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  #1  
Old 01-30-18, 06:28 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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Boys Track & Field Numbers

The National Federation of State High School Associations list Ohio with 787 boys track and field teams, but the OHSAA list Ohio with only 690 schools as having boys track & field.
http://runohio.com/index.php/feature...l-associations
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  #2  
Old 01-31-18, 09:41 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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shocker.
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  #3  
Old 02-01-18, 02:37 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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The National Federation is just as wrong as the OHSAA. By definition, one person does not make up a team. Two or more persons make up a team. This is beating a dead horse. Not a team of horses, but just a horse. It is just as pointless to point out what other states do as it is for the OHSAA to say 9 is the magic number to count as an official "team". I've played in a baseball game or two in my life where we had less than 9 players and beat a full team of 9, so does that mean a baseball team can be less than 9? I've played many sports where we had less than a full squad to end a game and still beat a full team.

In my opinion, you need four teammates to be a "team" in track and field. At the most fundamental level where two schools are going against each other competing in all the events the OHSAA sanctions in track and field, you have to have 4 individuals to win that contest. Don't care how great the athletes, 4 scrubs beat 3 great athletes. 4 great athletes can beat 34 really good athletes too. It also takes 4 athletes to make up a relay team, so there is another argument for 4 being the magic number. I believe you need 7 athletes to cover every event at an OHSAA meet, so I can see 7 being the magic number too. 9 is the number to make up a baseball team, but baseball is not track and field, so 9 means nothing.

I would never give a yes vote for 1 being the number it takes to be a track team even though I understand 1 person can win a championship. I'd vote for 2 being the number to count as a team simply because of the definition of team. 4 would be my magic number if I alone made the determination. I'd agree on 7 if I was on a committee and had to compromise on the official number. Anything over 7 would get a no vote from me.

So, 2,4 and 7 are logical to me and get yes votes for technical reasons.

1 and anything over 7 get hard no votes from me.

3,5 and 6 get a "those are stupid numbers to use, but they are more than one and less than 8 so ok I guess, but get me off this committee. This is idiotic."
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  #4  
Old 02-01-18, 07:14 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Agreed. 4 should be the number. You can fill out multiple relays and alot of the open events with 4 kids.
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  #5  
Old 02-01-18, 08:19 AM
long time coach long time coach is offline
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(Track is not like baseball or most other sports) I think if a school has one athlete and they score in the District Championships they must be a team since they have a team score in an OHSAA tournament!
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  #6  
Old 02-01-18, 08:46 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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^^^I agree that if one kid scores there is value in that because that one kid affects the other "teams".
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  #7  
Old 02-01-18, 09:55 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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I have heard that the OHSAA uses 9 because the ohter major spring sports (baseball/softball) have to have 9. Also, I have heard that they use 9 because there are 17 events and to cover half of them (8.5) you need 9 people. Of course this is bogus because of the 4-event rule. Although you can cover 12 events with 3 athletes doing 4 different events, I like the idea of being able to fill a relay. Also, you can not win a full dual-meet with 3 athletes winning 12 events (only nets you 60 points)...So 4 would be the number that SHOULD keep "all the ducks in a row" no matter what your logic might be.

Another problem is it could still come down to how many a coach allows to COMPETE AT THE DISTRICT MEET. I know of a couple teams that do not take kids to the district and does not have anyone in events that those kids competed in during the regular season, for a variety of reasons.
Once a school had a kid entered only in the 1600; He scratched in the bullpen, so the OHSAA could not count him as a member of his team.

Communicate to All Coaches to try to fill out all the events they can at the District Meets and to have the kids compete.

Last edited by ENA2; 02-02-18 at 08:13 AM..
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  #8  
Old 02-01-18, 12:00 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Whatever the number OHSAA says makes a team should be the minimum to receive a team score or a trophy. Under the current rules a school could be the state team champion but not even count towards the total number of teams in the state. Ludicrous.
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  #9  
Old 02-01-18, 09:18 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Just to be pedantic psycho_dad...

You can't have an entry in all 17 events with only 7 team members. You can get close (16 events), but you need an 8th body for the 17th.

Last edited by Altor; 02-01-18 at 09:43 PM.. Reason: Sorry ENA, I thought that was your rant about no more than 7
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  #10  
Old 02-02-18, 01:03 AM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Yeah, you need 8.
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  #11  
Old 02-02-18, 08:10 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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According to the OHSAA General Sports Regulations:
PAGE 84
"The minumum number of individuals required for a team designation* Follows:

Bowling - 5 Swimming - 7
Cross Country - 5 Tennis - 4
Golf - 4 Track & Field - 9
Gymnastics - 3 Wrestling - 7

*"the number for a team designation has been selected to reflect either the minimum number of participants needed to score in a contest OR the number needed to compete in at least half of the contest events"

Since some of these seem to be based on the number to compete in half of the events, TRACK & FIELD should have the number of 3 instead of the number 9.

I personally think 4 would be better because you need four for a relay "team" and you need four to be able to win a dual meet...but by their own regulations, the OHSAA should move the number to 3 for Track and Field.

Last edited by ENA2; 02-02-18 at 08:47 AM..
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  #12  
Old 02-02-18, 08:28 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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The OHSAA should go back over the past few years and see how many schools had 3 (or 4) kids participate at the District Meets and determine how many "TEAMS" there have been.... since they have been violating there own regulation. If there have been over 750 of these teams for 2 consectutive years, then they should go to 4 divisions...per their regulations.

PROBLEM: If the boys have been over 750 teams(probably) by using this format, and the girls have been less than 750 teams (possibly).... what do you do then?
Track, Cross Country Bowling and Swimning are the only sports to host Co-ed State Championships or tournaments.

Bowling and CC do not alternate events so the number of divisions could be different for each gender. Swimming and Track would be a little tougher.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-18, 09:24 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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they are not adding a division for boys and not girls in the same sport. Lawsuits galor
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  #14  
Old 02-02-18, 10:06 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
they are not adding a division for boys and not girls in the same sport. Lawsuits galor
They have done it before. For a number of years in the early 2000's in swimming the girls had two divisions while the boys only had one.

Swimming at 7 also is hard to understand just like 9 for T&F.

My thought if a team can score at districts then they should count as a team. If they want to have a number higher than 1 to be considered a team then those "individuals" should not score just like it works in CC.

I would also like to OHSAA have teams move on and compete for the team state championship and then the week after bring in the top 36 individuals regardless of size of school and compete for individual titles. I know this is not happening but would be great to see Johnson, Kreft and Horter racing each other a state title.
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  #15  
Old 02-02-18, 11:01 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
According to the OHSAA General Sports Regulations:
PAGE 84
"The minumum number of individuals required for a team designation* Follows:

Bowling - 5 Swimming - 7
Cross Country - 5 Tennis - 4
Golf - 4 Track & Field - 9
Gymnastics - 3 Wrestling - 7

*"the number for a team designation has been selected to reflect either the minimum number of participants needed to score in a contest OR the number needed to compete in at least half of the contest events"
I don't recall ever seeing the bolded sentence before. Now these numbers make more sense. The wording is poor, but it's pretty obvious what they mean.

T&F has 17 events...9 is 50%
Gymnastics has either 5 or 6 events...3 is 50%
Wrestling has 14 weight classes...7 is 50%
The odd one is Swimming/Diving. I believe there are 12 events in that sport, which makes 6 and not 7 equal to 50%.
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  #16  
Old 02-02-18, 12:42 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Withrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
Whatever the number OHSAA says makes a team should be the minimum to receive a team score or a trophy. Under the current rules a school could be the state team champion but not even count towards the total number of teams in the state. Ludicrous.
Withrow has won back -to-back D1 titles with only 8 girls running at district.
Don't get me wrong on paper they have 40+ girls but the head coaches will only run people at the district level if they feel they have a legit possibility to qualify to the state meet. If they cannot qualify their last meet is their league meet.
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  #17  
Old 02-02-18, 12:42 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
I don't recall ever seeing the bolded sentence before. Now these numbers make more sense. The wording is poor, but it's pretty obvious what they mean.

T&F has 17 events...9 is 50%
Gymnastics has either 5 or 6 events...3 is 50%
Wrestling has 14 weight classes...7 is 50%
The odd one is Swimming/Diving. I believe there are 12 events in that sport, which makes 6 and not 7 equal to 50%.
The elevated number for swimming might be due to the fact that individual swimmers are not allowed to compete in more than 2 relays.
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  #18  
Old 02-02-18, 01:10 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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For Track & Field "the number of participants needed to compete in at least half the number of the contest events" is Three (3). I would think that swimming would include relays and diving events which is 13 events so 7 does work for number of people, but not for number of events as most compete in more than 1 event and I don't think there are event limits except of relays. Swimming could also be covered with 3 athletes, However is takes 4 to make a relay so my "vote" would be for the number to be 4 for track & field and swimming as those two sports currently have relay TEAMs that may not becounted teams by the OHSAA if they do not have more kids.

There were some team who contested 10 or more events at the district meet that did not count as a team.
Example:
one kid did the shot and discus
one kid did the 100 and 200 and long jump
one kid did the the 110 and 300 hurdles and high jump
one kid did the 1600 and 800
and all four did the 4 x 400
four kids, did 11 events, scored some points (top half of the team standings) and most had fun. the squad had at least 5-6 others that did not compete so the Team did not count as a team according to the OHSAA.
NOTE: some did not want to "compete", some may have been injured, some may have started their vacation with parents, some the coach thought were not "ready" to compete at districts.

EuclidandViren's post about Withrow is true for several schools in Ohio.

Regardless, Coaches have to bring kids to the District Meet and allow them to contest an event (or 2...3 or 4)

Last edited by ENA2; 02-02-18 at 02:56 PM..
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  #19  
Old 02-02-18, 02:53 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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I would be difficult to have 4 divisions for boys and only 3 for girls. Not very difficult for cross country, bowling.
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  #20  
Old 02-02-18, 03:00 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
Withrow has won back -to-back D1 titles with only 8 girls running at district.
Don't get me wrong on paper they have 40+ girls but the head coaches will only run people at the district level if they feel they have a legit possibility to qualify to the state meet. If they cannot qualify their last meet is their league meet.
Which is why the arbitrary number of 9 is too high.
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  #21  
Old 02-02-18, 03:01 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
The elevated number for swimming might be due to the fact that individual swimmers are not allowed to compete in more than 2 relays.
You got this backwards they can only compete in 2 individual events and up to four total events. So a swimmer can either do 2 relays and 2 individual or 3 relays and 1 individual.

There is 12 events in swimming and diving.
8 individual swimming (Free -50,100,200,500, IM, Breast, Fly, Back)
1 diving event
3 relays (200 Medlay, 200 and 400 Free).

4 is on the only number greater than 1 that makes sense for both Track and Swimming.
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  #22  
Old 02-02-18, 06:05 PM
runohio runohio is offline
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Girls Track & Field Numbers

According to the National Federation of State High School Associations there were 789 Girls Track & Field teams in Ohio last year (at least one athlete). According to the OHSAA (nine athletes) there were 633 Girls Track & Field teams in Ohio.
http://runohio.com/index.php/feature...l-associations
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