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  #31  
Old 08-30-18, 10:39 AM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Where did these bureaucratic ideas come from that you can't criticize a referee's performance. They are in a paid position, if you receive a check for referring a game (and high school is $100 at some schools) then you owe it to every person there to not only give your best, but know and understand soccer. What world do you live in where you receive payment for something, and are above criticism. If you suck, and you come and collect money, everyone deserves to tell you, that you suck in hopes that you either get better or stop coming altogether. Its called "skin in the game", as well as its time proven by the "Lindy Effect".
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  #32  
Old 08-30-18, 11:09 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
Where did these bureaucratic ideas come from that you can't criticize a referee's performance. They are in a paid position, if you receive a check for referring a game (and high school is $100 at some schools) then you owe it to every person there to not only give your best, but know and understand soccer. What world do you live in where you receive payment for something, and are above criticism. If you suck, and you come and collect money, everyone deserves to tell you, that you suck in hopes that you either get better or stop coming altogether. Its called "skin in the game", as well as its time proven by the "Lindy Effect".
In this case, it appears that the guy complaining didn't know what he was talking about.
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  #33  
Old 08-30-18, 02:12 PM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Was supposed to be a reply to the person who said something to the effect of, if you complain then go get a license and shut up. Also an answer to the overarching and pervasive belief that if you are a referee you are in a special category that is above reproach or admonition.
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  #34  
Old 08-30-18, 03:39 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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I can't think of a school where a referee is getting 100 for a "single". At least in NE Ohio, depending on the league, AR's are getting 40-50 (JV ref fee is in that range as well) for a game while the (center) referee for a varsity game is getting 50-60.

Nobody is saying you can't criticize the officiating, just that it might be counter-productive to do so, depending on the way in which one goes about it.
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  #35  
Old 08-31-18, 11:26 AM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
Was supposed to be a reply to the person who said something to the effect of, if you complain then go get a license and shut up. Also an answer to the overarching and pervasive belief that if you are a referee you are in a special category that is above reproach or admonition.
We as referees owe nothing to the fans, especially those who don't know the game. We are doing our services for the players, coaches, and schools. Does everyone in the service industry get ridiculed for their performance? Not everyone, but those that do also have the right to remove the person from the facility from where those services are being performed. So that's fine if you want to ridicule referees behind a keyboard because you know you most likely won't get tossed from it, but just know that doing it on site to a point that it's affecting the performance of the referee, you may get tossed from the game location. Like it's been said numerous times, if you can do better like those whiners think they can, get on out there in the field and have at it. Mistakes are human. Knowledge is power. If you don't have knowledge of the game, don't think you have the power to criticize those officiating it.

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  #36  
Old 08-31-18, 03:42 PM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatneff View Post
We as referees owe nothing to the fans, especially those who don't know the game. We are doing our services for the players, coaches, and schools. Does everyone in the service industry get ridiculed for their performance? Not everyone, but those that do also have the right to remove the person from the facility from where those services are being performed. So that's fine if you want to ridicule referees behind a keyboard because you know you most likely won't get tossed from it, but just know that doing it on site to a point that it's affecting the performance of the referee, you may get tossed from the game location. Like it's been said numerous times, if you can do better like those whiners think they can, get on out there in the field and have at it. Mistakes are human. Knowledge is power. If you don't have knowledge of the game, don't think you have the power to criticize those officiating it.

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Don't try the straw man approach. There are many points of regression between not criticizing a referee and abusing the referee.

The fans give rise to a sports popularity, thus $ into the sport, thus the need to make fair competition (as unfair is Lindy sure to fail), which is why you have officials, who owe it to anyone in proximity of something as part of their position to do the best possible for the money they make. All service industries are under the microscope of public scrutiny, referees' positions are not philanthropic despite what they convey.

Nobody is supporting abusing referees or being anything other than respectful, not evenly tacitly implying it.

If you are receiving pay for a service rendered and it is terrible, you have every moral and ethical right to say so. It also is keeps symmetry
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  #37  
Old 09-01-18, 03:44 PM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
Don't try the straw man approach. There are many points of regression between not criticizing a referee and abusing the referee.

The fans give rise to a sports popularity, thus $ into the sport, thus the need to make fair competition (as unfair is Lindy sure to fail), which is why you have officials, who owe it to anyone in proximity of something as part of their position to do the best possible for the money they make. All service industries are under the microscope of public scrutiny, referees' positions are not philanthropic despite what they convey.

Nobody is supporting abusing referees or being anything other than respectful, not evenly tacitly implying it.

If you are receiving pay for a service rendered and it is terrible, you have every moral and ethical right to say so. It also is keeps symmetry
The service rendered being terrible is subjective. When that opinion comes from those who don't know anything about the game, then it's idiotic. Coming on a message board and not listening to what is being said from knowledgeable posters and continuing to berate referees is abusive. But hey, freedom of speech, right?

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  #38  
Old 09-03-18, 10:13 AM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Originally Posted by phatneff View Post
The service rendered being terrible is subjective. When that opinion comes from those who don't know anything about the game, then it's idiotic. Coming on a message board and not listening to what is being said from knowledgeable posters and continuing to berate referees is abusive. But hey, freedom of speech, right?

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Nobody has 'abused' any referees in this chat. And the service rendered being terrible is not subjective (outside of a few people who criticize). Human beings through use of heuristics have set anchor points that converge on for the most part a statistical center. People, especially crowds ("Wisdom of Crowds" by James Surowiecki) have anchor points were in a split second not only do they know if a call is wrong but have an a set anchor point to know when calls are wrong more than the average, as people have built in understanding of this in split seconds through taking in previous sporting events (see Kahneman's work mainly "Thinking Fast and Slow" and "Maps of bounded Rationality"), using what I think is referred to as attribution substitution. All to say, these aren't opinions, people with such a high order of accuracy can tell if someone is good or bad at something without having to be trained in something but seeing something a handful of times.
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  #39  
Old 09-03-18, 01:15 PM
concreek concreek is offline
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From the movie Billy Madison:

Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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  #40  
Old 09-04-18, 07:47 AM
Kickin Wing Kickin Wing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concreek View Post
From the movie Billy Madison:

Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Spot on Concreek!
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  #41  
Old 09-04-18, 05:09 PM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concreek View Post
From the movie Billy Madison:

Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
If you went to the movie theater and saw a movie filmed with an iphone, you'd know it wasn't done with high quality. How? Do you make films..no, do you make cameras...no, do you develop components of cameras...no. Its called Heuristics taken from samples you have previously seen and computing a probability within an anchored center to determine what you should reasonably expect in quality of image in a movie, without having to ever know anything or do anything in relation to films.

Same thing applies when you go to a restaurant and can judge staff and food, without being an "expert" in any of those areas.

Now apply thee same to knowing if a soccer referee is good or bad.

If you don't get that, then I would sound dumb to you.
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  #42  
Old 09-04-18, 10:13 PM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickin Wing View Post
Spot on Concreek!
Agreed!!

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  #43  
Old 09-04-18, 11:18 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
If you went to the movie theater and saw a movie filmed with an iphone, you'd know it wasn't done with high quality. How? Do you make films..no, do you make cameras...no, do you develop components of cameras...no. Its called Heuristics taken from samples you have previously seen and computing a probability within an anchored center to determine what you should reasonably expect in quality of image in a movie, without having to ever know anything or do anything in relation to films.

Same thing applies when you go to a restaurant and can judge staff and food, without being an "expert" in any of those areas.

Now apply thee same to knowing if a soccer referee is good or bad.

If you don't get that, then I would sound dumb to you.
You're trying too hard to sound smart. It's not working.
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  #44  
Old 09-05-18, 09:26 AM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
Nobody has 'abused' any referees in this chat.
The entire purpose of this thread was to abuse referees.

Quote:
soccer refs are old and fat and quite weird .
Quote:
because you seem to side with these weirdo species
Quote:
but ref still made a do over bc he said there was trash talk going on and other official was talking to players behind the PK so FAT ref decared a re-do
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they are all old ,fat ,poor, no life goofs for the most part .
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  #45  
Old 09-05-18, 09:59 AM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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^^^ and this second page is fairly pointless as the refs on here have already pointed out that the subject ref was most likely correct.
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  #46  
Old 09-05-18, 10:57 AM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
You're trying too hard to sound smart. It's not working.
The explanation you quoted was an attempt to explain something how I would to my daughter, it was so facile that it couldn't possibly be an attempt to sound smart.

If you take it as trying to sound smart, then explain it better in layman terms please. Daniel Kahneman won a noble prize for his work in psychology and economics, and I've tried to be a compendious.

If you can refute the claims of Mr. Kahneman then please do so, you'll win a fields medal.

If you have nothing to add, other than trying to be invidious and detractive then mature some. I'm not here to convince 'fan boys' of facts, but looking to gain and convey facts that can relate to sports and contribute in a meaningful way.

I learned alot from the author Nassim Nicolas Taleb, one thing being if I don't understand something, more than likely its my limited understanding that is the problem than the presenter of a subject. A good place to start in life
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  #47  
Old 09-05-18, 12:02 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
The explanation you quoted was an attempt to explain something how I would to my daughter, it was so facile that it couldn't possibly be an attempt to sound smart.

If you take it as trying to sound smart, then explain it better in layman terms please. Daniel Kahneman won a noble prize for his work in psychology and economics, and I've tried to be a compendious.

If you can refute the claims of Mr. Kahneman then please do so, you'll win a fields medal.

If you have nothing to add, other than trying to be invidious and detractive then mature some. I'm not here to convince 'fan boys' of facts, but looking to gain and convey facts that can relate to sports and contribute in a meaningful way.

I learned alot from the author Nassim Nicolas Taleb, one thing being if I don't understand something, more than likely its my limited understanding that is the problem than the presenter of a subject. A good place to start in life
Still trying too hard
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  #48  
Old 09-05-18, 01:05 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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This is by FAR.... the most entertaining thread I've ever read on Yappi.
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  #49  
Old 09-05-18, 01:37 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post

If you are receiving pay for a service rendered and it is terrible, you have every moral and ethical right to say so. It also is keeps symmetry
Symmetry?
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  #50  
Old 09-05-18, 08:42 PM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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What happened to the green frog?
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  #51  
Old 09-06-18, 11:24 AM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Originally Posted by ammtd34 View Post
Symmetry?
Symmetry is an idea best explained by Nassim Taleb, but it essentially means that if something isn't balanced (symmetrical), such as if you can provide a bad service and its not symmetrical with a bad review then it is unbalanced and therefore is not an 'idea' that will last. So if you can keep doing bad work, and shame/quiet/silence people who would say something bad, then the system is going to be unbalanced and therefore not work.

So in this example, if someone can go ref a game and take money and then do a horrible job and not give there best, or whatever it may be as to why it was far below an expected return, and then someone says the ref was bad (respectfully) and then everyone chimes in with "then do it yourself", "you shouldn't criticize a referee" then the system is unbalanced and then seems to lead to a whole host of people being very upset with the standard of referring, and if there was no solution angry people tend to move on to other things
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  #52  
Old 09-06-18, 11:29 AM
stamfordbridge stamfordbridge is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Still trying too hard
I don't know what you are even referring to, I write on here as I write anywhere else, and write in the same fashion as I converse.
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  #53  
Old 09-06-18, 11:59 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
I don't know what you are even referring to, I write on here as I write anywhere else, and write in the same fashion as I converse.
Keep trying buttercup.
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  #54  
Old 09-06-18, 03:44 PM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
Symmetry is an idea best explained by Nassim Taleb,
Is he related to Aqib Taleb??
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  #55  
Old 09-11-18, 10:25 AM
Kickin Wing Kickin Wing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamfordbridge View Post
...and not give there best
Who are you to determine what their best is? Maybe they are giving their best. Maybe its just not Stamford quality...

If you could explain this using the Urban Dictionary it would really help me...

;-)
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  #56  
Old 09-11-18, 08:36 PM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickin Wing View Post

If you could explain this using the Urban Dictionary it would really help me...

;-)
Lol

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  #57  
Old 09-14-18, 01:53 PM
soccerlogic soccerlogic is offline
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It is perfectly ok to criticize the refs. It's not ok to abuse a ref. There are some very good refs and there are some that are just bad.

Like any other service industry, you rarely hear a peep when things go the way it should. It's when things go badly you hear people complain. It doesn't mean it's not justified.

The refs on here, need to quite being so defensive and actually think about what people are saying. When someone complains about the ref, the immediate response is they don't know the game. Lots of us know the game and the rules. We know when we see bad reffing. Like pornography, you know what it is when you see it. ha ha

What I have seen so far this year:
An AR spending game time trying to look up the skirts of the co-eds sitting behind him.
A player getting picked up and thrown down in front of an AR and no call was made.
An AR not able to keep up with the speed of play so was consistently out of position. Led to some bad calls.
A player with a clear goal scoring opportunity, no one between player and goalie and player with ball gets tripped from behind. Foul was called and no card given.

I could go on and on. But you get the idea. The response isn't telling someone to become a ref and make it better. It's the people in charge, they need to make it better. Truly Listen to the coaches and others and work on making it better.

Here is an easy one, know which games are heated rivalries, and send an experienced and highly ranked ref to those games.

I have no doubt, that many of refs are truly trying to do the best they can, but there are some. oh my.
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  #58  
Old 09-14-18, 02:23 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerlogic View Post
It is perfectly ok to criticize the refs. It's not ok to abuse a ref. There are some very good refs and there are some that are just bad.

Like any other service industry, you rarely hear a peep when things go the way it should. It's when things go badly you hear people complain. It doesn't mean it's not justified.

The refs on here, need to quite being so defensive and actually think about what people are saying. When someone complains about the ref, the immediate response is they don't know the game. Lots of us know the game and the rules. We know when we see bad reffing. Like pornography, you know what it is when you see it. ha ha

What I have seen so far this year:
An AR spending game time trying to look up the skirts of the co-eds sitting behind him.
A player getting picked up and thrown down in front of an AR and no call was made.
An AR not able to keep up with the speed of play so was consistently out of position. Led to some bad calls.
A player with a clear goal scoring opportunity, no one between player and goalie and player with ball gets tripped from behind. Foul was called and no card given.

I could go on and on. But you get the idea. The response isn't telling someone to become a ref and make it better. It's the people in charge, they need to make it better. Truly Listen to the coaches and others and work on making it better.

Here is an easy one, know which games are heated rivalries, and send an experienced and highly ranked ref to those games.

I have no doubt, that many of refs are truly trying to do the best they can, but there are some. oh my.
Excellent Satire

Well done Swift.
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  #59  
Old 09-15-18, 02:16 PM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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My responses are replies to the original post and poster, and anyone else who actually doesn't know the LOTG. Agreed, there are refs out there who are simply not good or under-qualified for the matches they are assigned to. It's understandable you want to criticize them. However, personal attacks on them are unnecessary (i.e., fat, donut in the pocket). So are arguments about calls or no calls where the arguer is not knowledgeable of the laws. Until there are more qualified officials for all games, you're going to continue to see the things you've been seeing. Hence, go to the classes and get out there yourself to do a better job.

Btw, what card should have been given in that goal scoring opportunity foul?

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  #60  
Old 09-16-18, 11:43 PM
shoprat2 shoprat2 is offline
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Saw an Europe’s game this weekend. Penalty kick everybody lined up,kicker shot made goal. Goal was waved off they had to wait for theref’s whistle to start. Shooter made re-try also
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