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  #31  
Old 12-18-18, 01:53 PM
cat_lover cat_lover is offline
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I watched the show and thought it was very well presented. I didn't know until watching the show that Neil Reed had passed away. Seemed like he had a hard time putting all this behind him and it affected his health. This to me was the saddest thing about the show he died way too soon.
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  #32  
Old 12-18-18, 03:25 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
In hindsight it was a really puzzling choice. Just on the mindset, Collier and Knight were a major mismatch. It's been a long time, but the portrait I remember of Collier is of a laid-back, fun loving personality. IU was not for him.

I find it to be very interesting that apparently neither flagged this as a major problem in the recruiting process. It kind of seems like Knight chose him because he was a high-end post recruit within a few hours of campus, and Collier chose IU because they were probably still the best program within a few hours of Springfield, Ohio at that time. Neither appear to have really thought beyond the surface about fit.

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There was a time when, if IU called, you listened no matter what. I'm not even sure how much hands on Knight had with recruiting. You'd think the assistant coach who recruited Collier would had seen the mismatch as well. Then again, sometimes kids don't know what they want or it changes every 10 minutes.
Not to be flippant, but I do feel if Collier would have buckled down at IU and applied himself, Knight would have got the best out of him. He did that with so many kids over his legendary career.
  #33  
Old 12-18-18, 03:40 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by cat_lover View Post
I watched the show and thought it was very well presented. I didn't know until watching the show that Neil Reed had passed away. Seemed like he had a hard time putting all this behind him and it affected his health. This to me was the saddest thing about the show he died way too soon.
I would think it would behoove the guy who went after Knight in this story to maybe look into Reed's past and wonder how a kid with some heart condition in high school was able to continue on. I wonder if he was supposed to be on some kind of heart medication or there was some other things going on. Guys just don't up and die of a massive heart attack at age 36.
And you are correct, it was sad to see him pass away, with a wife and two small girls. It seemed like he was at peace with his life too.
  #34  
Old 12-20-18, 10:46 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
There was a time when, if IU called, you listened no matter what. I'm not even sure how much hands on Knight had with recruiting. You'd think the assistant coach who recruited Collier would had seen the mismatch as well. Then again, sometimes kids don't know what they want or it changes every 10 minutes.
Not to be flippant, but I do feel if Collier would have buckled down at IU and applied himself, Knight would have got the best out of him. He did that with so many kids over his legendary career.
He ran off plenty of kids too. It’s not easy to buckle down when you’ve got an unchecked ego maniac barking threats at you every day. The real remarakable thing is that none of his players pulled a Spreewell. It would’ve been deserved.
  #35  
Old 12-21-18, 08:21 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
He ran off plenty of kids too. It’s not easy to buckle down when you’ve got an unchecked ego maniac barking threats at you every day. The real remarakable thing is that none of his players pulled a Spreewell. It would’ve been deserved.
That stragety had worked for Knight, so he stuck with it. And I do think he got a little more out of control as he got older. You wonder if the early success, in the long run was bad for him. I think he thought IU could continually be great year after year. As I said before, I think the 3 point line and shot clock took some control away from coaches and players just became more in control of their futures than coaches.
Many that went to IU in the 70's and 80's fully expected and knew what they were signing up for. Weather they listened to Knight our of fear or respect is a fine line, but I'll always say he did alot more good for countless numbers of his players than the few who went sideways.
  #36  
Old 12-21-18, 09:25 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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The 3 point line and shot clock took away control from players no a changing generation caused this. You see it across all sports where the three point line isnt a thing yes the 3 point line and shot clock gave players more control over their future we might even be able to pin this Kaepernick ordeal on the 3 pt line and shot clock

That is a bad take even for the lofty standards you have set
  #37  
Old 12-21-18, 09:43 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I think you misread that...he said that the introduction of the 3 point line and shot clock took some control away from the coaches and gave more freedom to the players. I'd have to agree with that.

I go to a lot of coaching clinics and I've heard a few coaches talk about how they've had to adjust their style to allow their guys to play with more pace and freedom due to the shot clock shortening a handful of seconds. Beilein's one of them. He's totally changed Michigan's offense to being more quick hitting with far more screening on the ball than he's ever used before.

Kids, and perhaps more importantly, parents, have changed a ton in the last 20 years or so. Izzo has parent-player meetings every year just like high school teams do, and a lot of other major programs do as well. Knight failed to really adjust to the differences in people and the game, and towards the end he really became even more of a firebrand than he was in his early days.

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  #38  
Old 12-21-18, 09:58 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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I think you misread it.


"As I said before, I think the 3 point line and shot clock took some control away from coaches and players just became more in control of their futures than coaches. "

More control of their futures?????

Come on i dont care how many clinics you have been to, thats a bad take if you think the 3 pt line and shot clock made kids have more control of their futures. He is essentially trying to say the shot clock and 3 pt line made players become aware of Knight's abuse towards players and caused them to have a "me first" mantra with no respect to coaching.

Maybe it changed their freedom on the court but it has little to no impact on players and their "futures". My whole point is society and the player had changed. You see it across all sports and it isnt bc of a 3 pt line or shot clock. Players just arent going to put up with that bc of societal changes, not rule changes
  #39  
Old 12-21-18, 10:10 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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To sum it up he is essentially trying to defend Knight and deflect why players started to not play for him, lash out, etc. It couldnt be his fault in 14red's eyes. Knight didnt adapt to a changing game but the biggest issue was not adapting to the MODERN athlete. The 3 pt line and shot clock were not the reasons for modern athletes realizing Knight abused his power and was a POS. The game has turned into "players programs", something Knight could never adjust to bc it was always about him and his abusive personality and actions.
  #40  
Old 12-21-18, 11:18 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
To sum it up he is essentially trying to defend Knight and deflect why players started to not play for him, lash out, etc. It couldnt be his fault in 14red's eyes. Knight didnt adapt to a changing game but the biggest issue was not adapting to the MODERN athlete. The 3 pt line and shot clock were not the reasons for modern athletes realizing Knight abused his power and was a POS. The game has turned into "players programs", something Knight could never adjust to bc it was always about him and his abusive personality and actions.
I wonder how Knight supporters would feel if it was their son he choked with no remorse.
  #41  
Old 12-21-18, 11:56 AM
jtk jtk is offline
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jtk has a little shameless behaviour in the past
didn't he even choke or hit his own kid or something?

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  #42  
Old 12-21-18, 01:17 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by jtk View Post
didn't he even choke or hit his own kid or something?

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IDK about that. I do remember he got into a screaming match with the TT AD at a salad bar.
  #43  
Old 12-22-18, 02:01 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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The worst part of the show was at the end when Knight said he wished his former bosses all would die. That is just sick yet ESPN still employs him.
  #44  
Old 12-23-18, 09:36 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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I worked with a man that played for him and got jacked up against a locker by him then went home and went on to a MAC school for a nice career with a championship.Not a nice man or a very good player,just a bully coach.
  #45  
Old 12-23-18, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
I worked with a man that played for him and got jacked up against a locker by him then went home and went on to a MAC school for a nice career with a championship.Not a nice man or a very good player,just a bully coach.
It’s one thing to not be “nice.” Nick Saban isn’t “nice”, but he’s not abusive towards his players. I really wish one of his players had just slugged him
  #46  
Old 12-23-18, 04:25 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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From wikipedia

1960 Olympic gold medalist Douglas Blubaugh was head wrestling coach at IU from 1973 to 1984. Early in his tenure while he jogged in the practice facility during basketball practice, Knight yelled at him to leave, using more than one expletive. Blubaugh pinned Knight to a wall, and told him never to repeat his performance. He never did.[53]


Funny how when someone calls him out on his BS he stands down like a puzzy.
  #47  
Old 12-26-18, 01:37 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
The 3 point line and shot clock took away control from players no a changing generation caused this. You see it across all sports where the three point line isnt a thing yes the 3 point line and shot clock gave players more control over their future we might even be able to pin this Kaepernick ordeal on the 3 pt line and shot clock

That is a bad take even for the lofty standards you have set
Not at all arrogate. Before the 3 point line and shot clock, coaches had much more control of games. You had a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go, you held the ball and made your free throws and you were gold.
Doesn't it seem a little unfair that you can dominate a game for 3/4 of it, the other team gets hot in the last few minutes and you lose? Yes, the fans like close games and the ability to win in the end, but the shot clock forces you to give up the ball. It completely takes away the skill of ball possession.

It's very difficult for you to look beyond the basics isn't it?
  #48  
Old 12-26-18, 01:42 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
To sum it up he is essentially trying to defend Knight and deflect why players started to not play for him, lash out, etc. It couldnt be his fault in 14red's eyes. Knight didnt adapt to a changing game but the biggest issue was not adapting to the MODERN athlete. The 3 pt line and shot clock were not the reasons for modern athletes realizing Knight abused his power and was a POS. The game has turned into "players programs", something Knight could never adjust to bc it was always about him and his abusive personality and actions.
Again, not understanding everything I say, just taking a part of it.

Yes, the changing times led to Knight's demise as much as anyone, and I mentioned that several times. But, Knight's best teams played in an era where there wasn't a shot clock or 3 point line. Knight's last championship team in '87 actually won with a shot clock that had been installed a few years earlier and the first year of the 3 point line. Fortunately, Knight had his hired gun in Alford.

Also, Knight's teams played as a TEAM, no individuals. Isn't it ironic that one of the best NBA teams of all time (Warriors) actually play a motion style offense where passing the ball and moving is rewarded.

Just take some time and read my posts and not just take a sentence or two and attack. It's alot easier that way.
  #49  
Old 12-26-18, 01:46 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
I wonder how Knight supporters would feel if it was their son he choked with no remorse.
You don't think any Knight supporters had sons who played for him??? Look back at the "legendary" coaches of the 50's and 60's, Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes...There was a level of acceptance with coaches being physical with players.
Of course there's a fine line to it and no coach should be able to continually physically or verbally abuse players. It's just today there is no tolerance for it at all. And can't you just say that there are some kids who need some discipline to reach their potential?? Coaches can't even raise their voices to some of today's darlings without mommy and daddy going to the AD or principal.
  #50  
Old 12-26-18, 01:48 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
I worked with a man that played for him and got jacked up against a locker by him then went home and went on to a MAC school for a nice career with a championship.Not a nice man or a very good player,just a bully coach.
Again, not everyone could play at IU when Knight was there. I'll always say he did a heck of alot more good there than bad. Not even close.
  #51  
Old 12-26-18, 02:08 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Again, not understanding everything I say, just taking a part of it.

Yes, the changing times led to Knight's demise as much as anyone, and I mentioned that several times. But, Knight's best teams played in an era where there wasn't a shot clock or 3 point line. Knight's last championship team in '87 actually won with a shot clock that had been installed a few years earlier and the first year of the 3 point line. Fortunately, Knight had his hired gun in Alford.

Also, Knight's teams played as a TEAM, no individuals. Isn't it ironic that one of the best NBA teams of all time (Warriors) actually play a motion style offense where passing the ball and moving is rewarded.

Just take some time and read my posts and not just take a sentence or two and attack. It's alot easier that way.
No you are just an idiot. You tried to argue to 3 point line and shot clock gave players freedom and more control of their futures. Doesn't get any worse than that. You root for a POS coach, no surprise.

Problem is we have all read way too many of your posts and you should probably do the world a favor
  #52  
Old 12-26-18, 02:19 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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I would seriously foot the bill and am sure others would donate to a GoFundMe to have you, and any off spring of yours fixed

The human race doesn't need any of this in our gene pool. This isn't a joke, you can PM me and I will send you the money and an appointment with the best doctor. We don't want to take any chances
  #53  
Old 12-27-18, 08:50 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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someone's getting a little steamed from an opinion based message board???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
I would seriously foot the bill and am sure others would donate to a GoFundMe to have you, and any off spring of yours fixed

The human race doesn't need any of this in our gene pool. This isn't a joke, you can PM me and I will send you the money and an appointment with the best doctor. We don't want to take any chances
  #54  
Old 12-27-18, 09:06 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
No you are just an idiot. You tried to argue to 3 point line and shot clock gave players freedom and more control of their futures. Doesn't get any worse than that. You root for a POS coach, no surprise.

Problem is we have all read way too many of your posts and you should probably do the world a favor
So wait a minute, you DON'T feel the addition of the 3 point line and shot clock helped players expand their games?? I have no idea what you are talking about.
Bob Knight isn't coaching anymore, and I've never "rooted" for a coach. I root for teams. Maybe you should just stay off the sports threads.
  #55  
Old 12-27-18, 09:07 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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I took exception to the part where you said it granted them more control of their futures.

What a moron.
  #56  
Old 12-27-18, 09:08 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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someone's getting a little steamed from an opinion based message board???
I'd call it giving back for the betterment of the human race. I need to make charitable donations before 2018 is over.
  #57  
Old 12-27-18, 10:46 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
I took exception to the part where you said it granted them more control of their futures.

What a moron.
IT DOES!!!!!

Go back to the old days. No shot clock, no 3 point line. A coach could hold the ball for 4 minutes before shooting. The score would be 15-13. Was that positive for the players?
  #58  
Old 12-27-18, 11:51 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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just too funny....

Apparently you also can't read
  #59  
Old 12-27-18, 12:11 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
just too funny....

Apparently you also can't read
I can't disagree with you there. I'm, as goofy as everyone else on here!

Onward...
  #60  
Old 12-27-18, 12:16 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
You don't think any Knight supporters had sons who played for him??? Look back at the "legendary" coaches of the 50's and 60's, Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes...There was a level of acceptance with coaches being physical with players.
Of course there's a fine line to it and no coach should be able to continually physically or verbally abuse players. It's just today there is no tolerance for it at all. And can't you just say that there are some kids who need some discipline to reach their potential?? Coaches can't even raise their voices to some of today's darlings without mommy and daddy going to the AD or principal.
Kids are too soft today, but that had nothing to do with choking a player.
 

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