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  #31  
Old 09-12-18, 12:44 PM
satriani satriani is offline
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Every kid has things they need to work on when going to college, his situation is not unique. If the stories regarding his poor academics are true, he didn't help himself there either.

The body of work is the kid transferred in high school and played on at least 4 different AAU teams (all the major shoe teams in Ohio except for, I think, All-Ohio). Strikes me as unaccountable-always seems to be chasing the next thing or the 'easier' path. Time will tell if he will truly put in the work to prepare himself for success.

Contrast with Pete Nance or Jerome Hunter and you see what could happen if kids objectively assess their weaknesses and execute a plan to improve. Pete particularly worked on his physicality (which is still a work in progress) and going to Northwestern, obviously shows he took care of business in the classroom. Jerome, if he continues to improve his ball handling and outside shot, could be something really special. Both seemed to have been brutally honest with themselves and addressed their weaknesses. That skill will help them to continue to improve in many different aspects of their lives (athletics, academics, work, relationships, etc.) if they continue to use it.

Athletics provides great life lessons, often within the span of a couple of games. Bazley may still eventually make a living playing basketball, but he'll have to learn to overcome adversity (although some of his is self inflicted) and hold himself accountable. If he does, he has the potential to be very good.
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  #32  
Old 09-13-18, 12:30 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
4. What college player doesn't need to put on weight before entering the league? That's such a terrible excuse for skipping college. At Syracuse, he can have as much as he wants to eat and lock himself in the gym and the weight room. Do you really think he's going to care about academics? I'm sure Syracuse has plenty of people who will take care of that for him.
Depends on the situation, I would think.

Imagine for example a one-and-done recruit who can't qualify academically. Would it make sense to go to college just to sit out the only year you're likely to be at the school? Would it make sense for the college to "take care of the academics" for the player, in that scenario?

I don't know if that was Bazley's situation. There's no way we would know if it was; the only people who could legally tell us would have no reason to. I do know I didn't even raise an eyebrow at the decision to play G-league instead of college. College isn't for everyone--that part of v_o_r's post is not in doubt.

But to not play at all? That's a head scratcher.

I haven't seen him play many games since he left Finneytown, but my strong impression has been that he badly needs to play competitive basketball...where by "competitive" I mean games where winning and losing matters more than showcasing one's individual skills. We never had anyone with anywhere near his level of talent, but we've a lot of players have better high school careers because they had learned how, and were willing, to do what was necessary to win a game. Bradley Nelms comes to mind as a recent example. Or maybe a better one, because it's a similar level of athletic talent, was Benintendi at Madeira. It wasn't even his sport, but the contrast between Andrew Benintendi and Darius Bazley as high school basketball players was stark. Benintendi hated losing, he'd bust his gut to make sure it didn't happen, and that one attribute outweighed the countless physical advantages on the other side of the ledger.

Bazley has to learn that somehow, if he wants to have a basketball career. I'm not sure he was going to get what he needs in the G-league--like AAU it's to full of guys trying to showcase their own stuff. But he's sure as hell not going to find what he needs hanging out at home and working out in a local gym.
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  #33  
Old 09-13-18, 01:06 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by satriani View Post
The body of work is the kid transferred in high school and played on at least 4 different AAU teams (all the major shoe teams in Ohio except for, I think, All-Ohio). Strikes me as unaccountable-always seems to be chasing the next thing or the 'easier' path. Time will tell if he will truly put in the work to prepare himself for success.
As a fan and alum of the school he left, I have to say that I don't think that's a fair comment as respects the transfer. (The frequent changing of AAU teams is a different matter.) Finneytown basketball from 2015-2017 was a uniquely bad situation. If you didn't see it first-hand, whatever you're imagining probably doesn't come close.

If Griggs had been able to stay, I think Bazley could have gotten a lot out of the experience. But calling a promising player who left what came next "unaccountable" is like telling a young genius whose school won't even offer AP coursework that he should just suck it up and ignore the offers from CCD or St. X.
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  #34  
Old 09-14-18, 07:46 AM
satriani satriani is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
As a fan and alum of the school he left, I have to say that I don't think that's a fair comment as respects the transfer. (The frequent changing of AAU teams is a different matter.) Finneytown basketball from 2015-2017 was a uniquely bad situation. If you didn't see it first-hand, whatever you're imagining probably doesn't come close.

If Griggs had been able to stay, I think Bazley could have gotten a lot out of the experience. But calling a promising player who left what came next "unaccountable" is like telling a young genius whose school won't even offer AP coursework that he should just suck it up and ignore the offers from CCD or St. X.
Fair enough, I do not know the situation at Finneytown. I'll stand corrected there. However, I'll stand by my other comments. He's made some interesting decisions that raise red flags and hurt his chances to play at the highest level. Some may be due to bad advice but some may also be self inflicted. The fact that he's bypassing college altogether significantly raises the downside risk. He's all in on getting paid to play basketball. What's the plan B?
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  #35  
Old 10-22-18, 12:40 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Bazley gets a $14,000,000 deal from New Balance with $1,000,000 guaranteed.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-18, 01:01 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Wow! Here's a link to a story on this contract. I guess New Balance may start an add campaign about his "journey to the pros". A little bit unbelievable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/s...w-balance.html
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  #37  
Old 10-23-18, 06:58 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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I was just going to post a story about this.

From what I've read, New Balance is trying to get into the NBA to compete with Nike, UA, Adidas, etc. They've already gotten into MLB, and I would assume NBA and NFL are next.

Makes sense for both sides IMO, Bazley wants to be the "face" of New Balance while New Balance is taking a bit of a gamble, putting all their chips into an unproven guy who isn't even playing competitive basketball at any level this year.

This will either be a genius move by NB or it will crash and burn. I wonder if other top prospects will see players like Bazley getting $1 million guaranteed right out of HS and think more about taking his route. However, the league is probably heading towards eliminating the one and done rule by 2021 anyways, so this might not matter in the long run.
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  #38  
Old 10-23-18, 08:24 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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So New Balance is going to make basketball shoes? My money is on that plan failing badly.

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  #39  
Old 10-23-18, 10:31 AM
Sports Jock and Chad Sports Jock and Chad is offline
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New Balance did make basketball shoes a few years back...they weren't great but we bought some because they offered wide and x-tra wide...I know they make cleats as well...I guess they are gambling to get into the big market share...good luck to Darius
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  #40  
Old 10-23-18, 11:45 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sports Jock and Chad View Post
New Balance did make basketball shoes a few years back...they weren't great but we bought some because they offered wide and x-tra wide...I know they make cleats as well...I guess they are gambling to get into the big market share...good luck to Darius
I've bought their cleats and will continue to now. Basketball is a different animal though. I personally dont see them being successful with basketball.

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  #41  
Old 10-23-18, 08:30 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I'd love to see how this contract was written up. The $14M looks great in headlines and I'm not going to shy away from $1M either, but I'm guessing New Balance covered themselves if Bazley doesn't even get to the NBA. $1M to a company like NB is big but nowhere close to what they're throwing at female track athletes. If he makes it, they win big without spending much money in a bidding war with the other big name companies. If he folds then they're out what amounts to change.

It should be noted, on a marketing standpoint, I'm not sure NB could've signed anyone and got the immediate exposure they did from signing Bazley for the $1M. He was already a headline name mainly due to his questionable decisions compared to what he's actually done on the court.
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  #42  
Old 10-24-18, 06:23 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
I've bought their cleats and will continue to now. Basketball is a different animal though. I personally dont see them being successful with basketball.

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People were saying the same thing about Under Armour a few years back before they grabbed Steph Curry and made him their face. New Balance is looking to do the same.

I will say their baseball cleats are really nice and lot of big name MLB players endorse them. I hate to say it, but making basketball shoes isn't rocket science. Seems like with the NBA it's all about who you're endorsing. If Steph Curry had been a flop, UA wouldn't be nearly as successful in the Bball shoe game as they are.
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  #43  
Old 10-24-18, 09:19 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
People were saying the same thing about Under Armour a few years back before they grabbed Steph Curry and made him their face. New Balance is looking to do the same.

I will say their baseball cleats are really nice and lot of big name MLB players endorse them. I hate to say it, but making basketball shoes isn't rocket science. Seems like with the NBA it's all about who you're endorsing. If Steph Curry had been a flop, UA wouldn't be nearly as successful in the Bball shoe game as they are.
Steph Curry and Darius Bazely are NOT the same. Another big difference between UA and New Balance is New Balance is a shoe company with zero name recognition in basketball. UA was an athletic wear company with tons of name recognition across all sports, let alone basketball. All they needed was a large name player to make their shoes legit because they were already known as one of the top names in sports.

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  #44  
Old 10-25-18, 01:47 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Steph Curry and Darius Bazely are NOT the same. Another big difference between UA and New Balance is New Balance is a shoe company with zero name recognition in basketball. UA was an athletic wear company with tons of name recognition across all sports, let alone basketball. All they needed was a large name player to make their shoes legit because they were already known as one of the top names in sports.

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You're right about a lot of your points. However, UA had ZERO stake in any sort of shoe endeavors before Steph came along and they rode his coattails and now are big time players in every sport. New Balance is one of the larger "casual" shoe makers in the game and has been growing a ton of steam in the MLB. It's only a matter of time before they break into the NBA IMO. It's not a matter of if, it's when, and they are putting their eggs in the Bazley basket, so to speak (which isn't the smartest move by them IMO).

At least when UA signed Curry, he was an emerging star for a playoff team that people knew were trending upwards. NB is taking a gamble on an unproven player who isn't even going to play competitive basketball this year (and many scouts say he didn't look that great the last few times he has played).
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  #45  
Old 10-25-18, 02:14 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
You're right about a lot of your points. However, UA had ZERO stake in any sort of shoe endeavors before Steph came along and they rode his coattails and now are big time players in every sport. New Balance is one of the larger "casual" shoe makers in the game and has been growing a ton of steam in the MLB. It's only a matter of time before they break into the NBA IMO. It's not a matter of if, it's when, and they are putting their eggs in the Bazley basket, so to speak (which isn't the smartest move by them IMO).

At least when UA signed Curry, he was an emerging star for a playoff team that people knew were trending upwards. NB is taking a gamble on an unproven player who isn't even going to play competitive basketball this year (and many scouts say he didn't look that great the last few times he has played).
They signed Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Anquan Boldin in 2010, Julio Jones and Cam Newton in 2011 to wear UA cleats during games. To say they are big time players in every sport strictly because of Steph is false. They made their mark on football cleats before moving to Steph.
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  #46  
Old 10-25-18, 05:00 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Maybe a more relevant comparison is that in 2008, three years before Curry, UA signed Brandon Jennings to a deal. He was their first basketball endorser; they signed him straight out of high school. They didn't even have a basketball shoe yet.
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  #47  
Old 10-26-18, 12:21 AM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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Fine print

From a different article: Bazley will be paid a $200,000 base salary annually over five years, assuming he is on an NBA roster in the second year and in the league each season thereafter. So $200,000 guaranteed, not $1M. Playing pickup for a year isn't the best path to years 2-5 of this deal
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  #48  
Old 10-26-18, 12:35 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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I want to be positive here, but I really dont think this is going to end well.

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  #49  
Old 10-26-18, 06:12 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
Maybe a more relevant comparison is that in 2008, three years before Curry, UA signed Brandon Jennings to a deal. He was their first basketball endorser; they signed him straight out of high school. They didn't even have a basketball shoe yet.
I forgot about this one. Luckily UA was able to recover, but I can see Bazley going down the same path as Jennings. Maybe he has a cup of tea in the NBA, but I don't see it ending well. But, to be fair, there probably aren't any established NBA players right now that would drop their current deal with Nike, UA, Adidas, etc for a company in NB that has zero stake in the basketball game. So NB has to latch onto someone and entice them with a big payday in order to get their foot in the door in the NBA and hope others take notice.
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  #50  
Old 10-26-18, 06:46 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I forgot about this one. Luckily UA was able to recover, but I can see Bazley going down the same path as Jennings. Maybe he has a cup of tea in the NBA, but I don't see it ending well.
Brandon Jennings had a 10 year career that ended just last year and averaged nearly 17 points and 7 assists for his career. There's still a good chance he ends up on a roster if a team is in need of a back up point guard. He's made over $40 million dollars just on basketball contracts. Bazley would be very fortunate to have Jennings career trajectory. What are you talking about?!
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  #51  
Old 10-26-18, 06:58 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Brandon Jennings had a 10 year career that ended just last year and averaged nearly 17 points and 7 assists for his career. There's still a good chance he ends up on a roster if a team is in need of a back up point guard. He's made over $40 million dollars just on basketball contracts. Bazley would be very fortunate to have Jennings career trajectory. What are you talking about?!
The way you just described Brandon Jennings is like he was a perennial all star and carried teams to championships. Jennings played on 6 different NBA teams, 3 overseas teams, and was in the D-league a few times in 10 years. Players that are that good don't play on 9 different teams and have to bounce back and forth between China and the NBA. Jennings was a solid player when he first came into the league, but quickly declined. He didn't average 17 PPG, he averaged 14 PPG and 5 APG over 10 years, but over the last 5 years, he's averaged 6 PPG in the NBA and (outside of 1 year where he played in 50 games), he hasn't played more than 25 games in a season in the NBA (but a simple Google search could tell you all of this).

To say that Bazley would be fortunate to have Jennings' career is laughable. Bazley is supposed to be a "star", not a flash in the pan for 5 years and then drop off. I don't think New Balance is paying him 16 million to be a 5 year NBA player and then bounce around teams and China.
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  #52  
Old 10-26-18, 07:24 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
The way you just described Brandon Jennings is like he was a perennial all star and carried teams to championships. Jennings played on 6 different NBA teams, 3 overseas teams, and was in the D-league a few times in 10 years. Players that are that good don't play on 9 different teams and have to bounce back and forth between China and the NBA. Jennings was a solid player when he first came into the league, but quickly declined. He didn't average 17 PPG, he averaged 14 PPG and 5 APG over 10 years, but over the last 5 years, he's averaged 6 PPG in the NBA and (outside of 1 year where he played in 50 games), he hasn't played more than 25 games in a season in the NBA (but a simple Google search could tell you all of this).

To say that Bazley would be fortunate to have Jennings' career is laughable. Bazley is supposed to be a "star", not a flash in the pan for 5 years and then drop off. I don't think New Balance is paying him 16 million to be a 5 year NBA player and then bounce around teams and China.
All I said was he had a 10 year career, averaged nearly 17 and 7 and made over $40 million in NBA contracts. I'm really not sure how that is painting him as a perennial all star and carried teams to championships. You are right that I had the wrong averages, I was looking at his Per 36 numbers. Either way, 14 and 5 for his career, 10 years and over $40 million in NBA contracts is still a solid career. Doesn't matter if he rode the bench for every game or started every game. While not perfect, PER is as good as a measure of an NBA player out there. The average NBA player has a PER of 15.0. Brandon Jennings career PER was 15.7.

Since when is Bazley supposed to be a star? He wasn't even a top 10 player in his own recruiting class. He was #17. The following were also ranked #17 in their respective classes:
2017 - Gary Trent Jr, 2nd round pick, 37th overall
2016 - Jarrett Allen, 1st round pick, 22nd overall
2015 - Dwayne Bacon, 2nd round pick, 40th overall
2014 - Daniel Hamilton, 2nd round pick, 56th overall
2013 - Bobby Portis, 1st round pick, 22nd overall
2012 - Glenn Robinson, 2nd round pick, 40th overall
The average #17 recruit for the last 6 years was the 36th pick. I think you need to adjust your expectations on Bazley. No one, other than maybe his mother and some friends, expected Bazley to be a star in the NBA.

And you're right, New Balance won't be paying him $16 million, the contract maxes out at $14 million. And Brandon Jennings played 10 years in the NBA, not 5.

Last edited by Taco MacArthur; 10-26-18 at 08:16 AM.
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  #53  
Old 10-26-18, 11:43 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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A little perspective here: how many Cincinnati-area players have had better NBA careers than Brandon Jennings?

If we stay on the Ohio side of the river and don't extend all the way to Middletown, there's nobody that matches Jenning's PER. Brian Grant had a 14.9. LaSalle Thompson and Tyrone Hill had long careers in the 13-14 range--you could maybe argue that their career value was comparable.

That's all I've got that's even close.

If Bazley were somehow able to match Jennings's career, if he's first-team all-rookie ahead of James Harden (or whoever the equivalent is when Bazley's a rookie), is still playing pro ball when he's 30, was one of the most successful 4-5 players ever to come from the area, pulled in 8-9 figures in contract and shoe deals, I don't think anyone including his mother and friends would be all that unhappy with how things turned out.
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  #54  
Old 10-26-18, 11:48 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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I want to be positive here, but I really dont think this is going to end well.

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He's got a job. Things could be a lot worse.

Really, I think it depends on how the people around him in Boston look after him. It's not the worst start in life I can imagine, all things considered.
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  #55  
Old 10-26-18, 02:04 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
A little perspective here: how many Cincinnati-area players have had better NBA careers than Brandon Jennings?

If we stay on the Ohio side of the river and don't extend all the way to Middletown, there's nobody that matches Jenning's PER. Brian Grant had a 14.9. LaSalle Thompson and Tyrone Hill had long careers in the 13-14 range--you could maybe argue that their career value was comparable.

That's all I've got that's even close.

If Bazley were somehow able to match Jennings's career, if he's first-team all-rookie ahead of James Harden (or whoever the equivalent is when Bazley's a rookie), is still playing pro ball when he's 30, was one of the most successful 4-5 players ever to come from the area, pulled in 8-9 figures in contract and shoe deals, I don't think anyone including his mother and friends would be all that unhappy with how things turned out.
You may be right that it will turn out fine for Bazely--I'd have to add Hamilton Taft's Kevin Grevey who had a 10 year pro career with Washington and Milwaukee averaging about 12.0 per game and started on the Bullets World Champion team in 1977-78. Grevey averaged 15.5, 15.5, 14.0, 17.2 and 13.3 from 77-78 to 81-82 as well scoring over 1800 points as a 3 year starter at Kentucky and graduating as the 2nd leading all-time scorer behind Dan Issel (now 7th as 4 year players are in the 2nd-6th spots). Grevey definitely one of the best HS players from the Cincy area.
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  #56  
Old 10-26-18, 05:03 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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You may be right that it will turn out fine for Bazely--I'd have to add Hamilton Taft's Kevin Grevey who had a 10 year pro career with Washington and Milwaukee averaging about 12.0 per game and started on the Bullets World Champion team in 1977-78. Grevey averaged 15.5, 15.5, 14.0, 17.2 and 13.3 from 77-78 to 81-82 as well scoring over 1800 points as a 3 year starter at Kentucky and graduating as the 2nd leading all-time scorer behind Dan Issel (now 7th as 4 year players are in the 2nd-6th spots). Grevey definitely one of the best HS players from the Cincy area.
He's the first player I looked up because I'm from that era (well, almost--I was in junior high when he was playing)--he would have been next on my list but his PER doesn't quite match up with the other three and certainly not with Jennings (it's a little under 13).

I wasn't so much making a forecast for Bazley as responding to the posts scoffing at Jennings's career. Just sticking in the association is a major accomplishment and you've got to be a hell of a player to do it. A decade as a starter/rotation player? First team all-rookie? What percentage of the kids dreaming of a basketball career end up with that on their resume?
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  #57  
Old 10-29-18, 06:45 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Since when is Bazley supposed to be a star? He wasn't even a top 10 player in his own recruiting class. He was #17. The following were also ranked #17 in their respective classes

.
Bazley is #13 in his recruiting class, not 17. But please, continue to make false claims. Everything you've written in this thread has been wrong

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/b...018/order/true

In 2014, a kid from Kentucky was ranked #13 and went to THE Ohio State University by the name of D'Angelo Russell

In 2013, another top NBA draft pick by the name of Noah Vonleh was #13

Using class rankings to say that "this kid has no expectations" is ridiculous. The #1 ranked player in 2016 was someone named Harry Giles, who was drafted 20th overall by the Kings in 2017.

Not everyone who is top ranked in their class goes on to be a star, and not everyone who isn't a "top 10 recruit" is a bust. A guy by the name of Steph Curry was ranked number 256 in the country in HS (depending on where you look). He turned out to have a pretty nice career I would say.

But please, continue to say because Bazley isn't a "top 10 recruit" that he has no expectations. By taking this "internship" from New Balance, he has a whole new set of expectations from this company.
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  #58  
Old 10-29-18, 11:33 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Ba...oup=HighSchool

He was the composite #17 recruit. Composite takes the average of ESPN, Rivals and 247. It is a much better measure than any one single recruiting service.

Russell and Vonleh are stars in your book? It's ironic you chose Russell for this comparison. Going into his 4th year, Russell's career averages are 14.6ppg and 4.3apg. As you pointed out earlier, Brandon Jennings average 14 and 5 for his career. FWIW, through 4 years, Jennings averaged 17 and 5.7

Giles didn't drop because of talent. He dropped because of injury concerns. 2 torn ACLs, a torn MCL, torn meniscus before college, another knee surgery in college, only 11.5 minutes per game across 26 games, teams start to worry if you can play 20+ minutes over 82+ games.

I didn't say he has no chance of being a star just because he was the #17 recruit. I said no one other than his mother, friends and apparently you expect him to be a star.

Last edited by Taco MacArthur; 10-29-18 at 11:45 AM.
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