of living above their means by not paying off cheap debt, but dickish to point out the obvious opportunity cost of doing so.
Your dickishness preceded his and thus prevailed.

I understand opportunity cost and I fully comprehend how money that could be paid down on cheap debt could also be invested elsewhere at a better return. However, unless one has a guaranteed investment that can earn more than the rate of cheap debt, there is an element of risk involved. Some people refuse to take those risks, and I can't find fault with that attitude.
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  #49  
Old 01-05-18, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
Your dickishness preceded his and thus prevailed.

I understand opportunity cost and I fully comprehend how money that could be paid down on cheap debt could also be invested elsewhere at a better return. However, unless one has a guaranteed investment that can earn more than the rate of cheap debt, there is an element of risk involved. Some people refuse to take those risks, and I can't find fault with that attitude.
I can, being so risk adverse that you’re willing to lose the value of your savings is stupid.
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  #50  
Old 01-05-18, 04:53 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
There's a 3rd option that's usually better than either of the two you considered. Learning how to use debt to your advantage is a big thing that a lot of people don't get.
I get all that. I do not understand why this so hard to talk about without being a d$ck? I'm sure you have it all figured out and are making millions on your debt.

I'd love to REALLY know what everyone does on here, what everyone makes, etc... I think we all would be really surprised at all the arrogant advice givers who have squat worth of experience.

I've been around and worked my way out of poverty. Raised by depression era folks. I live very comfortably but my idea of comfort and someone else's probably is a bit different. I survived the last economic downturn just fine and will the next one too but am simply pointing out that I see folks making the exact same mistakes they made before the last economic downturn.
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  #51  
Old 01-05-18, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I get all that. I do not understand why this so hard to talk about without being a d$ck? I'm sure you have it all figured out and are making millions on your debt.

I'd love to REALLY know what everyone does on here, what everyone makes, etc... I think we all would be really surprised at all the arrogant advice givers who have squat worth of experience.

I've been around and worked my way out of poverty. Raised by depression era folks. I live very comfortably but my idea of comfort and someone else's probably is a bit different. I survived the last economic downturn just fine and will the next one too but am simply pointing out that I see folks making the exact same mistakes they made before the last economic downturn.
Why is pointing out you aren’t maximizing your wealth by paying down cheap debt early dickish? Are you saying it’s irresponsible to invest money (index fund, etc.) instead of paying off cheap debt early?
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  #52  
Old 01-05-18, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I can, being so risk adverse that youíre willing to lose the value of your savings is stupid.
You aren't 'losing' anything when the rate of return isn't guaranteed. You are potentially losing some hypothetical gain as opposed to actually avoiding interest costs.
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  #53  
Old 01-05-18, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
You aren't 'losing' anything when the rate of return isn't guaranteed. You are potentially losing some hypothetical gain as opposed to actually avoiding interest costs.
The S&P has averaged nearly 10% over the past 100 years. Over the course of a 15 or 30 year mortgage, the odds are extremely high heís going to lose out paying off a 3.5% mortgage early.
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  #54  
Old 01-05-18, 05:30 PM
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I’d have to look to know the exact statistic, but pretty sure there’s never been a 10 year stretch where the SP has been down. The market in the short term is unpredictable, in the long term it goes up, much more than 3.5%.
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  #55  
Old 01-05-18, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
The S&P has averaged nearly 10% over the past 100 years. Over the course of a 15 or 30 year mortgage, the odds are extremely high heís going to lose out paying off a 3.5% mortgage early.
I wouldn't say 'extremely high'. There are also 15 and 30-year periods where The S&P has gone down. Some people prefer not to take that risk because they sleep better at night having no debt.

It's dickish to mock such people, IMO.
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  #56  
Old 01-05-18, 05:32 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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I wouldn't say 'extremely high'. There are also 15 and 30-year periods where The S&P has gone down.
Pretty sure this is absolutely false... will do some digging now.
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  #57  
Old 01-05-18, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
I’d have to look to know the exact statistic, but pretty sure there’s never been a 10 year stretch where the SP has been down. The market in the short term is unpredictable, in the long term it goes up, much more than 3.5%.
This is incorrect. Check out '68 through '92 or '00 through '14.

http://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-5...cal-chart-data
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  #58  
Old 01-05-18, 05:35 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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A down 10-year return has only happened once. If you bought the SP in 1928 and sold in 1938, that is the only possible time you would have lost money. And barely any at that.

http://observationsandnotes.blogspot...arket.html?m=1
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  #59  
Old 01-05-18, 05:37 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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A 20-year investment in the SP has never lost money.

http://observationsandnotes.blogspot...arket.html?m=1
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  #60  
Old 01-05-18, 05:37 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
This is incorrect. Check out '68 through '92 or '00 through '14.

http://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-5...cal-chart-data
In real life you also get dividends. My resources factor that in.

Btw my links are actually related to the Dow, but results would be very similar for the SP.
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