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  #1  
Old 12-27-17, 08:15 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Basketball Attendence

Can not believe how much attendance has dropped at H.S. basketball games. Marion Local played Saint Henry last week and the gym was not even 75% full, that game used to always be a sell out. In fact 15 years ago ML had a waiting list for season tickets not any more, it has been a long time since the Flyers have sold out the " Hangar ". This week ML plays in the Coldwater Holiday Tournament and I doubt if the Palace is more than 50% full for any of the games even the championship game.
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  #2  
Old 12-27-17, 11:33 AM
JElder JElder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Can not believe how much attendance has dropped at H.S. basketball games. Marion Local played Saint Henry last week and the gym was not even 75% full, that game used to always be a sell out. In fact 15 years ago ML had a waiting list for season tickets not any more, it has been a long time since the Flyers have sold out the " Hangar ". This week ML plays in the Coldwater Holiday Tournament and I doubt if the Palace is more than 50% full for any of the games even the championship game.
The play is soooo bad, it makes it hard to watch.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-17, 01:38 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I think it's happening everywhere. Too many other things for people to be doing anymore. I went to a game Friday night that I thought was going to be really well attended and they didn't open up the upstairs seating. Maybe not a sellout but I expected more people than were there that night.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-17, 03:00 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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I think weather is a factor for the rural schools. I know I don't even want to drive 5 miles to the school on days like today. High temp of 10 for the day. Add age to that, my case, and it is much nicer to sit in front of the fireplace watching TV with one of the dogs on my lap.
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Old 12-28-17, 09:21 AM
peebles peebles is offline
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I've noticed the same thing at my high school. The gym used to be packed with standing room only left if you didn't get a ticket early. I hadn't been to a game for years, but I recently went to see a game against our arch-rivals. I expected a packed house. While the crowd was pretty good, it wasn't a full house. It really surprised me; our gym used to be THE place to be on Friday and Saturday night.
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  #6  
Old 12-28-17, 09:25 AM
doverbuck doverbuck is offline
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Dover students are really showing up in big numbers,adult attendance not what it was prior to the recession of 2008 but it is better than the last couple of years.
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  #7  
Old 12-28-17, 09:41 AM
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Auggie Auggie is offline
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The bigger games in Cleveland still draw well, a lot of interest in certain key teams like Garfield Hts., SVSM, VASJ, Mentor, etc... and they pull in the hoop fans. I posted a picture from Benny vs Garfield game earlier with ropes holding back the stand rooming crowd on the baselines; I heard that they had the same sold out crowd for their game against Cleveland Central Catholic. Here is some video from the Garfield vs Shaker game, looks like a packed house to me. It appears that HS hoops is alive and well in the core urban areas.

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  #8  
Old 12-28-17, 09:55 AM
PioKnight45 PioKnight45 is offline
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You can't compare a small school football conference numbers and say basketball attendance is down. I'm not from that area but just with what I see coming in and out and tournament wise. Marion and those schools are fueled by football and basketball is just something to do. In NEO particularly the CLE area it's bigger than ever with the help of TJ Peatross and Steve Newton, in Central Ohio I feel like the basketball talent has exceeded football since 2015 and the crowds come out whether its Beechcroft or Pickerington Central. Just matters what area you're in. NEO, Central, and SW (more so Dunbar, Wayne, Moeller, St. X) will always have a good following because basketball is huge there even in there quote on quote "down years."
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Old 12-28-17, 12:13 PM
trojandave trojandave is offline
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I know that basketball attendance in the Portsmouth area is down overall and the gyms aren't that big. When Portsmouth played at Wheelersburg, there was a really good crowd but WHS's gym only has 9 rows on each side, and a student section behind one of the backboards.

Portsmouth's attendance is doing okay, but with 21 rows on one side and 10 on the other side, it looks like the numbers aren't that good. Oddly, the home fans sit on the side with 10 rows, with the "P" in the center circle facing the other direction.
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Old 12-28-17, 01:13 PM
Unlimited Potential Unlimited Potential is offline
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Attendance is outstanding in NEO as stated above. Major buzz happening in NEO and I'd say attendance has been up quite a bit compared to the last few years. Having must see players and players promoted by social media is key. The schools that slow it down and have final scores in the 40s aren't going to draw a lot regardless of location.
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  #11  
Old 12-28-17, 01:25 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I think it's obvious from this thread that there is a major disconnect happening in basketball. The very few "haves" are drawing in the casual fans and have excellent crowds. The vast majority of "have nots" are struggling through declining attendance.

In no way would I say that attendance in NEO is doing well. In fact, I can't remember a game in the last decade that I thought' "wow, this is a good crowd." It's mostly disappointment.

Interestingly, the attendance at the state tournament is suffering over these last 10 years. The usual suspects in the state tournament are the ones that are doing well with their attendance during the regular season. But the followings don't increase as they advance in the tournament.

The good old days of the whole community coming out to watch basketball games seems to be only in the past. It may take an incredible effort to get those average citizens to come out and support their school's kids in basketball.
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  #12  
Old 12-28-17, 06:06 PM
Myron Myron is offline
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I’m around NEO Basketball a lot and I think Auggie is on the money with it. Strong urban schools and major parochials draw well in this area, especially when you pit two of them together.

But, man, you can sit wherever you’d like at the predominately-white suburban public schools’ games, and sounds like that’s becoming true in a lot of rural districts.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-17, 08:15 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioKnight45 View Post
You can't compare a small school football conference numbers and say basketball attendance is down. I'm not from that area but just with what I see coming in and out and tournament wise. Marion and those schools are fueled by football and basketball is just something to do. In NEO particularly the CLE area it's bigger than ever with the help of TJ Peatross and Steve Newton, in Central Ohio I feel like the basketball talent has exceeded football since 2015 and the crowds come out whether its Beechcroft or Pickerington Central. Just matters what area you're in. NEO, Central, and SW (more so Dunbar, Wayne, Moeller, St. X) will always have a good following because basketball is huge there even in there quote on quote "down years."
I am from the area, and have season tickets. 15 years ago their was a waiting list for season tix at Marion Local not anymore. Flyers have 11 home games and the gym will probably be 75% full at best most nights. This from a school that has a good basketball history ( 2 state titles and numerous regional appearances). But it is not just Marion Local, very few schools in West Central Ohio draw well for bball anymore, even schools that do not have football struggle with attendance.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-17, 10:04 AM
boater boater is offline
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Ottawa- Glandorf is rather unique - but I have personal experience with this as when I moved back from Miami Fla in '87 I put my name on " the list" for season tickets. Got a call from the Athletic Director in 2012 that my name had come up for season tickets ! I no longer lived in Ottawa so I passed these on to my youngest sister. I still catch a game annually, typically in the districts or regionals - last night watching the Titans beat Perrysburg. Enjoy this clip :

http://www.13abc.com/content/sports/...466051633.html

Last edited by boater; 12-29-17 at 10:18 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-17, 10:24 AM
bass10 bass10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron View Post
Iím around NEO Basketball a lot and I think Auggie is on the money with it. Strong urban schools and major parochials draw well in this area, especially when you pit two of them together.

But, man, you can sit wherever youíd like at the predominately-white suburban public schoolsí games, and sounds like thatís becoming true in a lot of rural districts.
Yeh is that because white kids can't play? Remember the all white Jackson team won the SC last year and the suburban communities do back their schools.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-17, 11:43 AM
Myron Myron is offline
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Originally Posted by bass10 View Post
Yeh is that because white kids can't play? Remember the all white Jackson team won the SC last year and the suburban communities do back their schools.
Iím not saying that, because Jackson, Mentor, Upper Arlington, etc have proven otherwise. I guess in general Iíve noticed more of an apathy toward the sport (at the high school level) in the large majority of the predominantly-white suburbs.

Personally, Iíve really developed a distaste for the AAU overtones of how teams are assembled any more, and realize that the OHSAA will never get that genie back in the bottle. I sense that a lot of people in the aforementioned communities feel the same and have kind of turned their back on high school basketball
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  #17  
Old 12-29-17, 12:14 PM
bass10 bass10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron View Post
Iím not saying that, because Jackson, Mentor, Upper Arlington, etc have proven otherwise. I guess in general Iíve noticed more of an apathy toward the sport (at the high school level) in the large majority of the predominantly-white suburbs.

Personally, Iíve really developed a distaste for the AAU overtones of how teams are assembled any more, and realize that the OHSAA will never get that genie back in the bottle. I sense that a lot of people in the aforementioned communities feel the same and have kind of turned their back on high school basketball
Now all this I will definitely agree with. The transferring has ruined the HS game.
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  #18  
Old 12-29-17, 12:40 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boater View Post
Ottawa- Glandorf is rather unique - but I have personal experience with this as when I moved back from Miami Fla in '87 I put my name on " the list" for season tickets. Got a call from the Athletic Director in 2012 that my name had come up for season tickets ! I no longer lived in Ottawa so I passed these on to my youngest sister. I still catch a game annually, typically in the districts or regionals - last night watching the Titans beat Perrysburg. Enjoy this clip :

http://www.13abc.com/content/sports/...466051633.html
That is awesome. That is the kind of excitement about HS basketball that many of us remember from 30-40 years ago. It didn't matter how good the team was going to be or if they had a "special" player coming up, the community was going to support the team.
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  #19  
Old 12-29-17, 12:49 PM
Myron Myron is offline
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Originally Posted by boater View Post
Ottawa- Glandorf is rather unique - but I have personal experience with this as when I moved back from Miami Fla in '87 I put my name on " the list" for season tickets. Got a call from the Athletic Director in 2012 that my name had come up for season tickets ! I no longer lived in Ottawa so I passed these on to my youngest sister. I still catch a game annually, typically in the districts or regionals - last night watching the Titans beat Perrysburg. Enjoy this clip :

http://www.13abc.com/content/sports/...466051633.html
One of the best basketball environments in Ohio
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  #20  
Old 12-29-17, 02:11 PM
Qcity Qcity is offline
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Originally Posted by peebles View Post
I've noticed the same thing at my high school. The gym used to be packed with standing room only left if you didn't get a ticket early. I hadn't been to a game for years, but I recently went to see a game against our arch-rivals. I expected a packed house. While the crowd was pretty good, it wasn't a full house. It really surprised me; our gym used to be THE place to be on Friday and Saturday night.

Yep! When Barberton came to town in the mid-late '70's as one of the best teams in the state (ever) there were 4,200 in the stands (when the JV game started) .....pretty electric.
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  #21  
Old 12-29-17, 03:53 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Ohio is a rapidly aging state. The median age used to be in the late 20s/early 30s. It is now over 38, and in NEO it is often 41 or higher. The number of under-18s probably peaked around 2007 or so and will continue to decline unless something changes in Ohio where more people decide they want to establish a family here.

Consider also that the suburban communities are very atomized compared to the cities of the 60s/70s. You're less likely to go support the neighbor's kid. You might be working somewhere that isn't in town. Lots of factors at play.
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Old 12-30-17, 10:39 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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I have been attending small college games rather than high school and find it interesting that they actually cost less to attend than the local high school.

On the Marion Local thing, fans get bored watching a foregone conclusion. Try having a streak of losing seasons then build up for a state title run and those who can't remember seeing such a run will pack the gym again.
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  #23  
Old 12-30-17, 02:03 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
I have been attending small college games rather than high school and find it interesting that they actually cost less to attend than the local high school.

On the Marion Local thing, fans get bored watching a foregone conclusion. Try having a streak of losing seasons then build up for a state title run and those who can't remember seeing such a run will pack the gym again.
I disagree. Attendance is still very good for football in fact I believe the season tix are sold out for football. Part of the lack of attendance at ML for last several years I believe is results have not met fans expectations. However attendance is down for most MAC schools not just ML.
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Old 12-30-17, 03:28 PM
StateChampion2012 StateChampion2012 is online now
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
I disagree. Attendance is still very good for football in fact I believe the season tix are sold out for football. Part of the lack of attendance at ML for last several years I believe is results have not met fans expectations. However attendance is down for most MAC schools not just ML.
Coldwater is not know for its basketball. I'm sure our road attendance is pretty bad. Last year the CW vs Fort game was probably over 75% capacity but not by much. There's just some people that don't find basketball as watchable as it used to be.
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  #25  
Old 12-30-17, 05:06 PM
COACH_XYZ&12345 COACH_XYZ&12345 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
Ohio is a rapidly aging state. The median age used to be in the late 20s/early 30s. It is now over 38, and in NEO it is often 41 or higher. The number of under-18s probably peaked around 2007 or so and will continue to decline unless something changes in Ohio where more people decide they want to establish a family here.

Consider also that the suburban communities are very atomized compared to the cities of the 60s/70s. You're less likely to go support the neighbor's kid. You might be working somewhere that isn't in town. Lots of factors at play.


There is tremendous truth in what you have stated. Plus I believe many communities do not support basketball due to the fact of climate in Ohio and the number of games played. Traditionally families are less likely to travel to see the local high school team play on the road because there are more games to choose from versus traditionally five games in football and the weather is much favorable to draw interest. Just my opinion from my own indicators and knowing many people in my community flat out say following a basketball team for 20+ game is not in their interest. Also financial impact due to the number of games played could be a decision maker for many families or even individuals. IMHO.
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Old 12-30-17, 06:04 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by StateChampion2012 View Post
Coldwater is not know for its basketball. I'm sure our road attendance is pretty bad. Last year the CW vs Fort game was probably over 75% capacity but not by much. There's just some people that don't find basketball as watchable as it used to be.
That use to not be the case. The Pit was always packed, now with the crowds Coldwater attracts the Cavs would be hard press to fill the Pit 75% full. Do believe the quality of play has something to do with attendance in the MAC that and the lack of fundamentals. Don't know when the last time I saw a ML team make a two handed chest bounce pass.
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Old 12-30-17, 10:22 PM
Vike16 Vike16 is offline
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Princeton vs Winton Woods was sold out. They turned down about thousand people with over 3,000 inside tonight
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Old 12-31-17, 10:52 AM
ru4ml ru4ml is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Don't know when the last time I saw a ML team make a two handed chest bounce pass.
Do they even teach/coach/preach that anymore??? Or how to box out instead of just go for the ball. Or how about the cardinal rule when I played - don't give up the baseline.... That one gripes me when I see all the guys giving up a baseline drive for an easy bucket...Or how about the cross court pass another cardinal rule not to do....TOO many fundamentals appear not to be taught anymore...
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  #29  
Old 12-31-17, 12:21 PM
RAP RAP is offline
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Have you been to any games where the mid-court seats are empty because they are reserved and cost more. With the smaller fan bases that the typical school should get rid of reserved seating. I even noticed it at some football games. You have fans to right and left and then some just scattered in the prime seats. when I was younger I went to the games and watched guys that were celebrity like in my mind. Today those younger kids are put up an a pedestal at such a young age and specializing at such a young age that it is not part of the family routine to go watch the local high school. Heck these young fans and family have things to do on HS game nights. They have practice, conditioning, meeting with the trainer, skills training, strength training, and of course they can always be working on that muscle memory. This all just refers to kids 12 and under. None of this can be done without Dad and Mom's money so it all go back to the parents and what they think will be achieved by all this extra stuff. A smaller following of the high school sports and enough money spent by the time these kids get to college that at least half of college could have been paid for. I don't see crowd sizes getting any better, in fact it will probably get worse.
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Old 12-31-17, 12:44 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4ml View Post
Do they even teach/coach/preach that anymore??? Or how to box out instead of just go for the ball. Or how about the cardinal rule when I played - don't give up the baseline.... That one gripes me when I see all the guys giving up a baseline drive for an easy bucket...Or how about the cross court pass another cardinal rule not to do....TOO many fundamentals appear not to be taught anymore...
Fundamentals are terrible almost everywhere. IMO in most instances it reflects on youth travel ball culture and AAU where there's usually as many (or more) games than actual practices. A lot of "legit ball players" have so many ingrained bad habits by the time they get to 8th or 9th grade that they're almost impossible to break. Just my two cents. It's lessened the product while also lessening fan enthusiasm as a lot of the better teams are essentially stacked travel teams. I don't think attendance will ever bounce back except for the high-end Urban core teams (inner-city, inner-ring suburbs and parochial). State tournament attendance will continue to drop as most schools that fit those categories don't travel worth a crap outside of their city/metro area. The Fairlands of the state will still bring their whole community to Columbus, but those instances are going to be continually declining as talent further concentrates at D3 and D4 privates.
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